Combined digital and 35mm SLR camera?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by aniram, Feb 3, 2004.

  1. aniram

    aniram Guest

    There are advanced digital cameras in the market today that looks like
    SLR cameras. However, I assume that they can only take digital data.
    1. Is there a digital camera that can produce BOTH digital data, as
    well as storing the image in a film ?
    If I pay expensive and advanced camera, I may as well like to have the
    option whether to store the image in digital form , in film or BOTH.
    Is such a camera exist today?
    2. Going back to the digital SLR, what is the function of the SLR, if
    the image will not be recorded in film behind the prism? I understand
    that in SLR camera, the prism flips up when the photo is taken and the
    image is then captured by the film behind the prism (at the back of
    the camera). Does this happen on digital SLR?
     
    aniram, Feb 3, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. "aniram" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > There are advanced digital cameras in the market today that looks like
    > SLR cameras. However, I assume that they can only take digital data.
    > 1. Is there a digital camera that can produce BOTH digital data, as
    > well as storing the image in a film ?
    > If I pay expensive and advanced camera, I may as well like to have the
    > option whether to store the image in digital form , in film or BOTH.
    > Is such a camera exist today?


    No. You can wiht many medium format cameras though.


    > 2. Going back to the digital SLR, what is the function of the SLR, if
    > the image will not be recorded in film behind the prism? I understand
    > that in SLR camera, the prism flips up when the photo is taken and the
    > image is then captured by the film behind the prism (at the back of
    > the camera). Does this happen on digital SLR?


    Yes.
     
    Darren Sawyer, Feb 3, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "Darren Sawyer" <> wrote in message
    news:bvobue$okt$...
    > "aniram" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > No. You can wiht many medium format cameras though.
    >


    Sorry, you can't do both at the same time!!! Either film or digital with MF
    camera and backs.


    >
    > > 2. Going back to the digital SLR, what is the function of the SLR, if
    > > the image will not be recorded in film behind the prism? I understand
    > > that in SLR camera, the prism flips up when the photo is taken and the
    > > image is then captured by the film behind the prism (at the back of
    > > the camera). Does this happen on digital SLR?

    >
    > Yes.
    >
    >
     
    Darren Sawyer, Feb 3, 2004
    #3
  4. "aniram" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > There are advanced digital cameras in the market today that looks like
    > SLR cameras. However, I assume that they can only take digital data.
    > 1. Is there a digital camera that can produce BOTH digital data, as
    > well as storing the image in a film ?


    These are called hybrid cameras.

    http://www.vivitar.com/Products/hybrid/special.html

    There is one that exists, the Digi 35mm, but it's a very low end camera.
    Forget it.

    The other option is from http://siliconfilm.com/ , but none of these
    products actually exist, so it really is not an option!
     
    Steven M. Scharf, Feb 3, 2004
    #4
  5. Just purchase a digital body, and a film body (much less expensive) that
    takes the same lenses. Switch between them as appropriate. It's the most
    convenient way.

    -Z

    aniram wrote:
    > There are advanced digital cameras in the market today that looks like
    > SLR cameras. However, I assume that they can only take digital data.
    > 1. Is there a digital camera that can produce BOTH digital data, as
    > well as storing the image in a film ?
    > If I pay expensive and advanced camera, I may as well like to have the
    > option whether to store the image in digital form , in film or BOTH.
    > Is such a camera exist today?
    > 2. Going back to the digital SLR, what is the function of the SLR, if
    > the image will not be recorded in film behind the prism? I understand
    > that in SLR camera, the prism flips up when the photo is taken and the
    > image is then captured by the film behind the prism (at the back of
    > the camera). Does this happen on digital SLR?
     
    Zorin the Lynx, Feb 3, 2004
    #5
  6. aniram

    Chris Brown Guest

    In article <>,
    aniram <> wrote:

    >2. Going back to the digital SLR, what is the function of the SLR, if
    >the image will not be recorded in film behind the prism? I understand
    >that in SLR camera, the prism flips up when the photo is taken and the
    >image is then captured by the film behind the prism (at the back of
    >the camera). Does this happen on digital SLR?


    Yes. They're exactly the same, other than the film being replaced with an
    electronic image sensor. The mirror, shutter, etc. is all still there.

    BTW, the prism is in front of the viewfinder, not the film...
     
    Chris Brown, Feb 3, 2004
    #6
  7. > 1. Is there a digital camera that can produce BOTH digital data, as
    > well as storing the image in a film ?


    Sure, no problem -- use a 35mm camera and scan the negatives.
    My local minilab will scan them at time of processing for $10/roll.
     
