craiglist owners get hit by LEA for running illegal ads and services

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by richard, May 5, 2009.

  1. richard

    richard Guest

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/05/05/craigslist.sex.ads/index.html?eref=rss_topstories


    Wahhhhhhhhhh!!!


    Three state Attorney Generals offices are planning on charging
    craiglist owners with knowingly offering prostitution services.

    In one section titled "erotic services", like duh, that needs
    explanation? Ads for prostitutes in several cities can easily be
    found.

    The investigation was sparked by the murder of a craiglist advertiser
    in a motel. Well duh. There are hundreds of crazees out there who
    haunt numerous such services and may have killed others using the same
    method or similar. `

    Like LEA people can't find similar stuff on myspace, facebook, digg,
    twitter, and other similar sites? Sheesh. I'll bet I can come up with
    a hundred in no time.
     
    richard, May 5, 2009
    #1
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  2. richard

    Evan Platt Guest

    On Tue, 05 May 2009 13:50:07 -0400, richard <>
    wrote:

    >Three state Attorney Generals offices are planning on charging
    >craiglist owners with knowingly offering prostitution services.


    Not gonna work. They've tried similar things with eBay - charging eBay
    with 'selling of stolen goods' when eBay is simply a venue.

    >In one section titled "erotic services", like duh, that needs
    >explanation?


    There's plenty of things that could fit in erotic services that have
    nothing to do with prostitution. I'm sure you've participated in many,
    likely under the M4M category.

    >Ads for prostitutes in several cities can easily be found.


    I'm sure you spent plenty of time looking.

    >The investigation was sparked by the murder of a craiglist advertiser
    >in a motel. Well duh. There are hundreds of crazees out there who
    >haunt numerous such services and may have killed others using the same
    >method or similar. `


    Speaking of crazees....

    >Like LEA people can't find similar stuff on myspace, facebook, digg,
    >twitter, and other similar sites? Sheesh. I'll bet I can come up with
    >a hundred in no time.


    Yeah, I bet you've got them all bookmarked.
    --
    To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious from my e-mail address.
     
    Evan Platt, May 5, 2009
    #2
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  3. richard

    Mike Yetto Guest

    Re: craiglist owners get hit by LEA for running illegal ads andservices

    Bada bing wetpixel <> bada bang:
    > In article <>, richard
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/05/05/craigslist.sex.ads/index.html?eref=rss_tops
    >> tories
    >>
    >>
    >> Wahhhhhhhhhh!!!
    >>
    >>
    >> Three state Attorney Generals offices are planning on charging
    >> craiglist owners with knowingly offering prostitution services.
    >>
    >> In one section titled "erotic services", like duh, that needs
    >> explanation? Ads for prostitutes in several cities can easily be
    >> found.
    >>
    >> The investigation was sparked by the murder of a craiglist advertiser
    >> in a motel. Well duh. There are hundreds of crazees out there who
    >> haunt numerous such services and may have killed others using the same
    >> method or similar. `
    >>
    >> Like LEA people can't find similar stuff on myspace, facebook, digg,
    >> twitter, and other similar sites? Sheesh. I'll bet I can come up with
    >> a hundred in no time.
    >>

    >
    > Maybe the concept isn't clear:
    > It doesn't matter if you think it's common, or if other people might do
    > it. It is illegal to participate in criminal activity by helping to
    > promote it.
    >
    > "But that guy did it" just doesn't make any difference, not legally and
    > not socially.
    >
    > If you are correct that twitter helps make criminal activities happen
    > (by providing something for them to do it), then they should also be
    > prosecuted. There is no reason not to prosecute, Richard.


    From the Electronic Frontier Foundation's response to another
    attempt to hold Craigslist liable:

    'Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, passed in 1996,
    immunizes providers of "interactive computer service" such as
    Craigslist -- website operators, ISPs, domain name registrars --
    from state criminal liability for content posted by third
    parties.'

    Mike "no grounds for prosecution" Yetto
    --
    Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitas.
    - William of Ockham
     
    Mike Yetto, May 7, 2009
    #3
  4. richard

    G. Morgan Guest

    richard wrote:

    >Three state Attorney Generals offices are planning on charging
    >craiglist owners with knowingly offering prostitution services.


