Compact, lightweight, ten times zoom AND viewfinder in one camera

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Robert Montgomery, Jul 21, 2010.

  1. Are there any compact, lightweight cameras that have both a good
    telephoto capability (i.e. ten times zoom) and a viewfinder?

    I can find compact, lightweight cameras with ten times zoom, and compact
    lightweight cameras with viewfinders.

    But I have yet to find a camera that has all of these characteristics:
    • compact
    • lightweight
    • has at least a seven times zoom lens AND
    • has a viewfinder.

    I can hardly see the image on the monitors of cameras on sunny days
    because of all the light and glare – both in shooting mode and playback
    mode.

    It seems to me that any camera lacking a viewfinder is a camera for
    amateurs. And I don't understand why even amateurs wouldn't be bothered
    by this problem.

    I can't understand why consumers don't demand viewfinders.

    I was even told by a clerk at a photography store that viewfinders are
    less frequent on the new cameras!

    Robert
     
    Robert Montgomery, Jul 21, 2010
    #1
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  2. "Savageduck" <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote in message
    news:2010072107171522503-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
    > On 2010-07-21 07:00:07 -0700, Robert Montgomery
    > <> said:
    >
    >> Are there any compact, lightweight cameras that have both a good
    >> telephoto capability (i.e. ten times zoom) and a viewfinder?
    >>
    >> I can find compact, lightweight cameras with ten times zoom, and
    >> compact lightweight cameras with viewfinders.
    >>
    >> But I have yet to find a camera that has all of these characteristics:
    >> • compact
    >> • lightweight
    >> • has at least a seven times zoom lens AND
    >> • has a viewfinder.
    >>
    >> I can hardly see the image on the monitors of cameras on sunny days
    >> because of all the light and glare – both in shooting mode and playback
    >> mode.
    >>
    >> It seems to me that any camera lacking a viewfinder is a camera for
    >> amateurs. And I don't understand why even amateurs wouldn't be bothered
    >> by this problem.
    >>
    >> I can't understand why consumers don't demand viewfinders.
    >>
    >> I was even told by a clerk at a photography store that viewfinders are
    >> less frequent on the new cameras!
    >>
    >> Robert

    >
    > Well, if you will settle for 5X "optical zoom" there is the Canon G11.
    >
    > --
    > Regards,
    >
    > Savageduck


    ... or if you settle for less lightweight and less compact many DSLRs can
    be used with an 11x zoom (18-200mm) and have an optical viewfinder.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jul 21, 2010
    #2
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  3. Robert Montgomery

    Rich Guest

    On Jul 21, 10:00 am, Robert Montgomery <info-bl...@northern-data-
    tech.net> wrote:
    > Are there any compact, lightweight cameras that have both a good
    > telephoto capability (i.e. ten times zoom) and  a viewfinder?
    >
    > I can find compact, lightweight cameras with ten times zoom, and compact
    > lightweight cameras with viewfinders.
    >
    > But I have yet to find a camera that has all of these characteristics:
    > • compact
    > • lightweight
    > • has at least a seven times zoom lens AND
    > • has a viewfinder.
    >
    > I can hardly see the image on the monitors of cameras on sunny days
    > because of all the light and glare – both in shooting mode and playback
    > mode.
    >
    > It seems to me that any camera lacking a viewfinder is a camera for
    > amateurs. And I don't understand why even amateurs wouldn't be bothered
    > by this problem.
    >
    > I can't understand why consumers don't demand viewfinders.
    >
    > I was even told by a clerk at a photography store that viewfinders are
    > less frequent on the new cameras!
    >
    > Robert


    Check out the latest P&S offerings on Dpreview.

    www.dpreview.com
     
    Rich, Jul 21, 2010
    #3
  4. Robert Montgomery

    ray Guest

    Re: Compact, lightweight, ten times zoom AND viewfinder in onecamera

    On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:00:07 +0000, Robert Montgomery wrote:

