Computer monitoring software

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by Greg, Nov 4, 2005.

  1. Greg

    Greg Guest

    Greetings all. I was looking around on the newsgroups for info about
    computer monitoring software. This seemed the best one to start with.

    I'm a father of one teenaged daughter, and another teeneager-to-be (not
    too soon, thank the Gods!) My wife and I can't be over her shoulder
    all the time, but we want to know EVERYTHING that goes on on that
    computer. Any suggestions for good computer monitoring software? I
    prefer one that can monitor email, IMs, downloads (i.e. P2P), the
    works. What are the pros and cons of each program?

    Thanks for your suggestions.

    Greg
     
    Greg, Nov 4, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. From: "Greg" <>

    | Greetings all. I was looking around on the newsgroups for info about
    | computer monitoring software. This seemed the best one to start with.
    |
    | I'm a father of one teenaged daughter, and another teeneager-to-be (not
    | too soon, thank the Gods!) My wife and I can't be over her shoulder
    | all the time, but we want to know EVERYTHING that goes on on that
    | computer. Any suggestions for good computer monitoring software? I
    | prefer one that can monitor email, IMs, downloads (i.e. P2P), the
    | works. What are the pros and cons of each program?
    |
    | Thanks for your suggestions.
    |
    | Greg

    I think you are going in the wrong direction. Instead of letting them do what they want and
    monitoring them you should be locking down the system and blocking what you don't want them
    to be doing.

    --
    Dave
    http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
    http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
     
    David H. Lipman, Nov 4, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Greg

    Greg Guest

    Dave,
    Good point, and don't think we haven't gone that route. We've used
    parental controls, limited use of the computer, monitored use, removed
    other web browsers that don't have such controls, etc... You and I
    both know there's always a way around every obstacle. :) Kids will
    find them. I did.

    My main reason for wanting to monitor activity instead of block it is
    then I'd be able to intervene if something really serious is going on.
    For example, before the kids got wise to parental controls and how to
    bypass them, I learned that one of her friends was self mutilating, and
    another was being molested. Thankfully it wasn't my kid, but could
    have been. If something like that is going on, I want every possible
    avenue open to knowing about it.

    Of course there's no substitute for open communication with kids, and
    honesty.
     
    Greg, Nov 4, 2005
    #3
  4. Greg

    nemo_outis Guest

    "Greg" <> wrote in news:1131117821.398441.149390
    @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

    >
    > Of course there's no substitute for open communication with kids, and
    > honesty.



    A good principle - and you have no trouble reconciling it with
    surreptitious spying?

    Regards,
     
    nemo_outis, Nov 4, 2005
    #4
  5. Greg

    Greg Guest

    Nothing surrepticious about it. We make no bones about our right to
    monitor anything that goes on in our house, especially on the family
    computer. We openly tell our kids that the computer is monitored. If
    they're doing something they don't want us to see, they should
    seriously reconsider whether they should be doing it at all.

    We do not read her emails or IMs, but want to know with whom she
    corresponds and who's trying to contact our 14 year old daughter.

    If I would put such software on my next door neighbor's computer,
    THAT's spying. I believe there's an important difference there.
     
    Greg, Nov 4, 2005
    #5
  6. Greg

    Martin Guest

    Greg wrote:
    > Nothing surrepticious about it. We make no bones about our right to
    > monitor anything that goes on in our house, especially on the family
    > computer. We openly tell our kids that the computer is monitored. If
    > they're doing something they don't want us to see, they should
    > seriously reconsider whether they should be doing it at all.
    >
    > We do not read her emails or IMs, but want to know with whom she
    > corresponds and who's trying to contact our 14 year old daughter.


    10 to 1 they are young males with WAAAAY too many rampaging hormones
    flowing through their veins :)

    Family Key Logger http://www.kmint21.com/familykeylogger/

    Don't forget spyware finder tools will find it
     
    Martin, Nov 4, 2005
    #6
  7. Greg

    nemo_outis Guest

    Martin <> wrote in news:436b84a0$0$662
    $:

    > Greg wrote:
    >> Nothing surrepticious about it. We make no bones about our right to
    >> monitor anything that goes on in our house, especially on the family
    >> computer. We openly tell our kids that the computer is monitored. If
    >> they're doing something they don't want us to see, they should
    >> seriously reconsider whether they should be doing it at all.
    >>
    >> We do not read her emails or IMs, but want to know with whom she
    >> corresponds and who's trying to contact our 14 year old daughter.

