D(..uhhh - H)ell

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Me, Mar 6, 2010.

  1. Me

    Me Guest

    My (15 month old) Dell monitor developed a problem - intermittent line
    of dead blue pixels resulting in a yellow vertical line across the
    screen. http://i46.tinypic.com/vigwlk.jpg
    So I call Dell about 12am yesterday. No problems, we'll send a
    replacement, they call back to say it won't be later than Monday pm.
    It arrived this morning (Sat 10am) - less than 24 hours.
    Now that part impressed me - truly fantastic service.

    Replacement monitor is a "refurb", but looks fine/unused clean
    condition, recent production date stamp. Hmmmm...
    So I plug it in and at first it's okay, and after 1/2 hour, the darned
    thing is consistently flickering badly (whole screen quickly dimming)
    about every 4 seconds or so.
    They've replaced my dud monitor with one that's even dudder. (yeah -
    I've checked by swapping between VGA/DVI connections and on 2 PCs for
    both monitor problems - but I'm not paid to be Dell's QC checker).
    I'm starting to get a bad feeling about how this is going to turn out.
    Me, Mar 6, 2010
    #1
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  2. Me

    Gordon Guest

    On 2010-03-06, Me <> wrote:
    > My (15 month old) Dell monitor developed a problem - intermittent line
    > of dead blue pixels resulting in a yellow vertical line across the
    > screen. http://i46.tinypic.com/vigwlk.jpg
    > So I call Dell about 12am yesterday. No problems, we'll send a
    > replacement, they call back to say it won't be later than Monday pm.
    > It arrived this morning (Sat 10am) - less than 24 hours.
    > Now that part impressed me - truly fantastic service.
    >
    > Replacement monitor is a "refurb", but looks fine/unused clean
    > condition, recent production date stamp. Hmmmm...
    > So I plug it in and at first it's okay, and after 1/2 hour, the darned
    > thing is consistently flickering badly (whole screen quickly dimming)
    > about every 4 seconds or so.
    > They've replaced my dud monitor with one that's even dudder. (yeah -
    > I've checked by swapping between VGA/DVI connections and on 2 PCs for
    > both monitor problems - but I'm not paid to be Dell's QC checker).
    > I'm starting to get a bad feeling about how this is going to turn out.


    Go on, keep us informed. Dell is in the witness box, can they deliver?
    Gordon, Mar 6, 2010
    #2
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  3. In article <>,
    says...
    >
    > > So I call Dell about 12am yesterday. No problems, we'll send a
    > > replacement, they call back to say it won't be later than Monday pm.
    > > It arrived this morning (Sat 10am) - less than 24 hours.
    > > Now that part impressed me - truly fantastic service.
    > >
    > > Replacement monitor is a "refurb", but looks fine/unused clean
    > > condition, recent production date stamp. Hmmmm...
    > > So I plug it in and at first it's okay, and after 1/2 hour, the darned
    > > thing is consistently flickering badly (whole screen quickly dimming)
    > > about every 4 seconds or so.
    > > They've replaced my dud monitor with one that's even dudder. (yeah -
    > > I've checked by swapping between VGA/DVI connections and on 2 PCs for
    > > both monitor problems - but I'm not paid to be Dell's QC checker).
    > > I'm starting to get a bad feeling about how this is going to turn out.

    >
    > Go on, keep us informed. Dell is in the witness box, can they deliver?



    Mpf. I bought a 30" Dell monitor a while back. Was quite keen on it
    since it was about the only monitor that size available in NZ that had a
    scaling chip built in. (it still may be the only one, for all I know;
    neither Samsung nor HP do). IIRC, it was a few hundred Dollars cheaper,
    too, but I'm not sure on that point.

    Alas, it arrived uncalibrated. The garish (wide gamut?) colours were
    horrid. Eye cancer red some guy called it; similar for the greens. BUT,
    when I tuned them down so that it was suitable for desktop use, then
    video rendition was like faded watercolour, barely hinted at colour,
    damn near b&w. Impossible to find a balance between the two. Very
    disappointing. Then, to top it all off, it developed a creeping green
    tint along the top edge and particularly in one corner. RMA time.
    (Incidentally, I should point out that the scaling chip proved to be
    excellent, much better than my 'high-end' video card can manage).