    > Are there any compact, lightweight cameras that have both a good
    > telephoto capability (i.e. ten times zoom) and a viewfinder?
    >
    > I can find compact, lightweight cameras with ten times zoom, and compact
    > lightweight cameras with viewfinders.
    >
    > But I have yet to find a camera that has all of these characteristics: •
    > compact
    > • lightweight
    > • has at least a seven times zoom lens AND • has a viewfinder.
    >
    > I can hardly see the image on the monitors of cameras on sunny days
    > because of all the light and glare – both in shooting mode and playback
    > mode.
    >
    > It seems to me that any camera lacking a viewfinder is a camera for
    > amateurs. And I don't understand why even amateurs wouldn't be bothered
    > by this problem.
    >
    > I can't understand why consumers don't demand viewfinders.
    >
    > I was even told by a clerk at a photography store that viewfinders are
    > less frequent on the new cameras!
    >
    > Robert


    Look at an EVF. And keep in mind that 'compact' and 'long zoom' are, to a
    large extent, contradictory.
     
    ray, Jul 21, 2010
    #4
  5. Robert Montgomery

    Irwell Guest

    On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:00:07 GMT, Robert Montgomery wrote:

    > Are there any compact, lightweight cameras that have both a good
    > telephoto capability (i.e. ten times zoom) and a viewfinder?


    The LCD is a viewfinder, you can always use a collapsible
    hood to obviate the sun wash-out and glare.
     
    Irwell, Jul 21, 2010
    #5
  6. Robert Montgomery

    Dave Cohen Guest

    Robert Montgomery wrote:
    > Are there any compact, lightweight cameras that have both a good
    > telephoto capability (i.e. ten times zoom) and a viewfinder?
    >
    > I can find compact, lightweight cameras with ten times zoom, and compact
    > lightweight cameras with viewfinders.
    >
    > But I have yet to find a camera that has all of these characteristics:
    > • compact
    > • lightweight
    > • has at least a seven times zoom lens AND
    > • has a viewfinder.
    >
    > I can hardly see the image on the monitors of cameras on sunny days
    > because of all the light and glare – both in shooting mode and playback
    > mode.
    >
    > It seems to me that any camera lacking a viewfinder is a camera for
    > amateurs. And I don't understand why even amateurs wouldn't be bothered
    > by this problem.


    My guess is they are (at least I am), but short of starting your own
    camera company what's to be done. I have to assume the stuff on the
    shelves does well in the market. Once you get away from the shirt pocket
    sizes there are some choices less expensive than G11 or DSLR.
    >
    > I can't understand why consumers don't demand viewfinders.
    >
    > I was even told by a clerk at a photography store that viewfinders are
    > less frequent on the new cameras!
    >
    > Robert
     
    Dave Cohen, Jul 21, 2010
    #6
  7. Robert Montgomery

    J. Clarke Guest

    On 7/21/2010 10:00 AM, Robert Montgomery wrote:
    > Are there any compact, lightweight cameras that have both a good
    > telephoto capability (i.e. ten times zoom) and a viewfinder?
    >
    > I can find compact, lightweight cameras with ten times zoom, and compact
    > lightweight cameras with viewfinders.
    >
    > But I have yet to find a camera that has all of these characteristics:
    > • compact
    > • lightweight
    > • has at least a seven times zoom lens AND
    > • has a viewfinder.
    >
    > I can hardly see the image on the monitors of cameras on sunny days
    > because of all the light and glare – both in shooting mode and playback
    > mode.
    >
    > It seems to me that any camera lacking a viewfinder is a camera for
    > amateurs. And I don't understand why even amateurs wouldn't be bothered
    > by this problem.
    >
    > I can't understand why consumers don't demand viewfinders.
    >
    > I was even told by a clerk at a photography store that viewfinders are
    > less frequent on the new cameras!


    Forget "clerks in photography stores". Go down to Best Buy and look at
    what's on display. They should have at least two models with what you
    are looking for and may have others.

    Or if you are in or near NYC, go down to B&H.
     
    J. Clarke, Jul 21, 2010
    #7
  8. Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2010-07-21 07:00:07 -0700, Robert Montgomery
    > <> said:
    >
    >> Are there any compact, lightweight cameras that have both a good
    >> telephoto capability (i.e. ten times zoom) and a viewfinder?
    >>
    >> I can find compact, lightweight cameras with ten times zoom, and
    >> compact lightweight cameras with viewfinders.
    >>
    >> But I have yet to find a camera that has all of these characteristics:
    >> • compact
    >> • lightweight
    >> • has at least a seven times zoom lens AND
    >> • has a viewfinder.
    >>
    >> I can hardly see the image on the monitors of cameras on sunny days
    >> because of all the light and glare – both in shooting mode and
    >> playback mode.
    >>
    >> It seems to me that any camera lacking a viewfinder is a camera for
    >> amateurs. And I don't understand why even amateurs wouldn't be
    >> bothered by this problem.
    >>
    >> I can't understand why consumers don't demand viewfinders.
    >>
    >> I was even told by a clerk at a photography store that viewfinders are
    >> less frequent on the new cameras!
    >>
    >> Robert

    >
    > Well, if you will settle for 5X "optical zoom" there is the Canon G11.


