Comedy in camera reviews, Dpreview and the E-P1

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Rich, Aug 4, 2009.

  1. Rich

    Rich Guest

    This:

    "The E-P1 is an exercise in pared-down styling with a distinctly retro
    design that will appeal to anyone nostalgic for the salad days of 35mm
    photography, before the preponderance of plastics and auto everything
    operation"

    The specifications of the camera in the review state metal body as
    well. Problem is, the body is 90% plastic with metal top and bottom
    plates and a metal skin around the outside. This camera is no more
    metal than the E-410 or E-420 was. The lenses are almost completely
    plastic except for the glass in them.

    For the record, Olympus, my 35mm 35 RC Olympus rangefinder is about
    the same weight as the E-P1, smaller and is nearly all metal.
    Rich, Aug 4, 2009
    #1
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  2. Rich

    Irwell Guest

    On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:53:48 -0700 (PDT), Rich wrote:

    > This:
    >
    > "The E-P1 is an exercise in pared-down styling with a distinctly retro
    > design that will appeal to anyone nostalgic for the salad days of 35mm
    > photography, before the preponderance of plastics and auto everything
    > operation"
    >
    > The specifications of the camera in the review state metal body as
    > well. Problem is, the body is 90% plastic with metal top and bottom
    > plates and a metal skin around the outside. This camera is no more
    > metal than the E-410 or E-420 was. The lenses are almost completely
    > plastic except for the glass in them.
    >
    > For the record, Olympus, my 35mm 35 RC Olympus rangefinder is about
    > the same weight as the E-P1, smaller and is nearly all metal.


    But the best optics you will ever possess are a quishy gel substance,
    aqua vitreous or some such name.
    Irwell, Aug 4, 2009
    #2
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  3. Rich

    Twibil Guest

    On Aug 3, 7:40 pm, Irwell <> wrote:
    >
    > But the best optics you will ever possess are a quishy gel substance,
    > aqua vitreous or some such name.


    Wanna tell that to someone who's just had to have eye surgery -and
    lens replacements- due to cataracts?
    Twibil, Aug 4, 2009
    #3
  4. Rich

    Rich Guest

    On Aug 3, 10:40 pm, Irwell <> wrote:
    > On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:53:48 -0700 (PDT), Rich wrote:
    > > This:

    >
    > > "The E-P1 is an exercise in pared-down styling with a distinctly retro
    > > design that will appeal to anyone nostalgic for the salad days of 35mm
    > > photography, before the preponderance of plastics and auto everything
    > > operation"

    >
    > > The specifications of the camera in the review state metal body as
    > > well.  Problem is, the body is 90% plastic with metal top and bottom
    > > plates and a metal skin around the outside.  This camera is no more
    > > metal than the E-410 or E-420 was.  The lenses are almost completely
    > > plastic except for the glass in them.

    >
    > > For the record, Olympus, my 35mm 35 RC Olympus rangefinder is about
    > > the same weight as the E-P1, smaller and is nearly all metal.

    >
    > But the best optics you will ever possess are a quishy gel substance,
    > aqua vitreous or some such name.


    No, that ends up suffused in "floaters" by age 50, which can become
    annoying when using high magnification optical products.
    Rich, Aug 4, 2009
    #4
  5. Rich

    mianileng Guest

    "Rich" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > The lenses are almost completely
    > plastic except for the glass in them.


    ????
    mianileng, Aug 4, 2009
    #5
  6. Rich

    Twibil Guest

    On Aug 3, 11:33 pm, "mianileng" <> wrote:
    >
    > > The lenses are almost completely
    > > plastic except for the glass in them.

    >
    > ????


    In SLR or DSLR terms, the "lens" means the entire interchangable unit
    on the front of the camera, not just the glass lens elements
    themselves. (The lenses interchange so that the camera user has a much
    wider choice of focal lengths and effects available than would
    otherwise be the case; Usenet trolls notwithstanding.)

    Used to be that SLR lenses were made almost entirely of metal and
    glass. These days, much of that metal has been superseded by high-
    grade engineering plastics, which gives *other* Usenet trolls
    something to obsess over.

    All of this has proven to be a windfall for the billygoat market.

    ~Pete
    Twibil, Aug 4, 2009
    #6
  7. Rich

    J. Clarke Guest

    Irwell wrote:
    > On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:53:48 -0700 (PDT), Rich wrote:
    >
    >> This:
    >>
    >> "The E-P1 is an exercise in pared-down styling with a distinctly
    >> retro design that will appeal to anyone nostalgic for the salad days
    >> of 35mm photography, before the preponderance of plastics and auto
    >> everything operation"
    >>
    >> The specifications of the camera in the review state metal body as
    >> well. Problem is, the body is 90% plastic with metal top and bottom
    >> plates and a metal skin around the outside. This camera is no more
    >> metal than the E-410 or E-420 was. The lenses are almost completely
    >> plastic except for the glass in them.
    >>
    >> For the record, Olympus, my 35mm 35 RC Olympus rangefinder is about
    >> the same weight as the E-P1, smaller and is nearly all metal.

