Copying DVDs may be legal

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by syofcdyagwrq@yahoo.com, Mar 1, 2006.

  1. Guest

    Story here that copying DVDs for personal backup may be legal under
    'fair use', if it uses a method which dodges the DMCA.
    A court in California will this month rule on the legality of an
    ingenious new software package that makes perfect copies of movies on
    DVDs even if they are protected with the latest anti-copying
    technology.
    The software has been developed by 321 Studios of St Louis, Missouri.
    The company says its DVDXcopy program does not violate the 1998 Digital
    Millennium Copyright Act, which makes it illegal to defeat
    copy-protection schemes.
    According to 321, the software is legitimate because it does not do
    anything that the DVD's copy protection is designed to prevent.
    DVDXcopy works by intercepting the digital video code just after it has
    been legitimately unscrambled by the DVD player, but just before the
    unscrambled code is converted into a protected analogue TV signal. It
    then saves the unscrambled video on the PC's hard drive before copying
    it onto a blank DVD.
    The copied discs play perfectly. It is even possible to copy the copy
    back to a hard drive, and then onto another blank DVD.
    Part of 321's case is that its product reinstates the right of
    consumers to back up their discs. The argument dates back to the taping
    of records in the 1970s, but few in the entertainment industry accept
    its validity.
    http://www.seegoul.com/home.php/kWEWDKIL
    , Mar 1, 2006
    #1
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  2. Goro Guest

    wrote:
    > Story here that copying DVDs for personal backup may be legal under
    > 'fair use', if it uses a method which dodges the DMCA.
    > A court in California will this month rule on the legality of an
    > ingenious new software package that makes perfect copies of movies on
    > DVDs even if they are protected with the latest anti-copying
    > technology.
    > The software has been developed by 321 Studios of St Louis, Missouri.
    > The company says its DVDXcopy program does not violate the 1998 Digital
    > Millennium Copyright Act, which makes it illegal to defeat
    > copy-protection schemes.
    > According to 321, the software is legitimate because it does not do
    > anything that the DVD's copy protection is designed to prevent.
    > DVDXcopy works by intercepting the digital video code just after it has
    > been legitimately unscrambled by the DVD player, but just before the
    > unscrambled code is converted into a protected analogue TV signal. It
    > then saves the unscrambled video on the PC's hard drive before copying
    > it onto a blank DVD.
    > The copied discs play perfectly. It is even possible to copy the copy
    > back to a hard drive, and then onto another blank DVD.
    > Part of 321's case is that its product reinstates the right of
    > consumers to back up their discs. The argument dates back to the taping
    > of records in the 1970s, but few in the entertainment industry accept
    > its validity.


    ?! I thought 321 went out of business years ago b/c of the CAD order
    and that there was no DVDXCopy anymore?

    from http://www.dvdxcopy.com/

    CAUTION: Authentic DVD X Copy software is no longer being sold
    anywhere. Many "closeout", clearance, auction and discount websites are
    selling fake DVD X Copy Software products and "patches" that are not
    authentic, CANNOT be activated or are cracked versions that DO NOT WORK
    properly and/or that contain spyware. Beware of any sites that continue
    to sell version 4.0.3.8 and that guarantee activation. DVD X Copy
    products purchased from these sites are not authentic, not eligible for
    support or updates and should be returned for a refund. For information
    on alternative DVD Copy software products, click here.

    -goro-
    Goro, Mar 1, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Impmon Guest

    On 1 Mar 2006 04:37:30 -0800, wrote:

    >Story here that copying DVDs for personal backup may be legal under
    >'fair use', if it uses a method which dodges the DMCA.


    That is still a grey area. IMO I think personal backup should be
    allowed as long as you keep the original with the backup (original
    under lock and key if you wish) and that you should not sell the
    backup or pass it around.

    There has been debate over fair use for personal backup copy since VCR
    and computer disks and was never settled because everytime a new
    format comes out the big companies try to get the court to punish
    everyone for making a single backup copy.
    --
    When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
    too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
    Spam block in place, no emil reply is expected at all.
    Impmon, Mar 1, 2006
    #3
  4. Impmon wrote:
    > On 1 Mar 2006 04:37:30 -0800, wrote:
    >
    >> Story here that copying DVDs for personal backup may be legal under
    >> 'fair use', if it uses a method which dodges the DMCA.

