Copyright - ugh ugh ugh

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Steve, Oct 16, 2006.

  1. Steve

    Steve Guest

    http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html

    At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    is subject to copyright protection.


    --

    The government is unresponsive to the needs of the little man.
    Under 5'7" it is impossible to get your congressman on the phone.

    ....Woody Allen
    Steve, Oct 16, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. At the Mystic Aquarium in Mystic, Connecticut, they also have
    a booth where you can pose with a bird on your shoulder, but
    they explicitly allow people to take their own pictures in
    addition to buying the pictures taken by their photographer.

    I wonder if this is because their both is in a somewhat dark
    area, so it's hard for amateurs to get good photos, so more
    people end up buying the photographer's. At an outdoor fair
    on a nice day, it wouldn't be that difficult for an amateur to
    get a decent picture of a kid with a bird, so they probably
    sell a lot fewer pictures, which might lead them to ask people
    not to take their own pictures.

    Or, alternatively, they're just greedy.

    --
    Help stop the genocide in Darfur!
    http://www.genocideintervention.net/
    Jonathan Kamens, Oct 16, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Steve

    PTravel Guest

    "Steve" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    >
    > http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html
    >
    > At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    > to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    > Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    > birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    > COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    > everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    > is subject to copyright protection.


    There is no such thing as a "copyright protected area," nor is a live bird
    protected by copyright. You could have safely ignored the sign.


    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > The government is unresponsive to the needs of the little man.
    > Under 5'7" it is impossible to get your congressman on the phone.
    >
    > ...Woody Allen
    PTravel, Oct 16, 2006
    #3
  4. Steve

    AustinMN Guest

    Steve wrote:
    > http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html
    >
    > At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    > to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    > Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    > birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    > COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    > everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    > is subject to copyright protection.


    Who was paying for the booth? Typically, fair booths have to rent the
    space they occupy as well as pay for the booth itself, and, in this
    case, pay for the birds and their upkeep. Do the other booths (food,
    crafts, etc.) expect you to pay, or do they give their products and
    services away for free?

    The only person who's brainwashed here is the one who expects something
    for nothing when it comes to photography.

    Austin
    AustinMN, Oct 16, 2006
    #4
  5. Steve

    Philippe Guest

    AustinMN wrote:
    > Steve wrote:
    >
    >>http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html
    >>
    >>At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    >>to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    >>Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    >>birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    >>COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    >>everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    >>is subject to copyright protection.

    >
    >
    > Who was paying for the booth? Typically, fair booths have to rent the
    > space they occupy as well as pay for the booth itself, and, in this
    > case, pay for the birds and their upkeep. Do the other booths (food,
    > crafts, etc.) expect you to pay, or do they give their products and
    > services away for free?
    >
    > The only person who's brainwashed here is the one who expects something
    > for nothing when it comes to photography.
    >
    > Austin
    >

    I'd have to disagree in just about *any* situation other than this one..
    Here, the product being sold *was* pictures with the pretty birds, so
    allowing you to take pictures with the pretty birds on your own would
    have been counterproductive for the booth owners. Odds are the birds
    weren't 'right in the open' where you could have zoom access to them;
    you'd likely have to have gone 'into' their area to get a good shot?

    P.

    --
    I do *NOT* have a short attention sp...(Oooh!! shiny!!)
    Philippe, Oct 16, 2006
    #5
  6. Steve

    tomm42 Guest

    On Oct 16, 9:09 am, Steve <> wrote:
    > http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html
    >
    > At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    > to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    > Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    > birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    > COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    > everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    > is subject to copyright protection.
    >
    > --
    >
    > The government is unresponsive to the needs of the little man.
    > Under 5'7" it is impossible to get your congressman on the phone.
    >
    > ...Woody Allen


    First they don't want every parent firing a flash off in there booth
    freaking the birds. Macaws can be very nasty when annoyed, and they
    don't want a law suit when your daughter gets a bloodied ear. Other
    than that it does seem that they want $10 for a 4x6. That is how they
    make money. I ran a booth at some charity events photographing people
    in period costumes, I would have been very annoyed if the people used
    my area, my costumes and popped their own pictures. I lost a client, a
    photostore doing retouching jobs, when a lot of the jobs started coming
    in as proofs from weddings and novelty booths. I realized I was taking
    someone elses money. You don't have to enter their booth if you don't
    want too. But if you do again you don't have to buy a picture. But
    taking your own picture is an infringement on their rights to make back
    the money they spent on this booth. Rememnber these folks have to cover
    their expenses and make a profit for the week, so if they don't get a
    thousand paying customers they have lost money. Using copyright as the
    reason maybe a stretch but takeing your kids picture and not paying
    them is really ripping them off. Remember each of those Macaws is worth
    $2500 or more.

