Computer scammers.

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Julie Bove, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    How can I get these a-holes to stop?

    I got a call early last Friday from an Indian sounding guy. Said he was
    from Microsoft Support Center. He said a few things to me that I didn't
    believe. Like that my computer had a virus. And then he changed his tune
    to say that it was just some errors and it was rebooting itself when I
    didn't know it. Claimed he put his supervisor on the phone but that guy
    sounded like him too.

    Ultimately what he wanted me to do (I didn't do it) was run the event viewer
    to show me the errors. He also kept saying that my AV would be useless for
    this and the computer store couldn't help me. I wound up calling my brother
    who is a programmer and he told me to milk the guy for all the information
    he would give me. He did give me a phone number which is in San Antonio TX.
    Now whether this is his real number or not, I do not know. My caller I.D.
    just shows "Out of area".

    I kept the guy on the line for maybe a half an hour but he wouldn't give me
    any more information of use to me. Then I told him I had reported him.
    Which I did. To a website my daughter found. IC3 or something like that.

    Then he called back on Saturday. Angry now, I slammed the phone down in his
    ear. Then he had the nerve to call again today!

    I know this is a scam. I researched it and it is all over the Internet. In
    some cases they charge you money to "fix" the "problem". There is really no
    problem. And they will get you to download something so they can access
    your computer where they will put a virus, malware, and/or steal information
    from you. People have lost a lot of money from their bank accounts and
    other things.

    From what I have read on the Internet they are impossible to stop. Most of
    the reports I saw were from England and Australia. But they seem to be here
    now. Said they usually get the phone numbers from the phone book. I am
    getting annoyed with the calls and I want them to stop! Any suggestions?
     
    Julie Bove, Feb 27, 2012
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. "Julie Bove" <> wrote in message
    news:jih13n$ngc$...
    > How can I get these a-holes to stop?
    >
    > I got a call early last Friday from an Indian sounding guy. Said he was
    > from Microsoft Support Center. He said a few things to me that I didn't
    > believe. Like that my computer had a virus. And then he changed his tune
    > to say that it was just some errors and it was rebooting itself when I
    > didn't know it. Claimed he put his supervisor on the phone but that guy
    > sounded like him too.
    >
    > Ultimately what he wanted me to do (I didn't do it) was run the event
    > viewer to show me the errors. He also kept saying that my AV would be
    > useless for this and the computer store couldn't help me. I wound up
    > calling my brother who is a programmer and he told me to milk the guy for
    > all the information he would give me. He did give me a phone number which
    > is in San Antonio TX. Now whether this is his real number or not, I do not
    > know. My caller I.D. just shows "Out of area".
    >
    > I kept the guy on the line for maybe a half an hour but he wouldn't give
    > me any more information of use to me. Then I told him I had reported him.
    > Which I did. To a website my daughter found. IC3 or something like that.
    >
    > Then he called back on Saturday. Angry now, I slammed the phone down in
    > his ear. Then he had the nerve to call again today!
    >
    > I know this is a scam. I researched it and it is all over the Internet.
    > In some cases they charge you money to "fix" the "problem". There is
    > really no problem. And they will get you to download something so they
    > can access your computer where they will put a virus, malware, and/or
    > steal information from you. People have lost a lot of money from their
    > bank accounts and other things.
    >
    > From what I have read on the Internet they are impossible to stop. Most
    > of the reports I saw were from England and Australia. But they seem to be
    > here now. Said they usually get the phone numbers from the phone book. I
    > am getting annoyed with the calls and I want them to stop! Any
    > suggestions?
    >


    TRUST ME, you never ever get a call from Bill Gates & Company FOR ANY
    REASON. You cannot call him to discuss any issues you know you have, how in
    Hell is he gonna find the time to call you and tell you that you have
    problems.

    I got that call too. I asked to speak to a supervisor because I could not
    understand a thing he was saying. The supervisor was no better.

    NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES let somebody that calls you look inside
    your machine. If you call THEM, and they want to look inside, then _maybe_
    it's a good idea. You call the plumber, he comes over and wants to look into
    the toilet, this might be a good idea to allow him to do this. When the
    plumber comes over uninvited and wants you to wait in the living room while
    he goes into the master bathroom to look at something, you should not be
    surprised if the jewelry box is empty when he leaves. You call the computer
    place and he wants you to visit a website and enter the secret handshake
    code so he can look around at your settings, this usually works out okay.
    The computer place calls you and says he needs to look around inside your
    computer... You may as well put the jewelry box out on the curb next to the
    mail box with a sign, DIAMONDS -- FREE.
     
    Jeff Strickland, Feb 27, 2012
    #2
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  3. Julie Bove

    Paul Guest

    Julie Bove wrote:
    > How can I get these a-holes to stop?
    >
    > I got a call early last Friday from an Indian sounding guy. Said he was
    > from Microsoft Support Center. He said a few things to me that I didn't
    > believe. Like that my computer had a virus. And then he changed his tune
    > to say that it was just some errors and it was rebooting itself when I
    > didn't know it. Claimed he put his supervisor on the phone but that guy
    > sounded like him too.
    >
    > Ultimately what he wanted me to do (I didn't do it) was run the event viewer
    > to show me the errors. He also kept saying that my AV would be useless for
    > this and the computer store couldn't help me. I wound up calling my brother
    > who is a programmer and he told me to milk the guy for all the information
    > he would give me. He did give me a phone number which is in San Antonio TX.
    > Now whether this is his real number or not, I do not know. My caller I.D.
    > just shows "Out of area".
    >
    > I kept the guy on the line for maybe a half an hour but he wouldn't give me
    > any more information of use to me. Then I told him I had reported him.
    > Which I did. To a website my daughter found. IC3 or something like that.
    >
    > Then he called back on Saturday. Angry now, I slammed the phone down in his
    > ear. Then he had the nerve to call again today!
    >
    > I know this is a scam. I researched it and it is all over the Internet. In
    > some cases they charge you money to "fix" the "problem". There is really no
    > problem. And they will get you to download something so they can access
    > your computer where they will put a virus, malware, and/or steal information
    > from you. People have lost a lot of money from their bank accounts and
    > other things.
    >
    > From what I have read on the Internet they are impossible to stop. Most of
    > the reports I saw were from England and Australia. But they seem to be here
    > now. Said they usually get the phone numbers from the phone book. I am
    > getting annoyed with the calls and I want them to stop! Any suggestions?
    >
    >


    Does your country have a "do not call" list ?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_call_list_(disambiguation)

    The puzzling thing about "do not call", is it expires after perhaps five years.
    So you have to re-register, and they don't inform you when your previous
    registration is expiring.

    I just checked mine, and even though I'm still getting robo-calls,
    the registration is good until 2013.

    https://www.lnnte-dncl.gc.ca/insnum-regnum-eng

    On the registration page, it says:

    "Important information for consumers

    Do not expect calls to stop immediately. [HaHaHa... They never stop.]

    Telemarketers have up to 31 days to update their lists and to make
    sure they do not call you. You could still receive calls within
    those first 31 days."

