Confused about color management

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Artem Lipatov, Nov 26, 2005.

  1. Hi everybody,

    Can someone explain to me the basics of a color-managed workflow? I
    searched the web and the forums, but still confused...

    Let's say here are the prerequisites:

    - I shoot RAW
    - AdobeRGB is the working profile
    - I have my Monitor profile
    - I have my lab printer profile
    - I use Photoshop

    Questions:

    - When does the monitor profile come into play and what happens if I
    don't use it?

    - Aside from converting to the printer profile (I should convert as a
    last step, right?) what should be done that what I see on my monitor is
    (at least roughly, I know I'm no pro and not looking to) what I get on
    a print?

    - What happens in case of B&W?

    Thank you all
    Artem Lipatov, Nov 26, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. "Artem Lipatov" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi everybody,
    >
    > Can someone explain to me the basics of a color-managed workflow? I
    > searched the web and the forums, but still confused...
    >
    > Let's say here are the prerequisites:
    >
    > - I shoot RAW
    > - AdobeRGB is the working profile
    > - I have my Monitor profile
    > - I have my lab printer profile
    > - I use Photoshop
    >
    > Questions:
    >
    > - When does the monitor profile come into play and what happens if I
    > don't use it?
    >
    > - Aside from converting to the printer profile (I should convert as a
    > last step, right?) what should be done that what I see on my monitor is
    > (at least roughly, I know I'm no pro and not looking to) what I get on
    > a print?


    http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/color_spaces.htm
    http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/adobe-rgb-not-monitor-profile.html?source=rss

    and others. You could spend a bit of time on this
    Charles Schuler, Nov 26, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Artem Lipatov

    Markeau Guest

    FWIW There is a specific Adobe forum (which is also mirrored on their
    own news server: adobeforums.com ) on Color Management ... it has
    always provided me with a lot of info

    http://adobeforums.com/
    Markeau, Nov 26, 2005
    #3
  4. Artem Lipatov

    Jim Guest

    "Artem Lipatov" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi everybody,
    >
    > Can someone explain to me the basics of a color-managed workflow? I
    > searched the web and the forums, but still confused...
    >
    > Let's say here are the prerequisites:
    >
    > - I shoot RAW
    > - AdobeRGB is the working profile
    > - I have my Monitor profile
    > - I have my lab printer profile
    > - I use Photoshop
    >
    > Questions:
    >
    > - When does the monitor profile come into play and what happens if I
    > don't use it?

    The graphics driver uses the profile to adjust the colors. If you don't
    use, then what you see will not be what you get.
    >
    > - Aside from converting to the printer profile (I should convert as a
    > last step, right?) what should be done that what I see on my monitor is
    > (at least roughly, I know I'm no pro and not looking to) what I get on
    > a print?

    Create a profile and then tell windows to use it.
    Jim
    >
    > - What happens in case of B&W?
    >
    > Thank you all
    >
    Jim, Nov 26, 2005
    #4
  5. Artem Lipatov

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >Artem writes ...
    >
    >Can someone explain to me the basics of a color-managed workflow?


    Yes, this site is a good start ...
    http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/13605.html

    > When does the monitor profile come into play


    When you are viewing files in a program that supports the ICC color
    management workflow. The RGB values in the file get translated on the
    fly by the profile so you see the colors on screen as accurately as
    possible, depending on whether colors are out of gamut for your monitor
    or not (and assuming the profile is accurate). Most graphics programs,
    even the cheaper ones, now recognize monitor profiles, but most web
    browsers and some viewer programs (as opposed to editors) do not.

    > ... and what happens if I don't use it?


    The colors look different ... you can simulate this in Photoshop with
    View - Proof setup - Monitor RGB, which turns off your monitor profile.
    This is useful when you're having troubles matching colors you see in
    Photoshop to what you want viewers to see in a non-color managed
    workflow like the web. Typically the saturated colors are affected
    most (at least on my monitor) and usually dull down a bit.

    >Aside from converting to the printer profile (I should convert as a
    >last step, right?)


    No, most people do NOT convert to the printer profile anymore (unless
    sending the file out). A better workflow is to soft-proof to your
    printer profile (View - Proof Setup and pick the printer/paper profile
    from the menu) and then print with that enabled. The exact mechanics
    depend on which printer you are using since the driver software menus
    are different, but it's pretty simple to set it up for the Epson Photo
    printers, for example.

    > what should be done that what I see on my monitor is
    > (at least roughly) what I get on a print?


    What you are SUPPOSED to do is make the print, let it dry down (up to
    24 hours for some printers) and then view it with a controlled D50
    light source near the computer, checking carefully that the screen view
    matches the print under these light conditions (the ambient light
    striking the computer screen should be the same as when you generated
    the monitor profile). What most of us do is just view the print under
    typical viewing conditions instead, which isn't as rigorous. At any
    rate, the main criteria is that the print matches the screen. If it
    doesn't then the monitor profile could be bad or the printer profile
    could be bad (or both ... or the viewing conditions are different).

    > What happens in case of B&W?


    Same deal, print it and compare ... a lot depends on your printer here,
    are you using a color printer with all the inks (hard to get a neutral
    print except on a few Epsons) or using a Quadtone type inkset or ?? A
    good test is to create a gradient from black to white and print this
    and see if you pick up a color cast, meaning the printer is not neutral
    for b/w. With most printers you'll see a color cast, unfortunately,
    typically green or magenta in part of the gradient.