    >
    > 10 to 1 they are young males with WAAAAY too many rampaging hormones
    > flowing through their veins :)
    >
    > Family Key Logger http://www.kmint21.com/familykeylogger/
    >
    > Don't forget spyware finder tools will find it
    >




    Possibly. And, heaven forfend, they might even see some naked women or
    even people fucking.

    Of course, it's not all that important that they will already have seen
    100,000 or so people killed on TV and in the movies.

    You can run a mini-police-state complete with pervasive surveillance and
    call it a household if you wish. You may even think that announcing that
    they have no personal sphere of privacy which you can't invade makes it OK.
    And, while you may succeed in thwarting them seeing porn, you will have
    taught them some very negative lessons about failure to trust, abuse of
    trust, and misuse of power.

    No, you will fail. If your children wish to end run you in your snooping I
    have no doubt they can succeed.

    Yes, you will fail - hell, you already have! But hopefully your children
    won't! Hopefully, despite the terrible example you are setting for them,
    they will show a greater sense of respect for themselves and others and
    more self-control than you do.

    Regards,
     
    nemo_outis, Nov 4, 2005
    #7
  8. Greg

    Martin Guest

    nemo_outis wrote:
    > Martin <> wrote in news:436b84a0$0$662
    > $:
    >
    >
    >>Greg wrote:
    >>
    >>>Nothing surrepticious about it. We make no bones about our right to
    >>>monitor anything that goes on in our house, especially on the family
    >>>computer. We openly tell our kids that the computer is monitored. If
    >>>they're doing something they don't want us to see, they should
    >>>seriously reconsider whether they should be doing it at all.
    >>>
    >>>We do not read her emails or IMs, but want to know with whom she
    >>>corresponds and who's trying to contact our 14 year old daughter.

    >>
    >>10 to 1 they are young males with WAAAAY too many rampaging hormones
    >>flowing through their veins :)
    >>
    >>Family Key Logger http://www.kmint21.com/familykeylogger/
    >>
    >>Don't forget spyware finder tools will find it
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Possibly. And, heaven forfend, they might even see some naked women or
    > even people fucking.
    >
    > Of course, it's not all that important that they will already have seen
    > 100,000 or so people killed on TV and in the movies.
    >
    > You can run a mini-police-state complete with pervasive surveillance and
    > call it a household if you wish. You may even think that announcing that
    > they have no personal sphere of privacy which you can't invade makes it OK.
    > And, while you may succeed in thwarting them seeing porn, you will have
    > taught them some very negative lessons about failure to trust, abuse of
    > trust, and misuse of power.
    >
    > No, you will fail. If your children wish to end run you in your snooping I
    > have no doubt they can succeed.
    >
    > Yes, you will fail - hell, you already have! But hopefully your children
    > won't! Hopefully, despite the terrible example you are setting for them,
    > they will show a greater sense of respect for themselves and others and
    > more self-control than you do.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    >
    >

    what the hell you having a go at me for? Geez, give someone a bit of
    help and you get this kind of crap thrown at you. What the hell do YOU
    know about me or my kids or anything else about me come to that.
     
    Martin, Nov 4, 2005
    #8
  9. Greg

    nemo_outis Guest

    Martin <> wrote in
    news:436be62e$0$350$:


    > what the hell you having a go at me for? Geez, give someone a bit of
    > help and you get this kind of crap thrown at you. What the hell do YOU
    > know about me or my kids or anything else about me come to that.




    You came here asking how to spy on your children. You deserve to get both
    barrels.

    But what you get from me here now is nothing. You will reap the
    whirlwind from your children - that is, assuming you fail in your quest
    to crush their development by repeatedly substituting your will and
    judgment for theirs.

    It is very clear that the message you are sending your children as they
    move towards adulthood is, "The person who should know you best in the
    whole world doesn't trust you, thinks you have poor judgment, and wishes
    to spy on you in order to control you." It is a message that, if they
    have any spirit at all, they will take to heart.

    Let me tell you the internet is the least of your worries. I absolutely
    guarantee you that drugs are readily available in the school to which
    your children go - wherever it is. I absolutely guarantee that your
    daughter would be able to meet with that "bad boy" surreptitiously if she
    chooses. I absolutely guarantee that she will be able to surf the net
    from a friend's house, or make clandestine cellphone calls, if she
    chooses.

