cpu upgrade advice please?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by risc, Feb 12, 2007.

  1. risc

    risc Guest

    I am looking to build a new machine on a low tight budget and so cannot
    consider either of the new cpu's from intel & amd i.e the core 2 and the x2
    respectively. Using the cpu charts on toms hardware guide I can see that the
    pentium d 820 is by far the best choice in terms of the type of performance
    I want, far better than the price equivalent amd cpu but what worries me is
    all the stuff i have heard about heat problems with the intel chips, despite
    the hours i have spent so far trying to find out about this i am really none
    the wiser, I get the impression that it was more the standard p4's of higher
    clock speeds that were the problem, an archive search of nz.comp on the
    pentium d cpu and heat turned up zero hits so can I assume there were no
    real issues with this cpu in regards to heat, I understand that it ran
    hotter than the amd's but as long as it did not have problems with
    overheating with standard cooling solutions etc..., instability, throttling
    down because of heat.

    Anyhow after spending much time trying to clarify this issue with my own
    searches I am now hoping I can get some good advice here because my own
    searches have been of little help, so if anyone has any good or bad
    practical experience with the pentium d 820 I would really appreciate
    hearing about it. By the way my current cpu is an ancient pentium3 500, so
    that has been my last experience with cpu's etc... so this is why I need
    some advice from people with more recent experience.
     
    risc, Feb 12, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. risc

    impossible Guest

    "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message news:45d0f018$...
    >I am looking to build a new machine on a low tight budget and so
    >cannot
    > consider either of the new cpu's from intel & amd i.e the core 2 and
    > the x2
    > respectively. Using the cpu charts on toms hardware guide I can see
    > that the
    > pentium d 820 is by far the best choice in terms of the type of
    > performance
    > I want, far better than the price equivalent amd cpu but what
    > worries me is
    > all the stuff i have heard about heat problems with the intel chips,
    > despite
    > the hours i have spent so far trying to find out about this i am
    > really none
    > the wiser, I get the impression that it was more the standard p4's
    > of higher
    > clock speeds that were the problem, an archive search of nz.comp on
    > the
    > pentium d cpu and heat turned up zero hits so can I assume there
    > were no
    > real issues with this cpu in regards to heat, I understand that it
    > ran
    > hotter than the amd's but as long as it did not have problems with
    > overheating with standard cooling solutions etc..., instability,
    > throttling
    > down because of heat.
    >
    > Anyhow after spending much time trying to clarify this issue with my
    > own
    > searches I am now hoping I can get some good advice here because my
    > own
    > searches have been of little help, so if anyone has any good or bad
    > practical experience with the pentium d 820 I would really
    > appreciate
    > hearing about it. By the way my current cpu is an ancient pentium3
    > 500, so
    > that has been my last experience with cpu's etc... so this is why I
    > need
    > some advice from people with more recent experience.
    >


    I've never heard of any stability issues with the Pentium D. But power
    consumption is *very high* for the early models like the 820 --
    higher, for example, than a Pentium 4 3000. So be sure that your
    fan/heatsink is properly installed and that your box has generally
    good ventilation -- and avoid the temptation to overclock, if that's
    even possible with these chips. In the brief interlude before the X2s
    and Core2 Duos came online, the Pentium D's were getting pretty good
    reviews, performance-wise, so if you've gotten a good price and aren't
    too concerned about power consumption, then you'll probably be happy
    with your choice.
     
    impossible, Feb 13, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. risc

    impossible Guest

    "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > "impossible" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message
    >> news:45d0f018$...
    >> >I am looking to build a new machine on a low tight budget and so
    >> >cannot
    >> > consider either of the new cpu's from intel & amd i.e the core 2
    >> > and
    >> > the x2
    >> > respectively. Using the cpu charts on toms hardware guide I can
    >> > see
    >> > that the
    >> > pentium d 820 is by far the best choice in terms of the type of
    >> > performance
    >> > I want, far better than the price equivalent amd cpu but what
    >> > worries me is
    >> > all the stuff i have heard about heat problems with the intel
    >> > chips,
    >> > despite
    >> > the hours i have spent so far trying to find out about this i am
    >> > really none
    >> > the wiser, I get the impression that it was more the standard
    >> > p4's
    >> > of higher
    >> > clock speeds that were the problem, an archive search of nz.comp
    >> > on
    >> > the
    >> > pentium d cpu and heat turned up zero hits so can I assume there
    >> > were no
    >> > real issues with this cpu in regards to heat, I understand that
    >> > it
    >> > ran
    >> > hotter than the amd's but as long as it did not have problems
    >> > with
    >> > overheating with standard cooling solutions etc..., instability,
    >> > throttling
    >> > down because of heat.
    >> >
    >> > Anyhow after spending much time trying to clarify this issue with
    >> > my
    >> > own
    >> > searches I am now hoping I can get some good advice here because
    >> > my
    >> > own
    >> > searches have been of little help, so if anyone has any good or
    >> > bad
    >> > practical experience with the pentium d 820 I would really
    >> > appreciate
    >> > hearing about it. By the way my current cpu is an ancient
    >> > pentium3
    >> > 500, so
    >> > that has been my last experience with cpu's etc... so this is why
    >> > I
    >> > need
    >> > some advice from people with more recent experience.
    >> >

