conduct--see post below

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by No One, May 27, 2004.

  1. No One

    No One Guest

    One reference alluded to the anonymous postings (as is
    mine). Perhaps if M$ spent some time and a few of the
    billions to figure out how to keep the swen spammers out
    of the system, we all could be a little more forthcoming
    with who we really are. I also see the value of my cert
    going "south" with the dumpers. And, frankly, this
    particular NG provides me with my daily bit of
    jocularity. Keep dumping on the trolls and dumpers. They
    deserve all they get!
     
    No One, May 27, 2004
    #1
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  2. No One

    Andy Foster Guest

    "No One" <> wrote in message
    news:13d1401c4442e$aa6c5fb0$...
    <snip>
    > Keep dumping on the trolls and dumpers. They
    > deserve all they get!


    No! Do not feed the trolls!
     
    Andy Foster, May 27, 2004
    #2
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  3. No One

    Neil Guest

    "No One" <> wrote in
    news:13d1401c4442e$aa6c5fb0$:

    > And, frankly, this
    > particular NG provides me with my daily bit of
    > jocularity.


    this is the reason I hang around. I would stay here for no other reason.
    I hope that MS recognises the value of skilled people (many MCNGPers are,
    though I will not be so vain as to say that I am highly skilled I just do
    what I can) and provide those who don't know better a valuable service...

    IMHO

    --
    Neil MCNGP #30
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
     
    Neil, May 28, 2004
    #3
  4. They do Neil, but things have been getting out of control in this group
    lately, especially the language content.
    That is the main reason I haven't posted here recently. While I support the
    aims of the MCNGP and enjoy honorary membership, as a MVP I will not
    knowingly violate the rules of conduct (though I have done so either
    unknowingly or in anger in the past)

    --
    Larry Samuels MS-MVP (Windows-Shell/User)
    Associate Expert
    Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
    Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
    http://pelos.us/SERVER.htm
    "Neil" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns94F6CCA37F415neilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
    > "No One" <> wrote in
    > news:13d1401c4442e$aa6c5fb0$:
    >
    >> And, frankly, this
    >> particular NG provides me with my daily bit of
    >> jocularity.

    >
    > this is the reason I hang around. I would stay here for no other reason.
    > I hope that MS recognises the value of skilled people (many MCNGPers are,
    > though I will not be so vain as to say that I am highly skilled I just do
    > what I can) and provide those who don't know better a valuable service...
    >
    > IMHO
    >
    > --
    > Neil MCNGP #30
    > "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
     
    Larry Samuels, May 28, 2004
    #4
  5. No One

    no one Guest

    well, Larry brings up a valid point. There is no need
    for vulgarity or profanity anywhere. My reference was
    not intended to target those people who choose to use
    foul language; rather to point out that this particular
    ng seems to get some of the dumbest questions in the
    known universe to wit: how do I buy MCSE? what are
    questions on exam 70-XXX? where do I start? It all boils
    down to the fact that these people are trying to come in
    to the MCSE world and want everyone else to do all their
    legwork for them. Pity the poor sap that does this and
    then has to solve a really HUGE issue on a network just
    to get it back up and on line. They will have to come
    here and have one of us do it for them because they don't
    even know how to 'google' or go to technet. The biggest
    thing I've learned over the years is that you can't
    remember EVERYTHING. But you have to know how to go
    about finding out how to do something that you have
    forgotten. After all, the network still has to work. And
    if you're the one charged with that responsibility, you'd
    better know how to fix it or where to go to find out.
    >-----Original Message-----
    >They do Neil, but things have been getting out of

    control in this group
    >lately, especially the language content.
    >That is the main reason I haven't posted here recently.

    While I support the
    >aims of the MCNGP and enjoy honorary membership, as a

    MVP I will not
    >knowingly violate the rules of conduct (though I have

    done so either
    >unknowingly or in anger in the past)
    >
    >--
    >Larry Samuels MS-MVP (Windows-Shell/User)
    >Associate Expert
    >Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
    >Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
    >http://pelos.us/SERVER.htm
    >"Neil" <> wrote in message
    >news:Xns94F6CCA37F415neilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
    >> "No One" <> wrote in
    >> news:13d1401c4442e$aa6c5fb0$:
    >>
    >>> And, frankly, this
    >>> particular NG provides me with my daily bit of
    >>> jocularity.

    >>
    >> this is the reason I hang around. I would stay here

    for no other reason.
    >> I hope that MS recognises the value of skilled people

    (many MCNGPers are,
    >> though I will not be so vain as to say that I am

    highly skilled I just do
    >> what I can) and provide those who don't know better a

    valuable service...
    >>
    >> IMHO
    >>
    >> --
    >> Neil MCNGP #30
    >> "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"

    >
    >
    >.
    >
     
    no one, May 28, 2004
    #5
  6. Larry Samuels wrote:
    > They do Neil, but things have been getting out of control in this
    > group lately, especially the language content.