    Your job is to help her make the right choices, not spy on her. Your job
    is to love her unconditionally, even when she screws up. Your job is to
    loosen the reins so her judgment and internal strength grow, which will
    come from her, not you, making decisions and yes, sometimes even making
    bad decisions. Your job is to be the support team, the coach, and, yes,
    the backup and reserves for when things go wrong or when she needs help.

    Your children, like all adolescents, will be struggling to define
    themselves, and they, like all adolescents, will do so, in part, in
    opposition to their parents, by what is frequently mislabelled rebelling.
    You are setting yourself up to exacerbate that rebellion (assuming you
    don't succeed in suppressing it) and stunt their development. You are
    setting yourself up to have your own lack of faith in them relected back
    at you ten times over.

    You, you fool, should radiate confidence in them, trust that they are up
    the challenges they will face, not suspicion and distrust in their
    developing personalities. You must do this despite your fears and
    worries for them, no matter how strong. Actions speak louder than words.
    And spying speaks very loudly indeed.

    If you have a close relationship with your children you don't need to
    spy. You will know who their friends are, you will know what your
    childrens hopes and fears are, you will know what problems they are
    facing, you will know when they are feeling joy or sorrow. You will know
    these things because you interact with them daily, because you are
    actively involved with their lives, and because you have faith in them
    and their abilities and judgment - even when they make mistakes. They
    will know they can come to you and you will support them and help them to
    grow.

    In short, your children need a father, not a spy.

    Regards,
     
    nemo_outis, Nov 5, 2005
    #9
  10. Greg

    John Hyde Guest

    on 11/4/2005 11:12 AM nemo_outis said the following:
    > Martin <> wrote in news:436b84a0$0$662
    > $:
    >
    >
    >>Greg wrote:
    >>
    >>>Nothing surrepticious about it. We make no bones about our right to
    >>>monitor anything that goes on in our house, especially on the family
    >>>computer. We openly tell our kids that the computer is monitored. If
    >>>they're doing something they don't want us to see, they should
    >>>seriously reconsider whether they should be doing it at all.
    >>>
    >>>We do not read her emails or IMs, but want to know with whom she
    >>>corresponds and who's trying to contact our 14 year old daughter.

    >>
    >>10 to 1 they are young males with WAAAAY too many rampaging hormones
    >>flowing through their veins :)
    >>
    >>Family Key Logger http://www.kmint21.com/familykeylogger/
    >>
    >>Don't forget spyware finder tools will find it
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Possibly. And, heaven forfend, they might even see some naked women or
    > even people fucking.
    >
    > Of course, it's not all that important that they will already have seen
    > 100,000 or so people killed on TV and in the movies.
    >
    > You can run a mini-police-state complete with pervasive surveillance and
    > call it a household if you wish. You may even think that announcing that
    > they have no personal sphere of privacy which you can't invade makes it OK.
    > And, while you may succeed in thwarting them seeing porn, you will have
    > taught them some very negative lessons about failure to trust, abuse of
    > trust, and misuse of power.
    >
    > No, you will fail. If your children wish to end run you in your snooping I
    > have no doubt they can succeed.
    >
    > Yes, you will fail - hell, you already have! But hopefully your children
    > won't! Hopefully, despite the terrible example you are setting for them,
    > they will show a greater sense of respect for themselves and others and
    > more self-control than you do.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    >
    >

    While I respect your argument, I don't think it is right for everyone.
    Just because the OP asked about the ability to monitor his kids, does
    not mean that this is the only conversation that is going on under his
    roof.

    WARNING: The following is quite long, but hopefully coherent. On topic
    for this thread, but just barely for this NG.

    5 years ago, when my daughter was 12, we had the same discussion in out
    house. Mywife and I both expressed concerns like greg has stated as
    well as the view the nemo has express. To say we were conflicted would
    be an understatement.

    We finally decided that it is our duty to protect and teach our
    children. We felt that if a monitor was used like a "big brother"
    device, then that would be bad. But we realized that we don't let her
    lock us completely out of her room, we are free to enter, but we knock
    first. Same way with her internet habits. Our explanation was this:
    We have no interest in your emails, but as your parents it is our duty
    to keep you safe. If we feel that something is becoming a problem for
    you. We may look in your computer and see what you have been doing. Only
    by knowing what you are doing can we help to teach you.

