computer freezing

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by =?Utf-8?B?a2F0ZQ==?=, Sep 11, 2005.

  1. my x64 keeps freezing about twice a day and i have to keep on rebooting
    it...is anyone else having a similar problem? please help, thanks
     
    =?Utf-8?B?a2F0ZQ==?=, Sep 11, 2005
    #1
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  2. =?Utf-8?B?a2F0ZQ==?=

    Colin Nowell Guest

    Need MUCH more detail please Kate. System components etc etc...

    "kate" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > my x64 keeps freezing about twice a day and i have to keep on rebooting
    > it...is anyone else having a similar problem? please help, thanks
     
    Colin Nowell, Sep 11, 2005
    #2
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  3. =?Utf-8?B?a2F0ZQ==?=

    Lady Sadie Guest

    On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 03:54:02 -0700, "kate"
    <> wrote:

    >my x64 keeps freezing about twice a day and i have to keep on rebooting
    >it...is anyone else having a similar problem? please help, thanks


    Yes, I also am experiencing freezing though maybe 2x a week.
     
    Lady Sadie, Sep 11, 2005
    #3
  4. If you are using nVidia chipset upgrade to the latest drivers? Also check
    your device manager to see if all the devices are fully installed and
    functioning properly.
    --
    Andre
    Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
    "kate" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > my x64 keeps freezing about twice a day and i have to keep on rebooting
    > it...is anyone else having a similar problem? please help, thanks
     
    Andre Da Costa, Sep 11, 2005
    #4
  5. "kate" <> wrote in:

    > my x64 keeps freezing about twice a day and i have to keep on rebooting
    > it...is anyone else having a similar problem? please help, thanks


    Yup, having the same problem running XP Pro. Some times twice a day, some
    times more. Based on past experience it's probably a hardware problem here.
    When it gets too annoying to tolerate any more (that'll probably be the next
    time it does it!) I'll pull out one memory stick and see if that cures it, if
    not, I'll swap them and see what that does. My guess is one of them is bad
    but it could be something else, maybe the hard drive?

    Anyway, to get back to your problem, don't overlook the possibility of
    hardware failure.

    --
    David R. Norton MVP
    <>
     
    David R. Norton MVP, Sep 11, 2005
    #5
  6. Tip!


    "David R. Norton MVP" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns96CE8D502256Cdrnortonyahoocom@127.0.0.1...
    > "kate" <> wrote in:
    >
    > > my x64 keeps freezing about twice a day and i have to keep on rebooting
    > > it...is anyone else having a similar problem? please help, thanks

    >
    > Yup, having the same problem running XP Pro. Some times twice a day, some
    > times more. Based on past experience it's probably a hardware problem

    here.
    > When it gets too annoying to tolerate any more (that'll probably be the

    next
    > time it does it!) I'll pull out one memory stick and see if that cures it,

    if
    > not, I'll swap them and see what that does. My guess is one of them is

    bad
    > but it could be something else, maybe the hard drive?
    >

    Why not try testing the memory, someone here posted this link that I
    immediately included in my toolbox:

    http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp

    and here are alternatives out there.

    > Anyway, to get back to your problem, don't overlook the possibility of
    > hardware failure.
    >
    > --
    > David R. Norton MVP
    > <>



    Tony. . .
     
    Tony Sperling, Sep 12, 2005
    #6
  7. "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in:

    > Why not try testing the memory, someone here posted this link that I
    > immediately included in my toolbox:
    >
    > http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
    >
    > and here are alternatives out there.


    I have a memory tester that I have faith in but it's much easier to pull one
    and see if that fixes it or, if not, to pull the other one and put the first
    one back. My failures are so very infrequent that I don't know if I have the
    patience but I will give the memory test a shot since I'm going to be gone in
    about 15 minutes and won't be back until tomorrow afternoon. Memory tests
    require a VERY long time to run if you want a complete test and since my
    failure is less than once every day I may not show up a failure even if I run
    it 24 hours....


    --
    David R. Norton MVP
    <>
     
    David R. Norton MVP, Sep 12, 2005
    #7
  8. Well, David, the reason my interest was triggered, was that you suggested
    just pulling one stick and watch for possible effects. While that, of
    course, is fruitful course of action, I do think it is 'time wastin', albeit
    on a smaller scale. Your chanses of a 'hit' is 50% and - in your situation -
    you'll have to wait a couple of days before having any firm indication.
    Surely, swapping the sticks from the beginning, has a much higher potential.

