Cross-postin is destoying this newsgroup.

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Michael P Gabriel, Apr 7, 2004.

  1. I wish this newsgroup were monitored so I could use it to learn about
    digital cameras and imaging, and not have to look at stupid titles
    every other post! It's obvious that mental midgets are taking over
    America!

    Where else can we go that won't be invaded by morons!
     
    Michael P Gabriel, Apr 7, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Michael P Gabriel

    nonowt Guest

    Michael P Gabriel wrote:

    >It's obvious that mental midgets are taking over
    > America!


    No - the mental midget is merely a front man for the nasty people who
    really run your country

    > Where else can we go that won't be invaded by morons!


    Well don't try anywhere with oil for a start...
     
    nonowt, Apr 7, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Michael P Gabriel wrote:
    > I wish this newsgroup were monitored so I could use it to learn about
    > digital cameras and imaging, and not have to look at stupid titles
    > every other post! It's obvious that mental midgets are taking over
    > America!


    For starters maybe you could learn that the internet and newsgroups are
    not just for the US. There is a whole world out there. Maybe if more
    Americans knew that and really learned more about it, they would not put
    president in office that thinks he runs the world.

    >
    > Where else can we go that won't be invaded by morons!


    --
    Joseph E. Meehan

    26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
     
    Joseph Meehan, Apr 7, 2004
    #3
  4. Michael P Gabriel

    Rick Guest

    "Joseph Meehan" <> wrote in message news:QlXcc.23$...
    > Michael P Gabriel wrote:
    > > I wish this newsgroup were monitored so I could use it to learn about
    > > digital cameras and imaging, and not have to look at stupid titles
    > > every other post! It's obvious that mental midgets are taking over
    > > America!

    >
    > For starters maybe you could learn that the internet and newsgroups are
    > not just for the US. There is a whole world out there. Maybe if more
    > Americans knew that and really learned more about it, they would not put
    > president in office that thinks he runs the world.


    Wow, great job at reducing the number of OT posts in this
    group. ;-)

    (I happen to agree with your last comment tho. Bush's "your
    either with us or with the terrorists" speech will go down as
    one of the all-time highlights of mental midgetry. It was the
    first time in human history where 5.8 billion people all rolled
    their eyes in disgust at the same time.)

    Rick
     
    Rick, Apr 7, 2004
    #4
  5. Michael P Gabriel

    Charlie Self Guest

    Joseph Meehan writes:

    >Michael P Gabriel wrote:
    >> I wish this newsgroup were monitored so I could use it to learn about
    >> digital cameras and imaging, and not have to look at stupid titles
    >> every other post! It's obvious that mental midgets are taking over
    >> America!

    >
    > For starters maybe you could learn that the internet and newsgroups are
    >not just for the US. There is a whole world out there. Maybe if more
    >Americans knew that and really learned more about it, they would not put
    >president in office that thinks he runs the world.
    >


    Wouldn't it have been simpler to tell the guy to learn to use filters? Many,
    maybe most, Americans detest GWB, but that isn't useful info for the original
    poster.

    Charlie Self
    "Adam and Eve had many advantages but the principal one was that they escaped
    teething." Mark Twain
     
    Charlie Self, Apr 7, 2004
    #5
  6. Michael P Gabriel

    browntimdc Guest

    (Michael P Gabriel) wrote in
    news::

    > I wish this newsgroup were monitored so I could use it to learn about
    > digital cameras and imaging, and not have to look at stupid titles
    > every other post! It's obvious that mental midgets are taking over
    > America!
    >
    > Where else can we go that won't be invaded by morons!


    Get a good news reader and learn to use the filters.

    http://Xnews.newsguy.com

    Tim

    --

    "The strongest human instinct is to impart information,
    and the second strongest is to resist it."

    Kenneth Graham
     
    browntimdc, Apr 7, 2004
    #6
  7. Michael P Gabriel

    Paul H. Guest

    "browntimdc" <> wrote in message

    > Get a good news reader and learn to use the filters.
    >
    > http://Xnews.newsguy.com
    >
    > Tim


    Enough with the "use filters" nonsense, already-- you're beating a veritable
    herd of dead horses. This newsgroup has been going to hell for some time
    now and all those who wanted to use a newsreader with filters have already
    done so. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who used to contribute
    to discussions on this group aren't that computer literate and they have
    simply said, "Oh, who <bleep> cares..." and gone someplace else. Take a
    look at how the real on-topic traffic in this group has dropped off since
    just the end of last year: Soon there won't be anything left to read after
    filtering.