    >
    > That is still a grey area. IMO I think personal backup should be
    > allowed as long as you keep the original with the backup (original
    > under lock and key if you wish) and that you should not sell the
    > backup or pass it around.
    >
    > There has been debate over fair use for personal backup copy since VCR
    > and computer disks and was never settled because everytime a new
    > format comes out the big companies try to get the court to punish
    > everyone for making a single backup copy.


    At least in the case of the VCR the DMCA did not exist; so the issue was
    mainly fair use. The DMCA makes the process of backing up a DVD illegal
    as it requires circumventing copy protection; so even if the reason your
    backing up is legal fair use, the process to do so is illegal.
    Nicholas Andrade, Mar 1, 2006
    #4
  5. Guest

    On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:43:55 -0500, Impmon <> wrote:

    >On 1 Mar 2006 04:37:30 -0800, wrote:
    >
    >>Story here that copying DVDs for personal backup may be legal under
    >>'fair use', if it uses a method which dodges the DMCA.

    >
    >That is still a grey area. IMO I think personal backup should be
    >allowed as long as you keep the original with the backup (original
    >under lock and key if you wish) and that you should not sell the
    >backup or pass it around.
    >
    >There has been debate over fair use for personal backup copy since VCR
    >and computer disks and was never settled because everytime a new
    >format comes out the big companies try to get the court to punish
    >everyone for making a single backup copy.



    Of course a backup is legal. When you buy the DVD, you have purchased
    the intellectual property.

    Indeed, if your copy was destroyed, it would be legal for you to make
    a copy from a rental, friend, etc. because you still own the
    intellectual property.

    Of course, if you sold, lost, or gave away the orginal, you no longer
    own it.

    As far as disabling copy protection goes, that is illegal. So just
    how you would make the copy is another issue.
    , Mar 1, 2006
    #5
  6. Goro Guest

    wrote:
    > On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:43:55 -0500, Impmon <> wrote:
    >
    > >On 1 Mar 2006 04:37:30 -0800, wrote:
    > >
    > >>Story here that copying DVDs for personal backup may be legal under
    > >>'fair use', if it uses a method which dodges the DMCA.

    > >
    > >That is still a grey area. IMO I think personal backup should be
    > >allowed as long as you keep the original with the backup (original
    > >under lock and key if you wish) and that you should not sell the
    > >backup or pass it around.
    > >
    > >There has been debate over fair use for personal backup copy since VCR
    > >and computer disks and was never settled because everytime a new
    > >format comes out the big companies try to get the court to punish
    > >everyone for making a single backup copy.

    >
    >
    > Of course a backup is legal. When you buy the DVD, you have purchased
    > the intellectual property.
    >
    > Indeed, if your copy was destroyed, it would be legal for you to make
    > a copy from a rental, friend, etc. because you still own the
    > intellectual property.


    RIAA says this is not true for CDs. Infact, making a backup copy is
    not legal b/c "Even if CDs do become damaged, replacements are readily
    available at affordable prices"

    -goro-

    > Of course, if you sold, lost, or gave away the orginal, you no longer
    > own it.
    >
    > As far as disabling copy protection goes, that is illegal. So just
    > how you would make the copy is another issue.
    Goro, Mar 1, 2006
    #6
  7. On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:41:53 GMT, wrote:
    <snip>
    >Of course a backup is legal. When you buy the DVD, you have purchased
    >the intellectual property.
    >
    >Indeed, if your copy was destroyed, it would be legal for you to make
    >a copy from a rental, friend, etc. because you still own the
    >intellectual property.
    >
    >Of course, if you sold, lost, or gave away the orginal, you no longer
    >own it.
    >
    >As far as disabling copy protection goes, that is illegal. So just
    >how you would make the copy is another issue.


    A good example of why it's not a good idea to take free legal advice
    from anonymous posters on Usenet.
    Charlie Hoffpauir
    http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~charlieh/
    Charlie Hoffpauir, Mar 1, 2006
    #7
  8. "Goro" <> wrote:

    > > Indeed, if your copy was destroyed, it would be legal for you to make
    > > a copy from a rental, friend, etc. because you still own the
    > > intellectual property.


