Cost of an email

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Turkey Cough, Feb 22, 2007.

  1. Turkey Cough

    Turkey Cough Guest

    Turkey Cough, Feb 22, 2007
    #1
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  2. Turkey Cough

    cucumber Guest

    On 22 Feb, 20:11, "Turkey Cough" <> wrote:
    > £6000 to send a million emails??http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6385701.stm
    >
    > It costs me nothing (above my monthly ISP charge) to send
    > an email, where does the £6,000 figure come from.


    It's a government computer system so it probably doesn't have copy and
    paste and it most certainly can't email more than one recipient at a
    time. They would have had to type each one and manually check for
    mistakes.

    They've done very well if it only cost us £6000!
    cucumber, Feb 22, 2007
    #2
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  3. Turkey Cough

    Gaz Guest

    cucumber wrote:
    > On 22 Feb, 20:11, "Turkey Cough" <> wrote:
    >> £6000 to send a million
    >> emails??http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6385701.stm
    >>
    >> It costs me nothing (above my monthly ISP charge) to send
    >> an email, where does the £6,000 figure come from.

    >
    > It's a government computer system so it probably doesn't have copy and
    > paste and it most certainly can't email more than one recipient at a
    > time. They would have had to type each one and manually check for
    > mistakes.
    >
    > They've done very well if it only cost us £6000!


    Our council, (seriously, this is true) prints out all emails for council tax
    and housing benefit queries, and then scans them back in.

    Gaz
    Gaz, Feb 22, 2007
    #3
  4. Turkey Cough

    NicHughes Guest

    On 22 Feb, 20:11, "Turkey Cough" <> wrote:
    > £6000 to send a million emails??http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6385701.stm
    >
    > It costs me nothing (above my monthly ISP charge) to send
    > an email, where does the £6,000 figure come from.



    Your ISP is essentially giving you a flat rate deal on the basis that
    you will not send out millions of emails at a time. Those few who do
    send lots of emails are essentially subsidised by the majority who do
    not but there are limits. Try it and see whether it works!

    Even so the quoted figure is probably an overestimate, unless they got
    some big consultancy to do it for them. It probably cost a few hundred
    in bandwidth fees.

    --
    Nic
    NicHughes, Feb 22, 2007
    #4
  5. Turkey Cough

    Turkey Cough Guest

    Nonsense the email would only be a few kB in size thus sending
    1 million would use a bandwidth of a gew gigabytes. I have unlimited
    bandwidth, so ISP's have a 40 gig cap (I would struggle to use that).
    So it could easilly be done for less than £20, probably less than £10.
    In reality nothing as I am sure this ammount of data woud have no effect
    on their existing ISP charges.


    "NicHughes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On 22 Feb, 20:11, "Turkey Cough" <> wrote:
    > £6000 to send a million
    > emails??http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6385701.stm
    >
    > It costs me nothing (above my monthly ISP charge) to send
    > an email, where does the £6,000 figure come from.



    Your ISP is essentially giving you a flat rate deal on the basis that
    you will not send out millions of emails at a time. Those few who do
    send lots of emails are essentially subsidised by the majority who do
    not but there are limits. Try it and see whether it works!

    Even so the quoted figure is probably an overestimate, unless they got
    some big consultancy to do it for them. It probably cost a few hundred
    in bandwidth fees.

    --
    Nic
    Turkey Cough, Feb 22, 2007
    #5
  6. Turkey Cough

    David R Guest

    "Turkey Cough" <> wrote in message
    news:lrpDh.29687$...
    > Nonsense the email would only be a few kB in size thus sending
    > 1 million would use a bandwidth of a gew gigabytes. I have unlimited
    > bandwidth, so ISP's have a 40 gig cap (I would struggle to use that).
    > So it could easilly be done for less than £20, probably less than £10.
    > In reality nothing as I am sure this ammount of data woud have no effect
    > on their existing ISP charges.


    Business rates are much stricter though, and 'unlimited' business tariff
    would also be pricey.

    However, someone *is* making a nice profit there. But it's the government;
    they pay over the odds for things most of the time, especially when it comes
    to I.T.
    David R, Feb 22, 2007
    #6
  7. Turkey Cough

    GB Guest

    "David R" <> wrote in message


    Why are you lot fixated on the bandwidth cost?

    It's quite difficult to send 1 million emails in one go, isn't it? You can't
    just stuff 1 million addresses into the bcc box in OE and press send, can
    you? So, you need special software to send that many. Then, you need to
    worry about whether they'll all be filtered out as spam by your ISP. Plus,
    can your ISP's system cope with 1 million extra emails going through?

