Copying Movies: SKY says its legal on "MY SKY"

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Jones Minor, Nov 24, 2005.

  1. Jones Minor

    Jones Minor Guest

    Sky is currently advertising that a hard disk drive recorder that records up
    to 60 hours of television will be available to Sky subscribers as from 5th
    December 2005. Known as "MY SKY", this recorder can record two channels at
    once, and you can programme MY SKY to create your own TV schedule of sport,
    movies and "endless soaps". Sky says "Soon you can run your own TV station".
    Not only can you record two channels at once, but you can also watch a third
    programme from your planner. You can also pause live TV and rejoin it when
    you are ready. If the programme you want to watch is part of a series, you
    can ask MY SKY to record every episode automatically by simply pushing one
    button.

    Now this means you can record about 30 or 40 movies on your hard drive with
    the full blessing of Sky. But a while ago, there was a very enthusiastic
    gentleman on TV who said the authorities would be prepared to prosecute
    individuals who copied movies, even if they didn't show them to others or
    try make money by selling them. For example, it wasn't so long ago that a
    fellow from Nelson hired a DVD from a video shop but inadvertently returned
    a copy of the movie he had made rather than the original. He explained that
    he didn't have time to watch it immediately, so he copied it so he could
    watch it in a few days' time. The DVD shop reported him to the copyright
    authorities who did a full investigation into the matter, but decided not to
    prosecute in this case because the man was "truly sorry" he had copied the
    DVD.

    Now I can't see much difference between a person who copies a DVD that has
    been hired from a video shop, and one who a copies a Sky movie from a Sky
    broadcast. Technically, they have both ignored the requirement of the
    copyright holder not to copy the movie. Now I guess there is no legal
    difference between a person who records a Sky movie on a hard drive, and one
    who copies it on a DVD. If you copy it on a non-rewriteable DVD, you have to
    throw away the DVD to get rid of the movie because you can't write over it.

    Now that Sky has "legalised" the copying of movies so you can watch them at
    your convenience, I guess it must also be legal to hire say, 4 DVDs at a
    time from the DVD shop, and copy these so you can watch them later, avoid
    overdue fees, and get them for the cheapest price.? Surely, there shouldn't
    be a problem if you don't lend your copied movies to others or try to sell
    them, but just keep them for your own personal enjoyment and convenience
    (and shut up about having copied them). What do you think?

    JM
     
    Jones Minor, Nov 24, 2005
    #1
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  2. Jones Minor

    PAM. Guest

    "Jones Minor" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > What do you think?


    What you do in the privacy of your own home is not of my concern. I would
    like to think that authorities would regard recording of TV programmes like
    this as breaking the law but like in the UK, "eating christmas pudding on
    Christmas day" or "Not practicing Archery", they are not worth enforcing and
    a waste of time and effort

    PAM.
     
    PAM., Nov 24, 2005
    #2
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  3. Jones Minor

    Steven H Guest

    Hello Jones,

    > What do you think?


    its called time shifting, new zealand law provides for it.

    however that person who got caught returning a copyed disk .... time shifting
    doesnt allow that, its still illegal.

