Combined SatNav-Marine-Ordnance Survey device.

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Peter Turtill, Nov 15, 2010.

  1. I want a device that will take Admiralty Marine charts, Ordnance Survey and
    Tom Tom that can also be used as a phone. Is such a device made?

    pete
    Peter Turtill, Nov 15, 2010
    #1
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  2. Peter Turtill

    Meat Plow Guest

    On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:42:38 +0000, Peter Turtill wrote:

    > I want a device that will take Admiralty Marine charts, Ordnance Survey
    > and Tom Tom that can also be used as a phone. Is such a device made?
    >
    > pete


    A netbook with a USB sat receiver and Skype.



    --
    Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
    Meat Plow, Nov 15, 2010
    #2
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  3. "Meat Plow" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:42:38 +0000, Peter Turtill wrote:
    >
    >> I want a device that will take Admiralty Marine charts, Ordnance Survey
    >> and Tom Tom that can also be used as a phone. Is such a device made?
    >>
    >> pete

    >
    > A netbook with a USB sat receiver and Skype.


    Yes that sounds good but I want to put it on the windscreen of my car or
    take it on a boat so it needs to be small rather like an IPhone.

    pete
    Peter Turtill, Nov 15, 2010
    #3
  4. Peter Turtill

    joevan Guest

    On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 20:14:35 -0000, "Peter Turtill"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"Meat Plow" <> wrote in message
    >news:p...
    >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:42:38 +0000, Peter Turtill wrote:
    >>
    >>> I want a device that will take Admiralty Marine charts, Ordnance Survey
    >>> and Tom Tom that can also be used as a phone. Is such a device made?
    >>>
    >>> pete

    >>
    >> A netbook with a USB sat receiver and Skype.

    >
    >Yes that sounds good but I want to put it on the windscreen of my car or
    >take it on a boat so it needs to be small rather like an IPhone.
    >
    >pete
    >

    I pad not small enough? How about that gadget from MS?
    joevan, Nov 15, 2010
    #4
  5. Peter Turtill

    Meat Plow Guest

    On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 20:14:35 +0000, Peter Turtill wrote:

    > "Meat Plow" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:42:38 +0000, Peter Turtill wrote:
    >>
    >>> I want a device that will take Admiralty Marine charts, Ordnance
    >>> Survey and Tom Tom that can also be used as a phone. Is such a device
    >>> made?
    >>>
    >>> pete

    >>
    >> A netbook with a USB sat receiver and Skype.

    >
    > Yes that sounds good but I want to put it on the windscreen of my car or
    > take it on a boat so it needs to be small rather like an IPhone.
    >
    > pete


    Well maybe an IPhone with a maritime map application and a suction cup
    harness of some kind. Maybe Garmin or Hummingbird. I know Hummingbird
    makes marine navigation units with GPS but no phone. i know Garmin makes
    a GPS with phone. There are many solutions to windscreen mounting. You
    might want to get on Google and do some research.



    --
    Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
    Meat Plow, Nov 15, 2010
    #5
  6. "Meat Plow" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 20:14:35 +0000, Peter Turtill wrote:
    >
    >> "Meat Plow" <> wrote in message
    >> news:p...
    >>> On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:42:38 +0000, Peter Turtill wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> I want a device that will take Admiralty Marine charts, Ordnance
    >>>> Survey and Tom Tom that can also be used as a phone. Is such a device
    >>>> made?
    >>>>
    >>>> pete
    >>>
    >>> A netbook with a USB sat receiver and Skype.

    >>
    >> Yes that sounds good but I want to put it on the windscreen of my car or
    >> take it on a boat so it needs to be small rather like an IPhone.
    >>
    >> pete

    >
    > Well maybe an IPhone with a maritime map application and a suction cup
    > harness of some kind. Maybe Garmin or Hummingbird. I know Hummingbird
    > makes marine navigation units with GPS but no phone. i know Garmin makes
    > a GPS with phone. There are many solutions to windscreen mounting. You
    > might want to get on Google and do some research.