    *******

    Your phone system may also support call tracing. But
    don't expect the phone company to actually do anything.
    It's bad for business, to help people. That would be
    "performing a service", and phone companies are strictly
    forbidden to do that (/sarcasm). To act on a call trace,
    the phone company may insist you involve the police. And
    if you did, the phone company would simply say the original
    call was "untraceable". Such limited technology. You'd think
    CCS7 didn't work or something (CCS7 is part of the protocol
    that sets up the long distance call).

    You can find articles on this topic. Policy would vary by
    phone company, as to whether tracing is an opt-in thing or not,
    or is always enabled. I think my phone company has to be
    bludgeoned, to do this sort of investigation.

    http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/1996-November/025416.html

    Paul
     
    Paul, Feb 28, 2012
    #3
  4. Julie Bove

    Woof Guest

    > How can I get these a-holes to stop?
    >
    > I got a call early last Friday from an Indian sounding guy. Said he was from
    > Microsoft Support Center. He said a few things to me that I didn't believe.
    > Like that my computer had a virus. And then he changed his tune to say that
    > it was just some errors and it was rebooting itself when I didn't know it.
    > Claimed he put his supervisor on the phone but that guy sounded like him too.
    >
    > Ultimately what he wanted me to do (I didn't do it) was run the event viewer
    > to show me the errors. He also kept saying that my AV would be useless for
    > this and the computer store couldn't help me. I wound up calling my brother
    > who is a programmer and he told me to milk the guy for all the information he
    > would give me. He did give me a phone number which is in San Antonio TX. Now
    > whether this is his real number or not, I do not know. My caller I.D. just
    > shows "Out of area".
    >
    > I kept the guy on the line for maybe a half an hour but he wouldn't give me
    > any more information of use to me. Then I told him I had reported him. Which
    > I did. To a website my daughter found. IC3 or something like that.
    >
    > Then he called back on Saturday. Angry now, I slammed the phone down in his
    > ear. Then he had the nerve to call again today!
    >
    > I know this is a scam. I researched it and it is all over the Internet. In
    > some cases they charge you money to "fix" the "problem". There is really no
    > problem. And they will get you to download something so they can access your
    > computer where they will put a virus, malware, and/or steal information from
    > you. People have lost a lot of money from their bank accounts and other
    > things.
    >
    > From what I have read on the Internet they are impossible to stop. Most of
    > the reports I saw were from England and Australia. But they seem to be here
    > now. Said they usually get the phone numbers from the phone book. I am
    > getting annoyed with the calls and I want them to stop! Any suggestions?


    It's a good thing you're smart enough to catch on to him. What bothers
    me is all the computer users out there who so easily fall for this kind
    of crap, like the elderly, because they don't know better.
     
    Woof, Feb 28, 2012
    #4
  5. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    "Woof" <> wrote in message
    news:jihgo9$4rl$...
    >> How can I get these a-holes to stop?
    >>
    >> I got a call early last Friday from an Indian sounding guy. Said he was
    >> from Microsoft Support Center. He said a few things to me that I didn't
    >> believe. Like that my computer had a virus. And then he changed his
    >> tune to say that it was just some errors and it was rebooting itself when
    >> I didn't know it. Claimed he put his supervisor on the phone but that
    >> guy sounded like him too.
    >>
    >> Ultimately what he wanted me to do (I didn't do it) was run the event
    >> viewer to show me the errors. He also kept saying that my AV would be
    >> useless for this and the computer store couldn't help me. I wound up
    >> calling my brother who is a programmer and he told me to milk the guy for
    >> all the information he would give me. He did give me a phone number
    >> which is in San Antonio TX. Now whether this is his real number or not, I
    >> do not know. My caller I.D. just shows "Out of area".
    >>
    >> I kept the guy on the line for maybe a half an hour but he wouldn't give
    >> me any more information of use to me. Then I told him I had reported
    >> him. Which I did. To a website my daughter found. IC3 or something like
    >> that.
    >>
    >> Then he called back on Saturday. Angry now, I slammed the phone down in
    >> his ear. Then he had the nerve to call again today!
    >>
    >> I know this is a scam. I researched it and it is all over the Internet.
    >> In some cases they charge you money to "fix" the "problem". There is
    >> really no problem. And they will get you to download something so they
    >> can access your computer where they will put a virus, malware, and/or
    >> steal information from you. People have lost a lot of money from their
    >> bank accounts and other things.
    >>
    >> From what I have read on the Internet they are impossible to stop. Most
    >> of the reports I saw were from England and Australia. But they seem to
    >> be here now. Said they usually get the phone numbers from the phone
    >> book. I am getting annoyed with the calls and I want them to stop! Any
    >> suggestions?

    >
    > It's a good thing you're smart enough to catch on to him. What bothers me
    > is all the computer users out there who so easily fall for this kind of
    > crap, like the elderly, because they don't know better.


    I almost did for a split second but only because he called so early. I
    wasn't awake yet. And he was sooo demanding. Just kept insisting he was
    who he said he was and for me to go to my computer. That's when I decided
    to call my brother just to be sure. But I shudder to think of what might
    happen if he called my dad! He might just go for it. It's sad.
     
    Julie Bove, Feb 28, 2012
    #5
  6. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    Paul wrote:
    > Julie Bove wrote:
    >> How can I get these a-holes to stop?
    >>
    >> I got a call early last Friday from an Indian sounding guy. Said he
    >> was from Microsoft Support Center. He said a few things to me that
    >> I didn't believe. Like that my computer had a virus. And then he
    >> changed his tune to say that it was just some errors and it was
    >> rebooting itself when I didn't know it. Claimed he put his
    >> supervisor on the phone but that guy sounded like him too.
    >>
    >> Ultimately what he wanted me to do (I didn't do it) was run the
    >> event viewer to show me the errors. He also kept saying that my AV
    >> would be useless for this and the computer store couldn't help me. I
    >> wound up calling my brother who is a programmer and he told me to
    >> milk the guy for all the information he would give me. He did give
    >> me a phone number which is in San Antonio TX. Now whether this is
    >> his real number or not, I do not know. My caller I.D. just shows
    >> "Out of area". I kept the guy on the line for maybe a half an hour but he
    >> wouldn't
    >> give me any more information of use to me. Then I told him I had
    >> reported him. Which I did. To a website my daughter found. IC3 or
    >> something like that. Then he called back on Saturday. Angry now, I
    >> slammed the phone
    >> down in his ear. Then he had the nerve to call again today!
    >>
    >> I know this is a scam. I researched it and it is all over the
    >> Internet. In some cases they charge you money to "fix" the
    >> "problem". There is really no problem. And they will get you to
    >> download something so they can access your computer where they will
    >> put a virus, malware, and/or steal information from you. People
    >> have lost a lot of money from their bank accounts and other things.
    >>
    >> From what I have read on the Internet they are impossible to stop. Most
    >> of the reports I saw were from England and Australia. But they
    >> seem to be here now. Said they usually get the phone numbers from
    >> the phone book. I am getting annoyed with the calls and I want them
    >> to stop! Any suggestions?

    >
    > Does your country have a "do not call" list ?
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_call_list_(disambiguation)
    >
    > The puzzling thing about "do not call", is it expires after perhaps
    > five years. So you have to re-register, and they don't inform you
    > when your previous registration is expiring.