    Face it: rec.photo.digital is dead because a couple of jerk-offs had
    moronic bents for malice through cross-posting and x-rated spamming and all
    of the mindless parroting about using filters ("Use filters! Use filters!
    !!!>AWK<!!! Polly want a cracker!") isn't going to bring it back.

    I would suggest that people instead try the groups at
    www.steves-digicams.com or www.dpreview.com , et al., instead of posting
    here. As a side benefit, they won't have to put up with those Sons and
    Daughters of Liberty who proclaim, "It's a basic human right to post
    messages about having sex with gerbils on rec.photo.digital!" everytime
    someone complains about the situation. Frankly, I don't know who's worse:
    the off-topic cross-posters, the x-rated spammers, the people who defend the
    latter two, or those running around with the "Filters Solve Every Problem!"
    flags.

    This group is a corpse, bloated and stinking in the noon-day sun. It
    doesn't need filters-- it needs a good buryin' shovel and a headstone.
     
    Paul H., Apr 7, 2004
    #7
  8. Michael P Gabriel

    Paul H. Guest

    "Joseph Meehan" <> wrote in message
    news:QlXcc.23$...
    > Michael P Gabriel wrote:
    > > I wish this newsgroup were monitored so I could use it to learn about
    > > digital cameras and imaging, and not have to look at stupid titles
    > > every other post! It's obvious that mental midgets are taking over
    > > America!

    >
    > For starters maybe you could learn that the internet and newsgroups

    are
    > not just for the US. There is a whole world out there. Maybe if more
    > Americans knew that and really learned more about it, they would not put
    > president in office that thinks he runs the world.
    >
    > >
    > > Where else can we go that won't be invaded by morons!

    >
    > --
    > Joseph E. Meehan
    >
    > 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


    You really don't have much room to criticize others when every one of your
    posts ends with a proclaimation of Irish Nationalist bullshit. Do you
    really think the rest of the freaking world cares a whit about Irish
    Re-Unification? I can assure you it doesn't and your cute little "Irish
    Math" tag line is just as annoying as any American flag-waving I've ever
    seen on this group. And just what the hell does your moronic, provencial
    political stance have to do with digital photography, anyway?

    For starters, you should clean the crap out of your own house first before
    complaining about smell coming from your neighbor's back yard. This isn't
    an Irish Internet, after all, so please restrain your offensive zealotry.
    As a citizen of the world, it disgusts me.
     
    Paul H., Apr 7, 2004
    #8
  9. Michael P Gabriel

    Paolo Pizzi Guest

    Michael P Gabriel wrote:

    > It's obvious that mental midgets are taking
    > over America!


    Oh well, just look at our President for a good
    confirmation of that...

    BTW, the internet isn't exactly "America",
    unless you believe that the US owns the
    world... (Republicans typically do.)
     
    Paolo Pizzi, Apr 8, 2004
    #9
  10. Joseph Meehan wrote:

    > Michael P Gabriel wrote:
    >
    >>I wish this newsgroup were monitored so I could use it to learn about
    >>digital cameras and imaging, and not have to look at stupid titles
    >>every other post! It's obvious that mental midgets are taking over
    >>America!

    >
    >
    > For starters maybe you could learn that the internet and newsgroups are
    > not just for the US. There is a whole world out there. Maybe if more
    > Americans knew that and really learned more about it, they would not put
    > president in office that thinks he runs the world.
    >


    Hey but he seems to be implying that the mental midgets are American.
    It's okay to be non-inclusive if you're talking *bad* about Americans,
    right? Mmmmkay.

    Oh, and to the original poster: this newsgroup is being monitored. You
    bet it is. So watch what you say. And think. and do. THEY are listening.

    --
    It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
    http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net

    "Religion isn't the opiate of the masses. When
    properly used, religion is the methamphetamine
    of the masses." - nu-monet v6.0 in alt.slack
     
    Unclaimed Mysteries, Apr 8, 2004
    #10
  11. Paul H. wrote:

    > "Joseph Meehan" <> wrote in part:


    >>26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

    >
    >
    > You really don't have much room to criticize others when every one of your
    > posts ends with a proclaimation of Irish Nationalist bullshit. Do you
    > really think the rest of the freaking world cares a whit about Irish
    > Re-Unification? I can assure you it doesn't and your cute little "Irish
    > Math" tag line is just as annoying as any American flag-waving I've ever
    > seen on this group. And just what the hell does your moronic, provencial
    > political stance have to do with digital photography, anyway?
    >


    Irish math >>>>>> Foveon math.

