COBOL to MCSD?

Discussion in 'MCSD' started by Karl Kuhrt, Oct 23, 2003.

  1. Karl Kuhrt

    Karl Kuhrt Guest

    Hi all. Any help for an "old" COBOL programmer going for
    his MCSD certification? I have just started and actually
    have MSVS .NET installed and attached to a SQL Server 2K
    database. I am just finding myself struggling
    tremendously with the newer technologies. Not only the
    terminology, but applying concepts too? Has anyone out
    gone through what I am attempting to go through? Any
    pointers for me? All I know to do is to study my .....
    off! Any comments are greatly appreciated!

    Thanks,
    Karl
     
    Karl Kuhrt, Oct 23, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Karl Kuhrt

    Guest Guest

    Are you new to Windows development in general? If so, then you may want
    to postpone working toward a certification until you have at least 2 years
    of expereince learning the basics. The MCSD certification track is not
    intended to be a training program.
    While there probably are a lot of companies wanting to port their legacy
    COBOL applications to dotnet, you will want to focus your learning on
    ASP.NET and C#. You can learn a lot by studying articles and sample projects
    from websites like www.msdn.com and www.gotdotnet.com.


    "Karl Kuhrt" <> wrote in message
    news:078a01c39937$d1a52d20$...
    > Hi all. Any help for an "old" COBOL programmer going for
    > his MCSD certification? I have just started and actually
    > have MSVS .NET installed and attached to a SQL Server 2K
    > database. I am just finding myself struggling
    > tremendously with the newer technologies. Not only the
    > terminology, but applying concepts too? Has anyone out
    > gone through what I am attempting to go through? Any
    > pointers for me? All I know to do is to study my .....
    > off! Any comments are greatly appreciated!
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Karl
     
    Guest, Oct 23, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. A business partner of mine was in the same boat. He's been a hardcore COBOL
    programmer from who knows when...

    Check out the APress site (http://www.apress.com), they have a great book he
    worked through. I reviewed it for him to make sure the content was
    applicable. It covers a lot of important material including things like
    COM+. The nice thing is, is that it uses COBOL as a reference point in
    teaching VB.NET and .NET.

    Here's the apress link:
    http://apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=112

    The link to Amazon (ignore the bad review...):
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...-1851934?v=glance&s=books&vi=customer-reviews

    HTH,

    --
    Leigh Kendall MCSD, MCDBA


    "Karl Kuhrt" <> wrote in message
    news:078a01c39937$d1a52d20$...
    > Hi all. Any help for an "old" COBOL programmer going for
    > his MCSD certification? I have just started and actually
    > have MSVS .NET installed and attached to a SQL Server 2K
    > database. I am just finding myself struggling
    > tremendously with the newer technologies. Not only the
    > terminology, but applying concepts too? Has anyone out
    > gone through what I am attempting to go through? Any
    > pointers for me? All I know to do is to study my .....
    > off! Any comments are greatly appreciated!
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Karl
     
    Leigh Kendall, Oct 23, 2003
    #3
  4. Karl Kuhrt

    Jaime Guest

    I think if you do a lot of reading and play with the program everyday you
    can do it, I don't believe that you have to know a certain amount first, at
    one point none of us knew anything, everyone has to start somewhere, go for
    it.
    "Karl Kuhrt" <> wrote in message
    news:078a01c39937$d1a52d20$...
    > Hi all. Any help for an "old" COBOL programmer going for
    > his MCSD certification? I have just started and actually
    > have MSVS .NET installed and attached to a SQL Server 2K
    > database. I am just finding myself struggling
    > tremendously with the newer technologies. Not only the
    > terminology, but applying concepts too? Has anyone out
    > gone through what I am attempting to go through? Any
    > pointers for me? All I know to do is to study my .....
    > off! Any comments are greatly appreciated!
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Karl
     
    Jaime, Oct 23, 2003
    #4
  5. Karl Kuhrt

    emg Guest

    Hey Karl . . .