    >>
    >> I've never heard of any stability issues with the Pentium D. But
    >> power
    >> consumption is *very high* for the early models like the 820 --
    >> higher, for example, than a Pentium 4 3000. So be sure that your
    >> fan/heatsink is properly installed and that your box has generally
    >> good ventilation -- and avoid the temptation to overclock, if
    >> that's
    >> even possible with these chips. In the brief interlude before the
    >> X2s
    >> and Core2 Duos came online, the Pentium D's were getting pretty
    >> good
    >> reviews, performance-wise, so if you've gotten a good price and
    >> aren't
    >> too concerned about power consumption, then you'll probably be
    >> happy
    >> with your choice.
    >>

    >
    > Thanks, I just don't want to have to worry about non-standard
    > cooling
    > solutions, i.e I want it to be fine with the stock standard cpu
    > heatsink and
    > fan and for the case not to require anymore cooling than is normal,
    > that
    > said i don't really know what is normal these days, with my p3 500
    > cpu I
    > don't need any case fans just the fan on the powersupply and cpu, is
    > a case
    > fan a necessity these days? I have heard lot's of murmurings in
    > recent times
    > about problems keeping modern cpu's cool, cases needing special
    > ducting and
    > maybe even water cooling, i don't want to have to resort to these
    > means. I
    > should say that I don't plan to put a high power graphics card in, I
    > wonder
    > if it is the use of multiple high power graphics cards that have led
    > to the
    > cooling problems i have heard about rather than the cpu, I will
    > probably
    > just stick to the motherboards onboard graphics.
    >
    >


    Without at least one case fan, you're probably asking for trouble with
    almost any cpu these days. A standard fan/heatsink asseembly can do
    the job of moving heat directly away from the cpu itself, but unless
    you have some way to circulate cooler air into the box, the ambient
    temperature will just keep on climbing, and over time the chances of
    component failure -- cpu, gpu, hard drive -- can't help but increase.
    The power-supply fan doesn't compensate at all since it's designed (at
    best) to move just enough air directly away from the psu to keep that
    component from failing -- meanwhile more heat radiates away from the
    psu into your box. Depending on how your box is constructed, you
    could always consider leaving one panel off and so circulate the air
    "naturally" :) But there is an obvious hazard in doing this, so I
    really wouldn't recommend it. Better to bite the bullet and either
    install a case fan (if there's a cutout provided for this with the
    box) or consider getting a new case altogether. I realize you're on a
    tight budget, but even the cheapest new cases nowadays will come
    equipped with suitable ventilation -- plus you'll almost certainly end
    up with a more rugged power supply than you have now, which would be a
    very good thing for overall stability.
     