    ----------------
    the madGeek

    > Sky is currently advertising that a hard disk drive recorder that
    > records up to 60 hours of television will be available to Sky
    > subscribers as from 5th December 2005. Known as "MY SKY", this
    > recorder can record two channels at once, and you can programme MY SKY
    > to create your own TV schedule of sport, movies and "endless soaps".
    > Sky says "Soon you can run your own TV station". Not only can you
    > record two channels at once, but you can also watch a third programme
    > from your planner. You can also pause live TV and rejoin it when you
    > are ready. If the programme you want to watch is part of a series, you
    > can ask MY SKY to record every episode automatically by simply pushing
    > one button.
    >
    > Now this means you can record about 30 or 40 movies on your hard drive
    > with the full blessing of Sky. But a while ago, there was a very
    > enthusiastic gentleman on TV who said the authorities would be
    > prepared to prosecute individuals who copied movies, even if they
    > didn't show them to others or try make money by selling them. For
    > example, it wasn't so long ago that a fellow from Nelson hired a DVD
    > from a video shop but inadvertently returned a copy of the movie he
    > had made rather than the original. He explained that he didn't have
    > time to watch it immediately, so he copied it so he could watch it in
    > a few days' time. The DVD shop reported him to the copyright
    > authorities who did a full investigation into the matter, but decided
    > not to prosecute in this case because the man was "truly sorry" he had
    > copied the DVD.
    >
    > Now I can't see much difference between a person who copies a DVD that
    > has been hired from a video shop, and one who a copies a Sky movie
    > from a Sky broadcast. Technically, they have both ignored the
    > requirement of the copyright holder not to copy the movie. Now I guess
    > there is no legal difference between a person who records a Sky movie
    > on a hard drive, and one who copies it on a DVD. If you copy it on a
    > non-rewriteable DVD, you have to throw away the DVD to get rid of the
    > movie because you can't write over it.
    >
    > Now that Sky has "legalised" the copying of movies so you can watch
    > them at your convenience, I guess it must also be legal to hire say, 4
    > DVDs at a time from the DVD shop, and copy these so you can watch them
    > later, avoid overdue fees, and get them for the cheapest price.?
    > Surely, there shouldn't be a problem if you don't lend your copied
    > movies to others or try to sell them, but just keep them for your own
    > personal enjoyment and convenience (and shut up about having copied
    > them). What do you think?
    >
    > JM
    >
     
    Steven H, Nov 24, 2005
    #3
  4. Jones Minor

    Krazy Bob Guest

    "Steven H" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello Jones,
    >
    >> What do you think?

    >
    > its called time shifting, new zealand law provides for it.
    >
    > however that person who got caught returning a copyed disk .... time
    > shifting doesnt allow that, its still illegal.


    The juice wasn't worth the squeeze, why would the nz police spend time &
    money investing in a case that probably would of been successfully won, and
    only have the judge give the guy 100hrs of community service?
    all the time, money, effort, waste of resources.

    at present you can copy movies off sky with the use of your vcr, so why
    would my sky be any different now? just a different way of recording the
    media thats all,
    same applies to music you tape off the radio,

    KB
     
    Krazy Bob, Nov 24, 2005
    #4
  5. Jones Minor

    Jones Minor Guest

    "Steven H" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello Jones,
    >
    >> What do you think?

    >
    > its called time shifting, new zealand law provides for it.
    >
    > however that person who got caught returning a copyed disk .... time
    > shifting doesnt allow that, its still illegal.
    >
    > ----------------
    > the madGeek


    Thanks for this, somehow your reply left out nz.general in the newsgroups
    you replied to.
     
    Jones Minor, Nov 24, 2005
    #5
  6. Jones Minor

    Jones Minor Guest

    "Krazy Bob" <@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:68ahf.3312$...
    >
    > "Steven H" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Hello Jones,
    >>
    >>> What do you think?

    >>
    >> its called time shifting, new zealand law provides for it.
    >>
    >> however that person who got caught returning a copyed disk .... time
    >> shifting doesnt allow that, its still illegal.

    >
    > The juice wasn't worth the squeeze, why would the nz police spend time &
    > money investing in a case that probably would of been successfully won,
    > and only have the judge give the guy 100hrs of community service?
    > all the time, money, effort, waste of resources.
    >
    > at present you can copy movies off sky with the use of your vcr, so why
    > would my sky be any different now? just a different way of recording the
    > media thats all,
    > same applies to music you tape off the radio,
    >
    > KB

    Thanks Krazy, I agree with this. I don't think it's much different
    "temporarily" copying DVDs you hire from a DVD shop either.

