Cropped picture file size larger than original?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Videot, Oct 19, 2004.

  1. Videot

    Videot Guest

    I took several pictures from my Olympus C-750 to edit then using Ulead's
    Photo Explorer. Every picture once changed & saved was larger than the
    original. I have checked the settings for the program but can't see any
    settings that are wrong. I was looking for any setting that might resample
    upwards but can't find any. The original were JPEG which I'm aware isn't the
    best for resaving but I never expected that every picture I adjusted would
    came out at least 50% larger than when I started. Many of the picture were
    cropped so they should have had a smaller file size. Any idea as to what's
    going on?


    --
    Thanks in advance
    Videot, Oct 19, 2004
    #1
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  2. Videot

    Jürgen Eidt Guest

    "Videot" <> schrieb
    >I took several pictures from my Olympus C-750 to edit then using Ulead's
    > Photo Explorer. Every picture once changed & saved was larger than the
    > original. I have checked the settings for the program but can't see any
    > settings that are wrong. I was looking for any setting that might resample
    > upwards but can't find any. The original were JPEG which I'm aware isn't
    > the
    > best for resaving but I never expected that every picture I adjusted would
    > came out at least 50% larger than when I started. Many of the picture were
    > cropped so they should have had a smaller file size. Any idea as to what's
    > going on?

    Quite simple, the crop was not loss less. The cropped image was resaved with
    a higher quality level as the picture was taken, which results in a larger
    file size.
    You should use the loss less crop developed by Guido Vollbeding. Have a look
    at http://jpegclub.org/losslessapps.html, there are several to choose from.

    --
    Regards
    Jürgen

    http://cpicture.de/en
    Jürgen Eidt, Oct 19, 2004
    #2
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  3. Videot

    Videot Guest

    I have been working with photos for many years & this is the first time I
    have ever seen this. I don't usually use this program for doing this sort
    of thing since I usually use Corels' Photopaint but this one seemed that it
    might be good at doing quicker & easier changes than Photopaint.


    "Jürgen Eidt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Videot" <> schrieb
    > >I took several pictures from my Olympus C-750 to edit then using Ulead's
    > > Photo Explorer. Every picture once changed & saved was larger than the
    > > original. I have checked the settings for the program but can't see any
    > > settings that are wrong. I was looking for any setting that might

    resample
    > > upwards but can't find any. The original were JPEG which I'm aware isn't
    > > the
    > > best for resaving but I never expected that every picture I adjusted

    would
    > > came out at least 50% larger than when I started. Many of the picture

    were
    > > cropped so they should have had a smaller file size. Any idea as to

    what's
    > > going on?

    > Quite simple, the crop was not loss less. The cropped image was resaved

    with
    > a higher quality level as the picture was taken, which results in a larger
    > file size.
    > You should use the loss less crop developed by Guido Vollbeding. Have a

    look
    > at http://jpegclub.org/losslessapps.html, there are several to choose

    from.
    >
    > --
    > Regards
    > Jürgen
    >
    > http://cpicture.de/en
    >
    >
    Videot, Oct 19, 2004
    #3
  4. On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:06:54 +0800, "Videot" <> wrote:

    >I have been working with photos for many years & this is the first time I
    >have ever seen this.


    try looking at the camera's settings. If it's set to the lowest quality, then
    the editing software might well save it at a higher quality setting.

    Do some experiments, try saving as a TIF and cropping that.


    --
    Chris Pollard


    CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
    http://www.cginternet.net
    Christopher Pollard, Oct 19, 2004
    #4
  5. Videot

    Jürgen Eidt Guest

    "Videot" <> schrieb
    >I have been working with photos for many years & this is the first time I
    > have ever seen this. I don't usually use this program for doing this sort
    > of thing since I usually use Corels' Photopaint but this one seemed that
    > it
    > might be good at doing quicker & easier changes than Photopaint.

    Of course it always depends on the workflow. If you crop a JPEG and then
    adjust levels, do some sharpening or other touch ups you don't need a loss
    less crop.
    You always have to keep in mind that loss less crop aligns the upper left
    corner on a grid (the grid size is for most camera JPEGs 8x16 pixels,
    depending on the color subsampling).

    --
    Regards
    Jürgen

    http://cpicture.de/en
    Jürgen Eidt, Oct 19, 2004
    #5
  6. Videot wrote:
    >
    > I have been working with photos for many years & this is the first time I
    > have ever seen this. I don't usually use this program for doing this sort
    > of thing since I usually use Corels' Photopaint but this one seemed that it
    > might be good at doing quicker & easier changes than Photopaint.


    You must recognize that the commercial software vendors are usually
    not interested in optimal JPEG processing, and many of them are
    incapable understanding and handling JPEG properly.
    The best JPEG features are currently ignored and unused by the
    commercial market. This has reasons. For example, some vendors
    want to sell you other image coding technologies (e.g. JPEG2000)
    which are really inferior to common JPEG. They tell you otherwise,
    of course, so take care, this is a hoax!

    Regards
    Guido
    Guido Vollbeding, Oct 19, 2004
    #6
  7. Videot

    AusDigi Guest

    "Guido Vollbeding" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You must recognize that the commercial software vendors are usually
    > not interested in optimal JPEG processing, and many of them are
    > incapable understanding and handling JPEG properly.
    > The best JPEG features are currently ignored and unused by the
    > commercial market. This has reasons. For example, some vendors
    > want to sell you other image coding technologies (e.g. JPEG2000)
    > which are really inferior to common JPEG. They tell you otherwise,
    > of course, so take care, this is a hoax!