    Yeah, that's pretty stupid. Are they also going to outlaw phone books because
    they have the "Escorts" section?

    This knee-jerk reaction is what politicians use to get themselves some free
    publicity. This reminds me of the asshole DA in NY that caused all the major
    ISP's to get rid of USENET.
     
    G. Morgan, May 7, 2009
    #4
  5. richard <> perpetrated this via
    news::

    > http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/05/05/craigslist.sex.ads/index.html?eref=rss
    > _topstories
    >
    >
    > Wahhhhhhhhhh!!!
    >
    >
    > Three state Attorney Generals offices are planning on charging
    > craiglist owners with knowingly offering prostitution services.
    >
    > In one section titled "erotic services", like duh, that needs
    > explanation? Ads for prostitutes in several cities can easily be
    > found.
    >
    > The investigation was sparked by the murder of a craiglist advertiser
    > in a motel. Well duh. There are hundreds of crazees out there who
    > haunt numerous such services and may have killed others using the same
    > method or similar. `
    >
    > Like LEA people can't find similar stuff on myspace, facebook, digg,
    > twitter, and other similar sites? Sheesh. I'll bet I can come up with
    > a hundred in no time.


    They ought to get 'em for false advertising too - because everytime
    I'm out of town and the girl shows up - she don't look nothin' like
    her picture.

    I say "Hey! Whaat are *YOU* -- the girl's mama?"

    But that's a whole nuther story...

    --

    I am Bucky Breeder, (*(^; , and whilst my huge stimulus package
    may not save the US economy; it sure makes the wimmins happy!

    Pay your taxes to keep US torture tactics immune from prosecution:

    http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/z/8/2/hopenosis.gif

    Repent! The end is near.... So, smoke 'em if you got 'em.
     
    Bucky Breeder, May 7, 2009
    #5
  6. richard

    XS11E Guest

    G. Morgan <> wrote:

    > This knee-jerk reaction is what politicians use to get themselves
    > some free publicity.


    Agree so far but...

    > This reminds me of the asshole DA in NY that caused all the major
    > ISP's to get rid of USENET.


    Now I have to disagree. ISPs were looking for way to raise fees w/o
    losing customers, suddenly they were handed a great excuse for a cost
    cutting measure, they dropped Usenet, didn't have to raise fees and
    told the customers it was an improvement to the ISP's services because
    the customers were being protected from kiddie porn!

    It was a very slick way for the ISPs to increase income w/o raising
    prices or losing customers!

    The DA in NY didn't 'cause' anything, he merely gave the ISPs an
    excuse!


    --
    XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project:
    http://improve-usenet.org
     
    XS11E, May 7, 2009
    #6
  7. richard

    G. Morgan Guest

    XS11E wrote:

    >The DA in NY didn't 'cause' anything, he merely gave the ISPs an
    >excuse!


    Well, true. That is a more accurate portrayal.
     
    G. Morgan, May 7, 2009
    #7
  8. richard

    Mike Yetto Guest

    Re: craiglist owners get hit by LEA for running illegal ads andservices

    Bada bing wetpixel <> bada bang:
    > In article
    ><-september.org>, Mike
    > Yetto <> wrote:
    >
    >> > If you are correct that twitter helps make criminal activities happen
    >> > (by providing something for them to do it), then they should also be
    >> > prosecuted. There is no reason not to prosecute, Richard.

    >>
    >> From the Electronic Frontier Foundation's response to another
    >> attempt to hold Craigslist liable:
    >>
    >> 'Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, passed in 1996,
    >> immunizes providers of "interactive computer service" such as
    >> Craigslist -- website operators, ISPs, domain name registrars --
    >> from state criminal liability for content posted by third
    >> parties.'
    >>
    >> Mike "no grounds for prosecution" Yetto

    >
    > "Content"
    > But Craigslist provided a place and implied consent to post such
    > notices -- which is much more than unknowingly having content put on
    > their site without their help.
    >


    They only transfer the content, they do not create or edit it.
    Would your mail-carrier be resposible for delivering a
    threatening letter?

    > "Third parties" doesn't really protect them much, either -- it means
    > that if the craigslist people have any knowledge of a person's intent
    > to commit any inappropriate act, they may have complicity.
    >


    The safe-harbour provision most certainly does. That was its
    intent.