    Thanks, Savage.

    I recently bought a Samsung PL-150, which has a five times zoom. I
    bought it for the front monitor, which allows for self-portraits, but I
    find that it doesn't zoom enough and it lacks a viewfinder.

    Robert
     
    Robert Montgomery, Jul 21, 2010
    #8
  9. Irwell wrote:
    > On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:00:07 GMT, Robert Montgomery wrote:
    >
    >> Are there any compact, lightweight cameras that have both a good
    >> telephoto capability (i.e. ten times zoom) and a viewfinder?

    >
    > The LCD is a viewfinder, you can always use a collapsible
    > hood to obviate the sun wash-out and glare.


    Thanks, Irwell.

    Would a collapsible hood fit properly on all small digital cameras?

    Robert
     
    Robert Montgomery, Jul 21, 2010
    #9
  10. Rich wrote:
    > On Jul 21, 10:00 am, Robert Montgomery<info-bl...@northern-data-
    > tech.net> wrote:


    >> But I have yet to find a camera that has all of these characteristics:
    >> • compact
    >> • lightweight
    >> • has at least a seven times zoom lens AND
    >> • has a viewfinder.

    >
    > Check out the latest P&S offerings on Dpreview.
    >
    > www.dpreview.com


    Thanks.

    Does anybody know of any offhand? I've already looked considerably at
    http://www.photographyblog.com, but I can't find any.

    Robert
     
    Robert Montgomery, Jul 21, 2010
    #10
  11. Robert Montgomery

    krishnananda Guest

    In article <H3D1o.9549$Z6.2826@edtnps82>,
    Robert Montgomery <> wrote:

    > It seems to me that any camera lacking a viewfinder is a camera for
    > amateurs. And I don't understand why even amateurs wouldn't be bothered
    > by this problem.


    Not always the case. The Leica If (1952 - 1958) was a Leica IIIf body
    without rangefinder or viewfinder, intended for technical use like
    mounted on a microscope or Visoflex reflex viewer.
     
    krishnananda, Jul 21, 2010
    #11
  12. Robert Montgomery wrote:

    > Are there any compact, lightweight cameras that have both a good
    > telephoto capability (i.e. ten times zoom) and a viewfinder?
    >
    > I can find compact, lightweight cameras with ten times zoom, and compact
    > lightweight cameras with viewfinders.
    >
    > But I have yet to find a camera that has all of these characteristics:
    > • compact
    > • lightweight
    > • has at least a seven times zoom lens AND
    > • has a viewfinder.
    >
    > I can hardly see the image on the monitors of cameras on sunny days
    > because of all the light and glare – both in shooting mode and playback
    > mode.
    >
    > It seems to me that any camera lacking a viewfinder is a camera for
    > amateurs. And I don't understand why even amateurs wouldn't be bothered
    > by this problem.
    >
    > I can't understand why consumers don't demand viewfinders.
    >
    > I was even told by a clerk at a photography store that viewfinders are
    > less frequent on the new cameras!
    >
    > Robert

    Olympus has two compact cameras, one with 26X and the new one, the
    SP-800UZ with 30X. They're larger than P & S and smaller than SLR's. I
    haven't looked at the specs for the 800UZ, but the older model has both
    live view and viewfinder. However, neither model has a mirror, so that
    makes them EVF cameras. Neither, as I'm sure you know, has
    interchangeable lenses.
     
    Alan Lichtenstein, Jul 21, 2010
    #12
  13. Robert Montgomery

    Irwell Guest

    On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:23:58 GMT, Robert Montgomery wrote:


    >
    > Would a collapsible hood fit properly on all small digital cameras?
    >
    > Robert


    They usually come with some sort of attaching
    bands, or you can just hold it against the LCD
    with one hand and the pressure of your eyesocket,
    a bonus is you will get a steadier picture than the
    usual 'arm-length' posture.
     