    This policy was the kick off of a lot of very interesting discussions.
    WARNING: Next paragraph is long and boring, from memory but a pretty
    accurate recollection:

    Some of them went like this: "Ohrgh! you guys are so strict!!" "Well,
    what do you mean?" "Jennifer's* parents don't spy on her, they let her
    do anything they want." "Really? She must like that." "Well Duh!" "Hey,
    you remember Jennifer was telling you about that boy she wanted to sleep
    with" "Yeah, she didn't do it. I talked her out of it, so far" "Did you
    suggest she talk to her mom?" "Gosh, you are so clueless! I told you
    Jennifer doesn't talk to her parents!" "Well, I know Jack and Jill
    pretty well. I bet Jennifer could talk to them if it was important."
    "Yeah, maybe, but she says they really dont care, they pretty much just
    leave her alone" "Hmmm, that's too bad, I'm sure glad we can talk to
    each other." "Yeah, I guess so" "Really? Even if were really strict?"
    "Hey, I didn't say _that_. <with a grin>"

    *(no real names)

    Please understand, that children are not little adults. At puberty,
    they begin to develop both physically and mentally. the mental
    development begins in the lower brain; the parts responsible for
    impulse. If Fruedian terms, the Id. We always called it the "lizard
    brain." As the lizard brain develops, the wants become stronger in
    tandem with physical maturation. this is nature's way of getting us to
    procreate. The impulse control is not there yet and does not come
    around for several years.

    The other thing that is going on is that it is a scary world outside the
    family cave, village, neighborhood, whatever. As kids develop, they
    want their freedom, their privacy, respect, etc. But at some level,
    they realize that it is a scary world out there. It is a growth process
    and our kids want to be let free, AND, they want to be sheltered and
    protected. The balance shifts as they get older.

    If you read this far, you will realize that I have stated some
    principles that come from a thought out parenting philosophy. You can't
    just lock up your kids and call them safe. You can, and should,
    restrict their activities to teach them the right way to grow (and talk
    to them, and talk some more and when you're done, talk to them, rinse
    and repeat). Frankly, I think Greg is on the right track. If he can
    use a tool in an appropriate way, more power to him.

    I also realize fully what some of you may believe we have cost our
    daughter by raising her the way we have. All I can say to that is that
    if you could meet her, you'd change your mind. She's bright, funny,
    outgoing, smart, open, honest, hard working and well adjusted. And
    that's not just with her peers, she is that way with adults of all ages
    too.

    Nuf Said (way too much actually, but there are a lot of ways to be a
    "good" parent. Let's not scold Greg too much, I think.)

    Regards,

    John
     
    John Hyde, Nov 5, 2005
    #10
  11. Greg

    John Hyde Guest

    on 11/4/2005 4:46 PM nemo_outis said the following:
    > Martin <> wrote in
    > news:436be62e$0$350$:
    >
    >
    >
    >>what the hell you having a go at me for? Geez, give someone a bit of
    >>help and you get this kind of crap thrown at you. What the hell do YOU
    >>know about me or my kids or anything else about me come to that.

    >
    >
    >
    >
    > You came here asking how to spy on your children. You deserve to get both
    > barrels.


    Uhhh, What I think he's saying is that your invective is pointed at the
    wrong person. Greg was the OP, Martin geve a suggestion.

    >
    > But what you get from me here now is nothing. You will reap the
    > whirlwind from your children - that is, assuming you fail in your quest
    > to crush their development by repeatedly substituting your will and
    > judgment for theirs.
    >
    > It is very clear that the message you are sending your children as they
    > move towards adulthood is, "The person who should know you best in the
    > whole world doesn't trust you, thinks you have poor judgment, and wishes
    > to spy on you in order to control you." It is a message that, if they
    > have any spirit at all, they will take to heart.
    >
    > Let me tell you the internet is the least of your worries. I absolutely
    > guarantee you that drugs are readily available in the school to which
    > your children go - wherever it is. I absolutely guarantee that your
    > daughter would be able to meet with that "bad boy" surreptitiously if she
    > chooses. I absolutely guarantee that she will be able to surf the net
    > from a friend's house, or make clandestine cellphone calls, if she
    > chooses.
    >
    > Your job is to help her make the right choices, not spy on her. Your job
    > is to love her unconditionally, even when she screws up. Your job is to
    > loosen the reins so her judgment and internal strength grow, which will
    > come from her, not you, making decisions and yes, sometimes even making
    > bad decisions. Your job is to be the support team, the coach, and, yes,
    > the backup and reserves for when things go wrong or when she needs help.
    >
    > Your children, like all adolescents, will be struggling to define
    > themselves, and they, like all adolescents, will do so, in part, in
    > opposition to their parents, by what is frequently mislabelled rebelling.
    > You are setting yourself up to exacerbate that rebellion (assuming you
    > don't succeed in suppressing it) and stunt their development. You are
    > setting yourself up to have your own lack of faith in them relected back
    > at you ten times over.
    >
    > You, you fool, should radiate confidence in them, trust that they are up
    > the challenges they will face, not suspicion and distrust in their
    > developing personalities. You must do this despite your fears and
    > worries for them, no matter how strong. Actions speak louder than words.
    > And spying speaks very loudly indeed.
    >
    > If you have a close relationship with your children you don't need to
    > spy. You will know who their friends are, you will know what your
    > childrens hopes and fears are, you will know what problems they are
    > facing, you will know when they are feeling joy or sorrow. You will know
    > these things because you interact with them daily, because you are
    > actively involved with their lives, and because you have faith in them
    > and their abilities and judgment - even when they make mistakes. They
    > will know they can come to you and you will support them and help them to
    > grow.
    >
    > In short, your children need a father, not a spy.
    >
    > Regards,
    >