    Also, you presumably want them all to arrive fairly soon. Sending them all
    individually at the rate of one a second, it would take about 12 weeks to
    send them all.
    GB, Feb 23, 2007
    #7
  8. Turkey Cough

    GB Guest

    Oops, make that 12 days, not 12 weeks.
    GB, Feb 23, 2007
    #8
  9. Turkey Cough

    Doh Guest

    Turkey Cough wrote:
    > £6000 to send a million emails??
    > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6385701.stm
    >
    > It costs me nothing (above my monthly ISP charge) to send
    > an email, where does the £6,000 figure come from.
    >
    >

    From an arsehole called Chris Lake who "editor of E-consultancy.com
    which advises people on internet strategy."

    "Last week I had lunch with someone who sends out 180,000 a week as a
    newsletter, which cost him £600," he says. "That would make it £6,000,
    but it could be much less or much more. Plus there are the resources to
    craft it and put it together."

    What a complete twat! Why does anyone let him near their strategy.

    1) He believes figures given to him over lunch (as opposed to seeing
    hard facts such as an invoice).
    2) He then believes that 10 times as many would cost 10 times as much!

    The £600 would be a fairly reasonable fee for a couple of days work for
    someone to create the mail and send it - whether it was 180 or 18 million!
    Doh, Feb 23, 2007
    #9
  10. Turkey Cough

    Turkey Cough Guest

    "David R" <> wrote in message
    news:d7qDh.29809$...
    > "Turkey Cough" <> wrote in message
    > news:lrpDh.29687$...
    >> Nonsense the email would only be a few kB in size thus sending
    >> 1 million would use a bandwidth of a gew gigabytes. I have unlimited
    >> bandwidth, so ISP's have a 40 gig cap (I would struggle to use that).
    >> So it could easilly be done for less than £20, probably less than £10.
    >> In reality nothing as I am sure this ammount of data woud have no effect
    >> on their existing ISP charges.

    >
    > Business rates are much stricter though,


    If they have a business rate then they will have a buisness package
    which will already able to cope with a few gigs of data more thn
    comfortably.

    > and 'unlimited' business tariff would also be pricey.
    >
    > However, someone *is* making a nice profit there. But it's the government;
    > they pay over the odds for things most of the time, especially when it
    > comes to I.T.
    >
    Turkey Cough, Feb 23, 2007
    #10
  11. Turkey Cough

    Doh Guest

    GB wrote:
    > "David R" <> wrote in message
    >
    >
    > Why are you lot fixated on the bandwidth cost?
    >
    > It's quite difficult to send 1 million emails in one go, isn't it? You can't
    > just stuff 1 million addresses into the bcc box in OE and press send, can
    > you? So, you need special software to send that many. Then, you need to
    > worry about whether they'll all be filtered out as spam by your ISP. Plus,
    > can your ISP's system cope with 1 million extra emails going through?
    >
    > Also, you presumably want them all to arrive fairly soon. Sending them all
    > individually at the rate of one a second, it would take about 12 weeks to
    > send them all.
    >
    >
    >

    How little you know.

    A (free) Linux distribution will have an email server such as Exim.

    This talks directly to the mailservers for the customers you wish to
    send to (bypassing your own ISP stmp server).

    They can easily achieve 10 emails per sec - mine does.

    Properly written utilisations claim 42 per second
    http://www.exim.org/mail-archives/exim-users/Week-of-Mon-20040503/msg00296.html

    or even
    200,000 per hour
    http://devzone.zend.com/node/view/id/937


    And you don't stuff 1 million email addresses in OE.

    I have a MYSQL database containing the email addresses and other data
    applicable to the target - each customer has a unique email (you will
    like this , this and this etc) composed and sent at 10 per second.

    Your 12 days becomes 1.2 days with my laid back system and 4 hours on
    the above revved up ones!
    Doh, Feb 23, 2007
    #11
  12. Turkey Cough

    Grappletech Guest

    > Our council, (seriously, this is true) prints out all emails for
    > council tax and housing benefit queries, and then scans them back in.




    I wonder why government agencies usually have such shitty software? I
    suppose because they hire the lowest bidders for sofware
    development/programming/maintenance? Or they maybe have in house software
    developers who suck badly at development/coding, but they can't be fired as
    easily as a private programmer.

    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
    Grappletech, Feb 23, 2007
    #12
  13. Turkey Cough

    GB Guest

    "Doh" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > How little you know.


    So true!!

    >
    > I have a MYSQL database containing the email addresses and other data
    > applicable to the target - each customer has a unique email (you will like
    > this , this and this etc) composed and sent at 10 per second.