    (nz.general added back to groups)
     
    Jones Minor, Nov 24, 2005
    #6
  7. "Jones Minor" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Sky is currently advertising that a hard disk drive recorder that records
    > up to 60 hours of television will be available to Sky subscribers as from
    > 5th December 2005. Known as "MY SKY", this recorder can record two
    > channels at once, and you can programme MY SKY to create your own TV
    > schedule of sport, movies and "endless soaps". Sky says "Soon you can run
    > your own TV station". Not only can you record two channels at once, but
    > you can also watch a third programme from your planner. You can also pause
    > live TV and rejoin it when you are ready. If the programme you want to
    > watch is part of a series, you can ask MY SKY to record every episode
    > automatically by simply pushing one button.
    >
    > Now this means you can record about 30 or 40 movies on your hard drive
    > with the full blessing of Sky. But a while ago, there was a very
    > enthusiastic gentleman on TV who said the authorities would be prepared to
    > prosecute individuals who copied movies, even if they didn't show them to
    > others or try make money by selling them. For example, it wasn't so long
    > ago that a fellow from Nelson hired a DVD from a video shop but
    > inadvertently returned a copy of the movie he had made rather than the
    > original. He explained that he didn't have time to watch it immediately,
    > so he copied it so he could watch it in a few days' time. The DVD shop
    > reported him to the copyright authorities who did a full investigation
    > into the matter, but decided not to prosecute in this case because the man
    > was "truly sorry" he had copied the DVD.
    >
    > Now I can't see much difference between a person who copies a DVD that has
    > been hired from a video shop, and one who a copies a Sky movie from a Sky
    > broadcast. Technically, they have both ignored the requirement of the
    > copyright holder not to copy the movie. Now I guess there is no legal
    > difference between a person who records a Sky movie on a hard drive, and
    > one who copies it on a DVD. If you copy it on a non-rewriteable DVD, you
    > have to throw away the DVD to get rid of the movie because you can't write
    > over it.
    >
    > Now that Sky has "legalised" the copying of movies so you can watch them
    > at your convenience, I guess it must also be legal to hire say, 4 DVDs at
    > a time from the DVD shop, and copy these so you can watch them later,
    > avoid overdue fees, and get them for the cheapest price.? Surely, there
    > shouldn't be a problem if you don't lend your copied movies to others or
    > try to sell them, but just keep them for your own personal enjoyment and
    > convenience (and shut up about having copied them). What do you think?
    >
    > JM
    >


    Timeshifting is legal.

    Anyway, I'd rather watch a dvd on my plasma /surround sound system. It is
    marvellous.

    Sky cripples content, and I say a good movie is worth watching properly.
    Thats why I never get why people want to watch pirated movies which have
    been shot on some dudes handycam.
     
    news.xtra.co.nz, Nov 24, 2005
    #7
  8. Jones Minor

    Daniel Guest

    H wrote:
    >
    > however that person who got caught returning a copyed disk .... time
    > shifting doesnt allow that, its still illegal.
    >


    Wasn't he done because he basically stole the original, and not because
    he copied it (i.e. he copies original and then mistakenly returned the
    copy).

    I think if he'd returned the original the Police wouldn't have batted an
    eyelid.

    AFAIK copyright isn't generally enforced by the Government.
     
    Daniel, Nov 24, 2005
    #8
  9. Jones Minor

    Gordon Guest

    On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:07:44 +1300, Jones Minor wrote:

    > Sky is currently advertising that a hard disk drive recorder that records up
    > to 60 hours of television will be available to Sky subscribers as from 5th
    > December 2005.


    [Snip]

    What do you think?
    >

    1) SKY is getting into the hardware business, al la MS and Xbox
    2) Technology is forcing the lawyers to eat dust as they try and catch up.

    the term reasonable use has come into being for what one should be allowed
    to do with copyright material.

    Letting people *sell* (copyrighted material), or give away on mass
    material which others have put an effort into without reward, with the
    idea of making some profit themselves is abhorant. The actors, singers,
    songwriters, are people who need an income just like the rest of us.

