Computer Science or Microsoft Cerified 2003???

Discussion in 'MCSA' started by Confused, Apr 11, 2004.

  1. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Dear All -

    I have been down the long road studying for my MCSE 2000.
    After learning, studying and accomplishing this task I am
    MCSE 2000 certified.

    I am currently working as an OU Admin/HelpDesk for a large
    corporation. I am now faced with a few decisions as my
    position at work has no room to grow.
    1) Goto to college to obtain my BS in Computer Science or
    2) Continue to study for other Microsoft Certifications.

    I am looking for you input on the following:
    if obtain the MCSA 2000 certification (by completing 70-
    218) and then following up with the upgrade of the MCSE
    2003 (70-292 and 70-296) would this provide a better
    opportunity to move into a Systems Admin position. Or
    obtaining my B.S in Computer Science would?

    Any feedback would be grateful.

    Thank you very much in advance,
    Confused in Florida
    Confused, Apr 11, 2004
    #1
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  2. Confused

    DalePres Guest

    Confused,

    If there is any way humanly possible, stop everything you're doing in your
    life, go to college, then worry about more certifications. Microsoft
    certifications are great tools for learning and to help set you apart from
    your peers when you're job hunting, but of the two, the most valuable asset
    will always be the degree.

    That statement will probably start some debate here, so let me be as clear
    as I can. When it comes to knowing how to do the job and be productive in
    the workplace, the certifications are much more valuable than the degree.
    But when it comes to getting the interview so that you can sell your skills
    in the workplace, the degree is more valuable.

    With the high unemployment rate in the industry today, and the number of
    colleges cranking out degrees in IT related fields, you will still face
    stiff competition to even get an interview. And that's where the
    certifications come in - to set you apart from the other degreed candidates.

    Even if you get lucky and get a great job with no degree, jobs don't last
    forever these days and you'll be facing that challenge every few years for
    your entire working career. I have had many great jobs and have a great job
    now based on my professional skill and certifications. I don't have a
    degree, and every time I have to look for a job it gets tougher and tougher.

    It took me 4 months of unemployment to start getting interviews this time
    around. When I finally got some interviews, I got job offers from every one
    of them, so I am very sure that the only thing that kept me unemployed for 4
    months was not being able to get an interview. I couldn't get interviews
    because I couldn't float to the top of the stacks and stacks of resumes with
    "Graduated University of Whatever Podunk Town, BSc, Computer Science" on
    them.

    Another reason for getting your degree first is overcoming the proverbial
    glass ceiling. I have peaked at middle management. It is probably as high
    as I will go in my career. I am 48 years old now and have another 20 years
    of work. If you're still college age, you'll have your degree and have
    years of experience before I retire. By that time it is more likely that
    I'll be working for you, with your degree, than it is that you'll be working
    for me, without a degree.

    But then again, at 48 years of age, I have enrolled in school starting this
    summer to go back and finish my degree. So maybe you will be working for me
    afterall.

    Clear enough? Go to school!!!

    Dale

    "Confused" <> wrote in message
    news:1b50301c41fdf$f8c562b0$...
    > Dear All -
    >
    > I have been down the long road studying for my MCSE 2000.
    > After learning, studying and accomplishing this task I am
    > MCSE 2000 certified.
    >
    > I am currently working as an OU Admin/HelpDesk for a large
    > corporation. I am now faced with a few decisions as my
    > position at work has no room to grow.
    > 1) Goto to college to obtain my BS in Computer Science or
    > 2) Continue to study for other Microsoft Certifications.
    >
    > I am looking for you input on the following:
    > if obtain the MCSA 2000 certification (by completing 70-
    > 218) and then following up with the upgrade of the MCSE
    > 2003 (70-292 and 70-296) would this provide a better
    > opportunity to move into a Systems Admin position. Or
    > obtaining my B.S in Computer Science would?
    >
    > Any feedback would be grateful.
    >
    > Thank you very much in advance,
    > Confused in Florida
    DalePres, Apr 11, 2004
    #2
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  3. Confused

    Neil Guest

    "Confused" <> wrote in
    news:1b50301c41fdf$f8c562b0$:

    > I am looking for you input on the following:
    > if obtain the MCSA 2000 certification (by completing 70-
    > 218) and then following up with the upgrade of the MCSE
    > 2003 (70-292 and 70-296) would this provide a better
    > opportunity to move into a Systems Admin position. Or
    > obtaining my B.S in Computer Science would?