    I doubt that. You also are buying the form the IP is recorded on, and
    if you don't protect your physical copy, you lose both the copy and the
    license to use the Intellectual Property.

    > RIAA says this is not true for CDs. Infact, making a backup copy is
    > not legal b/c "Even if CDs do become damaged, replacements are readily
    > available at affordable prices"


    A BIG LIE by the RIAA; do you have any idea how many CD issues have gone
    out of print and are never reissued? I don't know, but I wouldn't doubt
    that right now there are over 100,000 different out of print titles
    exclusive to CD and now unavailable in any form.

    It's less of an issue with DVD, so far, tho thousands of DVD-only titles
    are unavailable, through being withdrawn from the market entirely.

    The implication that LEGAL copies will always be "readily available at
    affordable prices" is particularly misleading when talking about
    recorded music in general. I would guess there are over a million
    non-CD titles alone that are currently unavailable in any form, many
    priceless musical gems that can never become popular again without first
    braking the law.

    [Crossposted to
    alt.video.dvd,rec.music.classical.recordings,rec.music.beatles,alt.movies
    ..silent which are all currently or recently flooded with RIAA/MPAA
    politically oriented anti-consumer bullshit.]

    Anyone gettin tired of industry idiots trying to make you feel guilty
    for buying CD/DVDs?
    Walter Traprock, Mar 2, 2006
    #8
  9. Walter Traprock <> appears to have caused the
    following letters to be typed in news:wetraprock-67FF83.18084701032006
    @comcast.dca.giganews.com:

    > A BIG LIE by the RIAA


    Imagine that!

    Q. How do you know a representative of the RIAA is lying?

    A. His mouth is moving.

    > Anyone getting tired of industry idiots trying to make you feel guilty
    > for buying CD/DVDs?


    Yes, but (un)fortunately it hasn't stopped me!

    --
    Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
    My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
    My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
    To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
    I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. ~ FDR (attrib.)
    Matthew B. Tepper, Mar 2, 2006
    #9
  10. anthony Guest

    Re: Matthew Tepper

    And speaking of copying CDs, I am still hugely enjoying your dub for me
    of Geraldine Farrar/Fritz Kreisler.
    You don't have that on DVD as well, do you?
    Cheers old chap
    anthony, Mar 2, 2006
    #10
  11. Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:41:53 GMT, Gave us:

    >On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:43:55 -0500, Impmon <> wrote:
    >
    >>On 1 Mar 2006 04:37:30 -0800, wrote:
    >>
    >>>Story here that copying DVDs for personal backup may be legal under
    >>>'fair use', if it uses a method which dodges the DMCA.

    >>
    >>That is still a grey area. IMO I think personal backup should be
    >>allowed as long as you keep the original with the backup (original
    >>under lock and key if you wish) and that you should not sell the
    >>backup or pass it around.
    >>
    >>There has been debate over fair use for personal backup copy since VCR
    >>and computer disks and was never settled because everytime a new
    >>format comes out the big companies try to get the court to punish
    >>everyone for making a single backup copy.

    >
    >
    >Of course a backup is legal. When you buy the DVD, you have purchased
    >the intellectual property.


    Nope. You have purchased a license to USE the intellectual property
    that is imprinted on the disc. Period. You own the plastic and a
    right to watch the movie in the plastic.
    >
    >Indeed, if your copy was destroyed, it would be legal for you to make
    >a copy from a rental, friend, etc. because you still own the
    >intellectual property.


    Nope. It is legal to make a downconverted copy but a bit for bit
    copy is illegal.

    >Of course, if you sold, lost, or gave away the orginal, you no longer
    >own it.


    "Destroyed" IS "lost". You want a backup? Buy another disc.

    >As far as disabling copy protection goes, that is illegal. So just
    >how you would make the copy is another issue.