    Corry
    --
    It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
    http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net
     
    Unclaimed Mysteries, Apr 8, 2004
    #11
  12. Michael P Gabriel

    Steve Young Guest

    > > "browntimdc" <> wrote:
    > > Get a good news reader and learn to use the filters.
    > >
    > > http://Xnews.newsguy.com
    > >
    > > Tim


    > "Paul H." <> wrote


    > Enough with the "use filters" nonsense, already-- you're beating a
    > veritable
    > herd of dead horses. This newsgroup has been going to hell for some time
    > now and all those who wanted to use a newsreader with filters have already
    > done so. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who used to contribute
    > to discussions on this group aren't that computer literate and they have
    > simply said, "Oh, who <bleep> cares..." and gone someplace else. Take a
    > look at how the real on-topic traffic in this group has dropped off since
    > just the end of last year: Soon there won't be anything left to read after
    > filtering.


    > Face it: rec.photo.digital is dead because a couple of jerk-offs had
    > moronic bents for malice through cross-posting and x-rated spamming and all
    > of the mindless parroting about using filters ("Use filters! Use filters!
    > !!!>AWK<!!! Polly want a cracker!") isn't going to bring it back.


    At best, it's only a band aid, with no cure attached. Actually, I think it
    reinforces the problem, because it requires a threshold of complaints to fix
    it. If a third or the audience is anesthetized by filtering, and a third
    barking at the other third for caring, not much gets done :( I can't count
    how many times people have ragged on me for carrying the torch. Here's one:
    "Maybe we should start calling you "Bitch", 'cause that's all you do!?"

    > I would suggest that people instead try the groups at
    > www.steves-digicams.com or www.dpreview.com , et al., instead of posting
    > here. As a side benefit, they won't have to put up with those Sons and
    > Daughters of Liberty who proclaim, "It's a basic human right to post
    > messages about having sex with gerbils on rec.photo.digital!" everytime
    > someone complains about the situation. Frankly, I don't know who's worse:
    > the off-topic cross-posters, the x-rated spammers, the people who defend
    > the latter two, or those running around with the "Filters Solve Every
    > Problem!" flags.


    > This group is a corpse, bloated and stinking in the noon-day sun. It
    > doesn't need filters-- it needs a good buryin' shovel and a headstone.


    Doesn't it amaze you that apparently the 'powers that be' of Usenet want it
    this way? If they didn't, we would have solved it a long time ago. As it is,
    an ever increasing number of us are still banging our heads, asking / pushing
    / demanding change.

    There are solutions, but it takes community to do it. (Usenet community,
    individual news group community)

    If you get curious to see what tools lay fallow and undeveloped, due to lack
    of interest, read this message: Msg-ID:
    (In fact, for convenience, I copy and pasted it below)

    Or what about NoCeM?

    Steve Young
    --
    A newbie's first Usenet encounter occurs without a prophylactic

    _________________________________
    From: "The Archiver" <>
    Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.policy
    Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 5:17 AM EST
    Subject: [CCM] Cancel+Complaint Messages
    FYI:

    I'm making some experiments with easy creatable
    'cancel+complaint' messages:

    Whenever a neticen sees bunches of spam which exceed
    all reasonable limits (which happens all the time in
    the binary hierarchies today) then my newsreader
    offers now a 'CCM' function:
    This functions sends out a 'cancel-by-sight' message
    for one spam-message and sends an abuse-complaint
    to the originating Usenet site.

    The cancel-messages are following all the necessary
    cyberspam rules - except of the msg-id which is not
    created by expanding the original msgid by 'cancel.'
    (The amount of CCMs will be low).

    The abuse-complaint-eMail contains automatically
    all the headers from the cancelled message - so it
    is necessary to have the message fully downloaded
    (and reviewed) before a CCM is sent out.

    -----
    Motivation:

    More and more spammers are 'morphing': They are
    changing subjects and from automatically - many are
    operating in scheduled mode. Many of the messages
    contain no text but just images - which cannot be
    detected to be spam by conventional cancelbots.
    So the neticens must help themselves.

    Worse: Those spammers are also doing NSP-hopping:
    If one account is closed then another one is opened
    anywere. NSPs are having big problems to identify
    these spammers - and neticens are having big problems
    to keep up with writing good complaint messages
    (which was a time-consuming job).

    So these CCM messages are having two functions:

    First they are an attempt to get rid of that spam
    quickly and easily: Especially older installations
    (at smaller ISPs) are still accepting cancel-messages.
    And the existence of a cancel-message might even wake up
    some lazy NSPs better than a simple abuse complaint.