    Note music companies have been left out of the above.

    Format shifting is the thing we are not allowed to do legally. Which is
    just silly. One buys a CD and then wants to rip it to mp3 for the portable
    player. Well one is listening to either on or the other, not both at the
    same time.

    Copyright is about money. For the artists/actors/support crew this income
    for them.

    In many ways I wish I could buy music CD's from the artists' themselves
    and give the record companys' a miss. Still this might not work as
    marketing is all important ;-)
     
    Gordon, Nov 24, 2005
    #9
  10. Jones Minor

    shannon Guest

    Jones Minor wrote:
    > Sky is currently advertising that a hard disk drive recorder that records up
    > to 60 hours of television will be available to Sky subscribers as from 5th
    > December 2005. Known as "MY SKY", this recorder can record two channels at
    > once, and you can programme MY SKY to create your own TV schedule of sport,
    > movies and "endless soaps". Sky says "Soon you can run your own TV station".
    > Not only can you record two channels at once, but you can also watch a third
    > programme from your planner. You can also pause live TV and rejoin it when
    > you are ready. If the programme you want to watch is part of a series, you
    > can ask MY SKY to record every episode automatically by simply pushing one
    > button.
    >
    > Now this means you can record about 30 or 40 movies on your hard drive with
    > the full blessing of Sky. But a while ago, there was a very enthusiastic
    > gentleman on TV who said the authorities would be prepared to prosecute
    > individuals who copied movies, even if they didn't show them to others or
    > try make money by selling them. For example, it wasn't so long ago that a
    > fellow from Nelson hired a DVD from a video shop but inadvertently returned
    > a copy of the movie he had made rather than the original. He explained that
    > he didn't have time to watch it immediately, so he copied it so he could
    > watch it in a few days' time. The DVD shop reported him to the copyright
    > authorities who did a full investigation into the matter, but decided not to
    > prosecute in this case because the man was "truly sorry" he had copied the
    > DVD.
    >
    > Now I can't see much difference between a person who copies a DVD that has
    > been hired from a video shop, and one who a copies a Sky movie from a Sky
    > broadcast. Technically, they have both ignored the requirement of the
    > copyright holder not to copy the movie. Now I guess there is no legal
    > difference between a person who records a Sky movie on a hard drive, and one
    > who copies it on a DVD. If you copy it on a non-rewriteable DVD, you have to
    > throw away the DVD to get rid of the movie because you can't write over it.
    >
    > Now that Sky has "legalised" the copying of movies so you can watch them at
    > your convenience, I guess it must also be legal to hire say, 4 DVDs at a
    > time from the DVD shop, and copy these so you can watch them later, avoid
    > overdue fees, and get them for the cheapest price.? Surely, there shouldn't
    > be a problem if you don't lend your copied movies to others or try to sell
    > them, but just keep them for your own personal enjoyment and convenience
    > (and shut up about having copied them). What do you think?
    >
    > JM
    >
    >


    Stay under the radar, don't sell copies.

    Just like in the case of the chap who copied the DVD, the copyright
    holder has the right to pursue prosecution.
    Sky has waived that right, but the law has not changed.
    Unauthorised copyright infringement is not a crime prosecuted by the
    crown. (Unless they are the copyright holder)
    Copyright law is civil law, and enforcement is up to the copyright holder.
    Copyright is designed to protect the copyright holders commerce from
    losses due to unauthorised copies being sold, not for the random
    persecution of consumers clients and customers.
    Damages and penalties are usually relative to the number of counterfeit
    copies sold by the infringing party.
     
    shannon, Nov 24, 2005
    #10
  11. Jones Minor

    Jones Minor Guest

    "Craig Sutton" <> wrote in message
    news:dm3cpk$he6$...
    >
    > "Jones Minor" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >> So you can't time shift DVDs that you hire from the video shop, but you