    I have no disagreement with what you say a parent should be. Every tool
    that anyone uses can be used wrongly. If used in the way that you imply
    that it must be used, then I suppose that you are correct about the
    result. See My other post though. My own daughter is an example of
    such a tool, used in an appropriate context leading to a great result.
    My criticism of your post is not where your heart appears to be.
    Rather, I think you assume that allowing your children to run wild
    without any controls at all is the only way for them to become strong
    confident and self sufficient.

    Frankly, I believe that giving children absolute freedom can also work,
    if the parents are very very good. But it the parents are not that
    good, then the children can be bolluxed up beyond recognition.

    As you say, it's all about your relationship with your children. I'm
    proud of my child and the relationship I have with her. And since you
    and I will never meet RW, I'll thank you not to judge.

    Regards,

    John
     
    John Hyde, Nov 5, 2005
    #11
  12. Greg

    nemo_outis Guest

    John Hyde <> wrote in
    news::

    >
    > Uhhh, What I think he's saying is that your invective is pointed at
    > the wrong person. Greg was the OP, Martin geve a suggestion.



    My response was directed to the original requester, the father keen to spy.
    However, even if it was posted out of sequence, I think it is pretty easy
    to figure out to whom my remarks were addressed.


    ....
    > I have no disagreement with what you say a parent should be. Every
    > tool that anyone uses can be used wrongly. If used in the way that
    > you imply that it must be used, then I suppose that you are correct
    > about the result. See My other post though. My own daughter is an
    > example of such a tool, used in an appropriate context leading to a
    > great result. My criticism of your post is not where your heart
    > appears to be. Rather, I think you assume that allowing your children
    > to run wild without any controls at all is the only way for them to
    > become strong confident and self sufficient.



    Children running wild is hardly the only alternative to spying on them -
    that false dichotomy is a strawman you have constructed from thin air.


    > Frankly, I believe that giving children absolute freedom can also
    > work, if the parents are very very good. But it the parents are not
    > that good, then the children can be bolluxed up beyond recognition.
    >
    > As you say, it's all about your relationship with your children. I'm
    > proud of my child and the relationship I have with her. And since you
    > and I will never meet RW, I'll thank you not to judge.



    The requester came to a public forum and made a public request, to be
    applied to purposes he made public - he thereby subjected himself to
    public comment. I gave him that - in spades!

    Regards,
     
    nemo_outis, Nov 5, 2005
    #12
  13. Greg

    Martin Guest

    nemo_outis wrote:
    > Martin <> wrote in
    > news:436be62e$0$350$:
    >
    >
    >
    >>what the hell you having a go at me for? Geez, give someone a bit of
    >>help and you get this kind of crap thrown at you. What the hell do YOU
    >>know about me or my kids or anything else about me come to that.

    >
    >
    >
    >
    > You came here asking how to spy on your children. You deserve to get both
    > barrels.


    No I didn't

    Idiot!

    <rant cut for sanity>
     
    Martin, Nov 5, 2005
    #13
  14. Greg

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 09:36:16 +0000, Martin <>
    wrote:

    >nemo_outis wrote:
    >> Martin <> wrote in
    >> news:436be62e$0$350$:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>what the hell you having a go at me for? Geez, give someone a bit of
    >>>help and you get this kind of crap thrown at you. What the hell do YOU
    >>>know about me or my kids or anything else about me come to that.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> You came here asking how to spy on your children. You deserve to get both
    >> barrels.

