Computer Makers Sued Over Hard-Drive Size Claims

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by asdf, Sep 24, 2003.

  1. asdf

    asdf Guest

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  2. asdf

    T.N.O. Guest

    T.N.O., Sep 24, 2003
    #2
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  3. asdf

    Rider Guest

    "T.N.O." <> wrote in message
    news:bkt0ni$5k9u9$-berlin.de...
    > "asdf" wrote
    > >

    >

    http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=34703
    94&section=news
    > > Sounds good to me.

    >
    > Yeha I read about that the other day, but I think that they'll be
    > buggered... a gigabyte is 1000 bytes... a gibabyte is 1024, so *I* think
    > they'll lose.
    >
    >


    Surely they should be suing Microsoft as its their OS that formats the drive
    using whatever file system, which makes some of the HDD unuseable??

    A blank hdd drive has its full capacity doesnt it?

    *Off to have a look at a blank hdd*

    Rider
     
    Rider, Sep 24, 2003
    #3
  4. asdf

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <Qpncb.158008$>,
    says...
    >
    >
    > http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=3470394&section=news
    >
    > Sounds good to me.


    "According to the lawsuit, computer hard drive capacities are described
    in promotional material in decimal notation, but the computer reads and
    writes data to the drives in a binary system.

    The result is that a hard drive described as being 20 gigabytes would
    actually have only 18.6 gigabytes of readable capacity, the lawsuit
    said."

    Completely daft and a typical American attempt to extort money from
    companies through legal action. Actually they steal it from all the other
    customers of the companies concerned.

    The internationally recognised definition of "mega" is 1 million (not
    1048576) and "giga" is 1000 million (not 1073418xxx) because the terms
    are taken from the metric system, which is based in base 10 and not in
    base 2.

    There is a common usage of kilo, mega, giga and tera in binary terms but
    their metric equivalents are equally common in the computer marketplace.
     
    Mainlander, Sep 24, 2003
    #4
  5. asdf

    fred Guest

    fred, Sep 24, 2003
    #5
  6. asdf

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <bkt0ni$5k9u9$-berlin.de>,
    says...
    > "asdf" wrote
    > >

    > http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=3470394&section=news
    > > Sounds good to me.

    >
    > Yeha I read about that the other day, but I think that they'll be
    > buggered... a gigabyte is 1000 bytes... a gibabyte is 1024, so *I* think
    > they'll lose.


    The terms kilo, mega, giga and tera are from the metric system where they
    refer respectively to 1000, 1000000, 1000000000 and 1000000000000.

    If you think this is a great idea then I presume you're willing to pay
    more for your hard drives in the future to cover the costs should this
    stupid lawsuit succeed.
     
    Mainlander, Sep 24, 2003
    #6
  7. asdf

    Alan Guest

    "Rider" <> wrote in message
    news:bkt3ba$ks5$...

    > > Yeha I read about that the other day, but I think that they'll be
    > > buggered... a gigabyte is 1000 bytes... a gibabyte is 1024, so *I* think
    > > they'll lose.
    > >

    >
    > Surely they should be suing Microsoft as its their OS that formats the

    drive
    > using whatever file system, which makes some of the HDD unuseable??
    >


    > A blank hdd drive has its full capacity doesnt it?


    The advertising is playing on the fact that people think a kB is 1000 bytes,
    when it's actually 1024 bytes, and a MB is not 1,000,000 bytes, it's really
    1024 x 1024 bytes, which is 1,048,576 bytes. By reversing the logic their
    advertising makes it looks like the drives have more capacity than they
    really do - nothing to do with the O/S. This has been going on for years.

    Alan
     
    Alan, Sep 24, 2003
    #7
  8. asdf

    Gavin Tunney Guest

    Gavin Tunney, Sep 24, 2003
    #8
  9. asdf

    Rider Guest

    "Gavin Tunney" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:47:31 +1200, "asdf" <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >

    >
    >http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=3470

    394&section=news
    > >
    > >Sounds good to me.
    > >
    > >Dan
    > >

    >
    > That's pathetic, can only happen in litigation land.
    >
    > Gavin


    Yeah I agree. If thats their biggest concern in life that they feel the need
    to sue over it, then they must have pretty comfortable lives.