    impossible, Feb 13, 2007
    #3
  4. risc

    risc Guest

    "impossible" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message news:...
    > >
    > > "impossible" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >> "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message
    > >> news:45d0f018$...
    > >> >I am looking to build a new machine on a low tight budget and so
    > >> >cannot
    > >> > consider either of the new cpu's from intel & amd i.e the core 2
    > >> > and
    > >> > the x2
    > >> > respectively. Using the cpu charts on toms hardware guide I can
    > >> > see
    > >> > that the
    > >> > pentium d 820 is by far the best choice in terms of the type of
    > >> > performance
    > >> > I want, far better than the price equivalent amd cpu but what
    > >> > worries me is
    > >> > all the stuff i have heard about heat problems with the intel
    > >> > chips,
    > >> > despite
    > >> > the hours i have spent so far trying to find out about this i am
    > >> > really none
    > >> > the wiser, I get the impression that it was more the standard
    > >> > p4's
    > >> > of higher
    > >> > clock speeds that were the problem, an archive search of nz.comp
    > >> > on
    > >> > the
    > >> > pentium d cpu and heat turned up zero hits so can I assume there
    > >> > were no
    > >> > real issues with this cpu in regards to heat, I understand that
    > >> > it
    > >> > ran
    > >> > hotter than the amd's but as long as it did not have problems
    > >> > with
    > >> > overheating with standard cooling solutions etc..., instability,
    > >> > throttling
    > >> > down because of heat.
    > >> >
    > >> > Anyhow after spending much time trying to clarify this issue with
    > >> > my
    > >> > own
    > >> > searches I am now hoping I can get some good advice here because
    > >> > my
    > >> > own
    > >> > searches have been of little help, so if anyone has any good or
    > >> > bad
    > >> > practical experience with the pentium d 820 I would really
    > >> > appreciate
    > >> > hearing about it. By the way my current cpu is an ancient
    > >> > pentium3
    > >> > 500, so
    > >> > that has been my last experience with cpu's etc... so this is why
    > >> > I
    > >> > need
    > >> > some advice from people with more recent experience.
    > >> >
    > >>
    > >> I've never heard of any stability issues with the Pentium D. But
    > >> power
    > >> consumption is *very high* for the early models like the 820 --
    > >> higher, for example, than a Pentium 4 3000. So be sure that your
    > >> fan/heatsink is properly installed and that your box has generally
    > >> good ventilation -- and avoid the temptation to overclock, if
    > >> that's
    > >> even possible with these chips. In the brief interlude before the
    > >> X2s
    > >> and Core2 Duos came online, the Pentium D's were getting pretty
    > >> good
    > >> reviews, performance-wise, so if you've gotten a good price and
    > >> aren't
    > >> too concerned about power consumption, then you'll probably be
    > >> happy
    > >> with your choice.
    > >>

    > >
    > > Thanks, I just don't want to have to worry about non-standard
    > > cooling
    > > solutions, i.e I want it to be fine with the stock standard cpu
    > > heatsink and
    > > fan and for the case not to require anymore cooling than is normal,
    > > that
    > > said i don't really know what is normal these days, with my p3 500
    > > cpu I
    > > don't need any case fans just the fan on the powersupply and cpu, is
    > > a case
    > > fan a necessity these days? I have heard lot's of murmurings in
    > > recent times
    > > about problems keeping modern cpu's cool, cases needing special
    > > ducting and
    > > maybe even water cooling, i don't want to have to resort to these
    > > means. I
    > > should say that I don't plan to put a high power graphics card in, I
    > > wonder
    > > if it is the use of multiple high power graphics cards that have led
    > > to the
    > > cooling problems i have heard about rather than the cpu, I will
    > > probably
    > > just stick to the motherboards onboard graphics.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Without at least one case fan, you're probably asking for trouble with
    > almost any cpu these days. A standard fan/heatsink asseembly can do
    > the job of moving heat directly away from the cpu itself, but unless
    > you have some way to circulate cooler air into the box, the ambient
    > temperature will just keep on climbing, and over time the chances of
    > component failure -- cpu, gpu, hard drive -- can't help but increase.
    > The power-supply fan doesn't compensate at all since it's designed (at
    > best) to move just enough air directly away from the psu to keep that
    > component from failing -- meanwhile more heat radiates away from the
    > psu into your box. Depending on how your box is constructed, you
    > could always consider leaving one panel off and so circulate the air
    > "naturally" :) But there is an obvious hazard in doing this, so I
    > really wouldn't recommend it. Better to bite the bullet and either
    > install a case fan (if there's a cutout provided for this with the
    > box) or consider getting a new case altogether. I realize you're on a
    > tight budget, but even the cheapest new cases nowadays will come
    > equipped with suitable ventilation -- plus you'll almost certainly end
    > up with a more rugged power supply than you have now, which would be a
    > very good thing for overall stability.
    >


    Thanks, that clears some things up.
    I am still confused over whether the pentium d 820 is the way to go, going
    by toms hardware cpu charts it certainly is but this article I just found
    tells a different story http://www.manicgeeks.com/viewstory.php?id=137
    Of course I would need to find more than one person saying this because you
    can never know whether they just stuffed up in someway.
     