    Following the MCSE2003 track is niether good nor bad but it is definitely
    Microsoft. Does your organisation use "Absolutely" nothing but MS? probably
    not. I'm not going to advocate the B.S. either, but I do believe that this
    will be more vendor neutral. <grin>

    look at what else your org is using. Cisco? Citrix? Oracle? *nix? perhaps
    this is where you might look for additional certs. What do you like working
    with? Database? Routers/networking? OS admin? maybe programming? Find
    something you love to do, get somebody to pay you for it and you will never
    work a day in your life. corny, but true...

    --
    Neil
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
    Neil, Apr 11, 2004
    #3
  4. Confused

    Neil Guest

    "DalePres" <> wrote in
    news:O1AwoC$:

    > But then again, at 48 years of age, I have enrolled in school starting
    > this summer to go back and finish my degree. So maybe you will be
    > working for me afterall.
    >


    go get 'em Dale! I hope to one day as well...

    --
    Neil
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
    Neil, Apr 11, 2004
    #4
  5. Confused

    TechGeekPro Guest

    You sound like my dad! :)

    --
    I may not be fully certified, but I am fully certifiable.

    "DalePres" <> wrote in message
    news:O1AwoC$...
    > Confused,
    >
    > If there is any way humanly possible, stop everything you're doing in your
    > life, go to college, then worry about more certifications. Microsoft
    > certifications are great tools for learning and to help set you apart from
    > your peers when you're job hunting, but of the two, the most valuable

    asset
    > will always be the degree.
    >
    > That statement will probably start some debate here, so let me be as clear
    > as I can. When it comes to knowing how to do the job and be productive in
    > the workplace, the certifications are much more valuable than the degree.
    > But when it comes to getting the interview so that you can sell your

    skills
    > in the workplace, the degree is more valuable.
    >
    > With the high unemployment rate in the industry today, and the number of
    > colleges cranking out degrees in IT related fields, you will still face
    > stiff competition to even get an interview. And that's where the
    > certifications come in - to set you apart from the other degreed

    candidates.
    >
    > Even if you get lucky and get a great job with no degree, jobs don't last
    > forever these days and you'll be facing that challenge every few years for
    > your entire working career. I have had many great jobs and have a great

    job
    > now based on my professional skill and certifications. I don't have a
    > degree, and every time I have to look for a job it gets tougher and

    tougher.
    >
    > It took me 4 months of unemployment to start getting interviews this time
    > around. When I finally got some interviews, I got job offers from every

    one
    > of them, so I am very sure that the only thing that kept me unemployed for

    4
    > months was not being able to get an interview. I couldn't get interviews
    > because I couldn't float to the top of the stacks and stacks of resumes

    with
    > "Graduated University of Whatever Podunk Town, BSc, Computer Science" on
    > them.
    >
    > Another reason for getting your degree first is overcoming the proverbial
    > glass ceiling. I have peaked at middle management. It is probably as

    high
    > as I will go in my career. I am 48 years old now and have another 20

    years
    > of work. If you're still college age, you'll have your degree and have
    > years of experience before I retire. By that time it is more likely that
    > I'll be working for you, with your degree, than it is that you'll be

    working
    > for me, without a degree.
    >
    > But then again, at 48 years of age, I have enrolled in school starting

    this
    > summer to go back and finish my degree. So maybe you will be working for

    me
    > afterall.
    >
    > Clear enough? Go to school!!!
    >
    > Dale
    >
    > "Confused" <> wrote in message
    > news:1b50301c41fdf$f8c562b0$...
    > > Dear All -
    > >
    > > I have been down the long road studying for my MCSE 2000.
    > > After learning, studying and accomplishing this task I am
    > > MCSE 2000 certified.
    > >
    > > I am currently working as an OU Admin/HelpDesk for a large
    > > corporation. I am now faced with a few decisions as my
    > > position at work has no room to grow.
    > > 1) Goto to college to obtain my BS in Computer Science or
    > > 2) Continue to study for other Microsoft Certifications.
    > >
    > > I am looking for you input on the following:
    > > if obtain the MCSA 2000 certification (by completing 70-
    > > 218) and then following up with the upgrade of the MCSE
    > > 2003 (70-292 and 70-296) would this provide a better
    > > opportunity to move into a Systems Admin position. Or
    > > obtaining my B.S in Computer Science would?
    > >
    > > Any feedback would be grateful.
    > >
    > > Thank you very much in advance,
    > > Confused in Florida

    >
    >
    TechGeekPro, Apr 12, 2004
    #5
  6. Confused

    Neil Guest

    "TechGeekPro" <%username%@yahoo.com> wrote in
    news::

    > You sound like my dad! :)
    >


    I hope your homework is done...

