D2X (12.4 MP) CMOS sensor is made by Sony, per dpreview / Galbraith

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Alan Browne, Sep 17, 2004.

  1. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Alan Browne, Sep 17, 2004
    #1
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  2. Alan Browne

    ThomasH Guest

    Alan Browne wrote:
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0409/04091701nikond2xsony.asp
    >
    > Great implications for everyone including us Minola users (if not
    > exclusive to Nikon).


    I was very curious who makes the sensor for them! Sony is
    somewhat a strange source though, because Sony went into the
    digital camera business and gained a respectable market share.
    In a sense, Nikon relies on parts provided by a competitor,
    unless Sony has a stake in Nikon Corp. and they will not
    compete in some class of the cameras. It is so difficult to
    see through the mesh of ownership relationships in large
    corporations...


    I noted a positive tendency in lowering the max. ISO rating
    to more reasonable values, speak: to levels at which the
    results are usable. See both D2X and the Coolpix 8800,
    they have both "less ISO's" than the previous models :)

    Probably the beating which the 8Mpix EVF cameras took on the
    issue, incl. the Sony 828, show effect. Why to provide an ISO
    mode, which is so fatal in terms of noise that the press and
    the users call it "useless" anyway? I have the Lumix FZ10,
    I love the Leica Elmarit f/2.8, which comes with the package,
    but I cannot use "Auto" sensitivity at all, because in this
    mode the camera could go into 400ISO and the result is abysmal.

    "less is more" in this case!

    Thomas


    >
    > Cheers,
    > Alan
    >
    > --
    > -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    > -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    > -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
     
    ThomasH, Sep 17, 2004
    #2
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  3. Alan Browne

    leo Guest

    "ThomasH" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Alan Browne wrote:
    >>
    >> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0409/04091701nikond2xsony.asp
    >>
    >> Great implications for everyone including us Minola users (if not
    >> exclusive to Nikon).

    >
    > I was very curious who makes the sensor for them! Sony is
    > somewhat a strange source though, because Sony went into the
    > digital camera business and gained a respectable market share.
    > In a sense, Nikon relies on parts provided by a competitor,
    > unless Sony has a stake in Nikon Corp. and they will not
    > compete in some class of the cameras. It is so difficult to
    > see through the mesh of ownership relationships in large
    > corporations...
    >
    >
    > I noted a positive tendency in lowering the max. ISO rating
    > to more reasonable values, speak: to levels at which the
    > results are usable. See both D2X and the Coolpix 8800,
    > they have both "less ISO's" than the previous models :)
    >
    > Probably the beating which the 8Mpix EVF cameras took on the
    > issue, incl. the Sony 828, show effect. Why to provide an ISO
    > mode, which is so fatal in terms of noise that the press and
    > the users call it "useless" anyway? I have the Lumix FZ10,
    > I love the Leica Elmarit f/2.8, which comes with the package,
    > but I cannot use "Auto" sensitivity at all, because in this
    > mode the camera could go into 400ISO and the result is abysmal.
    >
    > "less is more" in this case!
    >
    > Thomas
    >
    >
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >> Alan
    >>
    >> --
    >> -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    >> -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    >> -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--



    Okay. This explained how Nikon could go 4MP in D2H (sensor made by Nikon) to
    this 12MP beast!! BTW, Sony's not in SLR business, there's no conflict of
    interests yet.
     
    leo, Sep 18, 2004
    #3
  4. ThomasH <> writes:

    > Alan Browne wrote:
    > >
    > > http://www.dpreview.com/news/0409/04091701nikond2xsony.asp
    > >
    > > Great implications for everyone including us Minola users (if not
    > > exclusive to Nikon).

    >
    > I was very curious who makes the sensor for them! Sony is
    > somewhat a strange source though, because Sony went into the
    > digital camera business and gained a respectable market share.
    > In a sense, Nikon relies on parts provided by a competitor,
    > unless Sony has a stake in Nikon Corp. and they will not
    > compete in some class of the cameras. It is so difficult to
    > see through the mesh of ownership relationships in large
    > corporations...


    Sony makes the sensor for many cameras, including Minola, Pentex and Nikon
    SLRs, and made the sensor in most of the popular 5 MP cameras. I don't recall
    if they make the 8MP sensor as well for the current prosumers.