    We do, I am on it and I have renewed it because earlier last year I started
    getting calls again. Alas, I discovered that the calls I was getting seemed
    not to be able to be stopped. Automated ones from some credit place with a
    woman's voice. I think because I am in the US, these scammers can continue
    because I think they are actually calling from India.
    >
    > I just checked mine, and even though I'm still getting robo-calls,
    > the registration is good until 2013.
    >
    > https://www.lnnte-dncl.gc.ca/insnum-regnum-eng
    >
    > On the registration page, it says:
    >
    > "Important information for consumers
    >
    > Do not expect calls to stop immediately. [HaHaHa... They never
    > stop.]
    > Telemarketers have up to 31 days to update their lists and to make
    > sure they do not call you. You could still receive calls within
    > those first 31 days."
    >
    > *******
    >
    > Your phone system may also support call tracing. But
    > don't expect the phone company to actually do anything.
    > It's bad for business, to help people. That would be
    > "performing a service", and phone companies are strictly
    > forbidden to do that (/sarcasm). To act on a call trace,
    > the phone company may insist you involve the police. And
    > if you did, the phone company would simply say the original
    > call was "untraceable". Such limited technology. You'd think
    > CCS7 didn't work or something (CCS7 is part of the protocol
    > that sets up the long distance call).
    >
    > You can find articles on this topic. Policy would vary by
    > phone company, as to whether tracing is an opt-in thing or not,
    > or is always enabled. I think my phone company has to be
    > bludgeoned, to do this sort of investigation.
    >
    > http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/1996-November/025416.html


    Thanks!
     
    Julie Bove, Feb 28, 2012
    #6
  7. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    Robert Baer wrote:
    > Paul wrote:
    >> Julie Bove wrote:
    >>> How can I get these a-holes to stop?
    >>>
    >>> I got a call early last Friday from an Indian sounding guy. Said he
    >>> was from Microsoft Support Center. He said a few things to me that I
    >>> didn't believe. Like that my computer had a virus. And then he
    >>> changed his tune to say that it was just some errors and it was
    >>> rebooting itself when I didn't know it. Claimed he put his
    >>> supervisor on the phone but that guy sounded like him too.
    >>>
    >>> Ultimately what he wanted me to do (I didn't do it) was run the
    >>> event viewer to show me the errors. He also kept saying that my AV
    >>> would be useless for this and the computer store couldn't help me.
    >>> I wound up calling my brother who is a programmer and he told me to
    >>> milk the guy for all the information he would give me. He did give
    >>> me a phone number which is in San Antonio TX. Now whether this is
    >>> his real number or not, I do not know. My caller I.D. just shows
    >>> "Out of area". I kept the guy on the line for maybe a half an hour but
    >>> he wouldn't
    >>> give me any more information of use to me. Then I told him I had
    >>> reported him. Which I did. To a website my daughter found. IC3 or
    >>> something like that.
    >>>
    >>> Then he called back on Saturday. Angry now, I slammed the phone down
    >>> in his ear. Then he had the nerve to call again today!
    >>>
    >>> I know this is a scam. I researched it and it is all over the
    >>> Internet. In some cases they charge you money to "fix" the
    >>> "problem". There is really no problem. And they will get you to
    >>> download something so they can access your computer where they will
    >>> put a virus, malware, and/or steal information from you. People
    >>> have lost a lot of money from their bank accounts and other things.
    >>>
    >>> From what I have read on the Internet they are impossible to stop.
    >>> Most of the reports I saw were from England and Australia. But they
    >>> seem to be here now. Said they usually get the phone numbers from
    >>> the phone book. I am getting annoyed with the calls and I want them
    >>> to stop! Any suggestions?
    >>>

    >>
    >> Does your country have a "do not call" list ?
    >>
    >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_call_list_(disambiguation)
    >>
    >> The puzzling thing about "do not call", is it expires after perhaps
    >> five years.
    >> So you have to re-register, and they don't inform you when your
    >> previous registration is expiring.
    >>
    >> I just checked mine, and even though I'm still getting robo-calls,
    >> the registration is good until 2013.
    >>
    >> https://www.lnnte-dncl.gc.ca/insnum-regnum-eng
    >>
    >> On the registration page, it says:
    >>
    >> "Important information for consumers
    >>
    >> Do not expect calls to stop immediately. [HaHaHa... They never stop.]
    >>
    >> Telemarketers have up to 31 days to update their lists and to make
    >> sure they do not call you. You could still receive calls within
    >> those first 31 days."
    >>
    >> *******
    >>
    >> Your phone system may also support call tracing. But
    >> don't expect the phone company to actually do anything.
    >> It's bad for business, to help people. That would be
    >> "performing a service", and phone companies are strictly
    >> forbidden to do that (/sarcasm). To act on a call trace,
    >> the phone company may insist you involve the police. And
    >> if you did, the phone company would simply say the original
    >> call was "untraceable". Such limited technology. You'd think
    >> CCS7 didn't work or something (CCS7 is part of the protocol
    >> that sets up the long distance call).
    >>
    >> You can find articles on this topic. Policy would vary by
    >> phone company, as to whether tracing is an opt-in thing or not,
    >> or is always enabled. I think my phone company has to be
    >> bludgeoned, to do this sort of investigation.
    >>
    >> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/1996-November/025416.html
    >>
    >> Paul

    > You are 200 percent spot on.
    > 1) Registration for the (US) Do Not Call is almost completely useless.
    > Even over years of being registered, the calls continue.
    > In order to be of any semblance of "use", there are strict guides one
    > must follow or they will blow you off.
    > a) You must NOT have had _any_ previous dealings with the caller -
    > nevermind the calling company may have dozens of different numbers and
    > some may be scattered in the US.
    > b) You,personally must have answered the call and make best attempts
    > to TELL them "do not call".
    > c) Log (write) on that famous media (paper) as much detail concerning
    > the call as possible.
    > d) The call they make after you told them "NO" is also logged and you
    > tell them in totally unambiguous terms "STOP".
    > The, go online and file a report; keep a copy of that report. A
    > month or so you may get a (form) letter which will either be a
    > blow-off (likely) or something like "well we get a lot of complaints;
    > do not expect results).
    > e) If they continue and are very abusive AND if you have enough money
    > and time then: (A) file complete complaint with COPIES of
    > documentation to the STATE PUC (your state and that of caller), (B)
    > when the state blows you off (and they are likely to do so), (C) take
    > the bastards to court and expect the proceedings to run 5-10 years.
    >
    > 2) Call trace is a total rip-off and your telephone service "provider"
    > will blow you off as mentioned. What is mentioned as "sarcasm" is
    > actual fact.
    > a) Here, get an attachment to your phone that will legally record
    > both sides (it makes regular "beeps" as notice). TELL whomever you
    > call at the phone company that you are recording the call "for
    > quality purposes" (that is what every company states).
    > b) Keep extremely meticulous and detailed records (dot all "eyes" and
    > cross all "tees").
    > c) When you catch (say) five obvious LIES and/or failures to perform
    > to what they say (i call those "lies") make copies and send to state
    > PUC and the local DA.
    > d) Press for charges against the company.
    > e) If you are told to get the police involved, then do so and make
    > damn sure you get the officer's name and badge number and that he
    > gets a copy of ALL documentation. They will do something; it is not
    > clear as to WTF they do,but the result will be zero.
    > f) Get a FULL copy of the final police report (the report is
    > mandatory on the part of the police - if you cannot get one you then
    > need to have a one-on-one talk with (in order, and all of these) the
    > Chief of Police, the Mayor (yes, sometimes politics is useful) and
    > the District Attorney concerning Dereliction Of Duty, Breach Of
    > Trust, Breach of Public Contract and i do not know what the hell else
    > might be useful. g) Again, when there is zero results after police,
    > take case to State PUC at minimum.
    >
    > It is about time that someone planted such a "bomb" under the asses.