    Bill
    Bill Hilton, Nov 26, 2005
    #5
  6. Artem Lipatov

    Father Kodak Guest

    Father Kodak, Nov 27, 2005
    #6
  7. Artem Lipatov

    kctan Guest

    "Artem Lipatov" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi everybody,
    >
    > Can someone explain to me the basics of a color-managed workflow? I
    > searched the web and the forums, but still confused...
    >
    > Let's say here are the prerequisites:
    >
    > - I shoot RAW
    > - AdobeRGB is the working profile
    > - I have my Monitor profile
    > - I have my lab printer profile
    > - I use Photoshop
    >
    > Questions:
    >
    > - When does the monitor profile come into play and what happens if I
    > don't use it?


    Calibrated monitor analogous to calibrated light-box needed for viewing
    slide for genuine color rendition by the film. A calibrated monitor profile
    is needed by color management system to map the displaying colors to the
    CIE*L*a*b standard colors or simply the correct colors. When you shoot in
    Raw or any image that needs to do tone adjustment, don't you think the
    genuine color got to be displayed first before an appropriate adjustment is
    made.

    Remember, calibrated monitor is for correct colors viewing only and has
    nothing to do with good print; but printing profile needs the monitor
    profile and several others interacting in the color management engine (CMM)
    conforming to CIE*L*a*b standard.

    > - Aside from converting to the printer profile (I should convert as a
    > last step, right?) what should be done that what I see on my monitor is
    > (at least roughly, I know I'm no pro and not looking to) what I get on
    > a print?


    There are several ways to print that matches closely to a calibrated
    monitor. The first one is to use your printer color management software but
    you need to use its ink and paper for good result. In photoshop, use the
    print with preview..., color management, source space:document and print
    space: printer color management then proceed to print properties and select
    the paper types and printing method with its color management on from the
    printer software.

    You could convert to paper profile but print space:same as source and
    printer color management off.

    Another way is the same as first method but off printer color management and
    select a paper profile instead of printer color management.

    > - What happens in case of B&W?


    The same but in printer properties select print in B/W. Some time you may
    need to increase the contrast a little.

    > Thank you all
    >
    kctan, Nov 27, 2005
    #7
  8. Artem Lipatov

    Stacey Guest

    Artem Lipatov wrote:

    > Hi everybody,
    >
    > Can someone explain to me the basics of a color-managed workflow?


    Sorry, I doubt anyone is interested in writing a book here to explain this.
    It's not complex but would take more that anyone is going to write in a
    newsgroup post to explain it all. Go to amazon.com and buy "color
    confidence" by Tim Grey. Should be able to find a copy used for less than
    $10 and it does a great job of explaining the basics. If $10 is too much to
    spend, I'm sure there is soem decent free web advice on the subject. I
    prefer reading from a book when there is this much to study rather than
    trying to read a monitor.

    To answer you simple questions:

    - When does the monitor profile come into play and what happens if I
    don't use it?

    It makes the colors in the file appear correctly on your monitor. Unless
    you have generated a profile for YOUR monitor using some calibration
    hardware, the caned profiles included with a monitor are pretty useless.

    - Aside from converting to the printer profile (I should convert as a
    last step, right?) what should be done that what I see on my monitor is
    (at least roughly, I know I'm no pro and not looking to) what I get on
    a print?

    Most labs are NOT looking for a file converted to their profile, they are
    looking for either an sRGB or an aRGB file. You use their profile to "soft
    proof" your image in PS and look for out of gamut colors that WILL be a
    problem. You convert to a printer profile when YOU are doing the printing
    at home and it's easier to use some software like Qimage to deal with the
    printing anyway.

    Unless you understand what's going on, you can REALY get lost. People make
    mistakes like double profiling (sending a file to a lab "profiled" and then
    the lab profiles it again) or assigning a profile when it should be
    converted etc.

    - What happens in case of B&W?

    ??? It still has to be "profiled".

    If a lab is making your prints, get something like an "eyeone" monitor
    calibrator and follow the instructions. Then find out what color space the
    lab wants the image in and make sure it's CONVERTED to that color space. It
    easier if you shoot sRGB if the lab prints sRGB and no convertions are ever
    needed. You can use their printer profile to "soft proof" in PS and check
    for out of ganut colors and correct them. Then send the file to the lab
    with a note "no corrections" and see what you get back. It should end up
    close to what your monitor shows.

    Again I'd get the above book so you actually understand what is happening
    and how the human eye "resolves" color etc. It explains all about white
    balance and scanner profiling etc. It will be the best $10 you've spent.


    --

    Stacey
    Stacey, Nov 28, 2005
    #8
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Martin Bilgrav
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    951
    Martin Bilgrav
    Dec 20, 2003
  2. JohnV

    Turning off color management.

    JohnV, Jul 24, 2003, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    483
    JohnV
    Jul 24, 2003
  3. Cliff Spicer

    Help from Color Management Geeks wanted?

    Cliff Spicer, Jul 23, 2003, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    421
    Cliff Spicer
    Jul 23, 2003
  4. paul

    Re: So confused about color management Help!

    paul, Jan 29, 2005, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    9
    Views:
    288
  5. maruffaiz
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    868
    maruffaiz
    Dec 11, 2012
Loading...

Share This Page