    Out of interest, what would you charge for sending out 1.8 million emails
    from your system? Bear in mind that to get the govt contract you will
    probably have to go through an approval process that will take up say 1 - 2
    weeks of your time, without any guarantee of any work at the end of the
    process. There will also need to be some sort of audit trail to prove that
    you have actually sent all the emails. You will also need ISO 9001
    accreditation, some means of showing that the email addresses are held
    securely and securely wiped at the end of the process. You will also need an
    office, and holiday cover, so emails can be sent whenever a customer wants
    them sent.

    I suspect that for an outside contractor the fee paid of 6k is not all that
    unreasonable, although perhaps the task could be done more cheaply
    'in-house'
    GB, Feb 23, 2007
    #13
  14. Turkey Cough

    Doh Guest

    GB wrote:
    > "Doh" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >> How little you know.

    >
    > So true!!
    >
    >> I have a MYSQL database containing the email addresses and other data
    >> applicable to the target - each customer has a unique email (you will like
    >> this , this and this etc) composed and sent at 10 per second.

    >
    >
    > Out of interest, what would you charge for sending out 1.8 million emails
    > from your system? Bear in mind that to get the govt contract you will
    > probably have to go through an approval process that will take up say 1 - 2
    > weeks of your time, without any guarantee of any work at the end of the
    > process. There will also need to be some sort of audit trail to prove that
    > you have actually sent all the emails. You will also need ISO 9001
    > accreditation, some means of showing that the email addresses are held
    > securely and securely wiped at the end of the process. You will also need an
    > office, and holiday cover, so emails can be sent whenever a customer wants
    > them sent.
    >
    > I suspect that for an outside contractor the fee paid of 6k is not all that
    > unreasonable, although perhaps the task could be done more cheaply
    > 'in-house'
    >
    >
    >

    I'd do it for £600!

    Its the same work for 2 or 2 million.
    The program self audits - proof of delivery or bounce reported.

    ISO 9001 is a con - I could get accredited tommorrow for next to nothing.

    I can initiate the run from any pc in the world so could do it from the
    internet cafe in Benidorm whilst spending my £600 on a cheap holiday!
    Doh, Feb 23, 2007
    #14
  15. On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 00:25:54 -0000, GB
    <>
    was popularly supposed to have said:

    >
    > "David R" <> wrote in message
    >
    >
    > Why are you lot fixated on the bandwidth cost?


    Because this is the limiting factor.

    > It's quite difficult to send 1 million emails in one go, isn't it? You can't
    > just stuff 1 million addresses into the bcc box in OE and press send, can
    > you?


    No, you need to engage Mr Brain before starting off.

    > So, you need special software to send that many.


    Special software which the likes of myself and no doubt many other
    people on this group could knock together in Perl, C or no doubt many
    other languages in about twenty minutes, including the fancy exception
    processing to get the right honorific for peoples' names.

    > Then, you need to
    > worry about whether they'll all be filtered out as spam by your ISP. Plus,
    > can your ISP's system cope with 1 million extra emails going through?


    I would expect that the ISP the Government is using is well used to
    seeing a shedload of emails going in and out of it, and would not turn a
    hair at the sight of lots of emails going out. Rather, I suppose it
    would be a refreshing change, since Tony no doubt gets mailbombed on a
    regular basis.

    Rest assured, the Government ISP will be able to cope, though it will
    have cost you, the taxpayer, about ten or twenty times what it would
    cost a normal ISP to achieve the same effect.

    > Also, you presumably want them all to arrive fairly soon. Sending them all
    > individually at the rate of one a second, it would take about 12 weeks to
    > send them all.


    Never heard of multi-threading?

    Start off several dozen scripts, each set to do a segment of the
    workload and to update the database as it does so (and with luck this
    won't crash the database).

    Then just let it run.


    --
    Dan Holdsworth PhD
    By caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, By the beans of Java
    do thoughts acquire speed, hands acquire shaking, the shaking
    becomes a warning, By caffeine alone do I set my mind in motion
    Dan Holdsworth, Feb 24, 2007
    #15
  16. Turkey Cough

    NicHughes Guest

    On 22 Feb, 23:12, "Turkey Cough" <> wrote:
    > Nonsense the email would only be a few kB in size thus sending
    > 1 million would use a bandwidth of a gew gigabytes. I have unlimited
    > bandwidth, so ISP's have a 40 gig cap (I would struggle to use that).
    > So it could easilly be done for less than £20, probably less than £10.
    > In reality nothing as I am sure this ammount of data woud have no effect
    > on their existing ISP charges.
    >


    You need a server to send the emails - or were you thinking of trying
    to send them manually and at what labour cost?