    >
    > But the best optics you will ever possess are a quishy gel substance,
    > aqua vitreous or some such name.


    May be the best optics _you_ will ever possess but a lot of us need to put
    auxiliary lenses on them or have them overhauled.
    J. Clarke, Aug 4, 2009
    #7
  8. Rich

    mianileng Guest

    "Twibil" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On Aug 3, 11:33 pm, "mianileng" <>
    wrote:
    >>
    >> > The lenses are almost completely
    > >> plastic except for the glass in them.

    >>
    >> ????

    >
    > In SLR or DSLR terms, the "lens" means the entire
    > interchangable unit
    > on the front of the camera, not just the glass lens elements
    > themselves. (The lenses interchange so that the camera user has
    > a much
    > wider choice of focal lengths and effects available than would
    > otherwise be the case; Usenet trolls notwithstanding.)


    Oh, I know that much. The sentence by itself was such an apparent
    oxymoron that I couldn't resist. :)

    > Used to be that SLR lenses were made almost entirely of metal
    > and
    > glass. These days, much of that metal has been superseded by
    > high-
    > grade engineering plastics, which gives *other* Usenet trolls
    > something to obsess over.


    You'll get no argument from me on that.
    mianileng, Aug 4, 2009
    #8
  9. Rich

    Rich Guest

    On Aug 4, 4:00 am, Twibil <> wrote:
    > On Aug 3, 11:33 pm, "mianileng" <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > > The lenses are almost completely
    > > > plastic except for the glass in them.

    >
    > > ????

    >
    > In SLR or DSLR terms, the "lens" means the entire interchangable unit
    > on the front of the camera, not just the glass lens elements
    > themselves. (The lenses interchange so that the camera user has a much
    > wider choice of focal lengths and effects available than would
    > otherwise be the case; Usenet trolls notwithstanding.)
    >
    > Used to be that SLR lenses were made almost entirely of metal and
    > glass. These days, much of that metal has been superseded by high-
    > grade engineering plastics, which gives *other* Usenet trolls
    > something to obsess over.
    >
    > All of this has proven to be a windfall for the billygoat market.
    >
    > ~Pete


    I love how the plastic lovers use terms like, "high grade engineering
    plastics" instead of just polycarbonate. High grade?? They make the
    Sony's out of scrap!
    Rich, Aug 4, 2009
    #9
  10. Rich

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Rich <> wrote:
    >I love how the plastic lovers use terms like, "high grade engineering
    >plastics" instead of just polycarbonate.


    It's idiotic how the morons whine about "plastic" when they don't even
    know why.

    > High grade?? They make the
    >Sony's out of scrap!


    Just like every other camera is made with scrap, including yours.

    --
    Ray Fischer
    Ray Fischer, Aug 4, 2009
    #10
  11. Rich

    mianileng Guest

    Rich wrote:
    > On Aug 4, 4:00 am, Twibil <> wrote:
    >>
    >> Used to be that SLR lenses were made almost entirely of metal
    >> and
    >> glass. These days, much of that metal has been superseded by
    >> high-
    >> grade engineering plastics, which gives *other* Usenet trolls
    >> something to obsess over.
    >>
    >> All of this has proven to be a windfall for the billygoat
    >> market.
    >>
    >> ~Pete

    >
    > I love how the plastic lovers use terms like, "high grade
    > engineering
    > plastics" instead of just polycarbonate. High grade?? They
    > make the
    > Sony's out of scrap!


    I don't know how good those plastics are; but *if* they do the
    job well and are durable, why not? And if Sony and other
    companies reduce pollution by recycling scrap, kudos to them.

    As for the terminology, just about everyone knows that there are
    good and bad materials (and all shades in between) made from the
    same basic formula. Think vinyl, steel, glass, paint, brick, etc.
    The name "engineering plastics" is a well established engineering
    term (not marketing hype) to distinguish them from lower-grade
    "commodity plastics".
    mianileng, Aug 4, 2009
    #11
  12. Rich

    Twibil Guest

    On Aug 4, 8:48 am, Rich <> wrote:
    >
    > I love how the plastic lovers use terms like, "high grade engineering
    > plastics" instead of just polycarbonate.  High grade??  They make the
    > Sony's out of scrap!