    I continually get calls from my ISP, phone provider and cable company trying
    to get me to upgrade. Can't do a thing because I am a customer.
     
    Julie Bove, Feb 28, 2012
    #7
  8. Julie Bove

    Stephen H Guest

    Incidentally, I have a friend who had bought a 3 user licence of Norton
    AV product as his previous Norton AV product has expired.

    He installed it on three laptops, his daughter's, his son's and his own
    laptop.

    All was well with his two kids' laptops but he had problems with his own
    laptop. Basically websites were freezing on him.

    He then uninstalled the Norton AV product and then tried to reinstall it
    on his laptop but this threw up a licencing error.

    He then went to the Norton's website to log a technical call. He then
    had a web text based conversation with Norton tech support. Norton Tech
    support was based in America and my friend is in England.

    The Norton Tech support guy said I can fix it for you from here if I
    send you a remote connection request, all you have to do is accept the
    popup question.

    The friend accepted the remote connection request and the tech guy
    sorted out his problem.

    The friend was so impressed that someone from the USA could take control
    of his computer in England and sort out the problem with his Norton AV
    product.

    Now what do people think about this from a security point of view?

    Regards

    Stephen.
     
    Stephen H, Feb 28, 2012
    #8
  9. Julie Bove

    Paul Guest

    Stephen H wrote:
    > Incidentally, I have a friend who had bought a 3 user licence of Norton
    > AV product as his previous Norton AV product has expired.
    >
    > He installed it on three laptops, his daughter's, his son's and his own
    > laptop.
    >
    > All was well with his two kids' laptops but he had problems with his own
    > laptop. Basically websites were freezing on him.
    >
    > He then uninstalled the Norton AV product and then tried to reinstall it
    > on his laptop but this threw up a licencing error.
    >
    > He then went to the Norton's website to log a technical call. He then
    > had a web text based conversation with Norton tech support. Norton Tech
    > support was based in America and my friend is in England.
    >
    > The Norton Tech support guy said I can fix it for you from here if I
    > send you a remote connection request, all you have to do is accept the
    > popup question.
    >
    > The friend accepted the remote connection request and the tech guy
    > sorted out his problem.
    >
    > The friend was so impressed that someone from the USA could take control
    > of his computer in England and sort out the problem with his Norton AV
    > product.
    >
    > Now what do people think about this from a security point of view?
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Stephen.


    It's not a big deal.

    There are a number of products that can do this. But you grant permission,
    by loading up the software, accepting an invitation or whatever. And in some
    cases, the package loaded, can only maintain a connection for one hour.

    And if someone wanted to open that connection later, the LED on the LAN
    interface (router box, computer) would be flashing, for any sustained
    kind of connection. It's harder to notice that, if you BitTorrent 24/7.

    I run Wireshark, and log packets, and if there is any burst of activity, I
    check the log to see what happened. That's not a form of protection,
    but helps in the most trivial cases of attacks (like, what site did this
    attack actually come from). It is possible to disconnect Wireshark from
    seeing packets, so that is not bulletproof. If you wanted a better
    scheme, it would be to load a packet sniffer in an external box, for
    later examination.

    On the other hand, a Trojan loaded on your machine from a malware site,
    can install BackOrifice and achieve control the same way. So not all
    software of that type, comes with polite invitations. And if a portion
    of the Trojan sticks around, you can be re-infected over and over again.
    There have been a few people driven crazy by that sort of thing.
    Stalker who takes control of computer, user removes malware with AV
    product, and the BackOrifice comes back the next day.

    So that concept comes in White Hat and Black Hat versions. The Black
    Hat versions are more scary.

    It's unclear, in the persistent attack case, where the attack is
    coming from.

    Some broadband modems and router boxes, can be "tipped over"
    by an external attack. My old Speedtouch for example, had known vulnerabilities
    (and I suspect the telephone company providing that forced rental, fixed them
    remotely - those boxes can accept remote firmware updates). But to be doing
    attacks like that, you need to know the public IP address of the victim, to
    do the same attack over and over again. Many of those 5-10 watt networking
    boxes you buy, have a processor and firmware inside, and in some cases, the
    code in there is just dreadful. At least one box I helped someone with,
    the web interface for control of the box, was exposed on the WAN side,
    and if the new owner of the box didn't immediately change the password
    while the box was offline, someone could "own it" almost immediately.
    The two networking boxes I have here, are only controllable from the LAN side.
    But they could still have stack overflow or buffer overrun vulnerabilities
    on the WAN side, and I'd never know until it was too late.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Feb 28, 2012
    #9
  10. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    "Stephen H" <> wrote in message
    news:MDb3r.43651$2...
    > Incidentally, I have a friend who had bought a 3 user licence of Norton AV
    > product as his previous Norton AV product has expired.
    >
    > He installed it on three laptops, his daughter's, his son's and his own
    > laptop.
    >
    > All was well with his two kids' laptops but he had problems with his own
    > laptop. Basically websites were freezing on him.
    >
    > He then uninstalled the Norton AV product and then tried to reinstall it
    > on his laptop but this threw up a licencing error.
    >
    > He then went to the Norton's website to log a technical call. He then had
    > a web text based conversation with Norton tech support. Norton Tech
    > support was based in America and my friend is in England.
    >
    > The Norton Tech support guy said I can fix it for you from here if I send
    > you a remote connection request, all you have to do is accept the popup
    > question.
    >
    > The friend accepted the remote connection request and the tech guy sorted
    > out his problem.
    >
    > The friend was so impressed that someone from the USA could take control
    > of his computer in England and sort out the problem with his Norton AV
    > product.
    >
    > Now what do people think about this from a security point of view?
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Stephen.


    I have had my ISP do this, Norton and also Carbonite. Fine if I am the one
    calling them. However... Norton took off my Malwarebytes right before my
    eyes! I was mortified. They said it was messing with the Norton. And
    wouldn't you just know it... I got a virus not long after that disabled my
    Norton. Somehow it appeared to me that Norton was still running so I was
    clueless. I had to take it to the computer store. They put Malwarebytes
    back on.
     
    Julie Bove, Feb 28, 2012
    #10
  11. Julie Bove

    housetrained Guest

    "Julie Bove" wrote in message news:jih13n$ngc$...

    How can I get these a-holes to stop?