    OK, you have susssed me out already. I don't know how an IPhone works. Can I
    buy Admiralty Charts as applications together with Ordnance Survey and Tom
    Tom and still have a PAYG blue tooth phone to use as hands free? I do not
    understand if I have to pay the SIM provider everytime I use an application.
    I have seen an Iphone with google earth on it but the chap showing me didn't
    know how he was being charged? An IPhone that does all that and I only pay
    for phone calls and texts would be ideal but I don't know if that is
    possible. I have to be particular about pedigree of the applications as I
    sometimes use the information as evidence.

    pete
    Peter Turtill, Nov 15, 2010
    #6
  7. Peter Turtill

    Meat Plow Guest

    On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 21:18:11 +0000, Peter Turtill wrote:

    > "Meat Plow" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    >> On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 20:14:35 +0000, Peter Turtill wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Meat Plow" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:p...
    >>>> On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:42:38 +0000, Peter Turtill wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> I want a device that will take Admiralty Marine charts, Ordnance
    >>>>> Survey and Tom Tom that can also be used as a phone. Is such a
    >>>>> device made?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> pete
    >>>>
    >>>> A netbook with a USB sat receiver and Skype.
    >>>
    >>> Yes that sounds good but I want to put it on the windscreen of my car
    >>> or take it on a boat so it needs to be small rather like an IPhone.
    >>>
    >>> pete

    >>
    >> Well maybe an IPhone with a maritime map application and a suction cup
    >> harness of some kind. Maybe Garmin or Hummingbird. I know Hummingbird
    >> makes marine navigation units with GPS but no phone. i know Garmin
    >> makes a GPS with phone. There are many solutions to windscreen
    >> mounting. You might want to get on Google and do some research.

    >
    > OK, you have susssed me out already. I don't know how an IPhone works.
    > Can I buy Admiralty Charts as applications together with Ordnance Survey
    > and Tom Tom and still have a PAYG blue tooth phone to use as hands free?
    > I do not understand if I have to pay the SIM provider everytime I use an
    > application. I have seen an Iphone with google earth on it but the chap
    > showing me didn't know how he was being charged? An IPhone that does all
    > that and I only pay for phone calls and texts would be ideal but I don't
    > know if that is possible. I have to be particular about pedigree of the
    > applications as I sometimes use the information as evidence.
    >


    You then might want the advice of the people in your line of work what
    they use. It's going to be tough to find a solution unless your among
    others who may already use a device that you desire.





    --
    Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
    Meat Plow, Nov 15, 2010
    #7
  8. Peter Turtill

    Jordon Guest

    Jordon, Nov 15, 2010
    #8
  9. "Meat Plow" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 21:18:11 +0000, Peter Turtill wrote:
    >
    >> "Meat Plow" <> wrote in message
    >> news:p...
    >>> On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 20:14:35 +0000, Peter Turtill wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "Meat Plow" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:p...
    >>>>> On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:42:38 +0000, Peter Turtill wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I want a device that will take Admiralty Marine charts, Ordnance
    >>>>>> Survey and Tom Tom that can also be used as a phone. Is such a
    >>>>>> device made?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> pete
    >>>>>
    >>>>> A netbook with a USB sat receiver and Skype.
    >>>>
    >>>> Yes that sounds good but I want to put it on the windscreen of my car
    >>>> or take it on a boat so it needs to be small rather like an IPhone.
    >>>>
    >>>> pete
    >>>
    >>> Well maybe an IPhone with a maritime map application and a suction cup
    >>> harness of some kind. Maybe Garmin or Hummingbird. I know Hummingbird
    >>> makes marine navigation units with GPS but no phone. i know Garmin
    >>> makes a GPS with phone. There are many solutions to windscreen
    >>> mounting. You might want to get on Google and do some research.

    >>
    >> OK, you have susssed me out already. I don't know how an IPhone works.
    >> Can I buy Admiralty Charts as applications together with Ordnance Survey
    >> and Tom Tom and still have a PAYG blue tooth phone to use as hands free?
    >> I do not understand if I have to pay the SIM provider everytime I use an
    >> application. I have seen an Iphone with google earth on it but the chap
    >> showing me didn't know how he was being charged? An IPhone that does all
    >> that and I only pay for phone calls and texts would be ideal but I don't
    >> know if that is possible. I have to be particular about pedigree of the
    >> applications as I sometimes use the information as evidence.
    >>

    >
    > You then might want the advice of the people in your line of work what
    > they use. It's going to be tough to find a solution unless your among
    > others who may already use a device that you desire.