    (cripes I hate the young ones...)


    --
    Neil
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
    Neil, Apr 12, 2004
    #6
  7. Confused

    SJ Guest

    Good questions.

    Short answer. Go to college and get a degree.

    Long answer. If you have the option, a college degree will always be
    more valuable than a certifcation in the long run.

    From experience I know that both certifications and degrees open
    doors. Also in different times, the lack of either certifications or
    degrees close doors.

    I was too smart (read "not so bright") to go to college when I
    finished high school. The lack of an education threatened to keep me
    in the lower middle class for my lifetime. I ultimately turned around
    and earned an A.S in Microcomputer Technology, a BS in Resource
    Management, and a Masters in Human Relations. This didn't happen over
    night, but slowly over a fifteen year period.

    In the last six or seven years, I've been on the certification running
    mill. It never quits. Worse, certifications expire. Thankfully
    degrees never expire.

    There have been times when degrees didn't matter. As long as you
    could do the job and had the spirit they were seeking, you were in.
    Oftentimes, certs helped get the interview when degrees were absent.

    Not too long ago, the tech industry crashed. I was lucky enough to do
    well through that period even though I changed jobs a couple of times.
    Certs were OK, but degrees got me the interviews.

    If you have the option to pursue a degree (not everyone does), than I
    say do it.

    If not, then floating some resumes with your certs and support
    experience (assuming you have a least one year of experience) may give
    you some insight into what companies around you are looking for. It
    also may just generate some interviews.

    SJ
    MCSE, MCDBA, MCSD....

    "Confused" <> wrote in message news:<1b50301c41fdf$f8c562b0$>...
    > Dear All -
    >
    > I have been down the long road studying for my MCSE 2000.
    > After learning, studying and accomplishing this task I am
    > MCSE 2000 certified.
    >
    > I am currently working as an OU Admin/HelpDesk for a large
    > corporation. I am now faced with a few decisions as my
    > position at work has no room to grow.
    > 1) Goto to college to obtain my BS in Computer Science or
    > 2) Continue to study for other Microsoft Certifications.
    >
    > I am looking for you input on the following:
    > if obtain the MCSA 2000 certification (by completing 70-
    > 218) and then following up with the upgrade of the MCSE
    > 2003 (70-292 and 70-296) would this provide a better
    > opportunity to move into a Systems Admin position. Or
    > obtaining my B.S in Computer Science would?
    >
    > Any feedback would be grateful.
    >
    > Thank you very much in advance,
    > Confused in Florida
    SJ, Apr 12, 2004
    #7
  8. Confused

    Jim Guest

    I've always recommended a degree over certifications. The certifications
    are useful, but you will be competing with many who have both a degree and
    certs. A cert is good for a couple of years. However, an education lasts a
    lifetime. If you would have posed this question in the late 90's, many may
    have recommended to opt for the cert as the job market was booming. Reality
    has finally set in. There is a stigma attached to most employees in a
    professional environment without a degree. Your educational background
    defines who you are.


    "Confused" <> wrote in message
    news:1b50301c41fdf$f8c562b0$...
    > Dear All -
    >
    > I have been down the long road studying for my MCSE 2000.
    > After learning, studying and accomplishing this task I am
    > MCSE 2000 certified.
    >
    > I am currently working as an OU Admin/HelpDesk for a large
    > corporation. I am now faced with a few decisions as my
    > position at work has no room to grow.
    > 1) Goto to college to obtain my BS in Computer Science or
    > 2) Continue to study for other Microsoft Certifications.
    >
    > I am looking for you input on the following:
    > if obtain the MCSA 2000 certification (by completing 70-
    > 218) and then following up with the upgrade of the MCSE
    > 2003 (70-292 and 70-296) would this provide a better
    > opportunity to move into a Systems Admin position. Or
    > obtaining my B.S in Computer Science would?
    >
    > Any feedback would be grateful.
    >
    > Thank you very much in advance,
    > Confused in Florida
    Jim, Apr 12, 2004
    #8
  9. Confused