    That was eddiepox.

    > That is the main reason I haven't posted here recently. While I
    > support the aims of the MCNGP and enjoy honorary membership, as a MVP
    > I will not knowingly violate the rules of conduct (though I have done
    > so either unknowingly or in anger in the past)


    We understand... really we do.

    --
    Fris "It was just the froup's monthly cycle" bee®

    Certaholics
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
     
    =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE?=, May 28, 2004
    #6
  7. No One

    Consultant Guest

    larry, is bill still trying to get you to negotiate a meeting with me?



    "Larry Samuels" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > They do Neil, but things have been getting out of control in this group
    > lately, especially the language content.
    > That is the main reason I haven't posted here recently. While I support

    the
    > aims of the MCNGP and enjoy honorary membership, as a MVP I will not
    > knowingly violate the rules of conduct (though I have done so either
    > unknowingly or in anger in the past)
    >
    > --
    > Larry Samuels MS-MVP (Windows-Shell/User)
    > Associate Expert
    > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
    > Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
    > http://pelos.us/SERVER.htm
    > "Neil" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns94F6CCA37F415neilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
    > > "No One" <> wrote in
    > > news:13d1401c4442e$aa6c5fb0$:
    > >
    > >> And, frankly, this
    > >> particular NG provides me with my daily bit of
    > >> jocularity.

    > >
    > > this is the reason I hang around. I would stay here for no other reason.
    > > I hope that MS recognises the value of skilled people (many MCNGPers

    are,
    > > though I will not be so vain as to say that I am highly skilled I just

    do
    > > what I can) and provide those who don't know better a valuable

    service...
    > >
    > > IMHO
    > >
    > > --
    > > Neil MCNGP #30
    > > "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"

    >
    >
     
    Consultant, May 28, 2004
    #7
  8. No One

    Neil Guest

    "no one" <> wrote in
    news:1447e01c444b1$fab36ee0$:

    > It all boils
    > down to the fact that these people are trying to come in
    > to the MCSE world and want everyone else to do all their
    > legwork for them.


    not just thier leg work, all of thier work. As for the language, yes I
    have gotten a bit hot under the collar and used more colour than might be
    neccessary. but some posters will not pay attention to much else. Shock
    seems to be the only way to get people to wake up and realize they have
    crossed a line. If I have offended anyone, I will appologise. If they
    have not offended me, all reason, and my certification that is.

    --
    Neil MCNGP #30
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
     
    Neil, May 28, 2004
    #8
  9. >larry, is bill still trying to get you to negotiate a meeting with me?

    I believe ms still can't come up with enough cash for your expenses,
    let alone your fee.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 28, 2004
    #9
  10. >Shock
    >seems to be the only way to get people to wake up and realize they have
    >crossed a line.


    If it was only that simple...

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 28, 2004
    #10
  11. >It all boils
    >down to the fact that these people are trying to come in
    >to the MCSE world and want everyone else to do all their
    >legwork for them.


    and that's down to ms. The sad fact is that any idiot can pass these
    exams. So, when ms change the format of the exams, that's when you
    will see a reduction in this type of 'actively'.

    The problem is ms don't give damn; as far as they are concerned the
    more mcp's the better - mad.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 28, 2004
    #11
  12. >No! Do not feed the trolls!

    not even with cyanide?

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 28, 2004
    #12
  13. No One

    Neil Guest

    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote in
    news::

    > the
    > more mcp's the better


    mcp = Microsoft evangelist. it's all about money.

    MCP/MCSE/MCSD/etc = $$$ for MS

    --
    Neil MCNGP #30
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
     
    Neil, May 28, 2004
    #13
  14. >mcp = Microsoft evangelist. it's all about money.
    >
    >MCP/MCSE/MCSD/etc = $$$ for MS


    it would appear so.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 28, 2004
    #14
  15. No One

    Beoweolf Guest

    and that's down to ms. The sad fact is that any idiot can pass these
    exams. So, when ms change the format of the exams, that's when you
    will see a reduction in this type of 'actively'.

    Not exactly true...If any idiot could pass the exams, there would be no
    market for Braindumps, Cheat sheets, Boot Camps or even legtimate training/
    Legitimate Boot Camps.

    The GUI interface of W2K/W2K3 server products give a lot of people the False
    impression that "any idiot" can manage, administer, operate or configure a
    system, network, LAN, WAN...whatever. Once they get into a spot that that
    can't be found by blindly clicking on things...they come to NG's, like this
    one, or call MS support/consultation as a last resort, for outside help. As
    has been said in the past, "Even a broken Clock is right twice a day".