    My stuff doesn't usually mix. Sailors use Lat Long for navigation and RoW
    activists use Ordnance Survey. I have a PDA that does OS and Tom Tom but it
    is so dated and useless I don't really want to buy anything for it. The
    I-Phone seems to be the answer providing the applications are as good as OS
    and Admiralty Charts otherwise it means buying different platforms for each
    function which must be a rip off.

    pete
    Peter Turtill, Nov 16, 2010
    #9
  10. Peter Turtill

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2010-11-15, Peter Turtill <> wrote:
    > I want a device that will take Admiralty Marine charts, Ordnance Survey and
    > Tom Tom that can also be used as a phone. Is such a device made?
    >
    > pete


    The navigation software in GPS receivers and smartphones doesn't use
    either Admiralty charts or OS maps (or at least, if they do they're in a
    significantly altered form that makes them into 'something else').

    I think you want to be able to use your data as 'evidence' in various
    matters relating to public access in particular places. For such purposes
    I think you'd do best with conventional printed maps and charts and basic
    'technical drawing' equipment (ruler, dividers, pencil, drawing-compass,
    etc). By all means, use GPS to help you to locate and mark 'things' on
    your maps - but don't forget other methods too, such as measuring tape and
    compass-bearings

    The gadgets and smartphone software designed to assist navigation by road,
    are not the right sort of tool to use for precise position-fixing; for
    example, they are likely to adjust whatever position information they
    calculate using the GPS satellites so as to display your location on or
    close to 'a road' or 'a path' as known to the mapping data in use. If
    you're trying to locate a thoroughfare that isn't known to the mapping
    data, or isn't mapped to where you believe it should be, I think you'll
    soon run into difficulties.

    There are GPS receivers intended for 'off-road' use, or for 'marine' use,
    which will log your position in terms of latitude and longitude, or
    National Grid or whatever, and can store 'tracks' and 'waypoints' in those
    terms too. Ideally you want to have some idea of the 'margin for error'
    in the GPS 'fix' as well - a single stand-alone receiver can be 'off' by
    surprisingly large distances sometimes. That's why 'real' map-makers and
    surveyors make use of identifiable landmarks and arrays of 'static' GPS
    receivers to locate positions relative to those 'datum points'.

    There are apps for smartphones that can emulate at least some of the
    functions of an 'off-road' GPS receiver. But they may not be as accurate
    and reliable as purpose-built devices, nor as good at detecting
    satellites.

    Some of the navigation apps for smartphones make use of maps which you can
    'download' onto the device; others, notably Google Maps, require
    continuous internet access - which will usually mean 'mobile internet' of
    course - to access mapping data for the current location. This can be
    both expensive and unreliable.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
    Whiskers, Nov 16, 2010
    #10
  11. Peter Turtill

    G. Morgan Guest

    "Peter Turtill" <> wrote:

    >I want a device that will take Admiralty Marine charts, Ordnance Survey and
    >Tom Tom that can also be used as a phone. Is such a device made?



    There's an app for that.
    G. Morgan, Nov 16, 2010
    #11
  12. "Whiskers" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 2010-11-15, Peter Turtill <> wrote:
    >> I want a device that will take Admiralty Marine charts, Ordnance Survey
    >> and
    >> Tom Tom that can also be used as a phone. Is such a device made?
    >>
    >> pete