    Ah, Richie me boy, ye might almost have had a point there if only I
    were a "plastic lover".

    Alas for you, I'm simply someone who's aware that engineering
    decisions are based on a multitude of factors, that there are seldom
    "elegant solutions" that satisfy everyone, that times change, machines
    evolve, and that there are usually multiple solutions to technical
    questions.

    I'm also someone who's aware that metals, just like plastics, are
    frequently recycled.
    Twibil, Aug 4, 2009
    #12
  13. Rich

    Irwell Guest

    On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 04:45:42 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

    > Irwell wrote:
    >> On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:53:48 -0700 (PDT), Rich wrote:
    >>
    >>> This:
    >>>
    >>> "The E-P1 is an exercise in pared-down styling with a distinctly
    >>> retro design that will appeal to anyone nostalgic for the salad days
    >>> of 35mm photography, before the preponderance of plastics and auto
    >>> everything operation"
    >>>
    >>> The specifications of the camera in the review state metal body as
    >>> well. Problem is, the body is 90% plastic with metal top and bottom
    >>> plates and a metal skin around the outside. This camera is no more
    >>> metal than the E-410 or E-420 was. The lenses are almost completely
    >>> plastic except for the glass in them.
    >>>
    >>> For the record, Olympus, my 35mm 35 RC Olympus rangefinder is about
    >>> the same weight as the E-P1, smaller and is nearly all metal.

    >>
    >> But the best optics you will ever possess are a quishy gel substance,
    >> aqua vitreous or some such name.

    >
    > May be the best optics _you_ will ever possess but a lot of us need to put
    > auxiliary lenses on them or have them overhauled.


    My 82 year old peepers are still going strong,
    try and keep healthy is the answer,
    Irwell, Aug 4, 2009
    #13
  14. Rich

    Eric Stevens Guest

    On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 08:48:39 -0700 (PDT), Rich <>
    wrote:

    >On Aug 4, 4:00 am, Twibil <> wrote:
    >> On Aug 3, 11:33 pm, "mianileng" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > > The lenses are almost completely
    >> > > plastic except for the glass in them.

    >>
    >> > ????

    >>
    >> In SLR or DSLR terms, the "lens" means the entire interchangable unit
    >> on the front of the camera, not just the glass lens elements
    >> themselves. (The lenses interchange so that the camera user has a much
    >> wider choice of focal lengths and effects available than would
    >> otherwise be the case; Usenet trolls notwithstanding.)
    >>
    >> Used to be that SLR lenses were made almost entirely of metal and
    >> glass. These days, much of that metal has been superseded by high-
    >> grade engineering plastics, which gives *other* Usenet trolls
    >> something to obsess over.
    >>
    >> All of this has proven to be a windfall for the billygoat market.
    >>
    >> ~Pete

    >
    >I love how the plastic lovers use terms like, "high grade engineering
    >plastics" instead of just polycarbonate. High grade?? They make the
    >Sony's out of scrap!


    Every car in the world is made out of scrap. Scrap steel. Scrap
    aluminium. Scrap copper. Scrap plastic. And why shouldn't they be? To
    do otherwise is wasteful.



    Eric Stevens
    Eric Stevens, Aug 4, 2009
    #14
  15. Twibil wrote:
    > On Aug 4, 8:48 am, Rich <> wrote:
    >> I love how the plastic lovers use terms like, "high grade engineering
    >> plastics" instead of just polycarbonate. High grade?? They make the
    >> Sony's out of scrap!

    >
    > Ah, Richie me boy, ye might almost have had a point there if only I
    > were a "plastic lover".
    >
    > Alas for you, I'm simply someone who's aware that engineering
    > decisions are based on a multitude of factors, that there are seldom
    > "elegant solutions" that satisfy everyone, that times change, machines
    > evolve, and that there are usually multiple solutions to technical
    > questions.
    >
    > I'm also someone who's aware that metals, just like plastics, are
    > frequently recycled.


    And thank God for that!

    On the other hand, maybe Rich would like a camera made out of freshly
    mined iron ore.......

    --
    john mcwilliams
    John McWilliams, Aug 5, 2009
    #15
  16. Rich

    Twibil Guest

    On Aug 4, 5:48 pm, John McWilliams <> wrote:
    >
    > > I'm also someone who's aware that metals, just like plastics, are
    > > frequently recycled.

    >
    > And thank God for that!
    >
    > On the other hand, maybe Rich would like a camera made out of freshly
    > mined iron ore.......


    Shrug. You get folks like him in any field. I just recently completed
    a splice/repair on a broken $6,000 violin bow, and I used a 1" length
    of .008 carbon fiber reinforced polymer tape as a laminate to back up
    the glue joint.