    >
    >No I didn't


    <quote>

    I'm a father of one teenaged daughter, and another teeneager-to-be
    (not too soon, thank the Gods!) My wife and I can't be over her
    shoulder all the time, but we want to know EVERYTHING that goes on on
    that computer.

    <unquote>

    oh yes you did.

    Educate your kids to be resonsible and aware of the issues and dangers
    of life, and the Internet. You will get no respect from them if you
    spy on them, and certainly none from most of the people here.


    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
     
    Jim Watt, Nov 5, 2005
    #14
  15. Greg

    Martin Guest

    Jim Watt wrote:
    > On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 09:36:16 +0000, Martin <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>nemo_outis wrote:
    >>
    >>>Martin <> wrote in
    >>>news:436be62e$0$350$:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>what the hell you having a go at me for? Geez, give someone a bit of
    >>>>help and you get this kind of crap thrown at you. What the hell do YOU
    >>>>know about me or my kids or anything else about me come to that.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>You came here asking how to spy on your children. You deserve to get both
    >>>barrels.

    >>
    >>No I didn't

    >
    >
    > <quote>
    >
    > I'm a father of one teenaged daughter, and another teeneager-to-be
    > (not too soon, thank the Gods!) My wife and I can't be over her
    > shoulder all the time, but we want to know EVERYTHING that goes on on
    > that computer.
    >
    > <unquote>
    >
    > oh yes you did.


    Altogether now "oh no I didn't!"

    My name is Martin, my handle on Usenet is Martin. Now, who posted the
    OP? That'd be Greg. I have no idea whether Greg is his name or not, it's
    his Usenet handle. Martin != Greg.

    I (Martin) replied to Greg making a quip about hormonal teenagers and a
    reply sugesting said Greg might want to try out Family Key Logger.

    > Educate your kids to be resonsible and aware of the issues and dangers
    > of life, and the Internet. You will get no respect from them if you
    > spy on them, and certainly none from most of the people here.


    Who cares? My kids left home frigging years ago. One's a sportsman, the
    other is making records.
     
    Martin, Nov 5, 2005
    #15
  16. Greg

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 13:40:58 +0000, Martin <>
    wrote:

    >Altogether now "oh no I didn't!"


    sorry, you are totally correct; it was another twat.

    The advice redirected to the OP remains valid and
    anyone who has to ask clearly knows less about
    compuers than his kids so installing a keylogger is
    a dumb idea.
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
     
    Jim Watt, Nov 5, 2005
    #16
  17. Greg

    Beachcomber Guest


    >Some of them went like this: "Ohrgh! you guys are so strict!!" "Well,
    >what do you mean?" "Jennifer's* parents don't spy on her, they let her
    >do anything they want." "Really? She must like that." "Well Duh!" "Hey,
    >you remember Jennifer was telling you about that boy she wanted to sleep
    >with" "Yeah, she didn't do it. I talked her out of it, so far" "Did you
    >suggest she talk to her mom?" "Gosh, you are so clueless! I told you
    >Jennifer doesn't talk to her parents!" "Well, I know Jack and Jill
    >pretty well. I bet Jennifer could talk to them if it was important."
    >"Yeah, maybe, but she says they really dont care, they pretty much just
    >leave her alone" "Hmmm, that's too bad, I'm sure glad we can talk to
    >each other." "Yeah, I guess so" "Really? Even if were really strict?"
    >"Hey, I didn't say _that_. <with a grin>"
    >


    If the teenager has any smarts at all, he or she is going to resent
    all these attempts at monitoring and will start demanding privacy.

    Most teenages have plenty of friends and at least one of these will
    have access to an unrestricted and unmonitored computer. All he or
    she needs is a yahoo e-mail account and you parents will never know
    whom the youngster is communicating with.

    Better to focus your parental energies into making sure your children
    have good values and understand the dangers of the Internet and will
    not be afraid to come to you when they think they have a problem.

    Father to son: "Son, don't go into that strip club because you are
    likely to see something you don't want to see".

    Son: "I went anyway and realized my father was right. I saw
    something I didn't want to see. I saw my father sitting in the front
    row..."