    >
    > The navigation software in GPS receivers and smartphones doesn't use
    > either Admiralty charts or OS maps (or at least, if they do they're in a
    > significantly altered form that makes them into 'something else').
    >
    > I think you want to be able to use your data as 'evidence' in various
    > matters relating to public access in particular places. For such purposes
    > I think you'd do best with conventional printed maps and charts and basic
    > 'technical drawing' equipment (ruler, dividers, pencil, drawing-compass,
    > etc). By all means, use GPS to help you to locate and mark 'things' on
    > your maps - but don't forget other methods too, such as measuring tape and
    > compass-bearings
    >
    > The gadgets and smartphone software designed to assist navigation by road,
    > are not the right sort of tool to use for precise position-fixing; for
    > example, they are likely to adjust whatever position information they
    > calculate using the GPS satellites so as to display your location on or
    > close to 'a road' or 'a path' as known to the mapping data in use. If
    > you're trying to locate a thoroughfare that isn't known to the mapping
    > data, or isn't mapped to where you believe it should be, I think you'll
    > soon run into difficulties.
    >
    > There are GPS receivers intended for 'off-road' use, or for 'marine' use,
    > which will log your position in terms of latitude and longitude, or
    > National Grid or whatever, and can store 'tracks' and 'waypoints' in those
    > terms too. Ideally you want to have some idea of the 'margin for error'
    > in the GPS 'fix' as well - a single stand-alone receiver can be 'off' by
    > surprisingly large distances sometimes. That's why 'real' map-makers and
    > surveyors make use of identifiable landmarks and arrays of 'static' GPS
    > receivers to locate positions relative to those 'datum points'.
    >
    > There are apps for smartphones that can emulate at least some of the
    > functions of an 'off-road' GPS receiver. But they may not be as accurate
    > and reliable as purpose-built devices, nor as good at detecting
    > satellites.
    >
    > Some of the navigation apps for smartphones make use of maps which you can
    > 'download' onto the device; others, notably Google Maps, require
    > continuous internet access - which will usually mean 'mobile internet' of
    > course - to access mapping data for the current location. This can be
    > both expensive and unreliable.


    Thank you Whiskers for your customary very intelligent and understandable
    answer. I have a PDA with OS for my patch on it which I can use to track a
    route if I travel very slowly. I can then transfer that to my computer and
    print it as an OS map. It is good but the battery in my Mio P550 only last
    an hour or so and the OS stuff I bought off Memory Map is bliidy expensive.
    It also works with a Tom Tom memory card but now it often freezes and of
    course it is out of date by years now.

    The marine stuff I need when I am sailing. During the summer I take disabled
    people sailing in an open keel boat. I plot my course using an Imry chart
    and a Breton Plotter and I take bearings with a hand held compass while
    sailing. I never go out in poor visibility so really I have everything I
    need to be safe and keep my crew safe. However, lately I have seen a few
    Skippers using I-Phones usually with a Navionics application but that
    doesn't show anywhere near enough detail so I was wondering if there was
    anything better around yet? Otherwise I have to buy a new Tom Tom and a more
    robust PDA and continue plotting a course before sailing. I would just add
    Navionics looks good but it would be extremely dangerous to rely on. Maybe
    Garmin have something. I have access to a Garmin SatNav on a RIB and that is
    extremely good but of course it is not handheld. It maybe a few more years
    as yet to get this I suppose. Thanks Whiskers, I now know a little more
    about an I-Phone and I don't think that is for me if I have to pay mobile
    rates to download google earth.

    pete
    Peter Turtill, Nov 16, 2010
    #12
  13. Peter Turtill

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2010-11-16, Peter Turtill <> wrote:
    > "Whiskers" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On 2010-11-15, Peter Turtill <> wrote:


    [...]

    > Thank you Whiskers for your customary very intelligent and understandable
    > answer. I have a PDA with OS for my patch on it which I can use to track a
    > route if I travel very slowly. I can then transfer that to my computer and
    > print it as an OS map. It is good but the battery in my Mio P550 only last
    > an hour or so and the OS stuff I bought off Memory Map is bliidy expensive.
    > It also works with a Tom Tom memory card but now it often freezes and of
    > course it is out of date by years now.


    You sound like the sort of person who'd be useful to the Open Street Map
    project. Modern smartphones and dedicated GPS receivers can store a track
    as quickly as you can drive it in a car; the device that stores the track
    doesn't need to have any maps installed on it; the data for the track can
    be used with mapping files on a larger computer when convenient..