    I sent the monitor back, and I didn't want a replacement. They refunded
    my money without giving me any grief over it, no diversionary tactics or
    trying to turn money into credit or such like, so I can't really
    complain, except for the agony spending hours on the phone to various
    people in India and the Phillipines, trying to understand them, and
    trying to get understood. And of course they all had to do things by
    their flowcharts, so I got handed from one to another, repeatedly ...
    explain again and again. In the end it boiled down to some chap in Oz
    trying to find a courier that would come out to pick up the monitor
    here, 80km from the nearest depot, and that's not an easy chore (NO
    courier comes out here). Took weeks.

    I decided that, while they behaved quite correctly, and tried their best
    to be helpful and were extremely polite, that the frustration of dealing
    with their 'corporate machinery' just wasn't worth any savings, or the
    scaling chip. Well, and the quality of the product, obviously.

    The HP I bought instead was wonderfully calibrated out of the box, and I
    have no difficulty to get a colour/contrast/saturation balance that
    works for desktop use as well as watching DVDs. So it goes. I'm afraid
    Dell won't get my business again until they open a shop just down the
    road. ;-)

    -P.
    Peter Huebner, Mar 6, 2010
    #3
  4. On 6 Mar 2010 06:38:29 GMT, Gordon <> wrote:

    >On 2010-03-06, Me <> wrote:
    >> My (15 month old) Dell monitor developed a problem - intermittent line
    >> of dead blue pixels resulting in a yellow vertical line across the
    >> screen. http://i46.tinypic.com/vigwlk.jpg
    >> So I call Dell about 12am yesterday. No problems, we'll send a
    >> replacement, they call back to say it won't be later than Monday pm.
    >> It arrived this morning (Sat 10am) - less than 24 hours.
    >> Now that part impressed me - truly fantastic service.
    >>
    >> Replacement monitor is a "refurb", but looks fine/unused clean
    >> condition, recent production date stamp. Hmmmm...
    >> So I plug it in and at first it's okay, and after 1/2 hour, the darned
    >> thing is consistently flickering badly (whole screen quickly dimming)
    >> about every 4 seconds or so.
    >> They've replaced my dud monitor with one that's even dudder. (yeah -
    >> I've checked by swapping between VGA/DVI connections and on 2 PCs for
    >> both monitor problems - but I'm not paid to be Dell's QC checker).
    >> I'm starting to get a bad feeling about how this is going to turn out.

    >
    >Go on, keep us informed. Dell is in the witness box, can they deliver?


    I had a very similar experience. The second replacement monitor has
    been fine. So I am guessing that they have a history of sending out
    monitors that their techs have marked up as "no fault found" due to
    intermittent or time dependent faults, and letting the customers
    confirm the fault is actually there.

    Fortunately, our courts have already well informed Dell as to their
    CGA responsibilities.
    Stephen Worthington, Mar 6, 2010
    #4
  5. Me

    Me Guest

    Stephen Worthington wrote:
    > On 6 Mar 2010 06:38:29 GMT, Gordon <> wrote:
    >
    > So I am guessing that they have a history of sending out
    > monitors that their techs have marked up as "no fault found" due to
    > intermittent or time dependent faults, and letting the customers
    > confirm the fault is actually there.
    >

    I guess the same. That would seem to imply that perhaps they don't pass
    on to their techs the customer's description of the fault.
    > Fortunately, our courts have already well informed Dell as to their
    > CGA responsibilities.
    >

    Their NZ registered office is c/o Simpson Grierson (lawyers). There are
    4 directors, domiciled in Sydney, Singapore (2) and Texas. For
    small-claims, who turns up?
    Me, Mar 6, 2010
    #5
  6. Me

    Me Guest

    Peter Huebner wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >>> So I call Dell about 12am yesterday. No problems, we'll send a
    >>> replacement, they call back to say it won't be later than Monday pm.
    >>> It arrived this morning (Sat 10am) - less than 24 hours.
    >>> Now that part impressed me - truly fantastic service.
    >>>
    >>> Replacement monitor is a "refurb", but looks fine/unused clean
    >>> condition, recent production date stamp. Hmmmm...
    >>> So I plug it in and at first it's okay, and after 1/2 hour, the darned
    >>> thing is consistently flickering badly (whole screen quickly dimming)
    >>> about every 4 seconds or so.
    >>> They've replaced my dud monitor with one that's even dudder. (yeah -
    >>> I've checked by swapping between VGA/DVI connections and on 2 PCs for
    >>> both monitor problems - but I'm not paid to be Dell's QC checker).
    >>> I'm starting to get a bad feeling about how this is going to turn out.