    Tom
    tomm42, Oct 16, 2006
    #6
  7. Steve

    Steve Guest

    Philippe <> wrote:
    >>>http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html
    >>>At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    >>>to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    >>>Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    >>>birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    >>>COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    >>>everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    >>>is subject to copyright protection.

    >>
    >> The only person who's brainwashed here is the one who expects something
    >> for nothing when it comes to photography.
    >>

    >I'd have to disagree in just about *any* situation other than this one..
    >Here, the product being sold *was* pictures with the pretty birds, so
    >allowing you to take pictures with the pretty birds on your own would
    >have been counterproductive for the booth owners.


    True, and they could certainly put up a sign requesting no pictures.
    But calling it a "copyright-protected area" is just nonsense...


    --

    The government is unresponsive to the needs of the little man.
    Under 5'7" it is impossible to get your congressman on the phone.

    ....Woody Allen
    Steve, Oct 16, 2006
    #7
  8. Steve

    Philippe Guest

    Steve wrote:
    > Philippe <> wrote:
    >
    >>>>http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html
    >>>>At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    >>>>to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    >>>>Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    >>>>birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    >>>>COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    >>>>everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    >>>>is subject to copyright protection.
    >>>
    >>>The only person who's brainwashed here is the one who expects something
    >>>for nothing when it comes to photography.
    >>>

    >>
    >>I'd have to disagree in just about *any* situation other than this one..
    >>Here, the product being sold *was* pictures with the pretty birds, so
    >>allowing you to take pictures with the pretty birds on your own would
    >>have been counterproductive for the booth owners.

    >
    >
    > True, and they could certainly put up a sign requesting no pictures.
    > But calling it a "copyright-protected area" is just nonsense...
    >
    >

    True.

    P.

    --
    I do *NOT* have a short attention sp...(Oooh!! shiny!!)
    Philippe, Oct 16, 2006
    #8
  9. Steve

    Bill Funk Guest

    On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 06:09:32 -0700, Steve <> wrote:

    >
    >http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html
    >
    >At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    >to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    >Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    >birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    >COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    >everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    >is subject to copyright protection.


    My understanding of copyright law says the sign is totally
    unenforceable.
    The "area" can't be copyrighted.
    The birds can't be copyrighted.
    I will assume the vendor was selling their own photos, right?
    --
    Bill Funk
    replace "g" with "a"
    Bill Funk, Oct 16, 2006
    #9
  10. Bill Funk wrote:
    > On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 06:09:32 -0700, Steve <> wrote:
    >
    >> http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html
    >>
    >> At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    >> to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    >> Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    >> birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    >> COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    >> everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    >> is subject to copyright protection.

    >
    > My understanding of copyright law says the sign is totally
    > unenforceable.
    > The "area" can't be copyrighted.
    > The birds can't be copyrighted.
    > I will assume the vendor was selling their own photos, right?


    However like a mall, it is private property and as such they can
    restrict photography, and in worse case scenario charge you with
    trespassing.
    Not Disclosed, Oct 16, 2006
    #10
  11. Steve

    Guest

    Wow, that is going a bit far!
    , Oct 16, 2006
    #11
  12. Steve

    Bill Funk Guest

    On 16 Oct 2006 07:06:53 -0700, "tomm42" <> wrote:

    >
    >
    >On Oct 16, 9:09 am, Steve <> wrote:
    >> http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html
    >>
    >> At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    >> to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    >> Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    >> birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    >> COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    >> everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    >> is subject to copyright protection.
    >>
    >> --
    >>
    >> The government is unresponsive to the needs of the little man.
    >> Under 5'7" it is impossible to get your congressman on the phone.
    >>
    >> ...Woody Allen