    Second they are sending full necessary info quickly
    and easily to the abuse department of the originating
    NSP. (A standard text is included which explains the purpose
    of the CCM, the subject contains the reason for the CCM
    - almost 'spam', all headers are fully appended).
    If an NSP receives a few dozen of CCMs for a single
    user then he might act quickly.

    Of course my implementation permits also to send out
    the complaints without the cancels.
    And of course it also permits to use 'true-cancels' for
    moderators and authorized persons.
    It would be also possible to activate 'automatic CCMs'
    so that a [partial] UDP based on neticens activities becomes
    possible (this is sci-fi !).

    CCM are not dealing with 'at-the-border' spammers who
    are sending out one or two messages to fifty groups.
    They are about _severe_ spammers who are sending out
    20,50,100,500 spam-messages within a few days - so that
    no discussion about 'BI' or the fact that they are spamming
    is necessary at all. In such cases the only question is
    how to bring that spammer down easily and quickly.


    Of course CCMs are not yet available to everybody in
    the freeware version of my newsreader. They are reserved
    for 'rootserver-licenses' which are given only to responsible
    admins, moderators and well known neticens.
    Perhaps it would be possible to install a new type of 'cancel-men'
    instead of cancel-bots who are doing their job in keeping the
    net clean because they are online regularily all the time.

    This might be a part of the 'self-regulation' mechanisms of
    Usenet which are the only chance how spam and abuse can
    be kept within acceptable limits. Especially in the Binary Usenet
    the 'self-regulation' is not very good currently - and might
    be improved this way.


    Your comments, concerns and feedback would be appreciated.

    --
    Juergen Helbing, The Archiver
    --------------------------
    www.winews.net
    www.yenc.org
     
    Steve Young, Apr 8, 2004
    #12
  13. Michael P Gabriel

    Guest

    Re: Steve Young and Paul H is destoying this newsgroup

    Paul H the ubiquitous troll wrote:

    > "browntimdc" <> wrote in message
    >
    > > Get a good news reader and learn to use the filters.
    > >
    > > http://Xnews.newsguy.com
    > >
    > > Tim

    >
    > Enough with the "use filters" nonsense, already-- you're beating a veritable
    > herd of dead horses. This newsgroup has been going to hell for some time
    > now and all those who wanted to use a newsreader with filters have already
    > done so. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who used to contribute
    > to discussions on this group aren't that computer literate and they have
    > simply said, "Oh, who <bleep> cares..." and gone someplace else. Take a
    > look at how the real on-topic traffic in this group has dropped off since
    > just the end of last year: Soon there won't be anything left to read after
    > filtering.
    >
    > Face it: rec.photo.digital is dead because a couple of jerk-offs had
    > moronic bents for malice through cross-posting and x-rated spamming and all
    > of the mindless parroting about using filters ("Use filters! Use filters!
    > !!!>AWK<!!! Polly want a cracker!") isn't going to bring it back.
    >
    > I would suggest that people instead try the groups at
    > www.steves-digicams.com or www.dpreview.com , et al., instead of posting
    > here. As a side benefit, they won't have to put up with those Sons and
    > Daughters of Liberty who proclaim, "It's a basic human right to post
    > messages about having sex with gerbils on rec.photo.digital!" everytime
    > someone complains about the situation. Frankly, I don't know who's worse:
    > the off-topic cross-posters, the x-rated spammers, the people who defend the
    > latter two, or those running around with the "Filters Solve Every Problem!"
    > flags.
    >
    > This group is a corpse, bloated and stinking in the noon-day sun. It
    > doesn't need filters-- it needs a good buryin' shovel and a headstone.


    Well done Steve Young and Paul H
     
    , Apr 8, 2004
    #13
  14. Michael P Gabriel

    Steve Young Guest

    Re: Steve Young and Paul H is destoying this newsgroup

    <> wrote in message
    > Well done Steve Young and Paul H


    *thank you* *thank you*

    you name me, but you didn't quote my text,
    so I helped you out (see below :)

    > > "browntimdc" <> wrote:
    > > Get a good news reader and learn to use the filters.
    > > http://Xnews.newsguy.com


    > Paul H the ubiquitous troll wrote:
    > Enough with the "use filters" nonsense, already-- you're beating a
    > veritable
    > herd of dead horses. This newsgroup has been going to hell for some time
    > now and all those who wanted to use a newsreader with filters have already
    > done so. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who used to contribute
    > to discussions on this group aren't that computer literate and they have
    > simply said, "Oh, who <bleep> cares..." and gone someplace else. Take a
    > look at how the real on-topic traffic in this group has dropped off since
    > just the end of last year: Soon there won't be anything left to read after
    > filtering.