    TK Guest

    If you want to stay in IT (at the non-managerial level)
    don't bother with a BSc. It's hugely expensive and it
    won't help you on the ladder if you want to stay in techie
    positions. I'm hella-smarter than most the people here at
    work with degrees.
    Think about this... let's say it costs you $50,000 to get
    your degree. Let's guess that you get a $5000/yr raise
    for said degree. That means, it'd take you 10 years
    (assuming you pay no interest on that $50,000) just to
    break even.
    If you want to go into management eventually, I'd say work
    on your degree in your spare time at night. In 10 years,
    you'll be done your degree with virtually no cost and by
    that time you'll have the experience in the industry to
    climb the ladder.

    >-----Original Message-----
    >Dear All -
    >
    >I have been down the long road studying for my MCSE

    2000.
    >After learning, studying and accomplishing this task I am
    >MCSE 2000 certified.
    >
    >I am currently working as an OU Admin/HelpDesk for a

    large
    >corporation. I am now faced with a few decisions as my
    >position at work has no room to grow.
    >1) Goto to college to obtain my BS in Computer Science or
    >2) Continue to study for other Microsoft Certifications.
    >
    >I am looking for you input on the following:
    > if obtain the MCSA 2000 certification (by completing 70-
    >218) and then following up with the upgrade of the MCSE
    >2003 (70-292 and 70-296) would this provide a better
    >opportunity to move into a Systems Admin position. Or
    >obtaining my B.S in Computer Science would?
    >
    >Any feedback would be grateful.
    >
    >Thank you very much in advance,
    >Confused in Florida
    >.
    >
    TK, Apr 12, 2004
    #9
  10. Confused

    Neil Guest

    "TK" <> wrote in news:18b3301c420cd
    $fd3e7590$:

    > I'm hella-smarter than most the people here at
    > work with degrees.


    think much of yourself?

    20 different certs in my pocket and I'm hoping to go back one day and get
    the degree...

    --
    Neil
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
    Neil, Apr 13, 2004
    #10
  11. Confused

    Confused Guest

    Thank you all for taking this as a serious topic and that you for all your inputs. I am glad to see that I was able to turn to the Message Board and post a question and receive some honest feedback. I will start making plans to finish my computer science degree as well as continue to study for both the upcoming exams and I will look into the other options that my orginization has (oracle, cisco, etc

    Thank you again!
    Confused, Apr 13, 2004
    #11
  12. Confused

    Frisbee® Guest

    Frisbee®, Apr 13, 2004
    #12
  13. Confused

    T Guest

    If you already have an advanced level cert, go for the
    degree. It'll be more versitle in your endeavors.
    T
    >-----Original Message-----
    >Dear All -
    >
    >I have been down the long road studying for my MCSE

    2000.
    >After learning, studying and accomplishing this task I

    am
    >MCSE 2000 certified.
    >
    >I am currently working as an OU Admin/HelpDesk for a

    large
    >corporation. I am now faced with a few decisions as my
    >position at work has no room to grow.
    >1) Goto to college to obtain my BS in Computer Science

    or
    >2) Continue to study for other Microsoft Certifications.
    >
    >I am looking for you input on the following:
    > if obtain the MCSA 2000 certification (by completing 70-
    >218) and then following up with the upgrade of the MCSE
    >2003 (70-292 and 70-296) would this provide a better
    >opportunity to move into a Systems Admin position. Or
    >obtaining my B.S in Computer Science would?
    >
    >Any feedback would be grateful.
    >
    >Thank you very much in advance,
    >Confused in Florida
    >.
    >
    T, Apr 15, 2004
    #13
  14. Definitely agree with below - IT may not be your
    profession for ever so therefore the cert's won't be worth
    zilch. But a B.S. in anything will outlast any downturn
    the economy could make. And will be closer to maybe
    obtaining a masters.
    Go for the B.S. - especially if the company will pay for
    some of it!

    >-----Original Message-----
    >I've always recommended a degree over certifications.