    It's buried down inside the tip where you can't even see it unless you
    know it's there, but when I mentioned online how I'd done the job, the
    old-school violin repairmen on the group universally came unglued (pun
    intended).

    Responses varied from "*Everyone* knows that a bow once broken will
    *never* be right again!", "You should just throw it away!", "You're
    stealing the customer's money!" to my favorite; "No one who'd use
    *PLASTIC* on a violin bow can call himself a repairman!"

    Of course the repaired bow works perfectly well, my customer is
    thrilled, and by using "plastic" I was able to salvage a valuable
    piece when the old methods would not have sufficed; but to minds that
    think "plastic" has only one meaning -and that that meaning is "new-
    fangled junk"- success is not the criteria: it's the idea itself that
    repluses them.

    ~Pete
    Twibil, Aug 5, 2009
    #16
  17. Rich

    Twibil Guest

    On Aug 4, 11:24 pm, Twibil <> wrote:
    >
    > Of course the repaired bow works perfectly well, my customer is
    > thrilled, and by using "plastic" I was able to salvage a valuable
    > piece when the old methods would not have sufficed; but to minds that
    > think "plastic" has only one meaning -and that that meaning is "new-
    > fangled junk"-  success is not the criteria: it's the idea itself that
    > repluses them.


    Er, make that "repulses them".

    Danm dyslexia...

    ~Pete
    Twibil, Aug 5, 2009
    #17
  18. Twibil wrote:
    > On Aug 4, 11:24 pm, Twibil <> wrote:
    >> Of course the repaired bow works perfectly well, my customer is
    >> thrilled, and by using "plastic" I was able to salvage a valuable
    >> piece when the old methods would not have sufficed; but to minds that
    >> think "plastic" has only one meaning -and that that meaning is "new-
    >> fangled junk"- success is not the criteria: it's the idea itself that
    >> repluses them.

    >
    > Er, make that "repulses them".
    >
    > Danm dyslexia...


    Lboody right.

    I wonder if high grade alternate materials were available back then, if
    Stradivarius would have at the least experimented with them. Also
    wondering- was he a genius or just had access to some really good stock?
    (Obviously a very talented craftsman at the least.)

    --
    John McWilliams
    John McWilliams, Aug 5, 2009
    #18
  19. Rich

    Twibil Guest

    On Aug 5, 8:53 am, John McWilliams <> wrote:
    >
    > > Danm dyslexia...

    >
    > Lboody right.
    >
    > I wonder if high grade alternate materials were available back then, if
    > Stradivarius would have at the least experimented with them.


    Probably. He went his own way and did so with great success. There is
    still a saying used in Cremona today: "As rich as Stradivari"...

    > Also wondering- was he a genius or just had access to some really good stock?


    Both of the above, although instrument builders traditionally prefer
    the term "craftsman" to over-hyped praise. (Build a better mousetrap
    and the world will come hopping to your door.)

    But the factor that most people miss is that nearly *all* of the
    really high-quality violins from that era are right up there alongside
    Strads when it comes to quality, and the reason for that is largely
    that they're now all around 300 years old, and you can't duplicate old
    age!

    It's the same reason that pre-WW2 Martin guitars command sky-high
    prices: a well-made 70 year old guitar will invariably blow away an
    identical guitar that was completed last week.

    Here's a couple of my own efforts:

    http://www.banjowizard.com/angelpics.htm

    (Note for trolls: These shots are not digital, I did not take them,
    nor am I responsible for their quality or lack thereof. Sit on it.)

    ~Pete
    Twibil, Aug 5, 2009
    #19
  20. Rich

    mianileng Guest

    "John McWilliams" <> wrote in message
    news:h5cad7$g56$-september.org...
    > Twibil wrote:
    >> On Aug 4, 11:24 pm, Twibil <> wrote:
    >>> Of course the repaired bow works perfectly well, my customer
    >>> is
    >>> thrilled, and by using "plastic" I was able to salvage a
    >>> valuable
    >>> piece when the old methods would not have sufficed; but to
    >>> minds that
    >>> think "plastic" has only one meaning -and that that meaning
    >>> is "new-
    >>> fangled junk"- success is not the criteria: it's the idea
    >>> itself that
    >>> repluses them.

    >>
    >> Er, make that "repulses them".
    >>
    >> Danm dyslexia...

    >
    > Lboody right.
    >
    > I wonder if high grade alternate materials were available back
    > then, if Stradivarius would have at the least experimented with
    > them. Also wondering- was he a genius or just had access to
    > some really good stock? (Obviously a very talented craftsman at
    > the least.)
    >

    He probably used recycled wood. :)
    mianileng, Aug 5, 2009
    #20
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