    Rider
     
    Rider, Sep 24, 2003
    #9
  10. asdf

    Peter Grooby Guest

    In article <nCocb.3569$>,
    says...
    > "Rider" <> wrote in message
    > news:bkt3ba$ks5$...
    >
    > > > Yeha I read about that the other day, but I think that they'll be
    > > > buggered... a gigabyte is 1000 bytes... a gibabyte is 1024, so *I* think
    > > > they'll lose.
    > > >

    > >
    > > Surely they should be suing Microsoft as its their OS that formats the

    > drive
    > > using whatever file system, which makes some of the HDD unuseable??
    > >

    >
    > > A blank hdd drive has its full capacity doesnt it?

    >
    > The advertising is playing on the fact that people think a kB is 1000 bytes,
    > when it's actually 1024 bytes, and a MB is not 1,000,000 bytes, it's really
    > 1024 x 1024 bytes, which is 1,048,576 bytes. By reversing the logic their
    > advertising makes it looks like the drives have more capacity than they
    > really do - nothing to do with the O/S. This has been going on for years.
    >

    Some years ago a Silicon Valley software nerd sued his company for
    unpaid salary.

    At the time job placement ads customarily listed salaries as 50K or 90K
    etc.
    He argued that if he got hired for a computer job paying 60K, he should
    be paid 60*1024=$61440 not $60000

    Not sure if he won the case (or worked in Silicon Valley again)

    Pete

    --
    --
    Remove pants from email address to reply.
     
    Peter Grooby, Sep 24, 2003
    #10
  11. asdf

    T.N.O. Guest

    "Mainlander" wrote
    > > Yeha I read about that the other day, but I think that they'll be
    > > buggered... a gigabyte is 1000 bytes... a gibabyte is 1024, so *I* think
    > > they'll lose.


    > If you think this is a great idea then I presume you're willing to pay
    > more for your hard drives in the future to cover the costs should this
    > stupid lawsuit succeed.


    Didn't say that it was a great idea, only that they are not correct in
    assuming that kilo meant 1024
     
    T.N.O., Sep 25, 2003
    #11
  12. asdf

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <bkt3ba$ks5$>,
    says...
    >
    > "T.N.O." <> wrote in message
    > news:bkt0ni$5k9u9$-berlin.de...
    > > "asdf" wrote
    > > >

    > >

    > http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=34703
    > 94&section=news
    > > > Sounds good to me.

    > >
    > > Yeha I read about that the other day, but I think that they'll be
    > > buggered... a gigabyte is 1000 bytes... a gibabyte is 1024, so *I* think
    > > they'll lose.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > Surely they should be suing Microsoft as its their OS that formats the drive
    > using whatever file system, which makes some of the HDD unuseable??


    Bollocks
     
    Mainlander, Sep 25, 2003
    #12
  13. asdf

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <nCocb.3569$>,
    says...
    > "Rider" <> wrote in message
    > news:bkt3ba$ks5$...
    >
    > > > Yeha I read about that the other day, but I think that they'll be
    > > > buggered... a gigabyte is 1000 bytes... a gibabyte is 1024, so *I* think
    > > > they'll lose.
    > > >

    > >
    > > Surely they should be suing Microsoft as its their OS that formats the

    > drive
    > > using whatever file system, which makes some of the HDD unuseable??
    > >

    >
    > > A blank hdd drive has its full capacity doesnt it?

    >
    > The advertising is playing on the fact that people think a kB is 1000 bytes,
    > when it's actually 1024 bytes, and a MB is not 1,000,000 bytes, it's really
    > 1024 x 1024 bytes, which is 1,048,576 bytes. By reversing the logic their
    > advertising makes it looks like the drives have more capacity than they
    > really do - nothing to do with the O/S. This has been going on for years.


    Kilo means 1000, Mega means 1,000,000. These terms come from the metric
    system defined something like 200 years ago.
     
    Mainlander, Sep 25, 2003
    #13
  14. asdf

    moe Guest

    moe, Sep 25, 2003
    #14
  15. asdf

    Enkidu Guest

    Enkidu, Sep 25, 2003
    #15
  16. Mainlander wrote:
    > In article <bkt3ba$ks5$>,
    > says...
    >> Surely they should be suing Microsoft as its their OS that formats
    >> the drive using whatever file system, which makes some of the HDD
    >> unuseable??