    A good memory test-suit, I suspect, puts the memory under much higher stress
    than normal operation, and - allowing for some 'randomness in errors' -
    probably would expose a weak component in a succession of over-night runs,
    not neccessarily a continuous run over several days. Plus, any reported
    errors identifies the exact component at fault.

    So, for a more rapid truth mission, swapping to see what happens, then
    testing over-night, should give you more than just a hint in much shorter
    time. And remember too, that the concept of 'randomness in errors' means
    that you can have errors in components that aren't faulty. Some errors
    happens from 'flakey'ness' - you see it as an error, but you cannot bring
    the component to fail in a test. Swapping, often times, is the proper cure
    for this phenomenon - and, naturally, buying good quality memory - I prefer
    those with coolers, (Geil, or something). And, some of the things I like
    about the little tool at the end of that link, is that it comes as an *.ISO,
    and there's a nine-page manual that makes it a learning package for an
    amateur, such as I.

    Greetings. (and that goes for Kate and all the others too)

    Tony. . .


    "David R. Norton MVP" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns96CEBAEA04CAdrnortonyahoocom@127.0.0.1...
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in:
    >
    >> Why not try testing the memory, someone here posted this link that I
    >> immediately included in my toolbox:
    >>
    >> http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
    >>
    >> and here are alternatives out there.

    >
    > I have a memory tester that I have faith in but it's much easier to pull
    > one
    > and see if that fixes it or, if not, to pull the other one and put the
    > first
    > one back. My failures are so very infrequent that I don't know if I have
    > the
    > patience but I will give the memory test a shot since I'm going to be gone
    > in
    > about 15 minutes and won't be back until tomorrow afternoon. Memory tests
    > require a VERY long time to run if you want a complete test and since my
    > failure is less than once every day I may not show up a failure even if I
    > run
    > it 24 hours....
    >
    >
    > --
    > David R. Norton MVP
    > <>
     
    Tony Sperling, Sep 12, 2005
    #8
  9. "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    news:eJ%...
    > Well, David, the reason my interest was triggered, was that you suggested
    > just pulling one stick and watch for possible effects. While that, of
    > course, is fruitful course of action, I do think it is 'time wastin',

    albeit
    > on a smaller scale. Your chanses of a 'hit' is 50% and - in your

    situation -
    > you'll have to wait a couple of days before having any firm indication.
    > Surely, swapping the sticks from the beginning, has a much higher

    potential.

    Swapping with what? Even with the reduced price of memory I have two and
    only two sticks and they are both in the machine, the only way I have of
    testing is to pull one, see if the remaining stick fails and then remove it
    and insert the other to see if it will fail.

    > A good memory test-suit, I suspect, puts the memory under much higher

    stress
    > than normal operation, and - allowing for some 'randomness in errors' -
    > probably would expose a weak component in a succession of over-night runs,
    > not neccessarily a continuous run over several days. Plus, any reported
    > errors identifies the exact component at fault.


    Correct if there were such a thing as a "good" memory test. I found no
    errors with the MS test running 12 hours nor did I expect to. The few very
    nasty memory failures I've encountered require that something be stored in
    the failing position(s) and then NOT ADDRESSED for as long as an hour. Any
    test that runs and addresses that failing position repeatedly will not cause
    a failure. <sigh>

    That's why pulling one stick is my remaining option and.... it still might
    be a HD or MB failure.

    I expect that, given the amount of time I have available to work on this
    problem, I'll probably still have the bug as long as I have my current
    computer. :-(

    --
    David R. Norton MVP (shell/user)
     
    David R. Norton, Sep 12, 2005
    #9
  10. =?Utf-8?B?a2F0ZQ==?=

    MHPNW STAFF Guest

    I had the very same problem...... never once had a prob when I had 2 sticks
    of Geil memory.... But I upgraded to 2 sticks of Corsair when I went to 2
    Gigs .... now I have intermittent lock ups... even with the memory timings
    set manually....
    I'm switching back to the Geil's Sticks ....