    >> Go on, keep us informed. Dell is in the witness box, can they deliver?

    >
    >
    > Mpf. I bought a 30" Dell monitor a while back. Was quite keen on it
    > since it was about the only monitor that size available in NZ that had a
    > scaling chip built in. (it still may be the only one, for all I know;
    > neither Samsung nor HP do). IIRC, it was a few hundred Dollars cheaper,
    > too, but I'm not sure on that point.
    >
    > Alas, it arrived uncalibrated. The garish (wide gamut?) colours were
    > horrid. Eye cancer red some guy called it; similar for the greens. BUT,
    > when I tuned them down so that it was suitable for desktop use, then
    > video rendition was like faded watercolour, barely hinted at colour,
    > damn near b&w. Impossible to find a balance between the two. Very
    > disappointing. Then, to top it all off, it developed a creeping green
    > tint along the top edge and particularly in one corner. RMA time.
    > (Incidentally, I should point out that the scaling chip proved to be
    > excellent, much better than my 'high-end' video card can manage).
    >
    > I sent the monitor back, and I didn't want a replacement. They refunded
    > my money without giving me any grief over it, no diversionary tactics or
    > trying to turn money into credit or such like, so I can't really
    > complain, except for the agony spending hours on the phone to various
    > people in India and the Phillipines, trying to understand them, and
    > trying to get understood. And of course they all had to do things by
    > their flowcharts, so I got handed from one to another, repeatedly ...
    > explain again and again. In the end it boiled down to some chap in Oz
    > trying to find a courier that would come out to pick up the monitor
    > here, 80km from the nearest depot, and that's not an easy chore (NO
    > courier comes out here). Took weeks.
    >
    > I decided that, while they behaved quite correctly, and tried their best
    > to be helpful and were extremely polite, that the frustration of dealing
    > with their 'corporate machinery' just wasn't worth any savings, or the
    > scaling chip. Well, and the quality of the product, obviously.
    >
    > The HP I bought instead was wonderfully calibrated out of the box, and I
    > have no difficulty to get a colour/contrast/saturation balance that
    > works for desktop use as well as watching DVDs. So it goes. I'm afraid
    > Dell won't get my business again until they open a shop just down the
    > road. ;-)
    >

    "Wide Gamut" is an feature oversold as if it's a can full of caviar
    instead of worms.

    The monitor I'm having trouble with is a 22". I have access to a 22" HP
    (LP 2275W?), but I prefer the Dell, because it's IPS rather than sPVA
    panel (both viewing angles and black levels are better), sRGB rather
    than wide-gamut, and although not well calibrated "out of the box", is
    easy to calibrate.
    Me, Mar 6, 2010
    #6
  7. On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 08:36:43 +1300, Me <> wrote:

    >Stephen Worthington wrote:
    >> On 6 Mar 2010 06:38:29 GMT, Gordon <> wrote:
    >>
    >> So I am guessing that they have a history of sending out
    >> monitors that their techs have marked up as "no fault found" due to
    >> intermittent or time dependent faults, and letting the customers
    >> confirm the fault is actually there.
    >>

    >I guess the same. That would seem to imply that perhaps they don't pass
    >on to their techs the customer's description of the fault.


    No, I think that the techs simply have a lot of monitors where they
    have been unable to provoke the fault. So they mark them as "no fault
    found" and having passed their testing regime, they are put in stock
    to be sent out again. With predictable results. In my case, the
    fault on my first replacement monitor was occurring within 10 minutes
    of it being turned on, which suggests that the techs are simply
    incompetent. Of maybe just lazy.