    Andrew Koenig, Feb 3, 2004
    #7
  8. aniram

    Gordon Moat Guest

    aniram wrote:

    > There are advanced digital cameras in the market today that looks like
    > SLR cameras. However, I assume that they can only take digital data.
    > 1. Is there a digital camera that can produce BOTH digital data, as
    > well as storing the image in a film ?


    Doing one or the other is possible with a few expensive choices. Take a
    look at the upcoming Digital R module from Leica:

    <http://www.leica-camera.com/produkte/rsystem/digitalmodul/index_e.html>

    The other options are the Horseman DigiFlex system and the newer Sinar M
    system, though both were originally designed to take medium format
    digital backs. Since the mount is Hasselblad compatible, these can also
    take newer Hasselblad film backs.

    >
    > If I pay expensive and advanced camera, I may as well like to have the
    > option whether to store the image in digital form , in film or BOTH.
    > Is such a camera exist today?


    To do both without changing a back, or as simultaneous images, has not
    been available in an expensive system. Kodak produced a few variations of
    a P&S camera called a Preview camera. This had an LCD on the back, and
    loaded film. They are very cheap, and very limited in use.

    To functionally achieve a similar effect, you could get one of the new
    Kodak Plus Digital one-time-use cameras. These have film in them, and
    when you go for processing you get a CD-R of images with your negatives
    and prints. These are currently around $10 in the US. Probably the
    cheapest of all options.

    >
    > 2. Going back to the digital SLR, what is the function of the SLR, if
    > the image will not be recorded in film behind the prism? I understand
    > that in SLR camera, the prism flips up when the photo is taken and the
    > image is then captured by the film behind the prism (at the back of
    > the camera). Does this happen on digital SLR?


    Sure, and the advantage is direct viewing of the scene in front of you
    through the lens you want to use. If you compare this to a P&S digital,
    many of those have a full time live image hitting the chip. While the P&S
    allows continuous scene viewing on the LCD (like a video camcorder), the
    disadvantage is that you could burn out the chip sooner. On the direct
    digital SLR, the mirror and shutter cover the chip until the image is
    captured.

    Of course, it does not have to be that way. There have been a few film
    cameras that had pellicule mirrors that did not need to move out of the
    way when pressing the shutter button. These allowed continuous viewing
    through the viewfinder, and allowed the film to be exposed when the
    shutter opened. It would be easy to do the same on a direct digital SLR.

    Ciao!

    Gordon Moat
    Alliance Graphique Studio
    <http://www.allgstudio.com>
     
    Gordon Moat, Feb 3, 2004
    #8
  9. aniram

    Chris Guest

    "aniram" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > There are advanced digital cameras in the market today that looks like
    > SLR cameras. However, I assume that they can only take digital data.
    > 1. Is there a digital camera that can produce BOTH digital data, as
    > well as storing the image in a film ?


    Hybrid camera technology is still more or less in it's infancy, so while you
    may want a toy to mess around with, it's alot easier and more practical to
    do as someone else here suggested...get an SLR body for digital, and another
    for film, and share lenses. There's really no need for you to have both at
    the same time.

    > If I pay expensive and advanced camera, I may as well like to have the
    > option whether to store the image in digital form , in film or BOTH.
    > Is such a camera exist today?


    Yes, but as above, the technology isn't "great" yet, so you're better off
    using 2 types of SLR bodies. It's not really all that much trouble. Many
    professional photographers carry atleast one backup body anyway. You get
    the same benefit, plus more reliable and proven technology, just not in the
    same camera.

    > 2. Going back to the digital SLR, what is the function of the SLR, if
    > the image will not be recorded in film behind the prism?


    The SLR is the same, the function is the same. The only difference is that
    while one system records the image on film, the other records the image on
    digital media by means of an electronic sensor.

    >I understand
    > that in SLR camera, the prism flips up when the photo is taken and the
    > image is then captured by the film behind the prism (at the back of
    > the camera). Does this happen on digital SLR?


    Actually, the prism doesn't flip at all, the mirror does. The mirror aligns
    itself with the prism to give you an image in the viewfinder, when you take
    the picture, the mirror flips up, or in some cases is semi-transparent and
    doesn't move.

    The SLR mechanism functions the same for both systems, digital or film.

    The primary advantage of digital SLR is you get better images, and you have
    the option of many types of lenses to choose from. If you take pictures in
    many types of enviroments/places, then an SLR might be good for you, whether
    digital or film. It's not really a camera for casual photography.

    Let me compare an SLR camera with a normal "point and shoot" camera for you.

