D70 and Histogram

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by iraxlenb@gmail.com, Dec 5, 2005.

  1. Guest

    Hi All,

    Trying to learn the ropes on the new D70 I got...

    When I down load the images into Picasa (i shoot in jpeg), the
    histogram doesnt cover the full range for most of the photos, about
    1/4th of the range has no values, at one of the ends of the histogram.
    The photos look very dull and lifeless. If I do an auto-contrast, then
    the pictures look much better. Is there something I need to change in
    the settings on the camera for this? I tried resetting all values to
    default, and still see the same problem...

    TIA,
    irax.
     
    , Dec 5, 2005
    #1
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  2. Buy_Sell Guest

    Buy_Sell, Dec 5, 2005
    #2
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  3. Jeremy Nixon Guest

    <> wrote:

    > When I down load the images into Picasa (i shoot in jpeg), the
    > histogram doesnt cover the full range for most of the photos, about
    > 1/4th of the range has no values, at one of the ends of the histogram.
    > The photos look very dull and lifeless. If I do an auto-contrast, then
    > the pictures look much better.


    The histogram gives an indication of exposure. Which end is empty? It
    sounds like the right end, which would indicate that the shot is
    underexposed. The automatic exposure can be fooled; you just have to
    learn to compensate for it.

    --
    Jeremy |
     
    Jeremy Nixon, Dec 5, 2005
    #3
  4. Buy_Sell Guest

    Regarding the dull and lifeless photos, this link has a good
    explanation on how and why you should consider using custom tonal
    curves instead of just increasing the exposure compensation.

    http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/custom_tone_curves.html

    ------------------------------


    Hi All,
    Trying to learn the ropes on the new D70 I got...
    The photos look very dull and lifeless. If I do an auto-contrast, then
    the pictures look much better. Is there something I need to change in
    the settings on the camera for this? I tried resetting all values to
    default, and still see the same problem...
     
    Buy_Sell, Dec 5, 2005
    #4
  5. bmoag Guest

    Digital SLRs make for very heavy P&S cameras, which is all they are if you
    shoot in jpeg.
    I too find jpeg prcessing in my D70 to be very unsatisfactory.
    The D70 defaults to underexposure by design as there is greater room to pull
    up detail from underexposed areas than there is to recover detail from
    overexposed areas, in this digital images are comparable to slide film. The
    engineers who designed the D70 wisely assumed that those who want the best
    results from this camera will be making decisions about how the image will
    be processed, not an immutable jpeg in-camera algorithm.
    You can make adjustments to how the camera does its jpeg thing but I
    personally would not bother.
    In order to see what this remarkable camera is capable of, even in jpeg,
    you will have to learn a bit about image processing, histograms, etc.
    Why not take your photography to a whole new level, shoot in RAW mode, and
    learn how to manipulate the images to get what you want? A histogram
    normalized in RAW is a completely different experience than a histogram that
    has its ends chopped off in jpeg processing or by an auto-optimizing filter
    in a photo imaging program.
    You bought the camera, now learn how to use it properly.
     
    bmoag, Dec 5, 2005
    #5
  6. Iraxl Enb Guest


    > In order to see what this remarkable camera is capable of, even in jpeg,
    > you will have to learn a bit about image processing, histograms, etc.
    > Why not take your photography to a whole new level, shoot in RAW mode, and
    > learn how to manipulate the images to get what you want? A histogram
    > normalized in RAW is a completely different experience than a histogram that
    > has its ends chopped off in jpeg processing or by an auto-optimizing filter
    > in a photo imaging program.


    Okay, guess I will try out raw...

    > You bought the camera, now learn how to use it properly.


    Or I can just return it and get a rebel xt, which
    seemed to have better pictures off the camera, in jpeg...

    irax.
    (duck and run for cover before the d70-350d holy wars
    begin)
     
    Iraxl Enb, Dec 5, 2005
    #6
  7. Buy_Sell Guest

    A few days ago, I had the exact same feeling as you. I spent a fair
    bit of money on a camera that I just didn't understand. My Sony Mavica
    point and shoots were taking better pictures than the D70. Then I
    decided to investigate why so many people praise this camera, while I
    was having such a miserable time with it. bmoag is right about
    shooting raw but I haven't got that far with my new camera, yet. RAW
    is an interesting feature because you don't have to worry about your
    white balance, saturation, or anything. This can all be sorted out
    later in Photoshop.

