college

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by johz, Sep 23, 2004.

  1. johz

    johz Guest

    i just finished a course in college where practically all we did was
    play around with digital cameras.
    johz, Sep 23, 2004
    #1
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  2. johz

    Des Perado Guest

    "johz" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > i just finished a course in college where practically all we did was
    > play around with digital cameras.


    Of course you did.
    Des Perado, Sep 23, 2004
    #2
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  3. johz

    Tony Morgan Guest

    In message <>, johz
    <> writes
    >i just finished a course in college where practically all we did was
    >play around with digital cameras.


    Perhaps you should have considered which college you attended more
    carefully.

    Though I must admit that many (most?) college courses are conducted by
    lecturers who have absolutely no practical working experience in the
    field in which they teach.

    Indeed, most teachers and lecturers at all academic levels have never
    left school. Their "career path" is: primary school --> secondary school
    --> college or university --> teaching.

    How on earth any student can expect education/training for anything
    (other than teaching) beats me :)

    As the saying goes "There's those that can, do, and those that can't,
    teach".
    --
    Tony Morgan
    http://www.camcord.info
    Tony Morgan, Sep 23, 2004
    #3
  4. johz

    Charlie Self Guest

    Tony Morgan writes:

    >Indeed, most teachers and lecturers at all academic levels have never
    >left school. Their "career path" is: primary school --> secondary school
    >--> college or university --> teaching.
    >
    >How on earth any student can expect education/training for anything
    >(other than teaching) beats me :)
    >
    >As the saying goes "There's those that can, do, and those that can't,
    >teach".


    And those who can't even get cliches correct post on the Internet.

    Charlie Self
    "Half of the American people have never read a newspaper. Half never voted for
    President. One hopes it is the same half." Gore Vidal
    Charlie Self, Sep 23, 2004
    #4
  5. johz

    Des Perado Guest

    "Tony Morgan" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...

    > As the saying goes "There's those that can, do, and those that can't,
    > teach".


    .... and those that can't teach, teach geography. Or so I heard.
    Des Perado, Sep 23, 2004
    #5
  6. johz

    Tony Morgan Guest

    In message <>, Des Perado <>
    writes
    >
    >"Tony Morgan" <> wrote in message
    >news:eek:...
    >
    >> As the saying goes "There's those that can, do, and those that can't,
    >> teach".

    >
    >... and those that can't teach, teach geography.


    Or Sociology.... but please - don't let me go down that road :)

    --
    Tony Morgan
    Tony Morgan, Sep 23, 2004
    #6
  7. johz

    Charlie Self Guest

    Tony Morgan responds:

    >In message <>, Des Perado <>
    >writes
    >>
    >>"Tony Morgan" <> wrote in message
    >>news:eek:...
    >>
    >>> As the saying goes "There's those that can, do, and those that can't,
    >>> teach".

    >>
    >>... and those that can't teach, teach geography.

    >
    >Or Sociology.... but please - don't let me go down that road :)
    >


    You mean you don't like the science of making the obvious obscure?

    Charlie Self
    "Half of the American people have never read a newspaper. Half never voted for
    President. One hopes it is the same half." Gore Vidal
    Charlie Self, Sep 23, 2004
    #7
  8. johz

    Paul W. Ross Guest

    I taught Computer Science for 20 years AFTER 7 years in industrial
    research (Sarnoff Labs), and 6 years of running a college computer
    center. Sorry, I don't buy your statement..
    Paul W. Ross, Sep 23, 2004
    #8
  9. johz

    Tony Morgan Guest

    In message <>, Paul W.
    Ross <> writes
    >I taught Computer Science for 20 years AFTER 7 years in industrial
    >research (Sarnoff Labs), and 6 years of running a college computer
    >center. Sorry, I don't buy your statement..


    Sorry, but you are very much the exception. And if you HAD run a college
    computer center I would have thought that you would well know that what
    I suggest is very true..