    > can
    >> record from TV broadcasts and "time shift" as much as you want? Now how
    >> silly is this? This would discourage me from hiring DVDs from a video

    > shop!
    >>
    >> Is there any limit on the length of time you can timeshift? That is,
    >> could
    >> you hold a copy of a Sky movie for 18 months before watching it, or does

    > the
    >> law prohibit this? Does the law say you can record only on DVD

    > rewriteables
    >> and not on DVDs that cannot be erased?
    >>
    >> Also, would you advise people to subscribe to Sky movies rather than

    > hiring
    >> DVDs from a video shop? It seems a much safer legal option if you need to
    >> time shift?
    >>
    >> And how did the DVD shop get the licence to hire out movies in the first
    >> place, most DVDs say they can't be copied or hired!
    >>

    > I think you will find with Mysky PPV events will be protected with
    > macrovision. Also some movies will autodelete themselves after 2 days.
    >

    What are PPV events? As to autodeleting, you'd have to be kidding? Sky can't
    auto delete programmes you record on your video tape!
     
    Jones Minor, Nov 24, 2005
    #11
  12. Jones Minor

    Krazy Bob Guest

    "Jones Minor" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Krazy Bob" <@gmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:68ahf.3312$...
    >>
    >> "Steven H" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Hello Jones,
    >>>
    >>>> What do you think?
    >>>
    >>> its called time shifting, new zealand law provides for it.
    >>>
    >>> however that person who got caught returning a copyed disk .... time
    >>> shifting doesnt allow that, its still illegal.

    >>
    >> The juice wasn't worth the squeeze, why would the nz police spend time &
    >> money investing in a case that probably would of been successfully won,
    >> and only have the judge give the guy 100hrs of community service?
    >> all the time, money, effort, waste of resources.
    >>
    >> at present you can copy movies off sky with the use of your vcr, so why
    >> would my sky be any different now? just a different way of recording the
    >> media thats all,
    >> same applies to music you tape off the radio,
    >>
    >> KB

    > Thanks Krazy, I agree with this. I don't think it's much different
    > "temporarily" copying DVDs you hire from a DVD shop either.


    Exactly, i think that guy who returned the copy instead of the orginal
    already proves a point that, if he does it chances are 1000's are doing the
    same.

    if i had the money, i would buy "my sky"

    KB
     
    Krazy Bob, Nov 24, 2005
    #12
  13. Jones Minor

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    Gordon wrote:
    >
    > In many ways I wish I could buy music CD's from the artists'
    > themselves and give the record companys' a miss. Still this might not
    > work as marketing is all important ;-)


    I was reading a forum somewhere the other day and someone was advocating
    pirating music but at the same time sending a cheque to the artist. Someone
    else said that it was still theft (morally, legally it is theft regardless)
    because the record company, who you are cutting out of the equation by doing
    this, paid for the music to be recorded, engineered etc. but apparently the
    artist quite often has this cost "recovered" from them by the record company
    out of their royalties anyway, and at a higher rate than they would be
    charged by independent studios. I wish I could remember where I was reading
    it, I'd post a link, it was a damn interesting thread.

    This is from http://monkeygumbo.com/news/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=818 (in
    US$):

    "$0.17 Musicians' unions
    $0.80 Packaging/manufacturing
    $0.82 Publishing royalties
    $0.80 Retail profit
    $0.90 Distribution
    $1.60 Artists' royalties
    $1.70 Label profit
    $2.40 Marketing/promotion
    $2.91 Label overhead
    $3.89 Retail overhead
    Of the $1.60 the artist is making from the sale of their CD, they have to
    pay out for recording studio fees, and other miscellaneous costs, so they
    basically wind up with little to nothing."
     