    <snip>


    Simple, just say you are very interested and to please hold on a moment.
    Just put the phone down and forget it. It soon gets round and the calls will
    stop. Junk mail, write across the envelop 'REFUSED' and drop it back in the
    post-box, after a few months the JM stops too.
    housetrained
     
    housetrained, Feb 29, 2012
    #11
  12. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    "Robert Baer" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Julie Bove wrote:
    >> Robert Baer wrote:
    >>> Paul wrote:
    >>>> Julie Bove wrote:
    >>>>> How can I get these a-holes to stop?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I got a call early last Friday from an Indian sounding guy. Said he
    >>>>> was from Microsoft Support Center. He said a few things to me that I
    >>>>> didn't believe. Like that my computer had a virus. And then he
    >>>>> changed his tune to say that it was just some errors and it was
    >>>>> rebooting itself when I didn't know it. Claimed he put his
    >>>>> supervisor on the phone but that guy sounded like him too.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Ultimately what he wanted me to do (I didn't do it) was run the
    >>>>> event viewer to show me the errors. He also kept saying that my AV
    >>>>> would be useless for this and the computer store couldn't help me.
    >>>>> I wound up calling my brother who is a programmer and he told me to
    >>>>> milk the guy for all the information he would give me. He did give
    >>>>> me a phone number which is in San Antonio TX. Now whether this is
    >>>>> his real number or not, I do not know. My caller I.D. just shows
    >>>>> "Out of area". I kept the guy on the line for maybe a half an hour but
    >>>>> he wouldn't
    >>>>> give me any more information of use to me. Then I told him I had
    >>>>> reported him. Which I did. To a website my daughter found. IC3 or
    >>>>> something like that.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Then he called back on Saturday. Angry now, I slammed the phone down
    >>>>> in his ear. Then he had the nerve to call again today!
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I know this is a scam. I researched it and it is all over the
    >>>>> Internet. In some cases they charge you money to "fix" the
    >>>>> "problem". There is really no problem. And they will get you to
    >>>>> download something so they can access your computer where they will
    >>>>> put a virus, malware, and/or steal information from you. People
    >>>>> have lost a lot of money from their bank accounts and other things.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> From what I have read on the Internet they are impossible to stop.
    >>>>> Most of the reports I saw were from England and Australia. But they
    >>>>> seem to be here now. Said they usually get the phone numbers from
    >>>>> the phone book. I am getting annoyed with the calls and I want them
    >>>>> to stop! Any suggestions?
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Does your country have a "do not call" list ?
    >>>>
    >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_call_list_(disambiguation)
    >>>>
    >>>> The puzzling thing about "do not call", is it expires after perhaps
    >>>> five years.
    >>>> So you have to re-register, and they don't inform you when your
    >>>> previous registration is expiring.
    >>>>
    >>>> I just checked mine, and even though I'm still getting robo-calls,
    >>>> the registration is good until 2013.
    >>>>
    >>>> https://www.lnnte-dncl.gc.ca/insnum-regnum-eng
    >>>>
    >>>> On the registration page, it says:
    >>>>
    >>>> "Important information for consumers
    >>>>
    >>>> Do not expect calls to stop immediately. [HaHaHa... They never stop.]
    >>>>
    >>>> Telemarketers have up to 31 days to update their lists and to make
    >>>> sure they do not call you. You could still receive calls within
    >>>> those first 31 days."
    >>>>
    >>>> *******
    >>>>
    >>>> Your phone system may also support call tracing. But
    >>>> don't expect the phone company to actually do anything.
    >>>> It's bad for business, to help people. That would be
    >>>> "performing a service", and phone companies are strictly
    >>>> forbidden to do that (/sarcasm). To act on a call trace,
    >>>> the phone company may insist you involve the police. And
    >>>> if you did, the phone company would simply say the original
    >>>> call was "untraceable". Such limited technology. You'd think
    >>>> CCS7 didn't work or something (CCS7 is part of the protocol
    >>>> that sets up the long distance call).
    >>>>
    >>>> You can find articles on this topic. Policy would vary by
    >>>> phone company, as to whether tracing is an opt-in thing or not,
    >>>> or is always enabled. I think my phone company has to be
    >>>> bludgeoned, to do this sort of investigation.
    >>>>
    >>>> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/1996-November/025416.html
    >>>>
    >>>> Paul
    >>> You are 200 percent spot on.
    >>> 1) Registration for the (US) Do Not Call is almost completely useless.
    >>> Even over years of being registered, the calls continue.
    >>> In order to be of any semblance of "use", there are strict guides one
    >>> must follow or they will blow you off.
    >>> a) You must NOT have had _any_ previous dealings with the caller -
    >>> nevermind the calling company may have dozens of different numbers and
    >>> some may be scattered in the US.
    >>> b) You,personally must have answered the call and make best attempts
    >>> to TELL them "do not call".
    >>> c) Log (write) on that famous media (paper) as much detail concerning
    >>> the call as possible.
    >>> d) The call they make after you told them "NO" is also logged and you
    >>> tell them in totally unambiguous terms "STOP".
    >>> The, go online and file a report; keep a copy of that report. A
    >>> month or so you may get a (form) letter which will either be a
    >>> blow-off (likely) or something like "well we get a lot of complaints;
    >>> do not expect results).
    >>> e) If they continue and are very abusive AND if you have enough money
    >>> and time then: (A) file complete complaint with COPIES of
    >>> documentation to the STATE PUC (your state and that of caller), (B)
    >>> when the state blows you off (and they are likely to do so), (C) take
    >>> the bastards to court and expect the proceedings to run 5-10 years.
    >>>
    >>> 2) Call trace is a total rip-off and your telephone service "provider"
    >>> will blow you off as mentioned. What is mentioned as "sarcasm" is
    >>> actual fact.
    >>> a) Here, get an attachment to your phone that will legally record
    >>> both sides (it makes regular "beeps" as notice). TELL whomever you
    >>> call at the phone company that you are recording the call "for
    >>> quality purposes" (that is what every company states).
    >>> b) Keep extremely meticulous and detailed records (dot all "eyes" and
    >>> cross all "tees").
    >>> c) When you catch (say) five obvious LIES and/or failures to perform
    >>> to what they say (i call those "lies") make copies and send to state
    >>> PUC and the local DA.
    >>> d) Press for charges against the company.
    >>> e) If you are told to get the police involved, then do so and make
    >>> damn sure you get the officer's name and badge number and that he
    >>> gets a copy of ALL documentation. They will do something; it is not
    >>> clear as to WTF they do,but the result will be zero.
    >>> f) Get a FULL copy of the final police report (the report is
    >>> mandatory on the part of the police - if you cannot get one you then
    >>> need to have a one-on-one talk with (in order, and all of these) the
    >>> Chief of Police, the Mayor (yes, sometimes politics is useful) and
    >>> the District Attorney concerning Dereliction Of Duty, Breach Of
    >>> Trust, Breach of Public Contract and i do not know what the hell else
    >>> might be useful. g) Again, when there is zero results after police,
    >>> take case to State PUC at minimum.
    >>>
    >>> It is about time that someone planted such a "bomb" under the asses.

    >>
    >> I continually get calls from my ISP, phone provider and cable company
    >> trying
    >> to get me to upgrade. Can't do a thing because I am a customer.
    >>
    >>

    > Not quite true; tell each one to take you off their listS (yes, plural).
    > File (yes, in writing) a complaint with the PUC on each and every
    > incident - even if that means a letter or two every week (the computer
    > becomes an ally - "boilerplate" the common stuff and use the mailmerge
    > option to fill in the variables each time).
    > Check with the PUC to see what their policy is regarding to that SPAM.


    But this isn't SPAM. It's is phone calls trying to sell me new or different
    services. And since I am a customer, I think they can legally do this.
     