    > More than that, if they don't allow a place to post prostitution ads,
    > those may end up somewhere else on the site, which might mean turning
    > uninterested people (almost all of us, I'm sure) away from using
    > craigslist.
    >
    > There are a lot more aspects to this than just saying the literal and
    > technical liability is supposed to be nil. Assuming a judge would agree
    > that the Section 230 above applied and covered the situation, of
    > course.


    Judges have agree to this provision and actually must do so. It
    is the law.

    Mike "no safe-harbour, no web" Yetto
    --
    Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitas.
    - William of Ockham
     
    Mike Yetto, Jun 30, 2009
    #8
  9. richard

    richard Guest

    On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:42:47 -1000, wetpixel <>
    wrote:

    >In article
    ><-september.org>, Mike
    >Yetto <> wrote:
    >
    >> > If you are correct that twitter helps make criminal activities happen
    >> > (by providing something for them to do it), then they should also be
    >> > prosecuted. There is no reason not to prosecute, Richard.

    >>
    >> From the Electronic Frontier Foundation's response to another
    >> attempt to hold Craigslist liable:
    >>
    >> 'Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, passed in 1996,
    >> immunizes providers of "interactive computer service" such as
    >> Craigslist -- website operators, ISPs, domain name registrars --
    >> from state criminal liability for content posted by third
    >> parties.'
    >>
    >> Mike "no grounds for prosecution" Yetto

    >
    >"Content"
    >But Craigslist provided a place and implied consent to post such
    >notices -- which is much more than unknowingly having content put on
    >their site without their help.
    >
    >"Third parties" doesn't really protect them much, either -- it means
    >that if the craigslist people have any knowledge of a person's intent
    >to commit any inappropriate act, they may have complicity.
    >
    >More than that, if they don't allow a place to post prostitution ads,
    >those may end up somewhere else on the site, which might mean turning
    >uninterested people (almost all of us, I'm sure) away from using
    >craigslist.
    >
    >There are a lot more aspects to this than just saying the literal and
    >technical liability is supposed to be nil. Assuming a judge would agree
    >that the Section 230 above applied and covered the situation, of
    >course.



    If the owners of craiglist fail to remove illegal ads and services,
    then they could possibly be held criminally liable. At least ebay
    takes down any illegal content.

    Dennis Vaco, predecessor of Major Cuomo of NY, once tried filing
    charges against two usenet services for harboring child pornography.
    He lost the cases.

    If craiglist fails to remove the illegal ads, then they should be
    prosecuted.
     
    richard, Jun 30, 2009
    #9
  10. richard

    richard Guest

    On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:17:39 -0400, Mike Yetto <>
    wrote:

    >Bada bing wetpixel <> bada bang:
    >> In article
    >><-september.org>, Mike
    >> Yetto <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> > If you are correct that twitter helps make criminal activities happen
    >>> > (by providing something for them to do it), then they should also be
    >>> > prosecuted. There is no reason not to prosecute, Richard.
    >>>
    >>> From the Electronic Frontier Foundation's response to another
    >>> attempt to hold Craigslist liable:
    >>>
    >>> 'Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, passed in 1996,
    >>> immunizes providers of "interactive computer service" such as
    >>> Craigslist -- website operators, ISPs, domain name registrars --
    >>> from state criminal liability for content posted by third
    >>> parties.'
    >>>
    >>> Mike "no grounds for prosecution" Yetto

    >>
    >> "Content"
    >> But Craigslist provided a place and implied consent to post such
    >> notices -- which is much more than unknowingly having content put on
    >> their site without their help.
    >>

    >
    >They only transfer the content, they do not create or edit it.
    >Would your mail-carrier be resposible for delivering a
    >threatening letter?


    No but it's illegal to use the US mail for that purpose.
    >
    >> "Third parties" doesn't really protect them much, either -- it means
    >> that if the craigslist people have any knowledge of a person's intent
    >> to commit any inappropriate act, they may have complicity.
    >>

    >
    >The safe-harbour provision most certainly does. That was its
    >intent.


    As long as the owner does his part and removes what is illegal.