    >> Fortunately, our courts have already well informed Dell as to their
    >> CGA responsibilities.
    > >

    >Their NZ registered office is c/o Simpson Grierson (lawyers). There are
    >4 directors, domiciled in Sydney, Singapore (2) and Texas. For
    >small-claims, who turns up?


    I understand that no-one did, on the first occasion they were taken to
    the Disputes Tribunal. They were comprehensively ruled against, of
    course. So they asked for a re-hearing, and were comprehensively
    ruled against, again. Now, apparently they have a designated NZ
    manager who turns up.
    Stephen Worthington, Mar 7, 2010
    #7
  8. Me

    EMB Guest

    On 7/03/2010 5:37 p.m., Stephen Worthington wrote:
    >
    > I understand that no-one did, on the first occasion they were taken to
    > the Disputes Tribunal. They were comprehensively ruled against, of
    > course. So they asked for a re-hearing, and were comprehensively
    > ruled against, again. Now, apparently they have a designated NZ
    > manager who turns up.


    We bought 19 new Dell servers last week - so far 2 are dead within 24
    hours of power on, with 5 yet to be unboxed. I'm going to try and
    convince the management that we return the whole bloody lot and buy HP
    or IBM gear.
    EMB, Mar 7, 2010
    #8
  9. Me

    Me Guest

    Stephen Worthington wrote:
    > On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 08:36:43 +1300, Me <> wrote:
    >
    >> Stephen Worthington wrote:
    >>> On 6 Mar 2010 06:38:29 GMT, Gordon <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> So I am guessing that they have a history of sending out
    >>> monitors that their techs have marked up as "no fault found" due to
    >>> intermittent or time dependent faults, and letting the customers
    >>> confirm the fault is actually there.
    >>>

    >> I guess the same. That would seem to imply that perhaps they don't pass
    >> on to their techs the customer's description of the fault.

    >
    > No, I think that the techs simply have a lot of monitors where they
    > have been unable to provoke the fault. So they mark them as "no fault
    > found" and having passed their testing regime, they are put in stock
    > to be sent out again. With predictable results. In my case, the
    > fault on my first replacement monitor was occurring within 10 minutes
    > of it being turned on, which suggests that the techs are simply
    > incompetent. Of maybe just lazy.
    >
    >>> Fortunately, our courts have already well informed Dell as to their
    >>> CGA responsibilities.
    >>>

    >> Their NZ registered office is c/o Simpson Grierson (lawyers). There are
    >> 4 directors, domiciled in Sydney, Singapore (2) and Texas. For
    >> small-claims, who turns up?

    >
    > I understand that no-one did, on the first occasion they were taken to
    > the Disputes Tribunal. They were comprehensively ruled against, of
    > course. So they asked for a re-hearing, and were comprehensively
    > ruled against, again. Now, apparently they have a designated NZ
    > manager who turns up.
    >

    Dell asked me to return my original monitor to them, and hold on to the
    first replacement. I got them to agree taking the replacement back as
    at least it's quite usable - but the flickering screen on the
    replacement was very annoying.
    On the phone their tech service rep asked me to unpack the monitor that
    I'd already packed up again, so that I could get the serial # off the
    back. I did this, then repacked it again - the same serial number was
    clearly marked on the outside of the carton anyway - and I seriously
    doubt that they'd have sent out the replacement without a record of that.
    I have a service code reference #, but neither their phone system nor
    web system recognise it. But their people in Manila can look up all my
    details via that number. Three times so far they've asked me to go
    through all the details they already have for me, and each time they've
    said that the cellphone # they have on record is my old number, but it
    seems that they don't change the record. They also ask for the original
    invoice number, even though they bring it up using the service reference #.
    In 3-5 days, replacement #2 arrives...
    Me, Mar 7, 2010
    #9
  10. Me

    Me Guest

    Final report (I hope). The second replacement arrived, and seems
    perfect. Dell phoned me twice since Monday, including on my correct
    cellphone number, to conform delivery time etc. So in the end their
    level of service was excellent, even if their process seems a bit baffling.
    Me, Mar 10, 2010
    #10
  11. Me

    Me Guest

    On 10/03/2010 5:00 p.m., Me wrote:
    >
    > Final report (I hope). The second replacement arrived, and seems
    > perfect. Dell phoned me twice since Monday, including on my correct
    > cellphone number, to confirm delivery time etc. So in the end their
    > level of service was excellent, even if their process seems a bit baffling.