    >
    > Bollocks


    Space on the hard drive is, of course, used for the file system. Select a
    whole lot of files, right click, properties. Notice the descrepancy between
    "size" and "size on disk"? Information must be stored on the drive about
    things like which sectors the file begins and ends at, file attributes, the
    file's name, etc.

    Cheers,
    Nicholas Sherlock
     
    Nicholas Sherlock, Sep 25, 2003
    #16
  17. asdf

    Steven H Guest

    In article <>, *@*.*
    says...
    > In article <nCocb.3569$>,
    > says...


    > Kilo means 1000, Mega means 1,000,000. These terms come from the metric
    > system defined something like 200 years ago.


    computers wernt invented 200 years ago (well adding machines but ...)

    you have to look at this in CONTEXT

    if you saw a hard drive advertising the capacaty of 120 GB (knowen as
    Giga Bytes) i sure as hell would expect 120 Giga Bytes

    it is the BYTES that make the diffrence - base 2 as apposed to base 10

    if i saw a drive advertising the capacaty of 120 Giga, then i sure as
    hell shouldnt expect 120 Giga Bytes

    again they are using base 10 as apposed to base 2

    personally i would fight tooth and nail untill i get my legeal
    entitlement that is under the CGA - comes under false advertising.

    --
    ===================================================
    Steven H
     
    Steven H, Sep 25, 2003
    #17
  18. asdf

    Mainlander Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > In article <>, *@*.*
    > says...
    > > In article <nCocb.3569$>,
    > > says...

    >
    > > Kilo means 1000, Mega means 1,000,000. These terms come from the metric
    > > system defined something like 200 years ago.

    >
    > computers wernt invented 200 years ago (well adding machines but ...)
    >
    > you have to look at this in CONTEXT
    >
    > if you saw a hard drive advertising the capacaty of 120 GB (knowen as
    > Giga Bytes) i sure as hell would expect 120 Giga Bytes
    >
    > it is the BYTES that make the diffrence - base 2 as apposed to base 10


    A byte is a byte, 1 = 2^0

    Memory chips have to be made according to powers of two, HDDs don't. That
    is what people fail to realise. Whereas a memory chip is always going to
    be a power of two in size, a hard drive can have 17 sectors per track,
    999 tracks per surface and five or six surfaces. There is absolutely no
    obligation whatsoever on hard drive makers to make their disks have the
    track, surface or sector count be a power of two.
     
    Mainlander, Sep 25, 2003
    #18
  19. asdf

    Jay Guest

    Jay, Sep 25, 2003
    #19
  20. asdf

    Jay Guest

    Mainlander wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > says...
    >> In article <>, *@*.*
    >> says...
    >> > In article <nCocb.3569$>,
    >> > says...

    >>
    >> > Kilo means 1000, Mega means 1,000,000. These terms come from the metric
    >> > system defined something like 200 years ago.

    >>
    >> computers wernt invented 200 years ago (well adding machines but ...)
    >>
    >> you have to look at this in CONTEXT
    >>
    >> if you saw a hard drive advertising the capacaty of 120 GB (knowen as
    >> Giga Bytes) i sure as hell would expect 120 Giga Bytes
    >>
    >> it is the BYTES that make the diffrence - base 2 as apposed to base 10

    >
    > A byte is a byte, 1 = 2^0
    >
    > Memory chips have to be made according to powers of two, HDDs don't. That
    > is what people fail to realise. Whereas a memory chip is always going to
    > be a power of two in size, a hard drive can have 17 sectors per track,
    > 999 tracks per surface and five or six surfaces. There is absolutely no
    > obligation whatsoever on hard drive makers to make their disks have the
    > track, surface or sector count be a power of two.


    Unfortunately you are quite wrong about memory chips.
    They do *not* have to have any relationship with a power of two.
    For example, an address chip could be addressed via a BCD decoder.
    Or it could be addressed serially through a single address line.
     
    Jay, Sep 25, 2003
    #20
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