    The point and shoot camera you often see in camera and tourist shops for
    very little money. Everything is usually very simple to use, but you don't
    have other lenses you can use, and the flash is almost always built into the
    camera.

    With an SLR, you pay more for it, but you have the ability to use more
    functions, and many of the entry-level SLR cameras are designed to work
    similar to point and shoot, so if you want someone to take a quick photo of
    you and your friend on vacation, it doesn't take much time to show them how.
    The SLR generally produces better quality photographs, has a wider range of
    film, lens, flash, filter, and photography options, and tends to last alot
    longer than the average point and shoot camera will.

    Hope some or all of this helps you. :)
     
    Chris, Feb 3, 2004
    #9
  10. aniram

    George Guest

    "Darren Sawyer" <> wrote in message
    news:bvobue$okt$...
    > "aniram" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > There are advanced digital cameras in the market today that looks like
    > > SLR cameras. However, I assume that they can only take digital data.
    > > 1. Is there a digital camera that can produce BOTH digital data, as
    > > well as storing the image in a film ?
    > > If I pay expensive and advanced camera, I may as well like to have the
    > > option whether to store the image in digital form , in film or BOTH.
    > > Is such a camera exist today?

    >
    > No. You can wiht many medium format cameras though.
    >
    >

    Leica has announced something that will do what you want (if and when it is
    available)...it is a digital back for their SLR. I'd actually prefer it if
    some other manufacturers took that route as well. Right now, digital camera
    advancements are fast and furious and the cameras become obsolete fast
    enough that it'd be nice to only replace the "digital" part and keep the
    same mechanics, metering, etc and that might as well include film
    capability. Nikons used to be so modular...what happened now that it would
    be super useful???
     
    George, Feb 3, 2004
    #10
  11. aniram

    Mark B. Guest

    "aniram" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > There are advanced digital cameras in the market today that looks like
    > SLR cameras. However, I assume that they can only take digital data.
    > 1. Is there a digital camera that can produce BOTH digital data, as
    > well as storing the image in a film ?
    > If I pay expensive and advanced camera, I may as well like to have the
    > option whether to store the image in digital form , in film or BOTH.
    > Is such a camera exist today?
    > 2. Going back to the digital SLR, what is the function of the SLR, if
    > the image will not be recorded in film behind the prism? I understand
    > that in SLR camera, the prism flips up when the photo is taken and the
    > image is then captured by the film behind the prism (at the back of
    > the camera). Does this happen on digital SLR?


    Marina? Does that mean you're fishing?
     
    Mark B., Feb 4, 2004
    #11
  12. aniram

    aniram Guest

    Yes.. this is the only way one can have both images (in film and
    digital).
    Or, you can always scan the photo prints. If that is the case, it is
    still better to have a regular film camera. You can get the negatives,
    prints and scan the image to convert into digital files. It does not
    work the other way around... ie. you get the digital files from a
    digital camera, and how do you produce a film from them ?

    "Andrew Koenig" <> wrote in message news:<wZRTb.168734$>...
    > > 1. Is there a digital camera that can produce BOTH digital data, as
    > > well as storing the image in a film ?

    >
    > Sure, no problem -- use a 35mm camera and scan the negatives.
    > My local minilab will scan them at time of processing for $10/roll.
     
    aniram, Feb 4, 2004
    #12
  13. aniram

    aniram Guest

    Thanks for info

    There is another high end digital camera that has lots of functions,
    including hotshoe for additional flash. I saw it advertised for
    Olympus lines (C-740 or C750). It has up to 10X optical zoom, but I
    don't think it is an SLR digital. I wonder how this performs in
    comparison to a digital SLR.
    Could you actually change lenses in a digital SLR ?, or is the lens
    fixed?

    "Chris" <> wrote in message news:<zbUTb.15108$>...
    > "aniram" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > There are advanced digital cameras in the market today that looks like
    > > SLR cameras. However, I assume that they can only take digital data.
    > > 1. Is there a digital camera that can produce BOTH digital data, as
    > > well as storing the image in a film ?

    >
    > Hybrid camera technology is still more or less in it's infancy, so while you
    > may want a toy to mess around with, it's alot easier and more practical to
    > do as someone else here suggested...get an SLR body for digital, and another
    > for film, and share lenses. There's really no need for you to have both at
    > the same time.
    >
    > > If I pay expensive and advanced camera, I may as well like to have the
    > > option whether to store the image in digital form , in film or BOTH.
    > > Is such a camera exist today?