    It is illegal to make a bit for bit copy of a DVD.
    Roy L. Fuchs, Mar 2, 2006
    #11
  12. Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 02:59:16 GMT, "Matthew B. Tepper"
    <oy?@earthlink.net> Gave us:

    >Walter Traprock <> appears to have caused the
    >following letters to be typed in news:wetraprock-67FF83.18084701032006
    >@comcast.dca.giganews.com:
    >
    >> A BIG LIE by the RIAA

    >
    >Imagine that!
    >
    >Q. How do you know a representative of the RIAA is lying?
    >
    >A. His mouth is moving.


    How do we know when we are having discourse with an utter retard in
    Usenet? The idiot makes retarded posts like the one YOU just made.

    >> Anyone getting tired of industry idiots trying to make you feel guilty
    >> for buying CD/DVDs?


    I don't feel guilty for ANYTHING I buy. I don't need any friggin
    copies of it either.

    >Yes, but (un)fortunately it hasn't stopped me!


    Yet another retarded remark. NEW ACRONYM! YARR!
    Roy L. Fuchs, Mar 2, 2006
    #12
  13. Matthew B. Tepper, Mar 2, 2006
    #13
  14. Alpha Guest

    "Roy L. Fuchs" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:41:53 GMT, Gave us:
    >
    >>On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:43:55 -0500, Impmon <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On 1 Mar 2006 04:37:30 -0800, wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Story here that copying DVDs for personal backup may be legal under
    >>>>'fair use', if it uses a method which dodges the DMCA.
    >>>
    >>>That is still a grey area. IMO I think personal backup should be
    >>>allowed as long as you keep the original with the backup (original
    >>>under lock and key if you wish) and that you should not sell the
    >>>backup or pass it around.
    >>>
    >>>There has been debate over fair use for personal backup copy since VCR
    >>>and computer disks and was never settled because everytime a new
    >>>format comes out the big companies try to get the court to punish
    >>>everyone for making a single backup copy.

    >>
    >>
    >>Of course a backup is legal. When you buy the DVD, you have purchased
    >>the intellectual property.

    >
    > Nope. You have purchased a license to USE the intellectual property
    > that is imprinted on the disc. Period. You own the plastic and a
    > right to watch the movie in the plastic.
    >>
    >>Indeed, if your copy was destroyed, it would be legal for you to make
    >>a copy from a rental, friend, etc. because you still own the
    >>intellectual property.

    >
    > Nope. It is legal to make a downconverted copy but a bit for bit
    > copy is illegal.
    >
    >>Of course, if you sold, lost, or gave away the orginal, you no longer
    >>own it.

    >
    > "Destroyed" IS "lost". You want a backup? Buy another disc.
    >
    >>As far as disabling copy protection goes, that is illegal. So just
    >>how you would make the copy is another issue.

    >
    > It is illegal to make a bit for bit copy of a DVD.


    Not true. It is illegal to defeat the copy protection. Fair use still
    exists.
    Alpha, Mar 2, 2006
    #14
  15. Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 07:28:18 GMT, "Matthew B. Tepper"
    <oy?@earthlink.net> Gave us:

    >PLONK


    Hahahahahaha!

    The second most retarded thing an idiot can do in Usenet is announce
    their filter file edits.

    The MOST retarded thing an idiot in Usenet can do is to use filters
    at all.

    Filter your news, and you filter your mind.

    BTW, that post you made was pretty fuckin' lame, boy.
    Roy L. Fuchs, Mar 2, 2006
    #15
  16. Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:33:45 -0800, "Alpha" <> Gave us:

    >
    >"Roy L. Fuchs" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:41:53 GMT, Gave us:
    >>
    >>>On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:43:55 -0500, Impmon <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>On 1 Mar 2006 04:37:30 -0800, wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>Story here that copying DVDs for personal backup may be legal under
    >>>>>'fair use', if it uses a method which dodges the DMCA.
    >>>>
    >>>>That is still a grey area. IMO I think personal backup should be
    >>>>allowed as long as you keep the original with the backup (original
    >>>>under lock and key if you wish) and that you should not sell the
    >>>>backup or pass it around.
    >>>>
    >>>>There has been debate over fair use for personal backup copy since VCR
    >>>>and computer disks and was never settled because everytime a new
    >>>>format comes out the big companies try to get the court to punish
    >>>>everyone for making a single backup copy.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Of course a backup is legal. When you buy the DVD, you have purchased
    >>>the intellectual property.