    > Face it: rec.photo.digital is dead because a couple of jerk-offs had
    > moronic bents for malice through cross-posting and x-rated spamming and all
    > of the mindless parroting about using filters ("Use filters! Use filters!
    > !!!>AWK<!!! Polly want a cracker!") isn't going to bring it back.


    At best, it's only a band aid, with no cure attached. Actually, I think it
    reinforces the problem, because it requires a threshold of complaints to fix
    it. If a third or the audience is anesthetized by filtering, and a third
    barking at the other third for caring, not much gets done :( I can't count
    how many times people have ragged on me for carrying the torch. Here's one:
    "Maybe we should start calling you "Bitch", 'cause that's all you do!?"

    > I would suggest that people instead try the groups at
    > www.steves-digicams.com or www.dpreview.com , et al., instead of posting
    > here. As a side benefit, they won't have to put up with those Sons and
    > Daughters of Liberty who proclaim, "It's a basic human right to post
    > messages about having sex with gerbils on rec.photo.digital!" everytime
    > someone complains about the situation. Frankly, I don't know who's worse:
    > the off-topic cross-posters, the x-rated spammers, the people who defend
    > the latter two, or those running around with the "Filters Solve Every
    > Problem!" flags.


    > This group is a corpse, bloated and stinking in the noon-day sun. It
    > doesn't need filters-- it needs a good buryin' shovel and a headstone.


    Doesn't it amaze you that apparently the 'powers that be' of Usenet want it
    this way? If they didn't, we would have solved it a long time ago. As it is,
    an ever increasing number of us are still banging our heads, asking / pushing
    / demanding change.

    There are solutions, but it takes community to do it. (Usenet community,
    individual news group community)

    If you get curious to see what tools lay fallow and undeveloped, due to lack
    of interest, read this message: Msg-ID:
    (In fact, for convenience, I copy and pasted it below)

    Or what about NoCeM?

    Steve Young
    --
    A newbie's first Usenet encounter occurs without a prophylactic

    _________________________________
    From: "The Archiver" <>
    Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.policy
    Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 5:17 AM EST
    Subject: [CCM] Cancel+Complaint Messages
    FYI:

    I'm making some experiments with easy creatable
    'cancel+complaint' messages:

    Whenever a neticen sees bunches of spam which exceed
    all reasonable limits (which happens all the time in
    the binary hierarchies today) then my newsreader
    offers now a 'CCM' function:
    This functions sends out a 'cancel-by-sight' message
    for one spam-message and sends an abuse-complaint
    to the originating Usenet site.

    The cancel-messages are following all the necessary
    cyberspam rules - except of the msg-id which is not
    created by expanding the original msgid by 'cancel.'
    (The amount of CCMs will be low).

    The abuse-complaint-eMail contains automatically
    all the headers from the cancelled message - so it
    is necessary to have the message fully downloaded
    (and reviewed) before a CCM is sent out.

    -----
    Motivation:

    More and more spammers are 'morphing': They are
    changing subjects and from automatically - many are
    operating in scheduled mode. Many of the messages
    contain no text but just images - which cannot be
    detected to be spam by conventional cancelbots.
    So the neticens must help themselves.

    Worse: Those spammers are also doing NSP-hopping:
    If one account is closed then another one is opened
    anywere. NSPs are having big problems to identify
    these spammers - and neticens are having big problems
    to keep up with writing good complaint messages
    (which was a time-consuming job).

    So these CCM messages are having two functions:

    First they are an attempt to get rid of that spam
    quickly and easily: Especially older installations
    (at smaller ISPs) are still accepting cancel-messages.
    And the existence of a cancel-message might even wake up
    some lazy NSPs better than a simple abuse complaint.

    Second they are sending full necessary info quickly
    and easily to the abuse department of the originating
    NSP. (A standard text is included which explains the purpose
    of the CCM, the subject contains the reason for the CCM
    - almost 'spam', all headers are fully appended).
    If an NSP receives a few dozen of CCMs for a single
    user then he might act quickly.

    Of course my implementation permits also to send out
    the complaints without the cancels.
    And of course it also permits to use 'true-cancels' for
    moderators and authorized persons.
    It would be also possible to activate 'automatic CCMs'
    so that a [partial] UDP based on neticens activities becomes
    possible (this is sci-fi !).