    >
    >First they don't want every parent firing a flash off in there booth
    >freaking the birds. Macaws can be very nasty when annoyed, and they
    >don't want a law suit when your daughter gets a bloodied ear. Other
    >than that it does seem that they want $10 for a 4x6. That is how they
    >make money. I ran a booth at some charity events photographing people
    >in period costumes, I would have been very annoyed if the people used
    >my area, my costumes and popped their own pictures. I lost a client, a
    >photostore doing retouching jobs, when a lot of the jobs started coming
    >in as proofs from weddings and novelty booths. I realized I was taking
    >someone elses money. You don't have to enter their booth if you don't
    >want too. But if you do again you don't have to buy a picture. But
    >taking your own picture is an infringement on their rights to make back
    >the money they spent on this booth. Rememnber these folks have to cover
    >their expenses and make a profit for the week, so if they don't get a
    >thousand paying customers they have lost money. Using copyright as the
    >reason maybe a stretch but takeing your kids picture and not paying
    >them is really ripping them off. Remember each of those Macaws is worth
    >$2500 or more.
    >
    >Tom



    While most of what you say is true, the vendor can simply say, "No
    photos."
    The copyright claim is just wrong. Why not be honest?
    --
    Bill Funk
    replace "g" with "a"
    Bill Funk, Oct 16, 2006
    #12
  13. Steve

    EDM Guest

    Was driving through Sunnyvale yesterday and came across
    Yahoo's headquarters. A sign was posted right next to the
    public sidewalk: "PHOTOGRAPHY PROHIBITED BY
    FEDERAL LAW". What federal law are they referring to?

    What a freaking corporate fascist state.
    EDM, Oct 16, 2006
    #13
  14. Steve

    Philippe Guest

    Bill Funk wrote:
    > On 16 Oct 2006 07:06:53 -0700, "tomm42" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >>On Oct 16, 9:09 am, Steve <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html
    >>>
    >>>At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    >>>to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    >>>Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    >>>birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    >>>COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    >>>everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    >>>is subject to copyright protection.
    >>>
    >>>--
    >>>
    >>>The government is unresponsive to the needs of the little man.
    >>>Under 5'7" it is impossible to get your congressman on the phone.
    >>>
    >>>...Woody Allen

    >>
    >>First they don't want every parent firing a flash off in there booth
    >>freaking the birds. Macaws can be very nasty when annoyed, and they
    >>don't want a law suit when your daughter gets a bloodied ear. Other
    >>than that it does seem that they want $10 for a 4x6. That is how they
    >>make money. I ran a booth at some charity events photographing people
    >>in period costumes, I would have been very annoyed if the people used
    >>my area, my costumes and popped their own pictures. I lost a client, a
    >>photostore doing retouching jobs, when a lot of the jobs started coming
    >>in as proofs from weddings and novelty booths. I realized I was taking
    >>someone elses money. You don't have to enter their booth if you don't
    >>want too. But if you do again you don't have to buy a picture. But
    >>taking your own picture is an infringement on their rights to make back
    >>the money they spent on this booth. Rememnber these folks have to cover
    >>their expenses and make a profit for the week, so if they don't get a
    >>thousand paying customers they have lost money. Using copyright as the
    >>reason maybe a stretch but takeing your kids picture and not paying
    >>them is really ripping them off. Remember each of those Macaws is worth
    >>$2500 or more.
    >>
    >>Tom

    >
    >
    >
    > While most of what you say is true, the vendor can simply say, "No
    > photos."
    > The copyright claim is just wrong. Why not be honest?


    Likely for the simple fact that unless there is a threat of legal
    action, people tend to ignore signs like "no food or drink" and "no
    photos"..

    :(

    P.

    --
    I do *NOT* have a short attention sp...(Oooh!! shiny!!)
    Philippe, Oct 16, 2006
    #14
  15. Steve

    Doug Robbins Guest

    There is a local hospital with very striking modern architectural design. On
    a couple of occasions I have been photographing from the sidewalk (not even
    on hospital property) when I have been approached by a security guard asking
    what I was doing. I suppose my complete lack of defensiveness and the fact
    that I am clearly a local citizen allayed their suspicions. Both were
    friendly and apologetic after I calmly explained. Still, they did ask to
    see my driver's license. The threat of terrorism has everone jumpy these
    days.