    And, I might add, if you really HAD spent 7 years in industrial
    research, I would have thought that you would be well aware of the
    failure of colleges and uni's to impart sufficient knowledge to allow
    their graduates to perform (without a substantial amount of additional
    training). But then, of course, most lecturers are divorced from the
    reality of the real world.

    Only six years ago, 80% of unis taught Fortran and Cobol as their
    languages. Now that is as far from reality as you can get.

    I spent three-and-a-half years in an engineered systems division of
    Rockwell Automation (formerly Allen-Bradley), where graduates (even
    those with Firsts) had to be trained for two years as "Graduate
    Engineers" before they could safely be let loose on anything.

    Only last year, my grandson-in-law left uni with a First, and after
    three months looking for a job, had to take a gopher job because
    employers prefer experience. Six months of that and he went back to Uni
    to get a PhD so that he could join the "system" and become a member of
    academia.

    Things haven't always been that way, which is perhaps you have now lost
    the plot after being out of the loop for 20 years :)

    Time was when to get membership of the IEE (that was before the days of
    the IEEE), those in academia had to do a year in industry - and those in
    industry had to do a year teaching.

    I don't blame the students, I don't even blame the lecturers. The
    problem is the system, where syllabus is set by academics and
    examination/assessment is conducted by academics (often with a long time
    out of the loop) - and I am surprised that you don't recognise that.

    Anyway, this is running OT, though very relevant to the OP's post which
    seems to support my view.

    --
    Tony Morgan
    Tony Morgan, Sep 24, 2004
    #9
  10. johz

    Guest

    On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:18:12 +0100, Tony Morgan
    <> wrote:

    >In message <>, johz
    ><> writes
    >>i just finished a course in college where practically all we did was
    >>play around with digital cameras.

    >
    >Perhaps you should have considered which college you attended more
    >carefully.
    >
    >Though I must admit that many (most?) college courses are conducted by
    >lecturers who have absolutely no practical working experience in the
    >field in which they teach.
    >
    >Indeed, most teachers and lecturers at all academic levels have never
    >left school. Their "career path" is: primary school --> secondary school
    >--> college or university --> teaching.
    >
    >How on earth any student can expect education/training for anything
    >(other than teaching) beats me :)
    >
    >As the saying goes "There's those that can, do, and those that can't,
    >teach".


    That's used frequently by those who can't distinguish between
    the skills needed for teaching and doing. Many doers also couldn't
    pass their skills along through teaching if their lives depended on
    it.

    Since you said, "There's those ....", I hope you never intend
    to teach English to anyone.
    , Sep 25, 2004
    #10
  11. johz

    Guest

    On 23 Sep 2004 15:01:20 -0700, (Paul W. Ross) wrote:

    >I taught Computer Science for 20 years AFTER 7 years in industrial
    >research (Sarnoff Labs), and 6 years of running a college computer
    >center. Sorry, I don't buy your statement..


    Good thing -- anything you paid would have been excessive.
    , Sep 25, 2004
    #11
  12. johz

    Tony Morgan Guest

    In message <>,
    writes
    > Since you said, "There's those ....", I hope you never intend
    >to teach English to anyone.


    Clearly you are too inept to:

    1. Recognise a quote (Hint: Those little quotation marks
    at each end signify a quote).

    2. Have read (or maybe you've not understood) RFC1855.
    --
    Tony Morgan
    http://www.camcord.info
    Tony Morgan, Sep 25, 2004
    #12
  13. johz

    Charlie Self Guest

    Tony Morgan snarls:

    >In message <>,
    >writes
    >> Since you said, "There's those ....", I hope you never intend
    >>to teach English to anyone.

    >
    >Clearly you are too inept to:
    >
    >1. Recognise a quote (Hint: Those little quotation marks
    > at each end signify a quote).
    >


    Quoting whom?

    >2. Have read (or maybe you've not understood) RFC1855.


    Not only that, I haven't heard of RFC1855.