    >
    > Yes, but as above, the technology isn't "great" yet, so you're better off
    > using 2 types of SLR bodies. It's not really all that much trouble. Many
    > professional photographers carry atleast one backup body anyway. You get
    > the same benefit, plus more reliable and proven technology, just not in the
    > same camera.
    >
    > > 2. Going back to the digital SLR, what is the function of the SLR, if
    > > the image will not be recorded in film behind the prism?

    >
    > The SLR is the same, the function is the same. The only difference is that
    > while one system records the image on film, the other records the image on
    > digital media by means of an electronic sensor.
    >
    > >I understand
    > > that in SLR camera, the prism flips up when the photo is taken and the
    > > image is then captured by the film behind the prism (at the back of
    > > the camera). Does this happen on digital SLR?

    >
    > Actually, the prism doesn't flip at all, the mirror does. The mirror aligns
    > itself with the prism to give you an image in the viewfinder, when you take
    > the picture, the mirror flips up, or in some cases is semi-transparent and
    > doesn't move.
    >
    > The SLR mechanism functions the same for both systems, digital or film.
    >
    > The primary advantage of digital SLR is you get better images, and you have
    > the option of many types of lenses to choose from. If you take pictures in
    > many types of enviroments/places, then an SLR might be good for you, whether
    > digital or film. It's not really a camera for casual photography.
    >
    > Let me compare an SLR camera with a normal "point and shoot" camera for you.
    >
    > The point and shoot camera you often see in camera and tourist shops for
    > very little money. Everything is usually very simple to use, but you don't
    > have other lenses you can use, and the flash is almost always built into the
    > camera.
    >
    > With an SLR, you pay more for it, but you have the ability to use more
    > functions, and many of the entry-level SLR cameras are designed to work
    > similar to point and shoot, so if you want someone to take a quick photo of
    > you and your friend on vacation, it doesn't take much time to show them how.
    > The SLR generally produces better quality photographs, has a wider range of
    > film, lens, flash, filter, and photography options, and tends to last alot
    > longer than the average point and shoot camera will.
    >
    > Hope some or all of this helps you. :)
     
    aniram, Feb 4, 2004
    #13
  14. aniram

    Chris Guest

    "aniram" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks for info
    >
    > There is another high end digital camera that has lots of functions,
    > including hotshoe for additional flash. I saw it advertised for
    > Olympus lines (C-740 or C750). It has up to 10X optical zoom, but I
    > don't think it is an SLR digital. I wonder how this performs in
    > comparison to a digital SLR.
    > Could you actually change lenses in a digital SLR ?, or is the lens
    > fixed?


    10x optical zoom is pretty good, even if it isn't an SLR. However the trick
    is the digital zoom, which can be confusing. The digital zoom can increase
    an optical zoom even further. That's why a digital camera with the right
    kinds of zoom options can greatly aid your photography, even if it's a
    smaller size.

    A digital SLR is the same as a 35mm SLR. Yes, you can change the lenses,
    and in most cases the flash as well.

    If the camera you speak of isn't an SLR, then there's no comparison. You
    see, it doesn't matter how powerful a lens is. If you cannot switch the
    lens out, I consider it a limitation. Especially on your money. Suppose
    you smash that lovely powerful lens. What then? With an SLR, you can
    replace the lens only without need to pay to repair a camera. ;-)
     
    Chris, Feb 4, 2004
    #14
  15. aniram

    Alan Kerr Guest

    digital zoom just uses a small part opf the optical range and crops it
    the enlarges it. Optical zoom is what is important

    Alan

    Chris wrote:
    > "aniram" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>Thanks for info
    >>
    >>There is another high end digital camera that has lots of functions,
    >>including hotshoe for additional flash. I saw it advertised for
    >>Olympus lines (C-740 or C750). It has up to 10X optical zoom, but I
    >>don't think it is an SLR digital. I wonder how this performs in
    >>comparison to a digital SLR.
    >>Could you actually change lenses in a digital SLR ?, or is the lens
    >>fixed?

    >
    >
    > 10x optical zoom is pretty good, even if it isn't an SLR. However the trick
    > is the digital zoom, which can be confusing. The digital zoom can increase
    > an optical zoom even further. That's why a digital camera with the right
    > kinds of zoom options can greatly aid your photography, even if it's a
    > smaller size.
    >
    > A digital SLR is the same as a 35mm SLR. Yes, you can change the lenses,
    > and in most cases the flash as well.
    >
    > If the camera you speak of isn't an SLR, then there's no comparison. You
    > see, it doesn't matter how powerful a lens is. If you cannot switch the
    > lens out, I consider it a limitation. Especially on your money. Suppose
    > you smash that lovely powerful lens. What then? With an SLR, you can
    > replace the lens only without need to pay to repair a camera. ;-)
    >
    >
     