    Nik Coughlin, Nov 24, 2005
    #13
  14. Jones Minor

    shannon Guest

    Nik Coughlin wrote:
    > Gordon wrote:
    >> In many ways I wish I could buy music CD's from the artists'
    >> themselves and give the record companys' a miss. Still this might not
    >> work as marketing is all important ;-)

    >
    > I was reading a forum somewhere the other day and someone was advocating
    > pirating music but at the same time sending a cheque to the artist. Someone
    > else said that it was still theft (morally, legally it is theft regardless)


    No
    Legally, it is copyright infringement.
    That is why it is covered by the copyright act and not the crimes act.

    Copying your car is different to stealing it.
     
    shannon, Nov 24, 2005
    #14
  15. "shannon" <> wrote in message news:438540d4$...
    > Jones Minor wrote:
    >> Sky is currently advertising that a hard disk drive recorder that records
    >> up to 60 hours of television will be available to Sky subscribers as from
    >> 5th December 2005. Known as "MY SKY", this recorder can record two
    >> channels at once, and you can programme MY SKY to create your own TV
    >> schedule of sport, movies and "endless soaps". Sky says "Soon you can run
    >> your own TV station". Not only can you record two channels at once, but
    >> you can also watch a third programme from your planner. You can also
    >> pause live TV and rejoin it when you are ready. If the programme you want
    >> to watch is part of a series, you can ask MY SKY to record every episode
    >> automatically by simply pushing one button.
    >>
    >> Now this means you can record about 30 or 40 movies on your hard drive
    >> with the full blessing of Sky. But a while ago, there was a very
    >> enthusiastic gentleman on TV who said the authorities would be prepared
    >> to prosecute individuals who copied movies, even if they didn't show them
    >> to others or try make money by selling them. For example, it wasn't so
    >> long ago that a fellow from Nelson hired a DVD from a video shop but
    >> inadvertently returned a copy of the movie he had made rather than the
    >> original. He explained that he didn't have time to watch it immediately,
    >> so he copied it so he could watch it in a few days' time. The DVD shop
    >> reported him to the copyright authorities who did a full investigation
    >> into the matter, but decided not to prosecute in this case because the
    >> man was "truly sorry" he had copied the DVD.
    >>
    >> Now I can't see much difference between a person who copies a DVD that
    >> has been hired from a video shop, and one who a copies a Sky movie from a
    >> Sky broadcast. Technically, they have both ignored the requirement of the
    >> copyright holder not to copy the movie. Now I guess there is no legal
    >> difference between a person who records a Sky movie on a hard drive, and
    >> one who copies it on a DVD. If you copy it on a non-rewriteable DVD, you
    >> have to throw away the DVD to get rid of the movie because you can't
    >> write over it.
    >>
    >> Now that Sky has "legalised" the copying of movies so you can watch them
    >> at your convenience, I guess it must also be legal to hire say, 4 DVDs at
    >> a time from the DVD shop, and copy these so you can watch them later,
    >> avoid overdue fees, and get them for the cheapest price.? Surely, there
    >> shouldn't be a problem if you don't lend your copied movies to others or
    >> try to sell them, but just keep them for your own personal enjoyment and
    >> convenience (and shut up about having copied them). What do you think?
    >>
    >> JM

    >
    > Stay under the radar, don't sell copies.
    >
    > Just like in the case of the chap who copied the DVD, the copyright holder
    > has the right to pursue prosecution.
    > Sky has waived that right, but the law has not changed.
    > Unauthorised copyright infringement is not a crime prosecuted by the
    > crown. (Unless they are the copyright holder)
    > Copyright law is civil law, and enforcement is up to the copyright holder.
    > Copyright is designed to protect the copyright holders commerce from
    > losses due to unauthorised copies being sold, not for the random
    > persecution of consumers clients and customers.
    > Damages and penalties are usually relative to the number of counterfeit
    > copies sold by the infringing party.


    What about if I were selling 10,000 cheap dvd's a week - all copied from the
    local dvd shop.