    You need to set things up in certain ways to avoid your emails
    appearing as spam and getting yourself spam-blocked before most of the
    emails have been propogated. As I said, if you think you can send this
    many emails off a personal account try it and see if it works.

    All of this is a normal part of a commercial offering which does cost
    more than the pure bandwidth although surely that is part of the cost.

    --
    Nic
    NicHughes, Feb 24, 2007
    #16
  17. Turkey Cough

    Turkey Cough Guest

    "NicHughes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On 22 Feb, 23:12, "Turkey Cough" <> wrote:
    > Nonsense the email would only be a few kB in size thus sending
    > 1 million would use a bandwidth of a gew gigabytes. I have unlimited
    > bandwidth, so ISP's have a 40 gig cap (I would struggle to use that).
    > So it could easilly be done for less than £20, probably less than £10.
    > In reality nothing as I am sure this ammount of data woud have no effect
    > on their existing ISP charges.
    >


    You need a server to send the emails - or were you thinking of trying
    to send them manually and at what labour cost?

    You need to set things up in certain ways to avoid your emails
    appearing as spam and getting yourself spam-blocked before most of the
    emails have been propogated. As I said, if you think you can send this
    many emails off a personal account try it and see if it works.

    All of this is a normal part of a commercial offering which does cost
    more than the pure bandwidth although surely that is part of the cost.

    I don't need server. I just need a list of addresses, then its a relatively
    straight forward matter of automating the process.
    I don't know how to do that at the moment but I would certaintly be able
    to do it for £6,000 either buying a package or figuring out the format of
    an email and then writing a small program to automaticlly generate them.
    I would probably do the latter 'for fun' actually.
    Then I smiply copy them to the outbox and click send. Job done.
    Turkey Cough, Feb 25, 2007
    #17
  18. Turkey Cough

    Turkey Cough Guest


    >
    > I don't need server. I just need a list of addresses, then its a
    > relatively
    > straight forward matter of automating the process.
    > I don't know how to do that at the moment but I would certaintly be able
    > to do it for £6,000 either buying a package or figuring out the format of
    > an email and then writing a small program to automaticlly generate them.
    > I would probably do the latter 'for fun' actually.
    > Then I smiply copy them to the outbox and click send. Job done.
    >
    Turkey Cough, Feb 25, 2007
    #18
  19. Turkey Cough

    NicHughes Guest

    On 25 Feb, 00:27, "Turkey Cough" <> wrote:

    >
    > I don't need server. I just need a list of addresses, then its a relatively
    > straight forward matter of automating the process.
    > I don't know how to do that at the moment but I would certaintly be able
    > to do it for £6,000 either buying a package or figuring out the format of
    > an email and then writing a small program to automaticlly generate them.
    > I would probably do the latter 'for fun' actually.
    > Then I smiply copy them to the outbox and click send. Job done.



    Point 1 - forget the 6000 figure. Nobody else on the thread thinks
    this is likely and its clear from the initial news report that it came
    from an ill-educated guess. I would expect this sort of service to
    cost in the range 500-1000 depending on details of the service that we
    do not know about (like success reporting).

    Point 2 - just because it sounds like it might work does not mean that
    it will work. Try it and see - there is a high chance that you will
    simply get spam-blocked. One of the indirect effects of the spammers
    is to make life complicated for legitimate mass senders of email.

    --
    Nic
    NicHughes, Feb 26, 2007
    #19
  20. Turkey Cough

    Turkey Cough Guest

    I can simply by a package to do it for welluner £100

    http://www.1-bulk-email-software.net/bulk-email-software.html
    http://www.1-bulk-email-software.net/order.html


    Infact I can do it fo nothing under the 30 day free trial.


    "NicHughes" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On 25 Feb, 00:27, "Turkey Cough" <> wrote:

    >
    > I don't need server. I just need a list of addresses, then its a
    > relatively
    > straight forward matter of automating the process.
    > I don't know how to do that at the moment but I would certaintly be able
    > to do it for £6,000 either buying a package or figuring out the format of
    > an email and then writing a small program to automaticlly generate them.
    > I would probably do the latter 'for fun' actually.
    > Then I smiply copy them to the outbox and click send. Job done.



    Point 1 - forget the 6000 figure. Nobody else on the thread thinks
    this is likely and its clear from the initial news report that it came
    from an ill-educated guess. I would expect this sort of service to
    cost in the range 500-1000 depending on details of the service that we
    do not know about (like success reporting).

    Point 2 - just because it sounds like it might work does not mean that
    it will work. Try it and see - there is a high chance that you will
    simply get spam-blocked. One of the indirect effects of the spammers
    is to make life complicated for legitimate mass senders of email.

    --
    Nic
    Turkey Cough, Feb 26, 2007
    #20
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