    Update for the record...
    Second replacement developed a fault - an intermittent "dead screen"
    when first connected/powered on, or on resume from sleep...
    I had to moan and bitch a bit - they got me to connect it to different
    PCs, eventually it worked, as tends to be the case with intermittent
    faults, but it would have crapped out again - when I asked if they'd
    heard of the Consumer Guarantees Act they confirmed they had, and
    promptly said that a replacement would be despatched same day.
    So replacement #3 arrived.
    I check it out, surprised to see the RGB levels etc set as per my
    original monitor... Hmmm - check serial # and it /is/ my original
    monitor. Now that had an intermittent fault with a dead line of pixels.
    Probably fixable - a loose/dirty connector perhaps - I hope they did
    fix it. So far it's working fine. If the dead line of pixels
    reappears, then I'm giving up and asking for my money back.
    Me, Apr 12, 2010
    #11
  12. Me

    Me Guest

    Monitor problem resolved

    On 12/04/2010 1:48 p.m., Me wrote:
    > On 10/03/2010 5:00 p.m., Me wrote:
    >>
    >> Final report (I hope). The second replacement arrived, and seems
    >> perfect. Dell phoned me twice since Monday, including on my correct
    >> cellphone number, to confirm delivery time etc. So in the end their
    >> level of service was excellent, even if their process seems a bit
    >> baffling.

    >
    > Update for the record...
    > Second replacement developed a fault - an intermittent "dead screen"
    > when first connected/powered on, or on resume from sleep...
    > I had to moan and bitch a bit - they got me to connect it to different
    > PCs, eventually it worked, as tends to be the case with intermittent
    > faults, but it would have crapped out again - when I asked if they'd
    > heard of the Consumer Guarantees Act they confirmed they had, and
    > promptly said that a replacement would be despatched same day.
    > So replacement #3 arrived.
    > I check it out, surprised to see the RGB levels etc set as per my
    > original monitor... Hmmm - check serial # and it /is/ my original
    > monitor. Now that had an intermittent fault with a dead line of pixels.
    > Probably fixable - a loose/dirty connector perhaps - I hope they did fix
    > it. So far it's working fine. If the dead line of pixels reappears, then
    > I'm giving up and asking for my money back.


    Final update on this - I hope.
    My original monitor sent back to me as a "refurb" had not been fixed at
    all. Switched it on the next day, and there was the dead line of pixels.
    So, sent an email to registered office of Dell Computer NZ Ltd, reply
    and phone message from Dell "customer escalation manager" within the hour.
    I posted a summary of this on DPReview, which according to them has
    around 7 million visits per month. Dell had read my post and AFAIK do
    not dispute my version of events in any way.
    I got a promise from them to replace with a new monitor (not "refurb")
    which arrived the following morning, and appears to be perfect.
    Dell commented that my experience was totally unacceptable, indicative
    of a serious procedural problem that they would work to fix.
    When I started this thread, I had received only one faulty replacement.
    In the end I'd had three.
    Yes - the consumer has rights, but sometimes it's damned hard to
    exercise them.


    FWIW, here's a chart of the 2209WA colorimetric accuracy, essentially
    "out of the box", only adjusted for brightness (to level 10/100 - about
    125 cd/m2 white level). The monitor had not even been properly
    calibrated for this measure.
    http://i42.tinypic.com/wks09f.jpg
    Delta E is about 1.2 average for most of the range > 30% luminance
    (accuracy of most colorimeters is poor below those levels). Delta E 1.0
    is in simple terms the smallest colour discrepancy visible to the human
    eye. Gamma chart was also very good, and colour temperature relatively
    flat at 6500 K. For almost any practical use, the monitor did not need
    calibration at all - a truly remarkable result for a $500 display. It
    is much better than the original screen I had WRT out of box colour
    performance. I think they changed something in later production
    (hardware rev #AO2). My original screen needed adjustment to get this
    good (or better after careful full calibration).
    That's why I'm happy to have the problems resolved - if I got my money
    back, then I'd still have a problem finding anything else as good.
    Me, Apr 19, 2010
    #12
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