    Julie Bove, Mar 1, 2012
    #12
  13. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    "housetrained" <> wrote in message
    news:jilncg$ipt$...
    > "Julie Bove" wrote in message news:jih13n$ngc$...
    >
    > How can I get these a-holes to stop?
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >
    > Simple, just say you are very interested and to please hold on a moment.
    > Just put the phone down and forget it. It soon gets round and the calls
    > will stop. Junk mail, write across the envelop 'REFUSED' and drop it back
    > in the post-box, after a few months the JM stops too.
    > housetrained


    Thanks.
     
    Julie Bove, Mar 1, 2012
    #13
  14. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    "Robert Baer" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Julie Bove wrote:
    >> "housetrained"<> wrote in message
    >> news:jilncg$ipt$...
    >>> "Julie Bove" wrote in message news:jih13n$ngc$...
    >>>
    >>> How can I get these a-holes to stop?
    >>>
    >>> <snip>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Simple, just say you are very interested and to please hold on a moment.
    >>> Just put the phone down and forget it. It soon gets round and the calls
    >>> will stop. Junk mail, write across the envelop 'REFUSED' and drop it
    >>> back
    >>> in the post-box, after a few months the JM stops too.
    >>> housetrained

    >>
    >> Thanks.
    >>
    >>

    > Those actions may be completely impossible.
    > I have had tens of thousands of callers - "robot" callers with either no
    > number or no name or both missing - or useless names "EXPECT PAYMENT";
    > and absolutely no way to TALK to anyone and no callback number given.
    > Either that or the bastards hang up the instant you pick up the phone.
    >
    > Junk mail? "Refused" absolutely CANNOT work unless it was first class
    > mail; the POD will junk anything else as there is no way for them to
    > collect postage that would be due if they took the trouble to actually
    > return the mail.
    > Slightly better: open it up and look for a Business Return envelope; it
    > is like a pre-paid envelope (charged to them IF used).
    > Stuff as much as possible into that envelope and wrap their cover letter
    > around that so your name is easily found; ADD comment like "STOP sending
    > anything to me".
    > On an ordinary response,i understand that they wind up paying about
    > $1.00 (prolly has gone up these past 20 years) and the rate goes up with
    > the weight.
    > Second time around, add strips of sheet metal but do not exceed 6 ounces
    > or the PO will reject it (i think that is the limit).
    > That makes their cost rather exorbitant to say the least and definitely
    > will get their attention.
    > Failing the Business Return envelope, you could send a similar FAT
    > envelope to them, BUT make damn sure that your name and / or address is
    > not on anything in or on the envelope - otherwise the dead letter
    > department will trace you down and charge postage.
    > Naturally, the business will not know where this SPAM is coming from, so
    > they will have no incentive to stop sending junk to you, but if they see
    > too much of this from a given ZIP code they may eventually decrease
    > mailings to that zip.


    Most of my "junk" mail is coming from companies I have ordered from. So I
    don't think I can do a thing about their catalogs. I mostly just recycle
    them.
     
    Julie Bove, Mar 1, 2012
    #14
  15. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    "Robert Baer" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Julie Bove wrote:
    >> "Robert Baer"<> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Julie Bove wrote:
    >>>> Robert Baer wrote:
    >>>>> Paul wrote:
    >>>>>> Julie Bove wrote:
    >>>>>>> How can I get these a-holes to stop?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I got a call early last Friday from an Indian sounding guy. Said he
    >>>>>>> was from Microsoft Support Center. He said a few things to me that I
    >>>>>>> didn't believe. Like that my computer had a virus. And then he
    >>>>>>> changed his tune to say that it was just some errors and it was
    >>>>>>> rebooting itself when I didn't know it. Claimed he put his
    >>>>>>> supervisor on the phone but that guy sounded like him too.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Ultimately what he wanted me to do (I didn't do it) was run the
    >>>>>>> event viewer to show me the errors. He also kept saying that my AV
    >>>>>>> would be useless for this and the computer store couldn't help me.
    >>>>>>> I wound up calling my brother who is a programmer and he told me to
    >>>>>>> milk the guy for all the information he would give me. He did give
    >>>>>>> me a phone number which is in San Antonio TX. Now whether this is
    >>>>>>> his real number or not, I do not know. My caller I.D. just shows
    >>>>>>> "Out of area". I kept the guy on the line for maybe a half an hour
    >>>>>>> but
    >>>>>>> he wouldn't
    >>>>>>> give me any more information of use to me. Then I told him I had
    >>>>>>> reported him. Which I did. To a website my daughter found. IC3 or
    >>>>>>> something like that.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Then he called back on Saturday. Angry now, I slammed the phone down
    >>>>>>> in his ear. Then he had the nerve to call again today!
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> I know this is a scam. I researched it and it is all over the
    >>>>>>> Internet. In some cases they charge you money to "fix" the
    >>>>>>> "problem". There is really no problem. And they will get you to
    >>>>>>> download something so they can access your computer where they will
    >>>>>>> put a virus, malware, and/or steal information from you. People
    >>>>>>> have lost a lot of money from their bank accounts and other things.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> From what I have read on the Internet they are impossible to stop.
    >>>>>>> Most of the reports I saw were from England and Australia. But they
    >>>>>>> seem to be here now. Said they usually get the phone numbers from
    >>>>>>> the phone book. I am getting annoyed with the calls and I want them
    >>>>>>> to stop! Any suggestions?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Does your country have a "do not call" list ?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_call_list_(disambiguation)
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> The puzzling thing about "do not call", is it expires after perhaps
    >>>>>> five years.
    >>>>>> So you have to re-register, and they don't inform you when your
    >>>>>> previous registration is expiring.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I just checked mine, and even though I'm still getting robo-calls,
    >>>>>> the registration is good until 2013.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> https://www.lnnte-dncl.gc.ca/insnum-regnum-eng
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> On the registration page, it says:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "Important information for consumers
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Do not expect calls to stop immediately. [HaHaHa... They never stop.]
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Telemarketers have up to 31 days to update their lists and to make
    >>>>>> sure they do not call you. You could still receive calls within
    >>>>>> those first 31 days."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> *******
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Your phone system may also support call tracing. But
    >>>>>> don't expect the phone company to actually do anything.
    >>>>>> It's bad for business, to help people. That would be
    >>>>>> "performing a service", and phone companies are strictly
    >>>>>> forbidden to do that (/sarcasm). To act on a call trace,
    >>>>>> the phone company may insist you involve the police. And
    >>>>>> if you did, the phone company would simply say the original
    >>>>>> call was "untraceable". Such limited technology. You'd think
    >>>>>> CCS7 didn't work or something (CCS7 is part of the protocol
    >>>>>> that sets up the long distance call).
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> You can find articles on this topic. Policy would vary by
    >>>>>> phone company, as to whether tracing is an opt-in thing or not,
    >>>>>> or is always enabled. I think my phone company has to be
    >>>>>> bludgeoned, to do this sort of investigation.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://mailman.anu.edu.au/pipermail/link/1996-November/025416.html
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Paul
    >>>>> You are 200 percent spot on.
    >>>>> 1) Registration for the (US) Do Not Call is almost completely useless.
    >>>>> Even over years of being registered, the calls continue.
    >>>>> In order to be of any semblance of "use", there are strict guides one
    >>>>> must follow or they will blow you off.
    >>>>> a) You must NOT have had _any_ previous dealings with the caller -
    >>>>> nevermind the calling company may have dozens of different numbers and
    >>>>> some may be scattered in the US.
    >>>>> b) You,personally must have answered the call and make best
    >>>>> attempts
    >>>>> to TELL them "do not call".
    >>>>> c) Log (write) on that famous media (paper) as much detail
    >>>>> concerning
    >>>>> the call as possible.
    >>>>> d) The call they make after you told them "NO" is also logged and
    >>>>> you
    >>>>> tell them in totally unambiguous terms "STOP".
    >>>>> The, go online and file a report; keep a copy of that report. A
    >>>>> month or so you may get a (form) letter which will either be a
    >>>>> blow-off (likely) or something like "well we get a lot of complaints;
    >>>>> do not expect results).
    >>>>> e) If they continue and are very abusive AND if you have enough
    >>>>> money
    >>>>> and time then: (A) file complete complaint with COPIES of
    >>>>> documentation to the STATE PUC (your state and that of caller), (B)
    >>>>> when the state blows you off (and they are likely to do so), (C) take
    >>>>> the bastards to court and expect the proceedings to run 5-10 years.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> 2) Call trace is a total rip-off and your telephone service "provider"
    >>>>> will blow you off as mentioned. What is mentioned as "sarcasm" is
    >>>>> actual fact.
    >>>>> a) Here, get an attachment to your phone that will legally record
    >>>>> both sides (it makes regular "beeps" as notice). TELL whomever you
    >>>>> call at the phone company that you are recording the call "for
    >>>>> quality purposes" (that is what every company states).
    >>>>> b) Keep extremely meticulous and detailed records (dot all "eyes"
    >>>>> and
    >>>>> cross all "tees").
    >>>>> c) When you catch (say) five obvious LIES and/or failures to
    >>>>> perform
    >>>>> to what they say (i call those "lies") make copies and send to state
    >>>>> PUC and the local DA.
    >>>>> d) Press for charges against the company.
    >>>>> e) If you are told to get the police involved, then do so and make
    >>>>> damn sure you get the officer's name and badge number and that he
    >>>>> gets a copy of ALL documentation. They will do something; it is not
    >>>>> clear as to WTF they do,but the result will be zero.
    >>>>> f) Get a FULL copy of the final police report (the report is
    >>>>> mandatory on the part of the police - if you cannot get one you then
    >>>>> need to have a one-on-one talk with (in order, and all of these) the
    >>>>> Chief of Police, the Mayor (yes, sometimes politics is useful) and
    >>>>> the District Attorney concerning Dereliction Of Duty, Breach Of
    >>>>> Trust, Breach of Public Contract and i do not know what the hell else
    >>>>> might be useful. g) Again, when there is zero results after
    >>>>> police,
    >>>>> take case to State PUC at minimum.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It is about time that someone planted such a "bomb" under the
    >>>>> asses.
    >>>>
    >>>> I continually get calls from my ISP, phone provider and cable company
    >>>> trying
    >>>> to get me to upgrade. Can't do a thing because I am a customer.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> Not quite true; tell each one to take you off their listS (yes,
    >>> plural).
    >>> File (yes, in writing) a complaint with the PUC on each and every
    >>> incident - even if that means a letter or two every week (the computer
    >>> becomes an ally - "boilerplate" the common stuff and use the mailmerge
    >>> option to fill in the variables each time).
    >>> Check with the PUC to see what their policy is regarding to that SPAM.