    Charlie Self
    "Half of the American people have never read a newspaper. Half never voted for
    President. One hopes it is the same half." Gore Vidal
    Charlie Self, Sep 25, 2004
    #13
  14. johz

    Tony Morgan Guest

    In message <>, Charlie Self
    <> writes
    >Tony Morgan snarls:
    >
    >>In message <>,
    >>writes
    >>> Since you said, "There's those ....", I hope you never intend
    >>>to teach English to anyone.

    >>
    >>Clearly you are too inept to:
    >>
    >>1. Recognise a quote (Hint: Those little quotation marks
    >> at each end signify a quote).
    >>

    >
    >Quoting whom?


    You do seem determined to demonstrate your inordinate ineptitude as well
    as your inability to read aren't you? Here, I'll help you.....

    I posted: <QUOTE> As the saying goes "There's those that can, do, and
    those that can't, teach". </QUOTE>.

    Read.... "THE SAYING". Oh dear, I've used those little marks again...
    :)
    >
    >>2. Have read (or maybe you've not understood) RFC1855.

    >
    >Not only that, I haven't heard of RFC1855.
    >

    Nor it seems, have you heard of Google.

    I bet you're a teacher :)

    --
    Tony Morgan
    http://www.camcord.info
    Tony Morgan, Sep 26, 2004
    #14
  15. johz

    Charlie Self Guest

    Tony Morgan blathers:

    >>>In message <>,
    >>>writes
    >>>> Since you said, "There's those ....", I hope you never intend
    >>>>to teach English to anyone.
    >>>
    >>>Clearly you are too inept to:
    >>>
    >>>1. Recognise a quote (Hint: Those little quotation marks
    >>> at each end signify a quote).
    >>>

    >>
    >>Quoting whom?

    >
    >You do seem determined to demonstrate your inordinate ineptitude as well
    >as your inability to read aren't you? Here, I'll help you.....
    >
    >I posted: <QUOTE> As the saying goes "There's those that can, do, and
    >those that can't, teach". </QUOTE>.
    >
    >Read.... "THE SAYING". Oh dear, I've used those little marks again...


    Oh, dear. Yes. Quote marks. I did notice. Really I did. But I asked for the
    name of the person you were quoting, not a diatribe on something you know
    little about. Obviously, you're quoting yourself, then, which means the
    gawdawful sentence structure is yours.

    >>>2. Have read (or maybe you've not understood) RFC1855.

    >>
    >>Not only that, I haven't heard of RFC1855.
    >>

    >Nor it seems, have you heard of Google.
    >
    >I bet you're a teacher :)


    Wrong.

    Charlie Self
    "Half of the American people have never read a newspaper. Half never voted for
    President. One hopes it is the same half." Gore Vidal
    Charlie Self, Sep 26, 2004
    #15
  16. johz

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Paul W. Ross wrote:
    > I taught Computer Science for 20 years AFTER 7 years in industrial
    > research (Sarnoff Labs), and 6 years of running a college computer
    > center. Sorry, I don't buy your statement..


    It is often true, but there are certainly exceptions. Some of the best
    teachers I had taught from their prior experience in various careers,
    before they turned to teaching. After retiring from 40 years in IT, I
    am considering teaching to supplement my retirement.
    Ron Hunter, Sep 26, 2004
    #16
  17. johz

    Tony Morgan Guest

    In message <>, Charlie Self
    <> writes
    >Tony Morgan blathers:
    >
    >>>>In message <>,
    >>>>writes
    >>>>> Since you said, "There's those ....", I hope you never intend
    >>>>>to teach English to anyone.
    >>>>
    >>>>Clearly you are too inept to:
    >>>>
    >>>>1. Recognise a quote (Hint: Those little quotation marks
    >>>> at each end signify a quote).
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>Quoting whom?

    >>
    >>You do seem determined to demonstrate your inordinate ineptitude as well
    >>as your inability to read aren't you? Here, I'll help you.....
    >>
    >>I posted: <QUOTE> As the saying goes "There's those that can, do, and
    >>those that can't, teach". </QUOTE>.
    >>
    >>Read.... "THE SAYING". Oh dear, I've used those little marks again...