    Any Idiot can operate a properly configured system, as long as nothing new
    is added, nothing needs to be changed and the users are "well behaved",
    after that...it's crunch time. The reason so many basic questions are asked
    is incompetent people (hired because they accept the lowest compensation)
    are "in charge" of networks. Sometimes the job is forced on them, as an
    added responsiblity...along with desktop support, cable dragging, web site
    design, Database administration...by the way, when you are through with
    that, in your free time, could you move the furniture from the second floor
    to the third? That's a good boy! The guy is afraid to get "paid" help from a
    consultant, since that would show up on the budget and bring un needed
    attention. The issue isn't always one of cheaters, sometimes the person is
    in over their head and the company is to too cheap to either train him or
    pay for real talent to assist him.

    We all know its stupid to argue with a fool, but sometimes you just get
    frustrated with the endless stream of SOS ... meaning both terms "Save our
    system" as well as "Same old Sh.... I mean Crap". So, there is the
    occasional blsphamy directed toward some self important "Git"...the ones
    that anger me the most are phrased along the lines of; I know I could look
    this up myself, but I it's easier to ask you guys, 'cause its a waste of
    time since I'll probable only need this once. Besides you its such a simple
    question anyway. I ask you...On how many levels is a "request" like that
    insulting, depreciating and stupid?
    "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >It all boils
    > >down to the fact that these people are trying to come in
    > >to the MCSE world and want everyone else to do all their
    > >legwork for them.

    >
    > and that's down to ms. The sad fact is that any idiot can pass these
    > exams. So, when ms change the format of the exams, that's when you
    > will see a reduction in this type of 'actively'.
    >
    > The problem is ms don't give damn; as far as they are concerned the
    > more mcp's the better - mad.
    >
    > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3



    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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    Beoweolf, May 29, 2004
    #15
  16. >The issue isn't always one of cheaters, sometimes the person is
    >in over their head and the company is to too cheap to either train him or
    >pay for real talent to assist him.


    ...... and another reason why IT is in such mess.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 29, 2004
    #16
  17. >On how many levels is a "request" like that
    >insulting, depreciating and stupid?


    Remember there is no such thing as a stupid question!!!

    Well, maybe some of the questions are only stupid in the context of
    this ng, which is after all a certification ng.

    If those type of questions were posted to a more appropriate ng, they
    may not appear as stupid questions. Without seeming to side with the
    damn-ass lamers here, a quote I read once rings true - 'A person who
    asks the question is a fool for moment, the person who never asked the
    question is a fool forever....'. My issue here is with the cheats, the
    ignorant, the lazy and the incompetent, not those seeking knowledge.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 29, 2004
    #17
  18. No One

    Neil Guest

    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere <.> wrote in
    news::

    > My issue here is with the cheats, the
    > ignorant, the lazy and the incompetent, not those seeking knowledge.


    we are of one mind here, Kline. As I think all MCNGP are. too bad MS
    doesn't see it...and join in.

    --
    Neil MCNGP #30
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
     
    Neil, May 30, 2004
    #18
  19. No One

    Neil Guest

    "Beoweolf" <> wrote in news:e1tQYVZREHA.1004
    @TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:

    > sometimes the person is
    > in over their head and the company is to too cheap to either train him

    or
    > pay for real talent to assist him.
    >


    one of the biggest fights I always had as a trainer was the IS manager
    who would say "it's not worth it to train them, they'll quit".

    I don't remember where I picked up the quote but I used it often.

    "He said:What if I pay to train them and they leave?
    And I said: What if you don't and they stay?"

    fact is this industry changes so fast we are all just swimming and if we
    are lucky we will be able to keep our heads up. Training is important
    becuase we can't know it all. hopefully companies will begin to recognise
    this and losen the purse strings...

    --
    Neil MCNGP #30
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
     
    Neil, May 30, 2004
    #19
  20. >"He said:What if I pay to train them and they leave?
    > And I said: What if you don't and they stay?"


    I never understand this 'reason'. Companies that don't give their
    employee's the respect and acknowledgement they deserve, it's not
    surprising they leave.

    In any case, many companies (as do mine) build in clauses into
    employee contracts that stipulates than any training costs will be
    paid back to the company should the employer leave. The amount payable
    is calculated on a depreciating scale over a twelve month period. To
    me that's fair.

    >fact is this industry changes so fast we are all just swimming and if we
    >are lucky we will be able to keep our heads up. Training is important
    >becuase we can't know it all. hopefully companies will begin to recognise
    >this and losen the purse strings...


    This is based on short term company economics - save a penny today
    costs a dollar tomorrow, vary sad and stupid.

    Having said that, it is up to IT departments to present a good
    business case for why good, regular training is so vital. No company
    should be forced into providing training which will NOT have cost
    benefit to the company as a whole, dispite the fact it would enhance
    our résumé's!!!!

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
     
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 30, 2004
    #20
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