    Irwell, Jul 21, 2010
    #13
  14. Robert Montgomery

    John Turco Guest

    Robert Montgomery wrote:
    >
    > Are there any compact, lightweight cameras that have both a good
    > telephoto capability (i.e. ten times zoom) and a viewfinder?
    >
    > I can find compact, lightweight cameras with ten times zoom, and compact
    > lightweight cameras with viewfinders.


    Any "compact" digicam, featuring an optical zoom ratio of 10x, will be
    rather bulkier. In order to accommodate the longer focal length of the
    lens, the depth of the body (i.e., the front-to-back dimension), >must<
    be increased.

    Also, a 10x optical viewfinder would suffer severe parallax issues, as
    well as being a bit complex and cumbersome. Therefore, every "super zoom"
    model contains an electronic viewfinder ("EVF") -- which "sees" exactly
    what both the lens, and the image sensor, do.

    > But I have yet to find a camera that has all of these characteristics:
    > • compact
    > • lightweight
    > • has at least a seven times zoom lens AND
    > • has a viewfinder.


    7x is quite the oddball, indeed! Below 10x, 3x is typical and 5x seems
    to be the only other option, even remotely common.

    > I can hardly see the image on the monitors of cameras on sunny days
    > because of all the light and glare – both in shooting mode and playback
    > mode.
    >
    > It seems to me that any camera lacking a viewfinder is a camera for
    > amateurs. And I don't understand why even amateurs wouldn't be bothered
    > by this problem.
    >
    > I can't understand why consumers don't demand viewfinders.


    Certain items exist (e.g., Delkin Devices "Pop-Up Shades"), to alleviate
    this problem. They're hinged, come in several sizes and colors (to fit
    different LCD screens and cameras) and are attached by self-adhesive
    strips.

    In July of 2009, at a local Wal-Mart store, I'd stumbled upon nine such
    Pop-Up Shades. Originally $9.97 USD each, but, clearance-priced at $1.

    Thus, I bought 'em all; I've never applied any of them, however.

    > I was even told by a clerk at a photography store that viewfinders are
    > less frequent on the new cameras!
    >
    > Robert


    That's been the tendency, these past few years. Today, the large LCD
    VF is dominant, and it occupies the majority of a given digicam's back
    panel.

    Good luck and happy hunting, Robert!

    --
    Cordially,
    John Turco <>

    Marie's Musings <http://fairiesandtails.blogspot.com>
     
    John Turco, Jul 22, 2010
    #14
  15. Robert Montgomery

    whisky-dave Guest

    "Robert Montgomery" <> wrote in message
    news:%fF1o.9712$z%6.1562@edtnps83...
    > Rich wrote:
    >> On Jul 21, 10:00 am, Robert Montgomery<info-bl...@northern-data-
    >> tech.net> wrote:

    >
    >>> But I have yet to find a camera that has all of these characteristics:
    >>> • compact
    >>> • lightweight
    >>> • has at least a seven times zoom lens AND
    >>> • has a viewfinder.

    >>
    >> Check out the latest P&S offerings on Dpreview.
    >>
    >> www.dpreview.com

    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > Does anybody know of any offhand? I've already looked considerably at
    > http://www.photographyblog.com, but I can't find any.


    I thought the pen EP1 or EP2 had that ability or you could add a viwfinder
    as an option.

    >
    > Robert
     
    whisky-dave, Jul 22, 2010
    #15
  16. Robert Montgomery

    John Turco Guest

    bugbear wrote:
    >
    > John Turco wrote:
    >
    > > That's been the tendency, these past few years. Today, the large LCD
    > > VF is dominant, and it occupies the majority of a given digicam's back
    > > panel.

    >
    > That's because of some driving consumer desires:
    >
    > * smaller cameras
    > * desire to use a camera as a display device,
    > so larger displays are better
    >
    > The limit is a display the size of the camera,
    > which leaves no room for (separate) viewfinder
    > or controls.
    >
    > Consequently, the LCD is obliged to function
    > as both viewfinder ("EVF", user interface
    > (menu, display, previews, adjustments) and
    > controls (touch screen).
    >
    > BugBear



    My latest digicam is a Kodak Z780, with a 24x optical zoom lens. It's
    so big, it has room for both an EVF >and< a 3" LCD!