    "David R. Norton" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    >
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > news:eJ%...
    > > Well, David, the reason my interest was triggered, was that you

    suggested
    > > just pulling one stick and watch for possible effects. While that, of
    > > course, is fruitful course of action, I do think it is 'time wastin',

    > albeit
    > > on a smaller scale. Your chanses of a 'hit' is 50% and - in your

    > situation -
    > > you'll have to wait a couple of days before having any firm indication.
    > > Surely, swapping the sticks from the beginning, has a much higher

    > potential.
    >
    > Swapping with what? Even with the reduced price of memory I have two and
    > only two sticks and they are both in the machine, the only way I have of
    > testing is to pull one, see if the remaining stick fails and then remove

    it
    > and insert the other to see if it will fail.
    >
    > > A good memory test-suit, I suspect, puts the memory under much higher

    > stress
    > > than normal operation, and - allowing for some 'randomness in errors' -
    > > probably would expose a weak component in a succession of over-night

    runs,
    > > not neccessarily a continuous run over several days. Plus, any reported
    > > errors identifies the exact component at fault.

    >
    > Correct if there were such a thing as a "good" memory test. I found no
    > errors with the MS test running 12 hours nor did I expect to. The few

    very
    > nasty memory failures I've encountered require that something be stored in
    > the failing position(s) and then NOT ADDRESSED for as long as an hour.

    Any
    > test that runs and addresses that failing position repeatedly will not

    cause
    > a failure. <sigh>
    >
    > That's why pulling one stick is my remaining option and.... it still might
    > be a HD or MB failure.
    >
    > I expect that, given the amount of time I have available to work on this
    > problem, I'll probably still have the bug as long as I have my current
    > computer. :-(
    >
    > --
    > David R. Norton MVP (shell/user)
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    MHPNW STAFF, Sep 12, 2005
    #10
  11. "David R. Norton" <> wrote in message
    news:%...
    >
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in message
    > news:eJ%...
    > > Well, David, the reason my interest was triggered,

    >

    ---
    >
    > Swapping with what? Even with the reduced price of memory I have two and
    > only two sticks and they are both in the machine, the only way I have of
    > testing is to pull one, see if the remaining stick fails and then remove

    it
    > and insert the other to see if it will fail.
    >

    ---
    Oh, I mean, swap them in their sockets ( 1 to 2 - 2 to 1), although, some
    people have only one stick then this method won't work. The thing is,
    especially if it is flaky memory, that something triggers the error,
    different things access different parts of memory - not least during
    start-up, or opening and closing app's. So, swapping the sticks could very
    well give you a stable system at no extra cost. Of course, if it is
    malfunctioning, there is no cure for that except identifying the component
    and try getting a refund.
    ---
    > > A good memory test-suit, I suspect, puts the memory under much higher

    > stress

    ---
    >
    > Correct if there were such a thing as a "good" memory test. I found no
    > errors with the MS test running 12 hours nor did I expect to. The few

    very
    > nasty memory failures I've encountered require that something be stored in
    > the failing position(s) and then NOT ADDRESSED for as long as an hour.

    Any
    > test that runs and addresses that failing position repeatedly will not

    cause
    > a failure. <sigh>
    >

    ---
    Honestly, David, I have a hard time going into an argument with you on the
    issue of memory technology, you are much better informed han I am. But if
    you say is true, then that contradicts most of what I have learned about it.
    To keep this painfully short - memory are little capacitors - capacitors
    leak, that's why RAM is said to be volatile. So before we lose our memory it
    has to be updated and within the read/write cycle of this operation nothing
    else can access that memory cell. So, anything that makes the charge in the
    cell go away within two consecutive r/w cycles can be labeled 'a memory
    error', such errors are not enormously rare but can be corrected in most
    cases - when they cannot be corrected it IS flagged as a memory error. But
    you never can predict how all the little stuff inside the memory pool will
    react to these little errors that are not flagged by the memory sub-system.

    I did not believe that an error could sit inside a cell for any length of
    time and not be detected by a tester. That is shocking news to me. I just
    didn't believe your every-day error would be happening consistently enough
    to be able to be flagged by the tester when it was not flagged by the memory
    sub-system. 'Chaos theory' kind of stuff, you know.