    risc, Feb 13, 2007
    #4
  5. risc

    risc Guest

    "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > "impossible" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message news:...
    > > >
    > > > "impossible" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > >> "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message
    > > >> news:45d0f018$...
    > > >> >I am looking to build a new machine on a low tight budget and so
    > > >> >cannot
    > > >> > consider either of the new cpu's from intel & amd i.e the core 2
    > > >> > and
    > > >> > the x2
    > > >> > respectively. Using the cpu charts on toms hardware guide I can
    > > >> > see
    > > >> > that the
    > > >> > pentium d 820 is by far the best choice in terms of the type of
    > > >> > performance
    > > >> > I want, far better than the price equivalent amd cpu but what
    > > >> > worries me is
    > > >> > all the stuff i have heard about heat problems with the intel
    > > >> > chips,
    > > >> > despite
    > > >> > the hours i have spent so far trying to find out about this i am
    > > >> > really none
    > > >> > the wiser, I get the impression that it was more the standard
    > > >> > p4's
    > > >> > of higher
    > > >> > clock speeds that were the problem, an archive search of nz.comp
    > > >> > on
    > > >> > the
    > > >> > pentium d cpu and heat turned up zero hits so can I assume there
    > > >> > were no
    > > >> > real issues with this cpu in regards to heat, I understand that
    > > >> > it
    > > >> > ran
    > > >> > hotter than the amd's but as long as it did not have problems
    > > >> > with
    > > >> > overheating with standard cooling solutions etc..., instability,
    > > >> > throttling
    > > >> > down because of heat.
    > > >> >
    > > >> > Anyhow after spending much time trying to clarify this issue with
    > > >> > my
    > > >> > own
    > > >> > searches I am now hoping I can get some good advice here because
    > > >> > my
    > > >> > own
    > > >> > searches have been of little help, so if anyone has any good or
    > > >> > bad
    > > >> > practical experience with the pentium d 820 I would really
    > > >> > appreciate
    > > >> > hearing about it. By the way my current cpu is an ancient
    > > >> > pentium3
    > > >> > 500, so
    > > >> > that has been my last experience with cpu's etc... so this is why
    > > >> > I
    > > >> > need
    > > >> > some advice from people with more recent experience.
    > > >> >
    > > >>
    > > >> I've never heard of any stability issues with the Pentium D. But
    > > >> power
    > > >> consumption is *very high* for the early models like the 820 --
    > > >> higher, for example, than a Pentium 4 3000. So be sure that your
    > > >> fan/heatsink is properly installed and that your box has generally
    > > >> good ventilation -- and avoid the temptation to overclock, if
    > > >> that's
    > > >> even possible with these chips. In the brief interlude before the
    > > >> X2s
    > > >> and Core2 Duos came online, the Pentium D's were getting pretty
    > > >> good
    > > >> reviews, performance-wise, so if you've gotten a good price and
    > > >> aren't
    > > >> too concerned about power consumption, then you'll probably be
    > > >> happy
    > > >> with your choice.
    > > >>
    > > >
    > > > Thanks, I just don't want to have to worry about non-standard
    > > > cooling
    > > > solutions, i.e I want it to be fine with the stock standard cpu
    > > > heatsink and
    > > > fan and for the case not to require anymore cooling than is normal,
    > > > that
    > > > said i don't really know what is normal these days, with my p3 500
    > > > cpu I
    > > > don't need any case fans just the fan on the powersupply and cpu, is
    > > > a case
    > > > fan a necessity these days? I have heard lot's of murmurings in
    > > > recent times
    > > > about problems keeping modern cpu's cool, cases needing special
    > > > ducting and
    > > > maybe even water cooling, i don't want to have to resort to these
    > > > means. I
    > > > should say that I don't plan to put a high power graphics card in, I
    > > > wonder
    > > > if it is the use of multiple high power graphics cards that have led
    > > > to the
    > > > cooling problems i have heard about rather than the cpu, I will
    > > > probably
    > > > just stick to the motherboards onboard graphics.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > > Without at least one case fan, you're probably asking for trouble with
    > > almost any cpu these days. A standard fan/heatsink asseembly can do
    > > the job of moving heat directly away from the cpu itself, but unless
    > > you have some way to circulate cooler air into the box, the ambient
    > > temperature will just keep on climbing, and over time the chances of
    > > component failure -- cpu, gpu, hard drive -- can't help but increase.
    > > The power-supply fan doesn't compensate at all since it's designed (at
    > > best) to move just enough air directly away from the psu to keep that
    > > component from failing -- meanwhile more heat radiates away from the
    > > psu into your box. Depending on how your box is constructed, you
    > > could always consider leaving one panel off and so circulate the air
    > > "naturally" :) But there is an obvious hazard in doing this, so I
    > > really wouldn't recommend it. Better to bite the bullet and either
    > > install a case fan (if there's a cutout provided for this with the
    > > box) or consider getting a new case altogether. I realize you're on a
    > > tight budget, but even the cheapest new cases nowadays will come
    > > equipped with suitable ventilation -- plus you'll almost certainly end
    > > up with a more rugged power supply than you have now, which would be a
    > > very good thing for overall stability.
    > >

    >
    > Thanks, that clears some things up.
    > I am still confused over whether the pentium d 820 is the way to go, going
    > by toms hardware cpu charts it certainly is but this article I just found
    > tells a different story http://www.manicgeeks.com/viewstory.php?id=137
    > Of course I would need to find more than one person saying this because

    you
    > can never know whether they just stuffed up in someway.
    >


    And then you get sites like this
    http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?id=391 saying the 820 does not
    really get hot, all bloody confusing, I don't seem to be able to get a
    definite answer on this as I keep seeing contradictory statements on
    different websites, makes you wonder about the reliability of some of the
    info out there.
     