    >
    >Oh, dear. Yes. Quote marks. I did notice. Really I did. But I asked for the
    >name of the person you were quoting, not a diatribe on something you know
    >little about. Obviously, you're quoting yourself, then, which means the
    >gawdawful sentence structure is yours.


    Try Googling on 'quotations + teach'. Surprise, surprise - the first
    link that comes up is http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/teaching/
    where, again, surprise... the seventh quotation is attributed to Bernard
    Shaw's Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for Revolutionists".

    But then. Of course, you haven't got around to discovering Google yet.
    >
    >>>>2. Have read (or maybe you've not understood) RFC1855.
    >>>
    >>>Not only that, I haven't heard of RFC1855.
    >>>

    >>Nor it seems, have you heard of Google.
    >>
    >>I bet you're a teacher :)

    >
    >Wrong.


    No comment :)

    Anyway, the OP's post illustrated the generalisation about the relevance
    of today's technical/vocational college courses, and seems to support my
    impressions.

    It is a generalisation of course. There are a few teachers and lecturers
    who do have some experience in what they teach, but unfortunately they
    are few and far between.

    Here in the UK this failure to bring relevance and experience to
    subjects being taught is, to a large extent due to the teaching trade's
    unions who vehemently oppose the employment of anyone with experience in
    the relevant teaching disciplines.

    I should also add that here in the UK we have "careers
    officers/advisors" in our schools who are often completely inexperienced
    outside the educational system, and additionally unable to perform
    satisfactorily as teachers - i.e. they are failed teachers so are farmed
    off advising pupils on how and where to pursue their education/training.
    --
    Tony Morgan
    http://www.rhylonline.com
    Tony Morgan, Sep 26, 2004
    #17
  18. johz

    Charlie Self Guest

    Tony Morgan responds:

    >>Oh, dear. Yes. Quote marks. I did notice. Really I did. But I asked for the
    >>name of the person you were quoting, not a diatribe on something you know
    >>little about. Obviously, you're quoting yourself, then, which means the
    >>gawdawful sentence structure is yours.

    >
    >Try Googling on 'quotations + teach'. Surprise, surprise - the first
    >link that comes up is http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/teaching/
    >where, again, surprise... the seventh quotation is attributed to Bernard
    >Shaw's Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for Revolutionists"


    Which doesn't change the pisspoor sentence structure. Nor does it change the
    simple fact that YOU provided quotation marks with no attribution. I really
    isn't up to the reader to either read your mind or do research on things you're
    too silly to include.

    >But then. Of course, you haven't got around to discovering Google yet.


    You must like the word: Wrong.

    >It is a generalisation of course. There are a few teachers and lecturers
    >who do have some experience in what they teach, but unfortunately they
    >are few and far between.
    >
    >Here in the UK this failure to bring relevance and experience to
    >subjects being taught is, to a large extent due to the teaching trade's
    >unions who vehemently oppose the employment of anyone with experience in
    >the relevant teaching disciplines.
    >
    >I should also add that here in the UK we have "careers
    >officers/advisors" in our schools who are often completely inexperienced
    >outside the educational system, and additionally unable to perform
    >satisfactorily as teachers - i.e. they are failed teachers so are farmed
    >off advising pupils on how and where to pursue their education/training.


    No comment on faculty advisers. They don't seem to be even that good in many of
    the U.S. schools, but your comments only work as a generalization within the
    UK, not around the world. The US has no "trade untion" keeping experienced
    people from teaching in schools, though it seldom happens in secondary schools.
    I've got one uncle who made a second career teaching about his first career,
    auto mechanics. Of course, in the years since Ed retired, some rules have
    changed: junior or community colleges are now called "two year institutions of
    learning," and have developed illusions of grandeur, as have some former quite
    good (possibly still quite good in spite of the pretentious attitudes of the
    current generation of assholes administering them) universities from the past
    are hawking themselves with titles such as "The University" and "University at
    Albany". The latter was plain ol' Albany State when I graduated many years ago.