    David, I think it would be quite interesting if you would humor an old
    geezer and swap those sticks - just for a larf, perhaps. I cannot say I
    think it will work, but I've seen it work small wonders enough to say that
    it may.
    ---
    > That's why pulling one stick is my remaining option and.... it still might
    > be a HD or MB failure.
    >

    ---
    yeah, or the power unit?
    ---
    > I expect that, given the amount of time I have available to work on this
    > problem, I'll probably still have the bug as long as I have my current
    > computer. :-(

    ---
    I know the kind, with me it was a VIA chip set that wouldn't budge with
    nVidia, or vice-versa.
    ---
    >
    > --
    > David R. Norton MVP (shell/user)
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >


    Tony. . .
     
    Tony Sperling, Sep 12, 2005
    #11
  12. "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in:

    > Oh, I mean, swap them in their sockets ( 1 to 2 - 2 to 1), although,
    > some people have only one stick then this method won't work. The thing
    > is, especially if it is flaky memory, that something triggers the error,
    > different things access different parts of memory - not least during
    > start-up, or opening and closing app's. So, swapping the sticks could
    > very well give you a stable system at no extra cost. Of course, if it is
    > malfunctioning, there is no cure for that except identifying the
    > component and try getting a refund.


    I'm trying to avoid the problems of swapping OR removing one stick.
    Unfortunately for me, my system is less accessable than it might be so I'd
    much prefer to leave a bowl of milk and some cookies on the computer and
    hope the computer brownies will do the swap for me. I can't access the
    memory w/o moving the printer and laying the case on it's side. It didn't
    used to be a problem but as time goes by it's become a very difficult
    chore. Heck, I even bankrupted myself to get a flat screen monitor
    because I'm no longer able to lift the CRT monitor if it ever needed it...

    > I did not believe that an error could sit inside a cell for any length
    > of time and not be detected by a tester. That is shocking news to me.


    Why should it be? When I started working on computers in 1960 I had a list
    of 500 things that were impossible, the list is now down to two and I'm not
    sure about one of them anymore. I really don't believe that anything is
    impossible where computers are concerned although I'm almost sure, after
    years of struggling, that it's impossible for me to run Linux...... but I'm
    still trying!

    > David, I think it would be quite interesting if you would humor an old
    > geezer and swap those sticks - just for a larf, perhaps. I cannot say I
    > think it will work, but I've seen it work small wonders enough to say
    > that it may.


    It might, who knows. When (and if) I open the case I'll consider my options.


    --
    David R. Norton MVP
    <>
     
    David R. Norton MVP, Sep 13, 2005
    #12
  13. Thanks, David.

    I find this shocking, because of the leaking capacity of Capacitors (hmm?),
    your words in mind, this would mean that testing, on it's own, would
    introduce subversion of the memory sub-system and that the corrections it
    would be expected to make (part of it's more prominent job) is also,
    therefore, subverted - and that this actually mean that testing memory can
    never be expected to find an error unless the part is electronically broken,
    resulting in consistent failure in the read/write procedure? Doesn't this
    imply that memory test software is bypassing the sub-system? Surely, it
    shouldn't be doing that?

    No?

    On the other hand, if you cannot test for 'flaky' memory, then perhaps that
    makes sense of the 'swapping' I mentioned. Not that I want to persuade you -
    your hunches are certainly as good as, or better than, mine concerning your
    own equipment, and I don't want you to break the things that do work for
    you, as in the day-to-day organization of things. I've prided myself for
    quite some time that I understod machines precisely because 'function is
    language' and you have managed to make a dent in that pride. For which I
    thank you. . .pride is useless and these things always end up being fruitful
    anyway.

    So, to everyone else with unstable machinery who has been following this - I
    would love some feed-back on the results of your own experiments with
    swapping your memory sticks. Perhaps we should end this thread so as not to
    loose ourselves, but please do tell us of your experiences.

    Finally, this all reminds me of something someone - I think it was one of
    your Presidents - said:

    "Today, things are, increasingly, like they never were before."

    Tony. . .


    "David R. Norton MVP" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns96CFDE596FD8Adrnortonyahoocom@127.0.0.1...
    > "Tony Sperling" <> wrote in:
    >
    >> Oh, I mean, swap them in their sockets ( 1 to 2 - 2 to 1), although,
    >> some people have only one stick then this method won't work. The thing
    >> is, especially if it is flaky memory, that something triggers the error,
    >> different things access different parts of memory - not least during
    >> start-up, or opening and closing app's. So, swapping the sticks could
    >> very well give you a stable system at no extra cost. Of course, if it is
    >> malfunctioning, there is no cure for that except identifying the
    >> component and try getting a refund.