    CCM are not dealing with 'at-the-border' spammers who
    are sending out one or two messages to fifty groups.
    They are about _severe_ spammers who are sending out
    20,50,100,500 spam-messages within a few days - so that
    no discussion about 'BI' or the fact that they are spamming
    is necessary at all. In such cases the only question is
    how to bring that spammer down easily and quickly.


    Of course CCMs are not yet available to everybody in
    the freeware version of my newsreader. They are reserved
    for 'rootserver-licenses' which are given only to responsible
    admins, moderators and well known neticens.
    Perhaps it would be possible to install a new type of 'cancel-men'
    instead of cancel-bots who are doing their job in keeping the
    net clean because they are online regularily all the time.

    This might be a part of the 'self-regulation' mechanisms of
    Usenet which are the only chance how spam and abuse can
    be kept within acceptable limits. Especially in the Binary Usenet
    the 'self-regulation' is not very good currently - and might
    be improved this way.


    Your comments, concerns and feedback would be appreciated.

    --
    Juergen Helbing, The Archiver
    --------------------------
     
    Steve Young, Apr 8, 2004
    #14
  15. Michael P Gabriel

    Rick Guest

    Re: Steve Young and Paul H is destoying this newsgroup

    <> wrote in message news:4074A027.2678.11A73B9@localhost...
    > Paul H the ubiquitous troll wrote:
    >
    > > "browntimdc" <> wrote in message
    > >
    > > > Get a good news reader and learn to use the filters.
    > > >
    > > > http://Xnews.newsguy.com
    > > >
    > > > Tim

    > > I would suggest that people instead try the groups at
    > > www.steves-digicams.com or www.dpreview.com , et al., instead of posting
    > > here.


    Thankfully my main ISP put a domain block on Dizum
    last week, because of their obsolete AUP which allows
    this type of Usenet disruption. All I see now are responses
    to OT messages in this group. MUCH better!

    Rick
     
    Rick, Apr 8, 2004
    #15
  16. (Michael P Gabriel) writes:
    >I wish this newsgroup were monitored so I could use it to learn about
    >digital cameras and imaging, and not have to look at stupid titles
    >every other post! It's obvious that mental midgets are taking over
    >America!


    Get a decent newsreader. My own newsreader automatically killed 152
    messages that came through dizum.com when I started it up this morning.
    That seems to have gotten all of the unpleasant postings.

    It took a minute or so to do this, but better to waste the computer's
    time than mine.

    Dave
     
    Dave Martindale, Apr 8, 2004
    #16
  17. Michael P Gabriel

    Rick Guest

    Dave,

    I use Forte Agent, but cannot find a way to kill msgs from a domain
    (dizum.com). If you are not familiar with Agent, is there a generic
    way that one would go about filtering/killing msgs based on that? I
    see dizum.com listed in the path: field of the header, but can't seem
    to get at that string. Thanks...

    rick


    On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 18:37:26 +0000 (UTC), (Dave
    Martindale) wrote:

    > (Michael P Gabriel) writes:
    >>I wish this newsgroup were monitored so I could use it to learn about
    >>digital cameras and imaging, and not have to look at stupid titles
    >>every other post! It's obvious that mental midgets are taking over
    >>America!

    >
    >Get a decent newsreader. My own newsreader automatically killed 152
    >messages that came through dizum.com when I started it up this morning.
    >That seems to have gotten all of the unpleasant postings.
    >
    >It took a minute or so to do this, but better to waste the computer's
    >time than mine.
    >
    > Dave
     
    Rick, Apr 8, 2004
    #17
  18. Michael P Gabriel

    Bowzah Guest

    "Steve Young" <> wrote in message
    news:d62dc.32634$...
    > > > "browntimdc" <> wrote:
    > > > Get a good news reader and learn to use the filters.
    > > >
    > > > http://Xnews.newsguy.com
    > > >
    > > > Tim

    >
    > > "Paul H." <> wrote

    >
    > > Enough with the "use filters" nonsense, already-- you're beating a
    > > veritable
    > > herd of dead horses. This newsgroup has been going to hell for some

    time
    > > now and all those who wanted to use a newsreader with filters have

    already
    > > done so. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who used to

    contribute
    > > to discussions on this group aren't that computer literate and they have
    > > simply said, "Oh, who <bleep> cares..." and gone someplace else. Take a
    > > look at how the real on-topic traffic in this group has dropped off

    since
    > > just the end of last year: Soon there won't be anything left to read

    after
    > > filtering.

    >
    > > Face it: rec.photo.digital is dead because a couple of jerk-offs had
    > > moronic bents for malice through cross-posting and x-rated spamming and

    all
    > > of the mindless parroting about using filters ("Use filters! Use

    filters!
    > > !!!>AWK<!!! Polly want a cracker!") isn't going to bring it back.