    I've made the transition you're attempting - - you will probably want to
    ask more than a question or two - - you can email me directly at the
    following address if you remove the string 'cobol' and the internal blank
    spaces from the address.

    cobolemg nospam@com cast.net

    emg

    "Karl Kuhrt" <> wrote in message
    news:078a01c39937$d1a52d20$...
    > Hi all. Any help for an "old" COBOL programmer going for
    > his MCSD certification? I have just started and actually
    > have MSVS .NET installed and attached to a SQL Server 2K
    > database. I am just finding myself struggling
    > tremendously with the newer technologies. Not only the
    > terminology, but applying concepts too? Has anyone out
    > gone through what I am attempting to go through? Any
    > pointers for me? All I know to do is to study my .....
    > off! Any comments are greatly appreciated!
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Karl
     
    emg, Oct 23, 2003
    #5
  6. Karl Kuhrt

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >The MCSD certification track is not
    >intended to be a training program.


    Very true - no experience required.
     
    Kline Sphere, Oct 23, 2003
    #6
  7. Karl Kuhrt

    Kline Sphere Guest

    Before such an understating, ensure you get good understanding of
    object oriented software development process.

    Being a cobol bob, I'm sure you have a good idea of 'traditional'
    software development processes. Well, an object oriented approach
    simplifies the whole development process when conducted correctly.

    Although you don't need to understand anything about oo in order to
    pass these exams, you will if you want to take it to the next level
    and earn a good living in a dot net environment.


    >Hi all. Any help for an "old" COBOL programmer going for
    >his MCSD certification? I have just started and actually
    >have MSVS .NET installed and attached to a SQL Server 2K
    >database. I am just finding myself struggling
    >tremendously with the newer technologies. Not only the
    >terminology, but applying concepts too? Has anyone out
    >gone through what I am attempting to go through? Any
    >pointers for me? All I know to do is to study my .....
    >off! Any comments are greatly appreciated!
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Karl
     
    Kline Sphere, Oct 23, 2003
    #7
  8. Karl Kuhrt

    Jaime Guest

    lol
    "Kline Sphere" <-> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >The MCSD certification track is not
    > >intended to be a training program.

    >
    > Very true - no experience required.
     
    Jaime, Oct 23, 2003
    #8
  9. Karl Kuhrt

    Eric Engler Guest

    Get the videos from this site:
    www.learnvisualstudio.net

    They are for your PC - you get to see the desktop as the instructor
    walks you thru various menus and shows you how to build applications.

    Eric
     
    Eric Engler, Oct 23, 2003
    #9
  10. Karl Kuhrt

    karl Guest

    Hi,
    Thanks for the reply. I will definitely be emailing
    you. I am just starting this process, so we will see
    where we go. I was just happy to get the software
    installed and attached a SQL Server db to the VS
    application.
    Thanks again,
    Karl
    >-----Original Message-----
    >Hey Karl . . .
    >
    >I've made the transition you're attempting - - you will

    probably want to
    >ask more than a question or two - - you can email me

    directly at the
    >following address if you remove the string 'cobol' and

    the internal blank
    >spaces from the address.
    >
    >cobolemg nospam@com cast.net
    >
    >emg
    >
    >"Karl Kuhrt" <> wrote in message
    >news:078a01c39937$d1a52d20$...
    >> Hi all. Any help for an "old" COBOL programmer going

    for
    >> his MCSD certification? I have just started and

    actually
    >> have MSVS .NET installed and attached to a SQL Server

    2K
    >> database. I am just finding myself struggling
    >> tremendously with the newer technologies. Not only the
    >> terminology, but applying concepts too? Has anyone out
    >> gone through what I am attempting to go through? Any
    >> pointers for me? All I know to do is to study my .....
    >> off! Any comments are greatly appreciated!
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Karl

    >
    >
    >.
    >
     
    karl, Oct 24, 2003
    #10
  11. Karl Kuhrt

    Karl Guest

    Leigh,
    Thank you very much! I do have somewhat of an OO
    background, but they are certainly loosing me on some
    topics, assuming that I already have the knowledge!