    >>
    >> Nope. You have purchased a license to USE the intellectual property
    >> that is imprinted on the disc. Period. You own the plastic and a
    >> right to watch the movie in the plastic.
    >>>
    >>>Indeed, if your copy was destroyed, it would be legal for you to make
    >>>a copy from a rental, friend, etc. because you still own the
    >>>intellectual property.

    >>
    >> Nope. It is legal to make a downconverted copy but a bit for bit
    >> copy is illegal.
    >>
    >>>Of course, if you sold, lost, or gave away the orginal, you no longer
    >>>own it.

    >>
    >> "Destroyed" IS "lost". You want a backup? Buy another disc.
    >>
    >>>As far as disabling copy protection goes, that is illegal. So just
    >>>how you would make the copy is another issue.

    >>
    >> It is illegal to make a bit for bit copy of a DVD.

    >
    >Not true. It is illegal to defeat the copy protection. Fair use still
    >exists.
    >

    A bit for bit copy IS illegal as it requires defeating the copy
    protection to get a bit for bit copy.

    Try again. Also, fair use is about recording from broadcasts.
    Roy L. Fuchs, Mar 2, 2006
    #16
  17. Alpha Guest

    "Roy L. Fuchs" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:33:45 -0800, "Alpha" <> Gave us:
    >
    >>
    >>"Roy L. Fuchs" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:41:53 GMT, Gave us:
    >>>
    >>>>On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:43:55 -0500, Impmon <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>On 1 Mar 2006 04:37:30 -0800, wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>Story here that copying DVDs for personal backup may be legal under
    >>>>>>'fair use', if it uses a method which dodges the DMCA.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>That is still a grey area. IMO I think personal backup should be
    >>>>>allowed as long as you keep the original with the backup (original
    >>>>>under lock and key if you wish) and that you should not sell the
    >>>>>backup or pass it around.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>There has been debate over fair use for personal backup copy since VCR
    >>>>>and computer disks and was never settled because everytime a new
    >>>>>format comes out the big companies try to get the court to punish
    >>>>>everyone for making a single backup copy.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Of course a backup is legal. When you buy the DVD, you have purchased
    >>>>the intellectual property.
    >>>
    >>> Nope. You have purchased a license to USE the intellectual property
    >>> that is imprinted on the disc. Period. You own the plastic and a
    >>> right to watch the movie in the plastic.
    >>>>
    >>>>Indeed, if your copy was destroyed, it would be legal for you to make
    >>>>a copy from a rental, friend, etc. because you still own the
    >>>>intellectual property.
    >>>
    >>> Nope. It is legal to make a downconverted copy but a bit for bit
    >>> copy is illegal.
    >>>
    >>>>Of course, if you sold, lost, or gave away the orginal, you no longer
    >>>>own it.
    >>>
    >>> "Destroyed" IS "lost". You want a backup? Buy another disc.
    >>>
    >>>>As far as disabling copy protection goes, that is illegal. So just
    >>>>how you would make the copy is another issue.
    >>>
    >>> It is illegal to make a bit for bit copy of a DVD.

    >>
    >>Not true. It is illegal to defeat the copy protection. Fair use still
    >>exists.
    >>

    > A bit for bit copy IS illegal as it requires defeating the copy
    > protection to get a bit for bit copy.
    >
    > Try again. Also, fair use is about recording from broadcasts.


    It's about a lot more than that. Issues include education, library use,
    etc.
    Alpha, Mar 2, 2006
    #17
  18. Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:00:54 -0800, "Alpha" <> Gave us:

    >
    >"Roy L. Fuchs" <> wrote in message
    >news:eek:...
    >> On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:33:45 -0800, "Alpha" <> Gave us:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>"Roy L. Fuchs" <> wrote in message
    >>>news:...
    >>>> On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 20:41:53 GMT, Gave us:
    >>>>
    >>>>>On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 12:43:55 -0500, Impmon <> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>On 1 Mar 2006 04:37:30 -0800, wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>Story here that copying DVDs for personal backup may be legal under
    >>>>>>>'fair use', if it uses a method which dodges the DMCA.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>That is still a grey area. IMO I think personal backup should be
    >>>>>>allowed as long as you keep the original with the backup (original
    >>>>>>under lock and key if you wish) and that you should not sell the
    >>>>>>backup or pass it around.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>There has been debate over fair use for personal backup copy since VCR
    >>>>>>and computer disks and was never settled because everytime a new
    >>>>>>format comes out the big companies try to get the court to punish
    >>>>>>everyone for making a single backup copy.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Of course a backup is legal. When you buy the DVD, you have purchased
    >>>>>the intellectual property.
    >>>>
    >>>> Nope. You have purchased a license to USE the intellectual property
    >>>> that is imprinted on the disc. Period. You own the plastic and a
    >>>> right to watch the movie in the plastic.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Indeed, if your copy was destroyed, it would be legal for you to make
    >>>>>a copy from a rental, friend, etc. because you still own the
    >>>>>intellectual property.
    >>>>
    >>>> Nope. It is legal to make a downconverted copy but a bit for bit
    >>>> copy is illegal.
    >>>>
    >>>>>Of course, if you sold, lost, or gave away the orginal, you no longer
    >>>>>own it.
    >>>>
    >>>> "Destroyed" IS "lost". You want a backup? Buy another disc.
    >>>>
    >>>>>As far as disabling copy protection goes, that is illegal. So just
    >>>>>how you would make the copy is another issue.
    >>>>
    >>>> It is illegal to make a bit for bit copy of a DVD.
    >>>
    >>>Not true. It is illegal to defeat the copy protection. Fair use still
    >>>exists.
    >>>

    >> A bit for bit copy IS illegal as it requires defeating the copy
    >> protection to get a bit for bit copy.
    >>
    >> Try again. Also, fair use is about recording from broadcasts.

    >
    >It's about a lot more than that. Issues include education, library use,
    >etc.
    >

    A consumer is NOT a school or library. THOSE institutions have a
    broader fair use doctrine than a regular consumer does.
    Roy L. Fuchs, Mar 2, 2006
    #18
  19. Impmon Guest

    On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 18:34:38 GMT, Nicholas Andrade
    <> wrote:

    >At least in the case of the VCR the DMCA did not exist; so the issue was
    >mainly fair use. The DMCA makes the process of backing up a DVD illegal
    >as it requires circumventing copy protection; so even if the reason your
    >backing up is legal fair use, the process to do so is illegal.


    I feel that I am forced to bypass any copy protection scheme because
    none of the companies offer replacement discs at *reasonable* cost or
    free if the original one went bad simply from use. (no 5 year old kids
    with sticky fingers, no pet using disc as chew toy, no leaving it in
    car on hot summer day, etc) I've had a few fail for no reason. Yet
    one of the disc were no longer available and they are over $100 on
    evilBay, the other 2 the companies tried to charge me a full retail
    price plus shipping. They won't ship just the disc at lower cost,
    only the whole case and bazillion ad inserts. I did eventually find
    one replacement at a Walmart $5.50 bin.

    By making a backup copy I can be sure that I can continue to watch
    that *I* paid for.

    If they were to offer replacement disc at lower price or free to
    replace discs that failed for no obvious reason then I wouldn't need
    to make backup copies. Yes I know with proper care DVD can last for
    several years (100 years theorically) but even dome discs are not
    perfect a stray speck of dust in the manufacturing process will ruin
    it.
    --
    When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
    too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
    Spam block in place, no emil reply is expected at all.
    Impmon, Mar 2, 2006
    #19
  20. Impmon Guest

    On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 07:41:00 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
    <> wrote:

    >>PLONK

    >
    > Hahahahahaha!
    >
    > The second most retarded thing an idiot can do in Usenet is announce
    >their filter file edits.
    >
    > The MOST retarded thing an idiot in Usenet can do is to use filters
    >at all.
    >
    > Filter your news, and you filter your mind.
    >
    > BTW, that post you made was pretty fuckin' lame, boy.


    A real retard is the one replying to his own killfile announcement. I
    know I heard a few more PLONK directed to you that was never posted
    here.
    --
    When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
    too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
    Spam block in place, no emil reply is expected at all.
    Impmon, Mar 2, 2006
    #20
    1. Advertising

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