    risc, Feb 13, 2007
    #5
  6. risc

    risc Guest

    "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > "impossible" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message news:...
    > > >
    > > > "impossible" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > >> "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message
    > > >> news:45d0f018$...
    > > >> >I am looking to build a new machine on a low tight budget and so
    > > >> >cannot
    > > >> > consider either of the new cpu's from intel & amd i.e the core 2
    > > >> > and
    > > >> > the x2
    > > >> > respectively. Using the cpu charts on toms hardware guide I can
    > > >> > see
    > > >> > that the
    > > >> > pentium d 820 is by far the best choice in terms of the type of
    > > >> > performance
    > > >> > I want, far better than the price equivalent amd cpu but what
    > > >> > worries me is
    > > >> > all the stuff i have heard about heat problems with the intel
    > > >> > chips,
    > > >> > despite
    > > >> > the hours i have spent so far trying to find out about this i am
    > > >> > really none
    > > >> > the wiser, I get the impression that it was more the standard
    > > >> > p4's
    > > >> > of higher
    > > >> > clock speeds that were the problem, an archive search of nz.comp
    > > >> > on
    > > >> > the
    > > >> > pentium d cpu and heat turned up zero hits so can I assume there
    > > >> > were no
    > > >> > real issues with this cpu in regards to heat, I understand that
    > > >> > it
    > > >> > ran
    > > >> > hotter than the amd's but as long as it did not have problems
    > > >> > with
    > > >> > overheating with standard cooling solutions etc..., instability,
    > > >> > throttling
    > > >> > down because of heat.
    > > >> >
    > > >> > Anyhow after spending much time trying to clarify this issue with
    > > >> > my
    > > >> > own
    > > >> > searches I am now hoping I can get some good advice here because
    > > >> > my
    > > >> > own
    > > >> > searches have been of little help, so if anyone has any good or
    > > >> > bad
    > > >> > practical experience with the pentium d 820 I would really
    > > >> > appreciate
    > > >> > hearing about it. By the way my current cpu is an ancient
    > > >> > pentium3
    > > >> > 500, so
    > > >> > that has been my last experience with cpu's etc... so this is why
    > > >> > I
    > > >> > need
    > > >> > some advice from people with more recent experience.
    > > >> >
    > > >>
    > > >> I've never heard of any stability issues with the Pentium D. But
    > > >> power
    > > >> consumption is *very high* for the early models like the 820 --
    > > >> higher, for example, than a Pentium 4 3000. So be sure that your
    > > >> fan/heatsink is properly installed and that your box has generally
    > > >> good ventilation -- and avoid the temptation to overclock, if
    > > >> that's
    > > >> even possible with these chips. In the brief interlude before the
    > > >> X2s
    > > >> and Core2 Duos came online, the Pentium D's were getting pretty
    > > >> good
    > > >> reviews, performance-wise, so if you've gotten a good price and
    > > >> aren't
    > > >> too concerned about power consumption, then you'll probably be
    > > >> happy
    > > >> with your choice.
    > > >>
    > > >
    > > > Thanks, I just don't want to have to worry about non-standard
    > > > cooling
    > > > solutions, i.e I want it to be fine with the stock standard cpu
    > > > heatsink and
    > > > fan and for the case not to require anymore cooling than is normal,
    > > > that
    > > > said i don't really know what is normal these days, with my p3 500
    > > > cpu I
    > > > don't need any case fans just the fan on the powersupply and cpu, is
    > > > a case
    > > > fan a necessity these days? I have heard lot's of murmurings in
    > > > recent times
    > > > about problems keeping modern cpu's cool, cases needing special
    > > > ducting and
    > > > maybe even water cooling, i don't want to have to resort to these
    > > > means. I
    > > > should say that I don't plan to put a high power graphics card in, I
    > > > wonder
    > > > if it is the use of multiple high power graphics cards that have led
    > > > to the
    > > > cooling problems i have heard about rather than the cpu, I will
    > > > probably
    > > > just stick to the motherboards onboard graphics.
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > > Without at least one case fan, you're probably asking for trouble with
    > > almost any cpu these days. A standard fan/heatsink asseembly can do
    > > the job of moving heat directly away from the cpu itself, but unless
    > > you have some way to circulate cooler air into the box, the ambient
    > > temperature will just keep on climbing, and over time the chances of
    > > component failure -- cpu, gpu, hard drive -- can't help but increase.
    > > The power-supply fan doesn't compensate at all since it's designed (at
    > > best) to move just enough air directly away from the psu to keep that
    > > component from failing -- meanwhile more heat radiates away from the
    > > psu into your box. Depending on how your box is constructed, you
    > > could always consider leaving one panel off and so circulate the air
    > > "naturally" :) But there is an obvious hazard in doing this, so I
    > > really wouldn't recommend it. Better to bite the bullet and either
    > > install a case fan (if there's a cutout provided for this with the
    > > box) or consider getting a new case altogether. I realize you're on a
    > > tight budget, but even the cheapest new cases nowadays will come
    > > equipped with suitable ventilation -- plus you'll almost certainly end
    > > up with a more rugged power supply than you have now, which would be a
    > > very good thing for overall stability.
    > >