    Thanks again,
    Karl
    >-----Original Message-----
    >A business partner of mine was in the same boat. He's

    been a hardcore COBOL
    >programmer from who knows when...
    >
    >Check out the APress site (http://www.apress.com), they

    have a great book he
    >worked through. I reviewed it for him to make sure the

    content was
    >applicable. It covers a lot of important material

    including things like
    >COM+. The nice thing is, is that it uses COBOL as a

    reference point in
    >teaching VB.NET and .NET.
    >
    >Here's the apress link:
    >http://apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=112
    >
    >The link to Amazon (ignore the bad review...):
    >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-

    /1590590481/ref=cm_rev_all_1/104-9928252-1851934?
    v=glance&s=books&vi=customer-reviews
    >
    >HTH,
    >
    >--
    >Leigh Kendall MCSD, MCDBA
    >
    >
    >"Karl Kuhrt" <> wrote in message
    >news:078a01c39937$d1a52d20$...
    >> Hi all. Any help for an "old" COBOL programmer going

    for
    >> his MCSD certification? I have just started and

    actually
    >> have MSVS .NET installed and attached to a SQL Server

    2K
    >> database. I am just finding myself struggling
    >> tremendously with the newer technologies. Not only the
    >> terminology, but applying concepts too? Has anyone out
    >> gone through what I am attempting to go through? Any
    >> pointers for me? All I know to do is to study my .....
    >> off! Any comments are greatly appreciated!
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Karl

    >
    >.
    >
     
    Karl, Oct 24, 2003
    #11
  12. Karl Kuhrt

    Karl Guest

    Yes, I am new to Windows development! I can't postpone
    it! I have been out of work in the IT field for over 2
    years now. I am using the certification as a springboard
    to landing a job. I have to do something to make myself
    stand out! This is the track I want to go in the future
    anyway! Any other sugestions?

    Thanks,
    Karl
    >-----Original Message-----
    >
    > Are you new to Windows development in general? If

    so, then you may want
    >to postpone working toward a certification until you

    have at least 2 years
    >of expereince learning the basics. The MCSD

    certification track is not
    >intended to be a training program.
    > While there probably are a lot of companies wanting

    to port their legacy
    >COBOL applications to dotnet, you will want to focus

    your learning on
    >ASP.NET and C#. You can learn a lot by studying articles

    and sample projects
    >from websites like www.msdn.com and www.gotdotnet.com.
    >
    >
    >"Karl Kuhrt" <> wrote in message
    >news:078a01c39937$d1a52d20$...
    >> Hi all. Any help for an "old" COBOL programmer going

    for
    >> his MCSD certification? I have just started and

    actually
    >> have MSVS .NET installed and attached to a SQL Server

    2K
    >> database. I am just finding myself struggling
    >> tremendously with the newer technologies. Not only the
    >> terminology, but applying concepts too? Has anyone out
    >> gone through what I am attempting to go through? Any
    >> pointers for me? All I know to do is to study my .....
    >> off! Any comments are greatly appreciated!
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Karl

    >
    >
    >.
    >
     
    Karl, Oct 24, 2003
    #12
  13. Karl Kuhrt

    Karl Guest

    Jamie,
    Thank you! I needed the encouragement. Especially in
    my perdicament. I have been out of IT work due to a
    layoff for almost 2 years now! I can't stand it any
    longer! You are right, I need to start somewhere. I get
    the main jist so far, its just that they make a lot of
    assumptions and it throws me. I do have a mentor to go
    to for questions which is good though. It helps that I
    have done some MS SQL Server DBA work!

    Thanks again,
    Karl

    >-----Original Message-----
    >I think if you do a lot of reading and play with the

    program everyday you
    >can do it, I don't believe that you have to know a

    certain amount first, at
    >one point none of us knew anything, everyone has to

    start somewhere, go for
    >it.
    >"Karl Kuhrt" <> wrote in message
    >news:078a01c39937$d1a52d20$...
    >> Hi all. Any help for an "old" COBOL programmer going

    for
    >> his MCSD certification? I have just started and

    actually
    >> have MSVS .NET installed and attached to a SQL Server

    2K
    >> database. I am just finding myself struggling
    >> tremendously with the newer technologies. Not only the
    >> terminology, but applying concepts too? Has anyone out
    >> gone through what I am attempting to go through? Any
    >> pointers for me? All I know to do is to study my .....
    >> off! Any comments are greatly appreciated!
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Karl