    The certifications
    >are useful, but you will be competing with many who have

    both a degree and
    >certs. A cert is good for a couple of years. However,

    an education lasts a
    >lifetime. If you would have posed this question in the

    late 90's, many may
    >have recommended to opt for the cert as the job market

    was booming. Reality
    >has finally set in. There is a stigma attached to most

    employees in a
    >professional environment without a degree. Your

    educational background
    >defines who you are.
    >
    >
    >"Confused" <> wrote in

    message
    >news:1b50301c41fdf$f8c562b0$...
    >> Dear All -
    >>
    >> I have been down the long road studying for my MCSE

    2000.
    >> After learning, studying and accomplishing this task I

    am
    >> MCSE 2000 certified.
    >>
    >> I am currently working as an OU Admin/HelpDesk for a

    large
    >> corporation. I am now faced with a few decisions as my
    >> position at work has no room to grow.
    >> 1) Goto to college to obtain my BS in Computer Science

    or
    >> 2) Continue to study for other Microsoft Certifications.
    >>
    >> I am looking for you input on the following:
    >> if obtain the MCSA 2000 certification (by completing

    70-
    >> 218) and then following up with the upgrade of the MCSE
    >> 2003 (70-292 and 70-296) would this provide a better
    >> opportunity to move into a Systems Admin position. Or
    >> obtaining my B.S in Computer Science would?
    >>
    >> Any feedback would be grateful.
    >>
    >> Thank you very much in advance,
    >> Confused in Florida

    >
    >
    >.
    >
    Go for the B.S., Apr 15, 2004
    #14
  15. Sometimes, I'm not quite sure if the compressed course I took at a
    vocational college was even worth it, let alone a degree.
    I still want a degree, though. I want to have the feeling it gives myself,
    it's not such a big deal to me if I use it to become more employable,
    experience will do that, and many many times over. Coming out of school
    with a BSc (or bachelor of information systems - im going for), compared to
    the course I graduate in 2 weeks, and walking in on the street... All of
    those levels will start off the same anyways -- help desk. Nobody will
    advance further than the other depending on the qualifications they have,
    because employers simply want experience more than anything.
    But --- At the least, go to a tech school and get them to teach you plenty
    of stuff.
    Boot camps are a waste of everybodies money, and hurt the industry.
    Universities are a 2-year waste of time for a 4 year degree, who gives a
    *#$@ about liberal arts?
    Colleges.. I haven't made my mind up about them. They're not strictly
    industry-orientated.
    Tech schools -- That's where it's at. Raw, technical skills that are 100%
    adaptable to real world situations. The best part? They don't teach you how
    to pass exams, they leave that up to yourself. All they do is teach you
    good skills.
    "TK" <> wrote in message
    news:18b3301c420cd$fd3e7590$...
    > If you want to stay in IT (at the non-managerial level)
    > don't bother with a BSc. It's hugely expensive and it
    > won't help you on the ladder if you want to stay in techie
    > positions. I'm hella-smarter than most the people here at
    > work with degrees.
    > Think about this... let's say it costs you $50,000 to get
    > your degree. Let's guess that you get a $5000/yr raise
    > for said degree. That means, it'd take you 10 years
    > (assuming you pay no interest on that $50,000) just to
    > break even.
    > If you want to go into management eventually, I'd say work
    > on your degree in your spare time at night. In 10 years,
    > you'll be done your degree with virtually no cost and by
    > that time you'll have the experience in the industry to
    > climb the ladder.
    >
    > >-----Original Message-----
    > >Dear All -
    > >
    > >I have been down the long road studying for my MCSE

    > 2000.
    > >After learning, studying and accomplishing this task I am
    > >MCSE 2000 certified.
    > >
    > >I am currently working as an OU Admin/HelpDesk for a

    > large
    > >corporation. I am now faced with a few decisions as my
    > >position at work has no room to grow.
    > >1) Goto to college to obtain my BS in Computer Science or
    > >2) Continue to study for other Microsoft Certifications.
    > >
    > >I am looking for you input on the following:
    > > if obtain the MCSA 2000 certification (by completing 70-
    > >218) and then following up with the upgrade of the MCSE
    > >2003 (70-292 and 70-296) would this provide a better
    > >opportunity to move into a Systems Admin position. Or
    > >obtaining my B.S in Computer Science would?
    > >
    > >Any feedback would be grateful.
    > >
    > >Thank you very much in advance,
    > >Confused in Florida
    > >.
    > >
    Sartan Dragonbane, Apr 18, 2004
    #15
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