.CRF colour profile help needed

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by David Kilpatrick, Apr 2, 2004.

  1. I had a one-hour conversation this morning with a photo library owner
    who shoots using a certain brand of leading digital SLR with a full
    frame sensor. Complaints: the images need sharpening to setting 2
    (despite advice not to sharpen at all for library use) or they look too
    soft to be marketable; the colour saturation is impossible to get high
    enough even when exporting on setting 4, Saturated sRGB. He has been
    given some odd conflicting advice and has been doing strange things like
    assigning his sRGB exported 160bit TIFFs as 'AdobeRGB' when opening them
    in Photoshop just because it looks more saturated...

    I checked his website and did not agree that the pix were low in
    saturation; I thought his saturation, exposure and quality looked fine
    on the watermarked thumbnails:

    www.imageclick.co.uk

    He's going to send me a CD with a .CRF original file and his processed
    version. Mind you, he told me he'd been comparing his DSLR work with
    scanned 6 x 7 polarized Velvias. He's worried because other library
    sites have highly saturated pix. Well, we are not all back in the 1980s
    trying to shoot the colour equivalent of Grade 4 black and white, but
    maybe some buyers are still after that.

    Maybe another D1S owner can assist? I've suggested maybe he should get
    PhaseOne's Capture One.

    David
     
    David Kilpatrick, Apr 2, 2004
    #1
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  2. "David Kilpatrick" <> wrote in message
    news:c4jrdn$m9b$...
    > I had a one-hour conversation this morning with a photo library owner
    > who shoots using a certain brand of leading digital SLR with a full
    > frame sensor. Complaints: the images need sharpening to setting 2
    > (despite advice not to sharpen at all for library use) or they look too
    > soft to be marketable; the colour saturation is impossible to get high
    > enough even when exporting on setting 4, Saturated sRGB.


    Sound like he needs to adopt better colormanagement practices, possibly
    including the creation of a profile for his (if he is the only person
    shooting), and an improved sharpening technique. On the other hand he
    (and/or his clients) might like oversaturated images (a bit like Velvia). I
    also don't know what the purpose for the images is, I mean screen display or
    print, both of which require different sharpening.

    SNIP
    > I've suggested maybe he should get PhaseOne's Capture One.


    That might help some, but It still depends on operator skill.

    I've been getting excellent sharpening results with some specific
    mathematical deconvolutions and with some photoshop actions, but it does
    take some knowledge to get the best results geared to specific equipment
    features. I wouldn't mind trying some sharpening on a crop of his image to
    see what's feasible and how that compares to his film scans that might well
    be superior for their ultimate goal.

    Bart
     
    Bart van der Wolf, Apr 3, 2004
    #2
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  3. David Kilpatrick

    Guest

    David Kilpatrick <> wrote:
    > I had a one-hour conversation this morning with a photo library owner
    > who shoots using a certain brand of leading digital SLR with a full
    > frame sensor. Complaints: the images need sharpening to setting 2
    > (despite advice not to sharpen at all for library use) or they look too
    > soft to be marketable;


    If you want something that behaves in a similar way to Velvia, you'll
    sharpen a bit -- look at the MTF curve in
    http://www.fujifilm.com\/JSP/fuji/epartners/bin/RVP100FAF3-148E.pdf,
    which rises to about 130% at 10lp/mm and then falls away. If you want
    to do that on a digital camera, you sharpen.

    > the colour saturation is impossible to get high
    > enough even when exporting on setting 4, Saturated sRGB.


    sRGB? For high saturation? Really?

    > He has been given some odd conflicting advice and has been doing
    > strange things like assigning his sRGB exported 160bit TIFFs as
    > 'AdobeRGB' when opening them in Photoshop just because it looks more
    > saturated...


    I don't understand this. Surely if you want high saturation, you just
    turn up the saturation knob. That's what digital is all about: you
    don't have to use something like Velvia all the time.

    > I checked his website and did not agree that the pix were low in
    > saturation; I thought his saturation, exposure and quality looked fine
    > on the watermarked thumbnails:


    > www.imageclick.co.uk


    > He's going to send me a CD with a .CRF original file and his
    > processed version. Mind you, he told me he'd been comparing his DSLR
    > work with scanned 6 x 7 polarized Velvias.


    Ah. Well, that's hard. Velvia is nothing like accurate, whereas high
    end digital SLRs are designed to be. Also, the D1s is very nice, but
    the amount of data on a 6x7 trannie is great.

    Andrew.
     
    , Apr 5, 2004
    #3
  4. lid wrote:

    > David Kilpatrick <> wrote:
    >
    >>I had a one-hour conversation this morning with a photo library owner
    >>who shoots using a certain brand of leading digital SLR with a full
    >>frame sensor. Complaints: the images need sharpening to setting 2
    >>(despite advice not to sharpen at all for library use) or they look too
    >>soft to be marketable;

    >
    >
    > If you want something that behaves in a similar way to Velvia, you'll
    > sharpen a bit -- look at the MTF curve in
    > http://www.fujifilm.com\/JSP/fuji/epartners/bin/RVP100FAF3-148E.pdf,
    > which rises to about 130% at 10lp/mm and then falls away. If you want
    > to do that on a digital camera, you sharpen.
    >
    >
    >>the colour saturation is impossible to get high
    >>enough even when exporting on setting 4, Saturated sRGB.

    >
    >
    > sRGB? For high saturation? Really?
    >


    Yes, all cameras which offer a 'Vivid' or 'Saturated' mode or a number
    of colour modes - like Portrait or Landscape - tend to do this using
    sRGB as the 'host' colour space for their adjusted rendering. What you
    get is an sRGB file, but with modified colour. Generally an Adobe RGB
    from the same camera includes the entire gamut of all the possible
    adjusted sRGB variants - meaning that is is pointless to use these
    settings, as all you are actually doing is throwing away colour!

    Kodak's 'Looks' seem different, and the adjustment made from the raw
    file seems to me to reflect a wider source space from the camera, as you
    can save a 'Look' into an Adobe RGB file.

    The Canon colour modes though are riding on sRGB (as are Minolta's
    Standard and Vivid colour... etc)

    David
     
    David Kilpatrick, Apr 5, 2004
    #4
  5. David Kilpatrick

    Guest

    David Kilpatrick <> wrote:


    > lid wrote:


    >>>the colour saturation is impossible to get high
    >>>enough even when exporting on setting 4, Saturated sRGB.

    >>
    >>
    >> sRGB? For high saturation? Really?
    >>


    > Yes, all cameras which offer a 'Vivid' or 'Saturated' mode or a
    > number of colour modes - like Portrait or Landscape - tend to do
    > this using sRGB as the 'host' colour space for their adjusted
    > rendering. What you get is an sRGB file, but with modified colour.


    I see: the file is tagged as sRGB, but that's not really what it is.
    There's a risk that's going to cause gamut clipping with a highly
    saturated subject, particularly something like a sunset.

    > Kodak's 'Looks' seem different, and the adjustment made from the raw
    > file seems to me to reflect a wider source space from the camera


    You'd expect that, I suppose: I'm sure raw images have a larger gamut
    than Adobe RGB.

    Andrew.
     
    , Apr 6, 2004
    #5
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