    --
    Cordially,
    John Turco <>

    Marie's Musings <http://fairiesandtails.blogspot.com>
     
    John Turco, Aug 16, 2010
    #16
  17. Robert Montgomery

    SMS Guest

    On 21/07/10 7:00 AM, Robert Montgomery wrote:
    > Are there any compact, lightweight cameras that have both a good
    > telephoto capability (i.e. ten times zoom) and a viewfinder?
    >
    > I can find compact, lightweight cameras with ten times zoom, and compact
    > lightweight cameras with viewfinders.
    >
    > But I have yet to find a camera that has all of these characteristics:
    > • compact
    > • lightweight
    > • has at least a seven times zoom lens AND
    > • has a viewfinder.


    There are none available anymore.

    > I can hardly see the image on the monitors of cameras on sunny days
    > because of all the light and glare – both in shooting mode and playback
    > mode.


    Indeed, the lack of an optical viewfinder is a huge disadvantage.

    > It seems to me that any camera lacking a viewfinder is a camera for
    > amateurs. And I don't understand why even amateurs wouldn't be bothered
    > by this problem.


    It's not that they're not bothered by it, but those amateurs have all
    switched to digital SLRs that do have an OVF.

    An EVF is an acceptable compromise, and most of the ZLRs have an EVF,
    but ZLRs are not all that popular because they offer a physical size
    close to that of an SLR, while not providing the significant advantages
    of a DSLR.

    > I can't understand why consumers don't demand viewfinders.


    It's a race to the bottom by the manufacturers who market megapixels and
    LCD sizes. To add the cost of an OVF (which also takes up space where a
    larger LCD could be placed) is not something they want to do.

    "http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/cameraList.php" provides an easy way
    to filter out different criteria you're looking for.

    If you select "6x-9x" or "10x-14x" under "optical zoom," and tick the
    box for "optical/electronic viewfinder" there are no results until you
    also tick the box for "Show discontinued models."

    Such is life. The popularity and fall in prices of D-SLRs have allowed
    the camera manufacturers to decontent the P&S cameras.
     
    SMS, Aug 16, 2010
    #17
  18. Robert Montgomery

    Irwell Guest

    On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:38:23 -0700, SMS wrote:

    >
    >> I can't understand why consumers don't demand viewfinders.

    >
    > It's a race to the bottom by the manufacturers who market megapixels and
    > LCD sizes. To add the cost of an OVF (which also takes up space where a
    > larger LCD could be placed) is not something they want to do.


    There maybe hope if this comes about:
    http://www.epson.jp/e/products/device/htps/application/evf.htm
     
    Irwell, Aug 16, 2010
    #18
  19. Robert Montgomery

    J. Clarke Guest

    On 8/16/2010 4:06 PM, Irwell wrote:
    > On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:38:23 -0700, SMS wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>> I can't understand why consumers don't demand viewfinders.

    >>
    >> It's a race to the bottom by the manufacturers who market megapixels and
    >> LCD sizes. To add the cost of an OVF (which also takes up space where a
    >> larger LCD could be placed) is not something they want to do.

    >
    > There maybe hope if this comes about:
    > http://www.epson.jp/e/products/device/htps/application/evf.htm


    If what comes out, electronic viewfinders? What rock have you been
    hiding under?
     
    J. Clarke, Aug 16, 2010
    #19
  20. Robert Montgomery

    Irwell Guest

    On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:51:15 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

    > If what comes out, electronic viewfinders?


    No the making of smaller profile EVFs
    Maybe I got it wrong but it seems to imply that the Epson
    technology will results in a smaller profile EVF suitable
    for P&S.
    > What rock have you been hiding under?


    My present Panasonic G1 has the usual
    hump rather like the SLR viewfinder.
    6 years ago I had a Panasonic FZ20 with an EVF - similar profile. The
    present range of Interchangeable lens P&S's like the EPL1 from Olympus
    have an optional EVF ()that plugs into the hot shoe, still bulky
    and fairly expensive.

    So if the EVF technology from Epson can result in a smaller
    profile with a good EVF for P&S cameras it will be welcomed
    by a lot of users, I should think.
     
    Irwell, Aug 17, 2010
    #20
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