    Beachcomber
     
    Beachcomber, Nov 5, 2005
    #17
  18. Greg

    Nick Guest

    "nemo_outis" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9704D1107A5C6abcxyzcom@127.0.0.1...
    > John Hyde <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    > >
    > > Uhhh, What I think he's saying is that your invective is pointed at
    > > the wrong person. Greg was the OP, Martin geve a suggestion.

    >
    >
    > My response was directed to the original requester, the father keen to

    spy.
    > However, even if it was posted out of sequence, I think it is pretty easy
    > to figure out to whom my remarks were addressed.


    Well, do not post out of sequence!

    > The requester came to a public forum and made a public request, to be
    > applied to purposes he made public - he thereby subjected himself to
    > public comment. I gave him that - in spades!


    I would really like to know if you are talking out of experience or you are
    just _preaching_?
    Do you really have any idea of what is it like dealing with a teenage
    daughter nowadays? On the top of that, a father deals also with bills, wife,
    boss, customers, training courses, etc.etc.

    Trust and control must go parallel anywhere, anytime. You are the fool one
    if you do not control your children, but only trust them.

    Nick
     
    Nick, Nov 5, 2005
    #18
  19. From: "Nick" <>


    |
    | I would really like to know if you are talking out of experience or you are
    | just _preaching_?
    | Do you really have any idea of what is it like dealing with a teenage
    | daughter nowadays? On the top of that, a father deals also with bills, wife,
    | boss, customers, training courses, etc.etc.
    |
    | Trust and control must go parallel anywhere, anytime. You are the fool one
    | if you do not control your children, but only trust them.
    |
    | Nick
    |

    That's why I said in the beginning... "...should be locking down the system and blocking
    what you don't want them
    to be doing." Prevention is better than cure. Trust is one thing but a minor is a minor
    and one has to have levels of control. This could be using software such as NetNanny or
    using a NT or Unix OS access controls and permissions.

    --
    Dave
    http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
    http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
     
    David H. Lipman, Nov 5, 2005
    #19
  20. Greg

    nemo_outis Guest

    "Nick" <> wrote in
    news:AO8bf.420312$tl2.43901@pd7tw3no:

    >
    > "nemo_outis" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns9704D1107A5C6abcxyzcom@127.0.0.1...
    >> John Hyde <> wrote in
    >> news::
    >>
    >> >
    >> > Uhhh, What I think he's saying is that your invective is pointed at
    >> > the wrong person. Greg was the OP, Martin geve a suggestion.

    >>
    >>
    >> My response was directed to the original requester, the father keen
    >> to

    > spy.
    >> However, even if it was posted out of sequence, I think it is pretty
    >> easy to figure out to whom my remarks were addressed.

    >
    > Well, do not post out of sequence!
    >
    >> The requester came to a public forum and made a public request, to be
    >> applied to purposes he made public - he thereby subjected himself to
    >> public comment. I gave him that - in spades!

    >
    > I would really like to know if you are talking out of experience or
    > you are just _preaching_?
    > Do you really have any idea of what is it like dealing with a teenage
    > daughter nowadays? On the top of that, a father deals also with bills,
    > wife, boss, customers, training courses, etc.etc.
    >
    > Trust and control must go parallel anywhere, anytime. You are the fool
    > one if you do not control your children, but only trust them.
    >
    > Nick





    Control teenagers? Gimme a break! What's with this pernicious mania to
    control other people's lives - is it some uniquely USian perversion or
    has it spread more broadly? Have we sunk so low that we now speak not
    only of spying on our children but of being their jailers or perhaps
    their puppetmasters?

    My sons are 21 and 18, and they are fine young men whom I am proud to
    know - and not just because they are my children.

    I set standards and I enforced them with consequences for breaches, both
    as a father when they were my wards, and now as master of the house in
    which my legally-adult sons reside.

    Yes, I set standards, enforceable standards, but I hope, even more than
    that, I set an example of how people treat each other with trust and
    respect.

    The standards were - and are - enforced with consequences for breaches,
    premised as much as possible on the concept of "logical consequences."
    And, of course, there have been times when they had to be applied.

    But the purpose was never to *control* them but rather to help them
    develop the *internal* values and self-discipline to make good choices in
    life, to help them grow to be mature persons with a strong internal code
    and respect for themselves and others, to help them develop the skills to
    run their own lives and run them well!

    But control them? No! External control is for prisoners, not children.

    Regards,
     
    nemo_outis, Nov 5, 2005
    #20
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