    --
    Michael Meissner
    email:
    http://www.the-meissners.org
     
    Michael Meissner, Sep 18, 2004
    #4
  5. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    ThomasH wrote:

    > Alan Browne wrote:
    >
    >>http://www.dpreview.com/news/0409/04091701nikond2xsony.asp
    >>
    >>Great implications for everyone including us Minola users (if not
    >>exclusive to Nikon).

    >
    >
    > I was very curious who makes the sensor for them! Sony is
    > somewhat a strange source though, because Sony went into the
    > digital camera business and gained a respectable market share.
    > In a sense, Nikon relies on parts provided by a competitor,
    > unless Sony has a stake in Nikon Corp. and they will not
    > compete in some class of the cameras. It is so difficult to
    > see through the mesh of ownership relationships in large
    > corporations...


    Well economics comes in too ... design and fab of chips is quite
    costly ... spreading that cost, even amongst competitors is not
    always a bad thing (eg: Airbus, Boeing, former McD-D etc. all buy
    their engines (per airline choice) from R-R, GE, P&W, CFM ...
    same with avionics and other key parts.) Camera makers used to
    MAKE their cameras, now they largely outsource a large part of
    the work... (either outsourcing or commodity integration). Like
    much of the electronics industry the camera makers have become
    system integrators.

    >
    >
    > I noted a positive tendency in lowering the max. ISO rating
    > to more reasonable values, speak: to levels at which the
    > results are usable. See both D2X and the Coolpix 8800,
    > they have both "less ISO's" than the previous models :)


    Yeah, the low top ISO on the D2X is surprising ... I guess
    tripods will remain a key photographic tool. (Also see several
    recent threads questioning some digital sensors compliance to
    sensitivity levels.)

    > Probably the beating which the 8Mpix EVF cameras took on the
    > issue, incl. the Sony 828, show effect. Why to provide an ISO
    > mode, which is so fatal in terms of noise that the press and
    > the users call it "useless" anyway? I have the Lumix FZ10,


    I believe people are being silly. They get nice clean ISO 200
    shots and then have an expectation of the same clean image at
    1600 or 3200? There ARE uses for high speed, low light images
    and people should embrace it even if it is noisy ... it's
    certainly cleaner than film at high ISO.

    > I love the Leica Elmarit f/2.8, which comes with the package,
    > but I cannot use "Auto" sensitivity at all, because in this
    > mode the camera could go into 400ISO and the result is abysmal.
    >
    > "less is more" in this case!


    Manual exposure mode is more (or at least A or S pri).

    Cheers,
    Alan


    --
    -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
     
    Alan Browne, Sep 18, 2004
    #5
  6. Alan Browne

    Anonymous Guest

    Japanese corporations? Cozy business relationships? Conflict of interest
    doesn't exist in Japanese business ethics books...


    "ThomasH" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > It is so difficult to
    > see through the mesh of ownership relationships in large
    > corporations...
     
    Anonymous, Sep 20, 2004
    #6
  7. "Anonymous" <> wrote in message
    news:MHr3d.31417$aW5.27375@fed1read07...
    > Japanese corporations? Cozy business relationships? Conflict of interest
    > doesn't exist in Japanese business ethics books...
    >

    How is this conflict of interest? Sony sell CCDs to Nikon, Pentax and
    Minolta. It's more open than the USA model, otherwise there would be no need
    for USA anti-trust laws.
     
    Darrell Larose, Sep 20, 2004
    #7
  8. Alan Browne

    Böwzér Guest

    "Darrell Larose" <> wrote in message
    news:WOr3d.89841$...
    > "Anonymous" <> wrote in message
    > news:MHr3d.31417$aW5.27375@fed1read07...
    >> Japanese corporations? Cozy business relationships? Conflict of
    >> interest
    >> doesn't exist in Japanese business ethics books...
    >>

    > How is this conflict of interest? Sony sell CCDs to Nikon, Pentax and
    > Minolta. It's more open than the USA model, otherwise there would be no
    > need
    > for USA anti-trust laws.


    But we don't know for a fact what the relationship is between Sony and
    Nikon. Nikon, a company that is short on production capacity mayhave
    contracted Sony so fab a chip of their design. It may also be a
    Sony-designed and built chip. Lots of possibilities.

    >
    >
    >
     
    Böwzér, Sep 20, 2004
    #8
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