    >
    > Thanks, that clears some things up.
    > I am still confused over whether the pentium d 820 is the way to go, going
    > by toms hardware cpu charts it certainly is but this article I just found
    > tells a different story http://www.manicgeeks.com/viewstory.php?id=137
    > Of course I would need to find more than one person saying this because

    you
    > can never know whether they just stuffed up in someway.
    >


    I have found at least 2 sites that say that cpu throttling is removed from
    the 820 chip so what is the story on manicgeeks talking about?
     
    risc, Feb 13, 2007
    #6
  7. risc

    impossible Guest

    "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message news:...
    >>
    >> "impossible" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message
    >> > news:...
    >> > >
    >> > > "impossible" <> wrote in message
    >> > > news:...
    >> > >> "risc" <risc@cisc> wrote in message
    >> > >> news:45d0f018$...
    >> > >> >I am looking to build a new machine on a low tight budget and
    >> > >> >so
    >> > >> >cannot
    >> > >> > consider either of the new cpu's from intel & amd i.e the
    >> > >> > core 2
    >> > >> > and
    >> > >> > the x2
    >> > >> > respectively. Using the cpu charts on toms hardware guide I
    >> > >> > can
    >> > >> > see
    >> > >> > that the
    >> > >> > pentium d 820 is by far the best choice in terms of the type
    >> > >> > of
    >> > >> > performance
    >> > >> > I want, far better than the price equivalent amd cpu but
    >> > >> > what
    >> > >> > worries me is
    >> > >> > all the stuff i have heard about heat problems with the
    >> > >> > intel
    >> > >> > chips,
    >> > >> > despite
    >> > >> > the hours i have spent so far trying to find out about this
    >> > >> > i am
    >> > >> > really none
    >> > >> > the wiser, I get the impression that it was more the
    >> > >> > standard
    >> > >> > p4's
    >> > >> > of higher
    >> > >> > clock speeds that were the problem, an archive search of
    >> > >> > nz.comp
    >> > >> > on
    >> > >> > the
    >> > >> > pentium d cpu and heat turned up zero hits so can I assume
    >> > >> > there
    >> > >> > were no
    >> > >> > real issues with this cpu in regards to heat, I understand
    >> > >> > that
    >> > >> > it
    >> > >> > ran
    >> > >> > hotter than the amd's but as long as it did not have
    >> > >> > problems
    >> > >> > with
    >> > >> > overheating with standard cooling solutions etc...,
    >> > >> > instability,
    >> > >> > throttling
    >> > >> > down because of heat.
    >> > >> >
    >> > >> > Anyhow after spending much time trying to clarify this issue
    >> > >> > with
    >> > >> > my
    >> > >> > own
    >> > >> > searches I am now hoping I can get some good advice here
    >> > >> > because
    >> > >> > my
    >> > >> > own
    >> > >> > searches have been of little help, so if anyone has any good
    >> > >> > or
    >> > >> > bad
    >> > >> > practical experience with the pentium d 820 I would really
    >> > >> > appreciate
    >> > >> > hearing about it. By the way my current cpu is an ancient
    >> > >> > pentium3
    >> > >> > 500, so
    >> > >> > that has been my last experience with cpu's etc... so this
    >> > >> > is why
    >> > >> > I
    >> > >> > need
    >> > >> > some advice from people with more recent experience.
    >> > >> >
    >> > >>
    >> > >> I've never heard of any stability issues with the Pentium D.
    >> > >> But
    >> > >> power
    >> > >> consumption is *very high* for the early models like the
    >> > >> 820 --
    >> > >> higher, for example, than a Pentium 4 3000. So be sure that
    >> > >> your
    >> > >> fan/heatsink is properly installed and that your box has
    >> > >> generally
    >> > >> good ventilation -- and avoid the temptation to overclock, if
    >> > >> that's
    >> > >> even possible with these chips. In the brief interlude before
    >> > >> the
    >> > >> X2s
    >> > >> and Core2 Duos came online, the Pentium D's were getting
    >> > >> pretty
    >> > >> good
    >> > >> reviews, performance-wise, so if you've gotten a good price
    >> > >> and
    >> > >> aren't
    >> > >> too concerned about power consumption, then you'll probably be
    >> > >> happy
    >> > >> with your choice.
    >> > >>
    >> > >
    >> > > Thanks, I just don't want to have to worry about non-standard
    >> > > cooling
    >> > > solutions, i.e I want it to be fine with the stock standard cpu
    >> > > heatsink and
    >> > > fan and for the case not to require anymore cooling than is
    >> > > normal,
    >> > > that
    >> > > said i don't really know what is normal these days, with my p3
    >> > > 500
    >> > > cpu I
    >> > > don't need any case fans just the fan on the powersupply and
    >> > > cpu, is
    >> > > a case
    >> > > fan a necessity these days? I have heard lot's of murmurings in
    >> > > recent times
    >> > > about problems keeping modern cpu's cool, cases needing special
    >> > > ducting and
    >> > > maybe even water cooling, i don't want to have to resort to
    >> > > these
    >> > > means. I
    >> > > should say that I don't plan to put a high power graphics card
    >> > > in, I
    >> > > wonder
    >> > > if it is the use of multiple high power graphics cards that
    >> > > have led
    >> > > to the
    >> > > cooling problems i have heard about rather than the cpu, I will
    >> > > probably
    >> > > just stick to the motherboards onboard graphics.
    >> > >
    >> > >
    >> >
    >> > Without at least one case fan, you're probably asking for trouble
    >> > with
    >> > almost any cpu these days. A standard fan/heatsink asseembly can
    >> > do
    >> > the job of moving heat directly away from the cpu itself, but
    >> > unless
    >> > you have some way to circulate cooler air into the box, the
    >> > ambient
    >> > temperature will just keep on climbing, and over time the chances
    >> > of
    >> > component failure -- cpu, gpu, hard drive -- can't help but
    >> > increase.
    >> > The power-supply fan doesn't compensate at all since it's
    >> > designed (at
    >> > best) to move just enough air directly away from the psu to keep
    >> > that
    >> > component from failing -- meanwhile more heat radiates away from
    >> > the
    >> > psu into your box. Depending on how your box is constructed, you
    >> > could always consider leaving one panel off and so circulate the
    >> > air
    >> > "naturally" :) But there is an obvious hazard in doing this, so I
    >> > really wouldn't recommend it. Better to bite the bullet and
    >> > either
    >> > install a case fan (if there's a cutout provided for this with
    >> > the
    >> > box) or consider getting a new case altogether. I realize you're
    >> > on a
    >> > tight budget, but even the cheapest new cases nowadays will come
    >> > equipped with suitable ventilation -- plus you'll almost
    >> > certainly end
    >> > up with a more rugged power supply than you have now, which would
    >> > be a
    >> > very good thing for overall stability.
    >> >