    Surely that would be a criminal offence?
     
    news.xtra.co.nz, Nov 24, 2005
    #15
  16. "Jones Minor" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Craig Sutton" <> wrote in message
    > news:dm3cpk$he6$...
    >>
    >> "Jones Minor" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>> So you can't time shift DVDs that you hire from the video shop, but you

    >> can
    >>> record from TV broadcasts and "time shift" as much as you want? Now how
    >>> silly is this? This would discourage me from hiring DVDs from a video

    >> shop!
    >>>
    >>> Is there any limit on the length of time you can timeshift? That is,
    >>> could
    >>> you hold a copy of a Sky movie for 18 months before watching it, or does

    >> the
    >>> law prohibit this? Does the law say you can record only on DVD

    >> rewriteables
    >>> and not on DVDs that cannot be erased?
    >>>
    >>> Also, would you advise people to subscribe to Sky movies rather than

    >> hiring
    >>> DVDs from a video shop? It seems a much safer legal option if you need
    >>> to
    >>> time shift?
    >>>
    >>> And how did the DVD shop get the licence to hire out movies in the first
    >>> place, most DVDs say they can't be copied or hired!
    >>>

    >> I think you will find with Mysky PPV events will be protected with
    >> macrovision. Also some movies will autodelete themselves after 2 days.
    >>

    > What are PPV events? As to autodeleting, you'd have to be kidding? Sky
    > can't auto delete programmes you record on your video tape!
    >


    Pay per view?
     
    news.xtra.co.nz, Nov 24, 2005
    #16
  17. Jones Minor

    Philip Guest

    Jones Minor wrote:
    > "Craig Sutton" <> wrote in message
    > news:dm3cpk$he6$...
    >> "Jones Minor" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>> So you can't time shift DVDs that you hire from the video shop, but you

    >> can
    >>> record from TV broadcasts and "time shift" as much as you want? Now how
    >>> silly is this? This would discourage me from hiring DVDs from a video

    >> shop!
    >>> Is there any limit on the length of time you can timeshift? That is,
    >>> could
    >>> you hold a copy of a Sky movie for 18 months before watching it, or does

    >> the
    >>> law prohibit this? Does the law say you can record only on DVD

    >> rewriteables
    >>> and not on DVDs that cannot be erased?
    >>>
    >>> Also, would you advise people to subscribe to Sky movies rather than

    >> hiring
    >>> DVDs from a video shop? It seems a much safer legal option if you need to
    >>> time shift?
    >>>
    >>> And how did the DVD shop get the licence to hire out movies in the first
    >>> place, most DVDs say they can't be copied or hired!
    >>>

    >> I think you will find with Mysky PPV events will be protected with
    >> macrovision. Also some movies will autodelete themselves after 2 days.
    >>

    > What are PPV events? As to autodeleting, you'd have to be kidding? Sky can't
    > auto delete programmes you record on your video tape!


    Sports events, anything that's charged as a one-time viewer special. And
    while they can't autodelete anything on your VCR, they sure as hell can
    do it on your "My Sky", which is a kind of crippled TiVo.

    Under proposed changes to NZ copyright law, you'll be allowed to make a
    safety copy and copy what you've paid for from one format to another.
    Under the law as it stands, you can't, even though people do.

    The music industry (a.k.a. the pigopolists) is screaming blue bloody
    murder and predicting the end of recorded music as we know it.

    Could be good news - an end to manufactured crap bands and label execs
    snorting their $300K salaries up their noses as they turn local
    originality and talent away in favor of dull repetitions of rubbish from
    their overseas affiliates. Always remember that the music industry are
    the people who say that even when you buy it, you don't own it, the
    people that secretly install harmful programs on your computer in the
    name of "copyright protection", and the people that have ripped off the
    NZ music buying public for years with their gouging prices for CDs.