    >
    > At best, it's only a band aid, with no cure attached. Actually, I think it
    > reinforces the problem, because it requires a threshold of complaints to

    fix
    > it. If a third or the audience is anesthetized by filtering, and a third
    > barking at the other third for caring, not much gets done :( I can't count
    > how many times people have ragged on me for carrying the torch. Here's

    one:
    > "Maybe we should start calling you "Bitch", 'cause that's all you do!?"
    >
    > > I would suggest that people instead try the groups at
    > > www.steves-digicams.com or www.dpreview.com , et al., instead of posting
    > > here. As a side benefit, they won't have to put up with those Sons and
    > > Daughters of Liberty who proclaim, "It's a basic human right to post
    > > messages about having sex with gerbils on rec.photo.digital!" everytime
    > > someone complains about the situation. Frankly, I don't know who's

    worse:
    > > the off-topic cross-posters, the x-rated spammers, the people who defend
    > > the latter two, or those running around with the "Filters Solve Every
    > > Problem!" flags.

    >
    > > This group is a corpse, bloated and stinking in the noon-day sun. It
    > > doesn't need filters-- it needs a good buryin' shovel and a headstone.

    >
    > Doesn't it amaze you that apparently the 'powers that be' of Usenet want

    it
    > this way? If they didn't, we would have solved it a long time ago. As it

    is,
    > an ever increasing number of us are still banging our heads, asking /

    pushing
    > / demanding change.


    The newsgroups are protected by the first amendment, and can't be edited,
    unless they are specifically listed as moderated. Nobody wants assholes
    polluting this newsgroup, but you can't do anything except filter and kill.

    >
    > There are solutions, but it takes community to do it. (Usenet community,
    > individual news group community)
    >
    > If you get curious to see what tools lay fallow and undeveloped, due to

    lack
    > of interest, read this message: Msg-ID:
    > (In fact, for convenience, I copy and pasted it below)
    >
    > Or what about NoCeM?
    >
    > Steve Young
    > --
    > A newbie's first Usenet encounter occurs without a prophylactic
    >
    > _________________________________
    > From: "The Archiver" <>
    > Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.policy
    > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 5:17 AM EST
    > Subject: [CCM] Cancel+Complaint Messages
    > FYI:
    >
    > I'm making some experiments with easy creatable
    > 'cancel+complaint' messages:
    >
    > Whenever a neticen sees bunches of spam which exceed
    > all reasonable limits (which happens all the time in
    > the binary hierarchies today) then my newsreader
    > offers now a 'CCM' function:
    > This functions sends out a 'cancel-by-sight' message
    > for one spam-message and sends an abuse-complaint
    > to the originating Usenet site.
    >
    > The cancel-messages are following all the necessary
    > cyberspam rules - except of the msg-id which is not
    > created by expanding the original msgid by 'cancel.'
    > (The amount of CCMs will be low).
    >
    > The abuse-complaint-eMail contains automatically
    > all the headers from the cancelled message - so it
    > is necessary to have the message fully downloaded
    > (and reviewed) before a CCM is sent out.
    >
    > -----
    > Motivation:
    >
    > More and more spammers are 'morphing': They are
    > changing subjects and from automatically - many are
    > operating in scheduled mode. Many of the messages
    > contain no text but just images - which cannot be
    > detected to be spam by conventional cancelbots.
    > So the neticens must help themselves.
    >
    > Worse: Those spammers are also doing NSP-hopping:
    > If one account is closed then another one is opened
    > anywere. NSPs are having big problems to identify
    > these spammers - and neticens are having big problems
    > to keep up with writing good complaint messages
    > (which was a time-consuming job).
    >
    > So these CCM messages are having two functions:
    >
    > First they are an attempt to get rid of that spam
    > quickly and easily: Especially older installations
    > (at smaller ISPs) are still accepting cancel-messages.
    > And the existence of a cancel-message might even wake up
    > some lazy NSPs better than a simple abuse complaint.
    >
    > Second they are sending full necessary info quickly
    > and easily to the abuse department of the originating
    > NSP. (A standard text is included which explains the purpose
    > of the CCM, the subject contains the reason for the CCM
    > - almost 'spam', all headers are fully appended).
    > If an NSP receives a few dozen of CCMs for a single
    > user then he might act quickly.
    >
    > Of course my implementation permits also to send out
    > the complaints without the cancels.
    > And of course it also permits to use 'true-cancels' for
    > moderators and authorized persons.
    > It would be also possible to activate 'automatic CCMs'
    > so that a [partial] UDP based on neticens activities becomes
    > possible (this is sci-fi !).
    >
    > CCM are not dealing with 'at-the-border' spammers who
    > are sending out one or two messages to fifty groups.
    > They are about _severe_ spammers who are sending out
    > 20,50,100,500 spam-messages within a few days - so that
    > no discussion about 'BI' or the fact that they are spamming
    > is necessary at all. In such cases the only question is
    > how to bring that spammer down easily and quickly.
    >
    >
    > Of course CCMs are not yet available to everybody in
    > the freeware version of my newsreader. They are reserved
    > for 'rootserver-licenses' which are given only to responsible
    > admins, moderators and well known neticens.
    > Perhaps it would be possible to install a new type of 'cancel-men'
    > instead of cancel-bots who are doing their job in keeping the
    > net clean because they are online regularily all the time.
    >
    > This might be a part of the 'self-regulation' mechanisms of
    > Usenet which are the only chance how spam and abuse can
    > be kept within acceptable limits. Especially in the Binary Usenet
    > the 'self-regulation' is not very good currently - and might
    > be improved this way.
    >
    >
    > Your comments, concerns and feedback would be appreciated.
    >
    > --
    > Juergen Helbing, The Archiver
    > --------------------------
    > www.winews.net
    > www.yenc.org
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    Bowzah, Apr 9, 2004
    #18
  19. Michael P Gabriel