    >>
    >> Thanks, that clears some things up.
    >> I am still confused over whether the pentium d 820 is the way to
    >> go, going
    >> by toms hardware cpu charts it certainly is but this article I just
    >> found
    >> tells a different story
    >> http://www.manicgeeks.com/viewstory.php?id=137
    >> Of course I would need to find more than one person saying this
    >> because

    > you
    >> can never know whether they just stuffed up in someway.
    >>

    >
    > I have found at least 2 sites that say that cpu throttling is
    > removed from
    > the 820 chip so what is the story on manicgeeks talking about?
    >
    >


    It's good to read many different opinions. But in the end, what you
    really want to see are the kind of benchmarks that Tom's Hardware and
    Anand Tech posts, because then you get to make an objective
    performance comparison. If someone's idea of "serious shortcomings" in
    cpu architecture turns out to be a real-world difference of 3% in
    running time on the sort of applications you intend to run, then you'd
    probably be justified in saying to yourself, "Who cares?"
    Alternatively, if the difference is 30%, then you really might want to
    take another look. Same goes for issues of power consumption: How many
    watts exactly? Under what conditions? These are the kind of questions
    that only well-designed benchmarks can answer. Reviews that are
    unsupported by benchmarks require a level of trust in the source that
    is often very difficult to justify.
     
    impossible, Feb 13, 2007
    #7
  8. risc

    jasen Guest

    On 2007-02-12, risc <risc@cisc> wrote:
    > I am looking to build a new machine on a low tight budget


    why? woudn't a used one work better?