    Alan Kerr, Feb 4, 2004
    #15
  16. aniram

    The Wogster Guest

    aniram wrote:
    > There are advanced digital cameras in the market today that looks like
    > SLR cameras. However, I assume that they can only take digital data.
    > 1. Is there a digital camera that can produce BOTH digital data, as
    > well as storing the image in a film ?
    > If I pay expensive and advanced camera, I may as well like to have the
    > option whether to store the image in digital form , in film or BOTH.
    > Is such a camera exist today?
    > 2. Going back to the digital SLR, what is the function of the SLR, if
    > the image will not be recorded in film behind the prism? I understand
    > that in SLR camera, the prism flips up when the photo is taken and the
    > image is then captured by the film behind the prism (at the back of
    > the camera). Does this happen on digital SLR?


    1) You can, Hasselblad and Mamiya both make SLRs that accomodate film
    and digital, however the camera and several lenses might cost the price
    of a good car, and the digital back for a Hassy costs well over $10,000

    2) Same as film, the sensor replaces the film, it then effectively works
    the same way. The prism actually sits above the lens, it's the reason
    for the distinctive bump on top of a SLR, the mirror sits in the light
    path. In SLRs the mirror flips up, the shutter opens and the film is
    exposed. Shutter closes, mirror drops down, and viewing is restored.
    In digital the mirror flips up, the shutter opens and the sensor is
    exposed. Shutter closes, mirror drops.

    Revisiting your question though, is there a camera that when you press
    the shutter button, gives you both a film and digital image, and the
    answer is no. There are two solutions though, one is to use two camera
    bodies, one film and one digital. Second, and more practical right now,
    is to shoot on film, then use a film scanner to get the digital copy.
     
    The Wogster, Feb 4, 2004
    #16
  17. aniram

    Alan Browne Guest

    Chris wrote:


    >
    >
    > 10x optical zoom is pretty good, even if it isn't an SLR. However the trick
    > is the digital zoom, which can be confusing. The digital zoom can increase
    > an optical zoom even further. That's why a digital camera with the right
    > kinds of zoom options can greatly aid your photography, even if it's a
    > smaller size.


    Any optical zoom over ~2.5X is compromised. 10X is going way too far.
    (The 'purists' about will say any zoom is compromised).

    Digital zoom simply 'crops' the image further reducing detail.

    The best "aid" to photography is simplicity, not overreaching
    underperforming specs meant to impress the ill-informed.
     
    Alan Browne, Feb 4, 2004
    #17
  18. Andrew Koenig wrote:
    >>1. Is there a digital camera that can produce BOTH digital data, as
    >>well as storing the image in a film ?

    >
    > Sure, no problem -- use a 35mm camera and scan the negatives.
    > My local minilab will scan them at time of processing for $10/roll.


    Off-topic...

    Are you the same Andrew Koenig I know from some other newsgroup?
    (I guess it was no joke that the photograph on the cover of
    Accelerated C++ was taken by yourself? :))

    Carlos
    --
     
    Carlos Moreno, Feb 4, 2004
    #18
  19. "George" <> wrote in message news:<>...
    <snip>
    >Right now, digital camera advancements are fast and furious and the

    cameras >become obsolete fast enough that it'd be nice to only replace
    the "digital" >part and keep the same mechanics, metering, etc and
    that might as well >include film capability. Nikons used to be so
    modular...what happened now >that it would be super useful???

    I would love to see the development of a exchangable back for Nikon
    (or others) so you could do both. I would think many would jump on
    it.
     
    William J. Slater, Feb 7, 2004
    #19
  20. aniram

    Alan Browne Guest

    George wrote:


    >
    > Leica has announced something that will do what you want (if and when it is
    > available)...it is a digital back for their SLR. I'd actually prefer it if
    > some other manufacturers took that route as well. Right now, digital camera
    > advancements are fast and furious and the cameras become obsolete fast
    > enough that it'd be nice to only replace the "digital" part and keep the
    > same mechanics, metering, etc and that might as well include film
    > capability. Nikons used to be so modular...what happened now that it would
    > be super useful???


    This subject has been beaten quite a bit here. google away for various
    points of view, most saying that economics don't support it.

    The "Nikon F6" rumor states the camera will be exactly that. But it is
    only a rumor at this point. PMA ( http://pma2004.pmai.org/ ) is a few
    days away and all the excitement should occur then.

    Cheers,
    Alan

    --
    e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.
     
    Alan Browne, Feb 7, 2004
    #20
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