    In the meantime, I have discovered how to make this camera a great
    point and shoot camera. Have a look at the following website and you
    will see the dramatic results that you are looking for. Then download
    the trial version of Nikon Capture to install a custom curve into your
    camera. The process is fast and painless. I can now honestly respect
    this camera when a few days ago, I was starting to think that I had got
    a lemon. The D70 can be custom programmed to give you the images that
    you would like to see come right out of the camera without any post
    processing.

    http://www.dahalan.com/html/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2&PHP

    http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/custom_tone_curves_3.html


    ------------------------------
    Iraxl Enb

    > In order to see what this remarkable camera is capable of, even in jpeg,
    > you will have to learn a bit about image processing, histograms, etc.
    > Why not take your photography to a whole new level, shoot in RAW mode, and
    > learn how to manipulate the images to get what you want? A histogram
    > normalized in RAW is a completely different experience than a histogram that
    > has its ends chopped off in jpeg processing or by an auto-optimizing filter
    > in a photo imaging program.


    Okay, guess I will try out raw...

    > You bought the camera, now learn how to use it properly.


    Or I can just return it and get a rebel xt, which
    seemed to have better pictures off the camera, in jpeg...
     
    Buy_Sell, Dec 5, 2005
    #7
  8. Iraxl Enb Guest

    Thanks for the pointer, I will try that out later today...

    Its a bummer that the Nikon Capture software is an
    extra with a camera that costs so much in the first place!

    irax.
     
    Iraxl Enb, Dec 5, 2005
    #8
  9. Tesco News Guest

    "Iraxl Enb" <> wrote in message
    news:dn1s1h$...
    >
    >> In order to see what this remarkable camera is capable of, even in jpeg,
    >> you will have to learn a bit about image processing, histograms, etc.
    >> Why not take your photography to a whole new level, shoot in RAW mode,
    >> and learn how to manipulate the images to get what you want? A histogram
    >> normalized in RAW is a completely different experience than a histogram
    >> that has its ends chopped off in jpeg processing or by an auto-optimizing
    >> filter in a photo imaging program.

    >
    > Okay, guess I will try out raw...
    >
    >> You bought the camera, now learn how to use it properly.

    >
    > Or I can just return it and get a rebel xt, which seemed to have better
    > pictures off the camera, in jpeg...
    >
    > irax.
    > (duck and run for cover before the d70-350d holy wars begin)


    Right.

    Do you think that B Moag, or me really care which Camera you use.

    The D70 is a very good camera, as is the 350XT.

    If you want to stick to JPEG, then you can vary the Settings in the D70 Menu
    to produce the bright, sharp and saturated Jpegs you want, just like those
    produced by the 350XT. Or you could even trade it in and buy a much cheaper
    P & S, which will give you those same sort of results.

    I do hope you don't mind, if I don't have my D70 set up like that. I prefer
    the quality of the 16 x 12 inch pictures I get.

    Roy G
     
    Tesco News, Dec 5, 2005
    #9
  10. On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:45:45 -0600, in rec.photo.digital Iraxl Enb
    <> wrote:

    >Thanks for the pointer, I will try that out later today...
    >
    >Its a bummer that the Nikon Capture software is an
    >extra with a camera that costs so much in the first place!


    If all you care about is being able to upload profiles, then there is a
    more inexpensive program written to do that for which info has been posted
    from time to time. Search the Google archive. Also, as far as raw
    processing goes you can download a free copy of Raw Shooter Essentials from
    the Pixmantec site at http://esd.element5.com/product.html?productid=545269
    It is Windoze only however.


    --
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
    http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
     
    Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!), Dec 5, 2005
    #10
  11. Buy_Sell Guest

    If you don't like the price of Nikon's Capture software, there is an
    alternative.

    http://www.oxfordeye.co.uk/Toneup.aspx

    PS: You can always do what I do with any 30 day Trial software.
    >> I set the date back on my computer. <<



    -------------------------------
    > Iraxl Enb
    > Its a bummer that the Nikon Capture software is an
    > extra with a camera that costs so much in the first place!
     
    Buy_Sell, Dec 6, 2005
    #11
  12. Monty X Guest

    A better way, set the date 10 years in the future, install the software,
    then roll the date back to the correct one, you now have ten years.

    MontyX


    "Buy_Sell" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > If you don't like the price of Nikon's Capture software, there is an
    > alternative.
    >
    > http://www.oxfordeye.co.uk/Toneup.aspx
    >
    > PS: You can always do what I do with any 30 day Trial software.
    > >> I set the date back on my computer. <<

    >
    >
    > -------------------------------
    >> Iraxl Enb
    >> Its a bummer that the Nikon Capture software is an
    >> extra with a camera that costs so much in the first place!

    >
     
    Monty X, Dec 6, 2005
    #12
  13. Iraxl Enb Guest

    Monty X wrote:
    > A better way, set the date 10 years in the future, install the software,
    > then roll the date back to the correct one, you now have ten years.
    >
    > MontyX
    >


    now that is just plain wicked :)

    irax.
     