    Doug

    "Steve" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    >
    > http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html
    >
    > At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    > to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    > Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    > birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    > COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    > everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    > is subject to copyright protection.
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > The government is unresponsive to the needs of the little man.
    > Under 5'7" it is impossible to get your congressman on the phone.
    >
    > ...Woody Allen
    Doug Robbins, Oct 16, 2006
    #15
  16. In article <YiMYg.22945$P7.6751@edtnps89>, Philippe
    <> writes
    >AustinMN wrote:
    >> Steve wrote:
    >>
    >>>http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html
    >>>
    >>>At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    >>>to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    >>>Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    >>>birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    >>>COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    >>>everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    >>>is subject to copyright protection.

    >> Who was paying for the booth? Typically, fair booths have to rent
    >>the
    >> space they occupy as well as pay for the booth itself, and, in this
    >> case, pay for the birds and their upkeep. Do the other booths (food,
    >> crafts, etc.) expect you to pay, or do they give their products and
    >> services away for free?
    >> The only person who's brainwashed here is the one who expects
    >>something
    >> for nothing when it comes to photography.
    >> Austin
    >>

    >I'd have to disagree in just about *any* situation other than this
    >one.. Here, the product being sold *was* pictures with the pretty
    >birds, so allowing you to take pictures with the pretty birds on your
    >own would have been counterproductive for the booth owners. Odds are
    >the birds weren't 'right in the open' where you could have zoom access
    >to them; you'd likely have to have gone 'into' their area to get a good >shot?
    >

    Surely the issue is not whether it is or is not counter-productive for
    the stallholder - after all, it is counter-productive for burglars that
    I lock my door, or (to give a less perjorative example) for the
    restaurants in my area that we cook our own meals.

    No, the correct issue is who has the legal right to prevent you from
    taking photos. It will depend on jurisdiction, but most likely the only
    person who can do this is the owner of the land or fairground operator
    who, in selling or giving you licence to enter the property may impose
    whatever conditions he wishes. If he does not do so, I doubt any
    individual stallholder can do so. Whatever else it is, it is not an
    issue of copyright.

    He could of course refuse to let your daughter hold his bird, but it is
    doubtful if he could do anything else.

    David
    --
    David Littlewood
    David Littlewood, Oct 16, 2006
    #16
  17. Steve

    AustinMN Guest

    Bill Funk wrote:
    > On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 06:09:32 -0700, Steve <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html
    > >
    > >At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    > >to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    > >Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    > >birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    > >COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    > >everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    > >is subject to copyright protection.

    >
    > My understanding of copyright law says the sign is totally
    > unenforceable.
    > The "area" can't be copyrighted.
    > The birds can't be copyrighted.
    > I will assume the vendor was selling their own photos, right?


    The backdrops CAN be copyrighted.
    Any props CAN be copyrighted.

    Austin
    AustinMN, Oct 16, 2006
    #17
  18. Steve

    Eric Miller Guest

    "PHOTOGRAPHY PROHIBITED BY
    > FEDERAL LAW". What federal law are they referring to?
    >


    The following was all that I could find doing a quick search:

    18 U.S.C.A. §793

    Eric Miller
    Eric Miller, Oct 16, 2006
    #18
  19. "Bill Funk" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 06:09:32 -0700, Steve <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>http://feettothefire.com/2006/10/hollywood_and_the_riaa_are_win.html
    >>
    >>At the Fresno Fair, I was astounded to find copyright law being used
    >>to prevent me from taking pictures of my daughter with a bird.
    >>Specifically, at a booth where your child can pose with some colorful
    >>birds, there was a sign that said PLEASE NO CAMERAS. THIS IS A
    >>COPYRIGHT PROTECTED AREA. We are turning into a society where
    >>everybody is so brainwashed by Hollywood that they believe everything
    >>is subject to copyright protection.

    >
    > My understanding of copyright law says the sign is totally
    > unenforceable.
    > The "area" can't be copyrighted.
    > The birds can't be copyrighted.
    > I will assume the vendor was selling their own photos, right?


    maybe the "layout" was copywrited?

    > --
    > Bill Funk
    > replace "g" with "a"
    AllEmailDeletedImmediately, Oct 16, 2006
    #19
  20. "EDM" <> wrote in message
    news:eLNYg.7794$...
    > Was driving through Sunnyvale yesterday and came across
    > Yahoo's headquarters. A sign was posted right next to the
    > public sidewalk: "PHOTOGRAPHY PROHIBITED BY
    > FEDERAL LAW". What federal law are they referring to?
    >
    > What a freaking corporate fascist state.


    did you go in a ask them to cite the law?
    >
    >
    AllEmailDeletedImmediately, Oct 16, 2006
    #20
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