    > The marine stuff I need when I am sailing. During the summer I take disabled
    > people sailing in an open keel boat. I plot my course using an Imry chart
    > and a Breton Plotter and I take bearings with a hand held compass while
    > sailing. I never go out in poor visibility so really I have everything I
    > need to be safe and keep my crew safe. However, lately I have seen a few
    > Skippers using I-Phones usually with a Navionics application but that
    > doesn't show anywhere near enough detail so I was wondering if there was
    > anything better around yet?


    [...]

    I don't know anything about the Navionics charts and software; it sounds
    somewhat similar to the user-generated approach taken by Open Street Maps
    on land - but with a commercial basis.

    I certainly wouldn't want to rely on a smartphone for marine navigation.
    They're far too fragile, and have a very short battery life.

    The sort of GPS receiver intended for in-car use is unlikely to be
    suitable for use at sea.

    I suggest a good chandler, or local inshore fishermen, for advice about
    current sea-worthy navigation kit suitable for your trips.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
    Whiskers, Nov 17, 2010
    #13
  14. Peter Turtill

    G. Morgan Guest

    Whiskers <> wrote:

    > it sounds
    >somewhat similar to the user-generated approach taken by Open Street Maps
    >on land - but with a commercial basis.



    I just looked at Open Street Maps and am not impressed. There are flat-out
    errors I spotted very quickly looking at an area I know well. I would not trust
    Open Street Maps to plan any real trip.
    G. Morgan, Nov 18, 2010
    #14
  15. Peter Turtill

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2010-11-18, G Morgan <> wrote:
    > Whiskers <> wrote:
    >
    >> it sounds
    >>somewhat similar to the user-generated approach taken by Open Street Maps
    >>on land - but with a commercial basis.

    >
    >
    > I just looked at Open Street Maps and am not impressed. There are
    > flat-out errors I spotted very quickly looking at an area I know well. I
    > would not trust Open Street Maps to plan any real trip.


    All maps contain errors. The unique aspect of OSM is that users can
    correct the errors and fill in missing information.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
    Whiskers, Nov 18, 2010
    #15
  16. "Whiskers" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 2010-11-18, G Morgan <> wrote:
    >> Whiskers <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> it sounds
    >>>somewhat similar to the user-generated approach taken by Open Street Maps
    >>>on land - but with a commercial basis.

    >>
    >>
    >> I just looked at Open Street Maps and am not impressed. There are
    >> flat-out errors I spotted very quickly looking at an area I know well. I
    >> would not trust Open Street Maps to plan any real trip.

    >
    > All maps contain errors. The unique aspect of OSM is that users can
    > correct the errors and fill in missing information.


    I had considered using OSM to map RoW where I live but there is no facility
    for designating Footpath, Bridleways, Restricted Byways and Byways Open to
    All Traffic.

    pete
    Peter Turtill, Nov 18, 2010
    #16
  17. Peter Turtill

    Whiskers Guest

    On 2010-11-18, Peter Turtill <> wrote:
    > "Whiskers" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On 2010-11-18, G Morgan <> wrote:
    >>> Whiskers <> wrote:


    [...]

    >>> I just looked at Open Street Maps and am not impressed. There are
    >>> flat-out errors I spotted very quickly looking at an area I know well. I
    >>> would not trust Open Street Maps to plan any real trip.

    >>
    >> All maps contain errors. The unique aspect of OSM is that users can
    >> correct the errors and fill in missing information.

    >
    > I had considered using OSM to map RoW where I live but there is no facility
    > for designating Footpath, Bridleways, Restricted Byways and Byways Open to
    > All Traffic.


    You didn't look hard enough ;))

    <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features>

    OpenStreetMap does not have any content restrictions on tags that can
    be assigned to OSM-Elements (Nodes, Ways or Relations). You can use any
    tags you like as long as the values are verifiable. However, there is a
    benefit in agreeing to a recommended set of features and corresponding
    tags in order to create, interpret and display a common basemap. This
    page contains a core recommended feature set and corresponding tags.

    And there's even more here
    <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_public_rights_of_way>.

    --
    -- ^^^^^^^^^^
    -- Whiskers
    -- ~~~~~~~~~~
    Whiskers, Nov 18, 2010
    #17
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