    Iraxl Enb, Dec 6, 2005
    #13
  14. Iraxl Enb Guest

    I put in a custome tone curve with Nikon Capture, and
    now the images look much better. Shooting NEF just
    seems too much of a pain, is that what most people do?
    And the NEF doesnt seem to contain any exif info, is
    that added on by the software that generates the jpg?

    Thanks for the responses!

    irax.
     
    Iraxl Enb, Dec 6, 2005
    #14
  15. Frank ess Guest

    Iraxl Enb wrote:
    > I put in a custome tone curve with Nikon Capture, and
    > now the images look much better. Shooting NEF just
    > seems too much of a pain, is that what most people do?
    > And the NEF doesnt seem to contain any exif info, is
    > that added on by the software that generates the jpg?


    Way I heard it, there is a viewable JPEG embedded in the file along
    with NEF, and it makes the EXIF accessible.

    NEF may very well be enough of a pain to discourage its use for some;
    however, the advantages are significant and worth the hassle, for
    many.

    --
    Frank ess
    "There are some people it is our duty to annoy."
    -- Lord Reith
     
    Frank ess, Dec 6, 2005
    #15
  16. Paul Furman Guest

    Frank ess wrote:

    > Iraxl Enb wrote:
    >
    >> I put in a custome tone curve with Nikon Capture, and
    >> now the images look much better. Shooting NEF just
    >> seems too much of a pain, is that what most people do?
    >> And the NEF doesnt seem to contain any exif info, is
    >> that added on by the software that generates the jpg?

    >
    >
    > Way I heard it, there is a viewable JPEG embedded in the file along with
    > NEF, and it makes the EXIF accessible.


    Maybe you are thinking of Canon raw files. I know irfanview can read a
    jpeg in those quickly, not true for D70 NEF, perhaps the newer dx2, etc.
    but my D70 NEF files definitely have exif info in them and nothing
    bigger than maybe a 100 pixel thumbnail jpeg if even that.

    >
    > NEF may very well be enough of a pain to discourage its use for some;
    > however, the advantages are significant and worth the hassle, for many.


    I find it worth the hassle. If adjustments need to be made they are much
    better done on raw than jpeg.

    --
    Paul Furman
    http://www.edgehill.net/1
    Bay Natives
    http://www.baynatives.com
     
    Paul Furman, Dec 6, 2005
    #16
  17. Guest

    In message <>,
    "Buy_Sell" <> wrote:

    > You can always do what I do with any 30 day Trial software.


    I find these timed trials to be very annoying. They usually assume that
    their software is the very reason you have your computer, and that
    you're going to use it day and night before it expires. In reality, I
    wind up installing a program, look at it for five minutes, go to sleep,
    remember I installed it a few weeks later, launch it again, and it says,
    "your 30-day trial has ended".
    --

    <>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
    John P Sheehy <>
    ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
     
    , Dec 6, 2005
    #17
  18. On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 06:40:24 -0600, in rec.photo.digital Iraxl Enb
    <> wrote:

    >Monty X wrote:
    >> A better way, set the date 10 years in the future, install the software,
    >> then roll the date back to the correct one, you now have ten years.


    >now that is just plain wicked :)

    Bootleg versions of SNs are on warez site all around for near the current
    versions.
    --
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
    http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
     
    Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!), Dec 6, 2005
    #18
  19. Ed Ruf Guest

    On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:42:29 -0800, in rec.photo.digital "Frank ess"
    <> wrote:

    >Iraxl Enb wrote:
    >> I put in a custome tone curve with Nikon Capture, and
    >> now the images look much better. Shooting NEF just
    >> seems too much of a pain, is that what most people do?
    >> And the NEF doesnt seem to contain any exif info, is
    >> that added on by the software that generates the jpg?

    >
    >Way I heard it, there is a viewable JPEG embedded in the file along
    >with NEF, and it makes the EXIF accessible.


    Not quite Frank. There is a small thumbnail, 160x120 for my D70
    embedded in the NEF. Also the D70 has the ability to shoot RAW+JPEG,
    saving both the NEF and a high resolution BASIC (lowest) quality jpeg
    separately as well.
    ________________________________________________________
    Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 ()
    See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
    http://EdwardGRuf.com
     
    Ed Ruf, Dec 7, 2005
    #19
  20. In rec.photo.digital.slr-systems Ed Ruf <> wrote:
    > Not quite Frank. There is a small thumbnail, 160x120 for my D70
    > embedded in the NEF. Also the D70 has the ability to shoot RAW+JPEG,
    > saving both the NEF and a high resolution BASIC (lowest) quality jpeg
    > separately as well.


    Not quite. At least on the D70, NEFs contain both a thumbnail and a
    Basic JPEG. You can opt to save the JPEG separetely, but the JPEG is
    still embedded in the NEF.

    - Solomon
    --
    Solomon Peachy ICQ: 1318344
    Melbourne, FL
    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
     
    Stuffed Crust, Dec 7, 2005
    #20
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