    --

    Bye.
    Jasen
     
    jasen, Feb 13, 2007
    #8
  9. On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:54:43 +1300, risc wrote:

    > I am looking to build a new machine on a low tight budget and so cannot
    > consider either of the new cpu's from intel & amd i.e the core 2 and the x2
    > respectively. Using the cpu charts on toms hardware guide I can see that the
    > pentium d 820 is by far the best choice in terms of the type of performance
    > I want, far better than the price equivalent amd cpu but what worries me is
    > all the stuff i have heard about heat problems with the intel chips, despite
    > the hours i have spent so far trying to find out about this i am really none
    > the wiser, I get the impression that it was more the standard p4's of higher
    > clock speeds that were the problem, an archive search of nz.comp on the
    > pentium d cpu and heat turned up zero hits so can I assume there were no
    > real issues with this cpu in regards to heat, I understand that it ran
    > hotter than the amd's but as long as it did not have problems with
    > overheating with standard cooling solutions etc..., instability, throttling
    > down because of heat.
    >
    > Anyhow after spending much time trying to clarify this issue with my own
    > searches I am now hoping I can get some good advice here because my own
    > searches have been of little help, so if anyone has any good or bad
    > practical experience with the pentium d 820 I would really appreciate
    > hearing about it. By the way my current cpu is an ancient pentium3 500, so
    > that has been my last experience with cpu's etc... so this is why I need
    > some advice from people with more recent experience.



    AMD have recently anounced price reductions - up to nearly 40% on some
    models - across their entire range of desktop 64bit CPUs.

    Also, AMD offer better performance per watt of electricity consumed.

    What do you want? Pure clock speed (Intel)? or best value performance for
    operating cost (AMD)?


    --
    Dianthus Mimulus

    Microsoft's business practises exposed in court:
    http://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/fullstory/dsprgmnt.html#_Toc447960918
     
    Dianthus Mimulus, Feb 13, 2007
    #9
  10. risc

    impossible Guest

    "jasen" <> wrote in message
    news:eqs2hg$oup$-a-geek.org...
    > On 2007-02-12, risc <risc@cisc> wrote:
    >> I am looking to build a new machine on a low tight budget

    >
    > why? woudn't a used one work better?
    >


    Ridiculous question. Why would you assume that? The OP specified a
    Pentium D820 as his performance reference point. Just what overpriced
    chips in the second-hand, anybody's-guess-what-shape-it's-in market
    did you have in mind that would "work better"?
     
    impossible, Feb 13, 2007
    #10
  11. risc

    risc Guest

    "Dianthus Mimulus" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:54:43 +1300, risc wrote:
    >
    > > I am looking to build a new machine on a low tight budget and so cannot
    > > consider either of the new cpu's from intel & amd i.e the core 2 and the

    x2
    > > respectively. Using the cpu charts on toms hardware guide I can see that

    the
    > > pentium d 820 is by far the best choice in terms of the type of

    performance
    > > I want, far better than the price equivalent amd cpu but what worries me

    is
    > > all the stuff i have heard about heat problems with the intel chips,

    despite
    > > the hours i have spent so far trying to find out about this i am really

    none
    > > the wiser, I get the impression that it was more the standard p4's of

    higher
    > > clock speeds that were the problem, an archive search of nz.comp on the
    > > pentium d cpu and heat turned up zero hits so can I assume there were no
    > > real issues with this cpu in regards to heat, I understand that it ran
    > > hotter than the amd's but as long as it did not have problems with
    > > overheating with standard cooling solutions etc..., instability,

    throttling
    > > down because of heat.
    > >
    > > Anyhow after spending much time trying to clarify this issue with my own
    > > searches I am now hoping I can get some good advice here because my own
    > > searches have been of little help, so if anyone has any good or bad
    > > practical experience with the pentium d 820 I would really appreciate
    > > hearing about it. By the way my current cpu is an ancient pentium3 500,

    so
    > > that has been my last experience with cpu's etc... so this is why I need
    > > some advice from people with more recent experience.

    >
    >
    > AMD have recently anounced price reductions - up to nearly 40% on some
    > models - across their entire range of desktop 64bit CPUs.
    >
    > Also, AMD offer better performance per watt of electricity consumed.
    >
    > What do you want? Pure clock speed (Intel)? or best value performance for
    > operating cost (AMD)?
    >
    >


    Best value performance for operating cost, you mean the extra electricity
    cost of cents to a few dollars per year, no where near significant enough to
    be a consideration in my books. At this moment intel provide far better cost
    vs application performance at the bottom end of the market, there needs to
    be a large drop in price of their entry level to dual core to compete with
    intel on a cost basis. I presume the price reductions do not include the x2
    processors?
     
    risc, Feb 13, 2007
    #11
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