    >>
    >> But this isn't SPAM. It's is phone calls trying to sell me new or
    >> different
    >> services. And since I am a customer, I think they can legally do this.
    >>
    >>

    > What is the definition of "weed"? It is a plant that you do not want and
    > may include the attribute of growing or spreading too much.
    > So, to one, a rosebush can be a weed.
    > SPAM can be _any_ offensive e-mail which certainly can include
    > advertisements of all sorts.
    > Say Target continually sends e-mail ads on its glassware because once
    > you bought one drinking glass (am being silly on purpose but it could
    > happen).
    > You do not want those ads - in fact,you do not want any ads from them.
    > One way or another you tell them to cease and desist.
    > They must honor your request.
    > By the same token, if Qwest (nasty "providers") did as you mentioned,
    > you have the right and privilege to tell them to STOP and they must.
    > The phone and lines are provided as a service which you PAY for; you are
    > not paying for shill service.
    > Now, be advised that they can stuff their billing envelope with a half
    > of a flat tree along with the bill and you have very little say to them
    > about the loss of the forest.
    > Check with the PUC.


    I am *not* getting e-mails. These are phone calls.
     
    Julie Bove, Mar 1, 2012
    #15
  16. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    "Robert Baer" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Julie Bove wrote:
    >> "Robert Baer"<> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Julie Bove wrote:
    >>>> "housetrained"<> wrote in message
    >>>> news:jilncg$ipt$...
    >>>>> "Julie Bove" wrote in message news:jih13n$ngc$...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> How can I get these a-holes to stop?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> <snip>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Simple, just say you are very interested and to please hold on a
    >>>>> moment.
    >>>>> Just put the phone down and forget it. It soon gets round and the
    >>>>> calls
    >>>>> will stop. Junk mail, write across the envelop 'REFUSED' and drop it
    >>>>> back
    >>>>> in the post-box, after a few months the JM stops too.
    >>>>> housetrained
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> Those actions may be completely impossible.
    >>> I have had tens of thousands of callers - "robot" callers with either
    >>> no
    >>> number or no name or both missing - or useless names "EXPECT PAYMENT";
    >>> and absolutely no way to TALK to anyone and no callback number given.
    >>> Either that or the bastards hang up the instant you pick up the
    >>> phone.
    >>>
    >>> Junk mail? "Refused" absolutely CANNOT work unless it was first class
    >>> mail; the POD will junk anything else as there is no way for them to
    >>> collect postage that would be due if they took the trouble to actually
    >>> return the mail.
    >>> Slightly better: open it up and look for a Business Return envelope;
    >>> it
    >>> is like a pre-paid envelope (charged to them IF used).
    >>> Stuff as much as possible into that envelope and wrap their cover
    >>> letter
    >>> around that so your name is easily found; ADD comment like "STOP sending
    >>> anything to me".
    >>> On an ordinary response,i understand that they wind up paying about
    >>> $1.00 (prolly has gone up these past 20 years) and the rate goes up with
    >>> the weight.
    >>> Second time around, add strips of sheet metal but do not exceed 6
    >>> ounces
    >>> or the PO will reject it (i think that is the limit).
    >>> That makes their cost rather exorbitant to say the least and
    >>> definitely
    >>> will get their attention.
    >>> Failing the Business Return envelope, you could send a similar FAT
    >>> envelope to them, BUT make damn sure that your name and / or address is
    >>> not on anything in or on the envelope - otherwise the dead letter
    >>> department will trace you down and charge postage.
    >>> Naturally, the business will not know where this SPAM is coming from,
    >>> so
    >>> they will have no incentive to stop sending junk to you, but if they see
    >>> too much of this from a given ZIP code they may eventually decrease
    >>> mailings to that zip.