    Its nice to see a couple of jpeg pioneers like yourself on here, espousing
    valuable advice too.
    AusDigi, Oct 19, 2004
    #7
  8. AusDigi wrote:
    >
    > Its nice to see a couple of jpeg pioneers like yourself on here, espousing
    > valuable advice too.


    Sometimes, when the mistakes happening are too large, the "pioneers"
    must stand up and appoint the common errors.
    However, my hopes for correcting the errors are not great at the
    moment - our world is full of errors which are much more horrible
    and yet unsolved, although the solutions would be rather simple.
    But the dark forces against such solutions are still strong.

    Regards
    Guido
    Guido Vollbeding, Oct 19, 2004
    #8
  9. As the author of a freeware photo manipulating package I found this very
    interesting. I was able to find some open source lossless jpeg rotation
    code which I have incorporated into my software, but I still resample after
    cropping.

    Are you aware of any open source lossless cropping algorithms? My software
    is a hobby project so I can't afford to pay for source.

    Regards
    Keith
    Keith Sheppard, Oct 19, 2004
    #9
  10. Keith Sheppard wrote:
    >
    > As the author of a freeware photo manipulating package I found this very
    > interesting. I was able to find some open source lossless jpeg rotation
    > code which I have incorporated into my software, but I still resample after
    > cropping.
    >
    > Are you aware of any open source lossless cropping algorithms? My software
    > is a hobby project so I can't afford to pay for source.


    Your basic source of JPEG implementation is the Independent JPEG Group
    software available from http://www.ijg.org .

    More advanced JPEG feature implementations you can find at http://jpegclub.org .
    This is also kind of a "hobby project", so I can't afford to invest too
    much time in it currently - there is more potential, but the actual
    results are remarkable.

    If you know that JPEG operates on separate transformation blocks,
    the *idea* of lossless cropping is rather trivial, though the
    actual implementation is somewhat more demanding. You can find
    it in and use it with my jpegtran croppatch code.

    The idea of lossless JPEG rotation is not so trivial - you will find
    the open implementation source code in the actual IJG v6b version.

    The greatest discovery since JPEG introduction in 1992 so far are
    the new scaling features - because they are based on a fundamental
    DCT property which is not widely known and utilized today and was
    not known to the original JPEG authors. The scaling features are
    just a direct utilization of this property, but there is more
    potential.

    Regards
    Guido
    Guido Vollbeding, Oct 19, 2004
    #10
  11. Videot

    Gadgets Guest

    Program saving profile, thumbnail and other data with the pic?

    Cheers, Jason (remove ... to reply)
    Video & Gaming: http://gadgetaus.com
    Gadgets, Oct 19, 2004
    #11
  12. Videot

    Videot Guest

    I suppose that what is happening is that my original JPEG image was opened
    to full size, then cropped & saved but this time at a higher setting which
    resulted in a larger file size. Is this correct?

    I have since opened JPEG's in Photopaint & cropped them there then saved
    them but these files sizes didn't increase in size, they got smaller as I
    had expected.


    "Gadgets" <info@gadgetaus...com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Program saving profile, thumbnail and other data with the pic?
    >
    > Cheers, Jason (remove ... to reply)
    > Video & Gaming: http://gadgetaus.com
    Videot, Oct 20, 2004
    #12
  13. Videot

    Mr Jessop Guest

    once you have resaved the crop the software is using a lower level of
    compression than was used to write the original image.
    hence the file size is larger. If you use photoshop you will notice the
    uncompressed size in the lower left hand corner. compare that figure with
    the non cropped one. The non cropped image is larger.

    "Videot" <> wrote in message
    news:4174bd4f$0$29780$...
    >I have been working with photos for many years & this is the first time I
    > have ever seen this. I don't usually use this program for doing this sort
    > of thing since I usually use Corels' Photopaint but this one seemed that
    > it
    > might be good at doing quicker & easier changes than Photopaint.
    >
    >
    > "Jürgen Eidt" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> "Videot" <> schrieb
    >> >I took several pictures from my Olympus C-750 to edit then using Ulead's
    >> > Photo Explorer. Every picture once changed & saved was larger than the
    >> > original. I have checked the settings for the program but can't see any
    >> > settings that are wrong. I was looking for any setting that might

    > resample
    >> > upwards but can't find any. The original were JPEG which I'm aware
    >> > isn't
    >> > the
    >> > best for resaving but I never expected that every picture I adjusted

    > would
    >> > came out at least 50% larger than when I started. Many of the picture

    > were
    >> > cropped so they should have had a smaller file size. Any idea as to

    > what's
    >> > going on?

    >> Quite simple, the crop was not loss less. The cropped image was resaved

    > with
    >> a higher quality level as the picture was taken, which results in a
    >> larger
    >> file size.
    >> You should use the loss less crop developed by Guido Vollbeding. Have a

    > look
    >> at http://jpegclub.org/losslessapps.html, there are several to choose

    > from.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Regards
    >> Jürgen
    >>
    >> http://cpicture.de/en
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    Mr Jessop, Oct 21, 2004
    #13
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