    In some areas, and in some schools, it is still considered preferable to have
    teachers with at least a little experience in life disciplines, though I
    imagine it's become less preferable as the movement towards needing a
    Bachelor's degree is becoming necessary for managers at individual fast food
    joints.

    Once that necessity is established, it follows that the degree itself will be
    even further degraded than it was during the non-competitive '70s (pass/fail
    courses that were damned near impossible to fail and similar great method of
    learning concepts).

    In other words, the US gets a similar amount of bullshit to that you endure in
    the UK, but it tends to come from a slightly different angle.

    Charlie Self
    "Half of the American people have never read a newspaper. Half never voted for
    President. One hopes it is the same half." Gore Vidal
    Charlie Self, Sep 26, 2004
    #18
  19. johz

    Guest

    On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 11:35:11 +0100, Tony Morgan
    <> wrote:

    >In message <>, Charlie Self
    ><> writes
    >>Tony Morgan blathers:
    >>
    >>>>>In message <>,
    >>>>>writes
    >>>>>> Since you said, "There's those ....", I hope you never intend
    >>>>>>to teach English to anyone.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Clearly you are too inept to:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>1. Recognise a quote (Hint: Those little quotation marks
    >>>>> at each end signify a quote).
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>Quoting whom?
    >>>
    >>>You do seem determined to demonstrate your inordinate ineptitude as well
    >>>as your inability to read aren't you? Here, I'll help you.....
    >>>
    >>>I posted: <QUOTE> As the saying goes "There's those that can, do, and
    >>>those that can't, teach". </QUOTE>.
    >>>
    >>>Read.... "THE SAYING". Oh dear, I've used those little marks again...

    >>
    >>Oh, dear. Yes. Quote marks. I did notice. Really I did. But I asked for the
    >>name of the person you were quoting, not a diatribe on something you know
    >>little about. Obviously, you're quoting yourself, then, which means the
    >>gawdawful sentence structure is yours.

    >
    >Try Googling on 'quotations + teach'. Surprise, surprise - the first
    >link that comes up is http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/teaching/
    >where, again, surprise... the seventh quotation is attributed to Bernard
    >Shaw's Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for Revolutionists".


    Note that Shaw's statement lacks the poor grammar and sentence
    structure of that which was originally enclosed in quotes as a clue to
    us poor clods. The poster was indeed quoting himself.

    As for the value of Shaw's proclamation:

    "A witty saying proves nothing."
    -- Voltaire, author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)

    >
    >But then. Of course, you haven't got around to discovering Google yet.
    >>
    >>>>>2. Have read (or maybe you've not understood) RFC1855.
    >>>>
    >>>>Not only that, I haven't heard of RFC1855.
    >>>>
    >>>Nor it seems, have you heard of Google.
    >>>
    >>>I bet you're a teacher :)

    >>
    >>Wrong.

    >
    >No comment :)
    >
    >Anyway, the OP's post illustrated the generalisation about the relevance
    >of today's technical/vocational college courses, and seems to support my
    >impressions.
    >
    >It is a generalisation of course. There are a few teachers and lecturers
    >who do have some experience in what they teach, but unfortunately they
    >are few and far between.
    >
    >Here in the UK this failure to bring relevance and experience to
    >subjects being taught is, to a large extent due to the teaching trade's
    >unions who vehemently oppose the employment of anyone with experience in
    >the relevant teaching disciplines.
    >
    >I should also add that here in the UK we have "careers
    >officers/advisors" in our schools who are often completely inexperienced
    >outside the educational system, and additionally unable to perform
    >satisfactorily as teachers - i.e. they are failed teachers so are farmed
    >off advising pupils on how and where to pursue their education/training.
    , Sep 26, 2004
    #19
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