    Steve Young Guest

    > > > "Paul H." <> wrote
    [...]
    > > > This group is a corpse, bloated and stinking in the noon-day sun. It
    > > > doesn't need filters-- it needs a good buryin' shovel and a headstone.


    > > "Steve Young" <> wrote
    > > Doesn't it amaze you that apparently the 'powers that be' of Usenet want
    > > it this way? If they didn't, we would have solved it a long time ago. As
    > > it is, an ever increasing number of us are still banging our heads,
    > > asking / advocating / demanding change.


    > "Bowzah" <> wrote
    > The newsgroups are protected by the first amendment, and can't be edited,
    > unless they are specifically listed as moderated. Nobody wants assholes
    > polluting this newsgroup, but you can't do anything except filter and kill.


    What does a spam bot do?
    And, if service providers were responsive, those that violate the newsgroup
    charter would lose service, because it would translate into violation of the
    providers TOS. So I disagree that nothing can be done. But actually, there
    is no first amendment guarantee on Usenet, as the structure is privately
    owned, though it has not been privately controlled. Then of course, it being
    international, I'd guess not all first amendments read the same. (So the
    rules really are what we make them and how we go about enforcing them).

    Steve Young

    --
    A newbie's first Usenet encounter occurs without a prophylactic
     
    Steve Young, Apr 9, 2004
    #19
  20. Michael P Gabriel

    Bowzah Guest

    "Steve Young" <> wrote in message
    news:gGldc.62237$...
    > > > > "Paul H." <> wrote

    > [...]
    > > > > This group is a corpse, bloated and stinking in the noon-day sun.

    It
    > > > > doesn't need filters-- it needs a good buryin' shovel and a

    headstone.
    >
    > > > "Steve Young" <> wrote
    > > > Doesn't it amaze you that apparently the 'powers that be' of Usenet

    want
    > > > it this way? If they didn't, we would have solved it a long time ago.

    As
    > > > it is, an ever increasing number of us are still banging our heads,
    > > > asking / advocating / demanding change.

    >
    > > "Bowzah" <> wrote
    > > The newsgroups are protected by the first amendment, and can't be

    edited,
    > > unless they are specifically listed as moderated. Nobody wants assholes
    > > polluting this newsgroup, but you can't do anything except filter and

    kill.
    >
    > What does a spam bot do?
    > And, if service providers were responsive, those that violate the

    newsgroup
    > charter would lose service, because it would translate into violation of

    the
    > providers TOS. So I disagree that nothing can be done. But actually,

    there
    > is no first amendment guarantee on Usenet, as the structure is privately
    > owned, though it has not been privately controlled. Then of course, it

    being
    > international, I'd guess not all first amendments read the same. (So the
    > rules really are what we make them and how we go about enforcing them).


    The RIAA sued a NG service provider to prevent MP3 distribution and lost due
    to the first amendment protection. Admittely, I'm no lawyer, but it seems
    that the NGs are somewhat untouchable.

    >
    > Steve Young
    >
    > --
    > A newbie's first Usenet encounter occurs without a prophylactic
    >
    >
     
    Bowzah, Apr 10, 2004
    #20
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