    >
    > I'm trying to avoid the problems of swapping OR removing one stick.
    > Unfortunately for me, my system is less accessable than it might be so I'd
    > much prefer to leave a bowl of milk and some cookies on the computer and
    > hope the computer brownies will do the swap for me. I can't access the
    > memory w/o moving the printer and laying the case on it's side. It didn't
    > used to be a problem but as time goes by it's become a very difficult
    > chore. Heck, I even bankrupted myself to get a flat screen monitor
    > because I'm no longer able to lift the CRT monitor if it ever needed it...
    >
    >> I did not believe that an error could sit inside a cell for any length
    >> of time and not be detected by a tester. That is shocking news to me.

    >
    > Why should it be? When I started working on computers in 1960 I had a
    > list
    > of 500 things that were impossible, the list is now down to two and I'm
    > not
    > sure about one of them anymore. I really don't believe that anything is
    > impossible where computers are concerned although I'm almost sure, after
    > years of struggling, that it's impossible for me to run Linux...... but
    > I'm
    > still trying!
    >
    >> David, I think it would be quite interesting if you would humor an old
    >> geezer and swap those sticks - just for a larf, perhaps. I cannot say I
    >> think it will work, but I've seen it work small wonders enough to say
    >> that it may.

    >
    > It might, who knows. When (and if) I open the case I'll consider my
    > options.
    >
    >
    > --
    > David R. Norton MVP
    > <>
     
    Tony Sperling, Sep 13, 2005
    #13
  14. Just a small thought / addition to this thread. This seems somewhat similar
    to my issue in an earlier thread. Please see "Do I need to upgrade to XP
    64?" started on 9/9/05.

    I took the advice offered and ensured that all my chipset drivers were
    installed (CD came with new machine). After that, only the Marvel Ethernet
    driver was old.

    I have left the older driver and I am stable. It has been only 2-3 days of
    stability but that is far better than I have had so far.

    Florian
    >
     
    =?Utf-8?B?Rmxvcmlhbg==?=, Sep 14, 2005
    #14
  15. "Florian" <> wrote in:

    > Just a small thought / addition to this thread. This seems somewhat
    > similar to my issue in an earlier thread. Please see "Do I need to
    > upgrade to XP 64?" started on 9/9/05.


    I may have found the problem, it might have been the harddrive connector.
    Time will tell but so far, no freezes.

    I use a swappable harddrive and it's been unswapped for a very long time. I
    removed it, replaced it and that seems to have cleaned the contacts
    sufficiently to solve the problem. Since my other harddrive has expired, I
    have no need of swapping and in a couple of days I'll mount this one directly
    into the case w/o the drive caddy if the freezes are gone.

    Or I could always mount my 250M HD and build a DOS 5.0/Windows 3.1 system...
    <G>

    --
    David R. Norton MVP
    <>
     
    David R. Norton MVP, Sep 15, 2005
    #15
  16. Seemed like a good idea, tried this but no luck.
    Did get my 3dmark05 score up from 3000 to over 4500. Pity every real game I
    try to run freezes. Pity also that according to Futuremarks comparison site,
    this is still about 4000 short of what other people get running 32 bit XP on
    similar hardware.

    "Andre Da Costa" wrote:

    > If you are using nVidia chipset upgrade to the latest drivers? Also check
    > your device manager to see if all the devices are fully installed and
    > functioning properly.
    > --
    > Andre
    > Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    > Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    > http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    > FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
    > "kate" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > my x64 keeps freezing about twice a day and i have to keep on rebooting
    > > it...is anyone else having a similar problem? please help, thanks

    >
    >
     
    =?Utf-8?B?R29yZXNo?=, Sep 22, 2005
    #16
  17. Kate,
    do you by any chance have a dual core or dual cpu's?


    "kate" wrote:

    > my x64 keeps freezing about twice a day and i have to keep on rebooting
    > it...is anyone else having a similar problem? please help, thanks
     
    =?Utf-8?B?R29yZXNo?=, Sep 22, 2005
    #17
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