    And the pigopolists in the USA are getting ready to charge you for
    rewinding, stop motion, playing more than once, time shifting for more
    than a day, skipping unwanted content like commercials, copyright
    threats and dreary promo videos of performers you wouldn't allow in your
    dunny, and anything else other than sitting down quietly and looking at
    it once all the way through and then letting them wipe it off your hard
    drive. Google for "broadcast flag", MPAA, RIAA, Jack Valenti for more
    sordid details.

    Copyright law is much more complicated, and much more restrictive, than
    most people think it is. It shouldn't be, but it is.

    Philip

    Great Kiwi music every day - on Primetime 1ZZ
    FM 88.1 and 107.7 in the Bay of Islands
     
    Philip, Nov 24, 2005
    #17
  18. Jones Minor

    Matty F Guest

    Nik Coughlin wrote:

    > This is from http://monkeygumbo.com/news/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=818 (in
    > US$):
    >
    > "$0.17 Musicians' unions
    > $0.80 Packaging/manufacturing
    > $0.82 Publishing royalties
    > $0.80 Retail profit
    > $0.90 Distribution
    > $1.60 Artists' royalties
    > $1.70 Label profit
    > $2.40 Marketing/promotion
    > $2.91 Label overhead
    > $3.89 Retail overhead
    > Of the $1.60 the artist is making from the sale of their CD, they have to
    > pay out for recording studio fees, and other miscellaneous costs, so they
    > basically wind up with little to nothing."


    So the most important person, the artist, gets 11% of the shop
    price? That's easy, the shops should charge $19.20 and the artist
    should get $4.80 i.e. 33% of the shop price.
     
    Matty F, Nov 24, 2005
    #18
  19. In article <>, Gordon <> wrote:
    >On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:07:44 +1300, Jones Minor wrote:
    >
    >> Sky is currently advertising that a hard disk drive recorder that records up
    >> to 60 hours of television will be available to Sky subscribers as from 5th
    >> December 2005.

    >
    >[Snip]
    >
    > What do you think?
    >>

    >1) SKY is getting into the hardware business, al la MS and Xbox
    >2) Technology is forcing the lawyers to eat dust as they try and catch up.
    >
    >the term reasonable use has come into being for what one should be allowed
    >to do with copyright material.
    >
    >Letting people *sell* (copyrighted material), or give away on mass
    >material which others have put an effort into without reward, with the
    >idea of making some profit themselves is abhorant. The actors, singers,
    >songwriters, are people who need an income just like the rest of us.
    >
    >Note music companies have been left out of the above.
    >
    >Format shifting is the thing we are not allowed to do legally. Which is
    >just silly. One buys a CD and then wants to rip it to mp3 for the portable
    >player. Well one is listening to either on or the other, not both at the
    >same time.
    >
    >Copyright is about money. For the artists/actors/support crew this income
    >for them.
    >
    >In many ways I wish I could buy music CD's from the artists' themselves
    >and give the record companys' a miss. Still this might not work as
    >marketing is all important ;-)


    Given how easy it is to record/publish CDs these days, many artists are
    doing exactly this. A small band may well have CDs for sale ... it is
    certainly common of the folk circuit :)



    Bruce

    ----------------------------------------
    I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good
    people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and
    only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

    Lord Vetinari in Guards ! Guards ! - Terry Pratchett

    Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
    (if there were any)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Nov 24, 2005
    #19
  20. Jones Minor

    steve Guest

    Jones Minor wrote:

    > Now that Sky has "legalised" the copying of movies so you can watch them
    > at your convenience, I guess it must also be legal to hire say, 4 DVDs at
    > a time from the DVD shop, and copy these so you can watch them later,
    > avoid overdue fees, and get them for the cheapest price.? Surely, there
    > shouldn't be a problem if you don't lend your copied movies to others or
    > try to sell them, but just keep them for your own personal enjoyment and
    > convenience (and shut up about having copied them). What do you think?
    >
    > JM


    People have been doing this for 25 years with VCRs.......

    Nothing new here. :)
     
    steve, Nov 24, 2005
    #20
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