    >>
    >> Most of my "junk" mail is coming from companies I have ordered from. So
    >> I
    >> don't think I can do a thing about their catalogs. I mostly just recycle
    >> them.
    >>
    >>

    > Well, junk mail can be stopped by write/call/e-mail the company and
    > asking to be removed from their list.
    > Contact the National Do Not Mail List – Get Rid of Junk Mail via
    > www.directmail.com/junk_mail/.


    But it's not considered junk if you order from them.
     
    Julie Bove, Mar 2, 2012
    #16
  17. Julie Bove

    osto Guest

    "Julie Bove" wrote in message news:jiplc1$i7o$...


    "Robert Baer" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Julie Bove wrote:
    >> "Robert Baer"<> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Julie Bove wrote:
    >>>> "housetrained"<> wrote in message
    >>>> news:jilncg$ipt$...
    >>>>> "Julie Bove" wrote in message news:jih13n$ngc$...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> How can I get these a-holes to stop?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> <snip>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Simple, just say you are very interested and to please hold on a
    >>>>> moment.
    >>>>> Just put the phone down and forget it. It soon gets round and the
    >>>>> calls
    >>>>> will stop. Junk mail, write across the envelop 'REFUSED' and drop it
    >>>>> back
    >>>>> in the post-box, after a few months the JM stops too.
    >>>>> housetrained
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> Those actions may be completely impossible.
    >>> I have had tens of thousands of callers - "robot" callers with either
    >>> no
    >>> number or no name or both missing - or useless names "EXPECT PAYMENT";
    >>> and absolutely no way to TALK to anyone and no callback number given.
    >>> Either that or the bastards hang up the instant you pick up the
    >>> phone.
    >>>
    >>> Junk mail? "Refused" absolutely CANNOT work unless it was first class
    >>> mail; the POD will junk anything else as there is no way for them to
    >>> collect postage that would be due if they took the trouble to actually
    >>> return the mail.
    >>> Slightly better: open it up and look for a Business Return envelope;
    >>> it
    >>> is like a pre-paid envelope (charged to them IF used).
    >>> Stuff as much as possible into that envelope and wrap their cover
    >>> letter
    >>> around that so your name is easily found; ADD comment like "STOP sending
    >>> anything to me".
    >>> On an ordinary response,i understand that they wind up paying about
    >>> $1.00 (prolly has gone up these past 20 years) and the rate goes up with
    >>> the weight.
    >>> Second time around, add strips of sheet metal but do not exceed 6
    >>> ounces
    >>> or the PO will reject it (i think that is the limit).
    >>> That makes their cost rather exorbitant to say the least and
    >>> definitely
    >>> will get their attention.
    >>> Failing the Business Return envelope, you could send a similar FAT
    >>> envelope to them, BUT make damn sure that your name and / or address is
    >>> not on anything in or on the envelope - otherwise the dead letter
    >>> department will trace you down and charge postage.
    >>> Naturally, the business will not know where this SPAM is coming from,
    >>> so
    >>> they will have no incentive to stop sending junk to you, but if they see
    >>> too much of this from a given ZIP code they may eventually decrease
    >>> mailings to that zip.

    >>
    >> Most of my "junk" mail is coming from companies I have ordered from. So
    >> I
    >> don't think I can do a thing about their catalogs. I mostly just recycle
    >> them.
    >>
    >>

    > Well, junk mail can be stopped by write/call/e-mail the company and
    > asking to be removed from their list.
    > Contact the National Do Not Mail List – Get Rid of Junk Mail via
    > www.directmail.com/junk_mail/.


    But it's not considered junk if you order from them.


    For unwanted telephone calls, buy a cheap high pitched personal alarm and
    trigger it. They rarely call again.
     
    osto, Mar 8, 2012
    #17
  18. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    "osto" <> wrote in message
    news:vSV5r.15038$2...
    >
    >
    > "Julie Bove" wrote in message news:jiplc1$i7o$...
    >
    >
    > "Robert Baer" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Julie Bove wrote:
    >>> "Robert Baer"<> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> Julie Bove wrote:
    >>>>> "housetrained"<> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:jilncg$ipt$...
    >>>>>> "Julie Bove" wrote in message news:jih13n$ngc$...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> How can I get these a-holes to stop?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> <snip>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Simple, just say you are very interested and to please hold on a
    >>>>>> moment.
    >>>>>> Just put the phone down and forget it. It soon gets round and the
    >>>>>> calls
    >>>>>> will stop. Junk mail, write across the envelop 'REFUSED' and drop it
    >>>>>> back
    >>>>>> in the post-box, after a few months the JM stops too.
    >>>>>> housetrained
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Thanks.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>> Those actions may be completely impossible.
    >>>> I have had tens of thousands of callers - "robot" callers with
    >>>> either no
    >>>> number or no name or both missing - or useless names "EXPECT PAYMENT";
    >>>> and absolutely no way to TALK to anyone and no callback number given.
    >>>> Either that or the bastards hang up the instant you pick up the
    >>>> phone.
    >>>>
    >>>> Junk mail? "Refused" absolutely CANNOT work unless it was first
    >>>> class
    >>>> mail; the POD will junk anything else as there is no way for them to
    >>>> collect postage that would be due if they took the trouble to actually
    >>>> return the mail.
    >>>> Slightly better: open it up and look for a Business Return envelope;
    >>>> it
    >>>> is like a pre-paid envelope (charged to them IF used).
    >>>> Stuff as much as possible into that envelope and wrap their cover
    >>>> letter
    >>>> around that so your name is easily found; ADD comment like "STOP
    >>>> sending
    >>>> anything to me".
    >>>> On an ordinary response,i understand that they wind up paying about
    >>>> $1.00 (prolly has gone up these past 20 years) and the rate goes up
    >>>> with
    >>>> the weight.
    >>>> Second time around, add strips of sheet metal but do not exceed 6
    >>>> ounces
    >>>> or the PO will reject it (i think that is the limit).
    >>>> That makes their cost rather exorbitant to say the least and
    >>>> definitely
    >>>> will get their attention.
    >>>> Failing the Business Return envelope, you could send a similar FAT
    >>>> envelope to them, BUT make damn sure that your name and / or address is
    >>>> not on anything in or on the envelope - otherwise the dead letter
    >>>> department will trace you down and charge postage.
    >>>> Naturally, the business will not know where this SPAM is coming
    >>>> from, so
    >>>> they will have no incentive to stop sending junk to you, but if they
    >>>> see
    >>>> too much of this from a given ZIP code they may eventually decrease
    >>>> mailings to that zip.
    >>>
    >>> Most of my "junk" mail is coming from companies I have ordered from. So
    >>> I
    >>> don't think I can do a thing about their catalogs. I mostly just
    >>> recycle
    >>> them.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Well, junk mail can be stopped by write/call/e-mail the company and
    >> asking to be removed from their list.
    >> Contact the National Do Not Mail List - Get Rid of Junk Mail via
    >> www.directmail.com/junk_mail/.

    >
    > But it's not considered junk if you order from them.
    >
    >
    > For unwanted telephone calls, buy a cheap high pitched personal alarm and
    > trigger it. They rarely call again.


    Thanks!
     
    Julie Bove, Mar 9, 2012
    #18
    1. Advertising

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