    >
    >> More than that, if they don't allow a place to post prostitution ads,
    >> those may end up somewhere else on the site, which might mean turning
    >> uninterested people (almost all of us, I'm sure) away from using
    >> craigslist.
    >>
    >> There are a lot more aspects to this than just saying the literal and
    >> technical liability is supposed to be nil. Assuming a judge would agree
    >> that the Section 230 above applied and covered the situation, of
    >> course.

    >
    >Judges have agree to this provision and actually must do so. It
    >is the law.
    >
    >Mike "no safe-harbour, no web" Yetto
     
    richard, Jun 30, 2009
    #10
  11. richard

    Mike Yetto Guest

    Re: craiglist owners get hit by LEA for running illegal ads andservices

    Bada bing richard <> bada bang:
    > On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:17:39 -0400, Mike Yetto <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Bada bing wetpixel <> bada bang:
    >>> In article
    >>><-september.org>, Mike
    >>> Yetto <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> "Content"
    >>> But Craigslist provided a place and implied consent to post such
    >>> notices -- which is much more than unknowingly having content put on
    >>> their site without their help.
    >>>

    >>
    >>They only transfer the content, they do not create or edit it.
    >>Would your mail-carrier be resposible for delivering a
    >>threatening letter?

    >
    > No but it's illegal to use the US mail for that purpose.


    Did you miss that I just made that point?

    >>
    >>> "Third parties" doesn't really protect them much, either -- it means
    >>> that if the craigslist people have any knowledge of a person's intent
    >>> to commit any inappropriate act, they may have complicity.
    >>>

    >>
    >>The safe-harbour provision most certainly does. That was its
    >>intent.

    >
    > As long as the owner does his part and removes what is illegal.
    >>>> > If you are correct that twitter helps make criminal activities happen
    >>>> > (by providing something for them to do it), then they should also be
    >>>> > prosecuted. There is no reason not to prosecute, Richard.
    >>>>
    >>>> From the Electronic Frontier Foundation's response to another
    >>>> attempt to hold Craigslist liable:
    >>>>
    >>>> 'Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, passed in 1996,
    >>>> immunizes providers of "interactive computer service" such as
    >>>> Craigslist -- website operators, ISPs, domain name registrars --
    >>>> from state criminal liability for content posted by third
    >>>> parties.'
    >>>>
    >>>> Mike "no grounds for prosecution" Yetto
    >>>

    >


    When the carrier is notified of the illegal or infringing content
    it must be removed in a reasonable timeframe. The carrier is not
    responsible for finding every problem.

    Mike "so *that's* how you got your nom d'net" Yetto
    --
    Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitas.
    - William of Ockham
     
    Mike Yetto, Jun 30, 2009
    #11
  12. richard

    Mike Yetto Guest

    Re: craiglist owners get hit by LEA for running illegal ads andservices

    Bada bing richard <> bada bang:
    > Dennis Vaco, predecessor of Major Cuomo of NY, once tried filing
    > charges against two usenet services for harboring child pornography.
    > He lost the cases.
    >


    Who is Major Cuomo?

    Mike "or Major Deegan, for that matter" Yetto
    --
    Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitas.
    - William of Ockham
     
    Mike Yetto, Jun 30, 2009
    #12
  13. richard

    Evan Platt Guest

    On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:53:12 -0400, Mike Yetto <>
    wrote:

    >Did you miss that I just made that point?


    Look who you're talking to.. .:)

    >When the carrier is notified of the illegal or infringing content
    >it must be removed in a reasonable timeframe. The carrier is not
    >responsible for finding every problem.


    RtS seems to know quite a bit about every sting against pedophiles
    that goes on... And so does Weirdo Scott.....
    --
    To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious from my e-mail address.
     
    Evan Platt, Jul 1, 2009
    #13
  14. richard

    Mike Yetto Guest

    Re: craiglist owners get hit by LEA for running illegal ads andservices

    Bada bing Evan Platt <> bada bang:
    > On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:53:12 -0400, Mike Yetto <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Did you miss that I just made that point?

    >
    > Look who you're talking to.. .:)
    >


    It occured to me that it might be a miscommunication on my end,
    but all communications seemed to be missed on his.

    Mike "right, why *did* I bother?" Yetto
    --
    Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitas.
    - William of Ockham
     
    Mike Yetto, Jul 1, 2009
    #14
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