    >
    >
    >.
    >
     
    Karl, Oct 24, 2003
    #13
  14. Karl Kuhrt

    Jaime Guest

    That definitely helps, start with a step by step book if you want, that's
    what I did.
    "Karl" <> wrote in message
    news:0d0a01c399cb$78855280$...
    > Jamie,
    > Thank you! I needed the encouragement. Especially in
    > my perdicament. I have been out of IT work due to a
    > layoff for almost 2 years now! I can't stand it any
    > longer! You are right, I need to start somewhere. I get
    > the main jist so far, its just that they make a lot of
    > assumptions and it throws me. I do have a mentor to go
    > to for questions which is good though. It helps that I
    > have done some MS SQL Server DBA work!
    >
    > Thanks again,
    > Karl
    >
    > >-----Original Message-----
    > >I think if you do a lot of reading and play with the

    > program everyday you
    > >can do it, I don't believe that you have to know a

    > certain amount first, at
    > >one point none of us knew anything, everyone has to

    > start somewhere, go for
    > >it.
    > >"Karl Kuhrt" <> wrote in message
    > >news:078a01c39937$d1a52d20$...
    > >> Hi all. Any help for an "old" COBOL programmer going

    > for
    > >> his MCSD certification? I have just started and

    > actually
    > >> have MSVS .NET installed and attached to a SQL Server

    > 2K
    > >> database. I am just finding myself struggling
    > >> tremendously with the newer technologies. Not only the
    > >> terminology, but applying concepts too? Has anyone out
    > >> gone through what I am attempting to go through? Any
    > >> pointers for me? All I know to do is to study my .....
    > >> off! Any comments are greatly appreciated!
    > >>
    > >> Thanks,
    > >> Karl

    > >
    > >
    > >.
    > >
     
    Jaime, Oct 24, 2003
    #14
  15. Karl Kuhrt

    Guest Guest

    Have you considered MCDBA?

    Hi Karl,

    Keep in mind that a Microsoft certification may make your resume stand out,
    but it may not significantly improve your chances of landing a job.
    Prospective employers are more interested in past experience. As a veteran
    COBOL programmer, you probably have a strong background in system analysis
    and database design. The Microsoft Certified Database Administrator (MCDBA)
    track may take more advantage of your current strengths and provide a
    quicker transition. Below is a link for info on that certification:
    http://www.microsoft.com/traincert/mcp/mcdba/mcdba.asp

    If you are really interested in web/windows development, you could perhaps
    start out as a DBA with a company that is large and diverse enough for
    moving into other areas later.

    WKidd

    "Karl" <> wrote in message
    news:05c801c399ca$784a13b0$...
    > Yes, I am new to Windows development! I can't postpone
    > it! I have been out of work in the IT field for over 2
    > years now. I am using the certification as a springboard
    > to landing a job. I have to do something to make myself
    > stand out! This is the track I want to go in the future
    > anyway! Any other sugestions?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Karl
    > >-----Original Message-----
    > >
    > > Are you new to Windows development in general? If

    > so, then you may want
    > >to postpone working toward a certification until you

    > have at least 2 years
    > >of expereince learning the basics. The MCSD

    > certification track is not
    > >intended to be a training program.
    > > While there probably are a lot of companies wanting

    > to port their legacy
    > >COBOL applications to dotnet, you will want to focus

    > your learning on
    > >ASP.NET and C#. You can learn a lot by studying articles

    > and sample projects
    > >from websites like www.msdn.com and www.gotdotnet.com.
    > >
    > >
    > >"Karl Kuhrt" <> wrote in message
    > >news:078a01c39937$d1a52d20$...
    > >> Hi all. Any help for an "old" COBOL programmer going

    > for
    > >> his MCSD certification? I have just started and

    > actually
    > >> have MSVS .NET installed and attached to a SQL Server

    > 2K
    > >> database. I am just finding myself struggling
    > >> tremendously with the newer technologies. Not only the
    > >> terminology, but applying concepts too? Has anyone out
    > >> gone through what I am attempting to go through? Any
    > >> pointers for me? All I know to do is to study my .....
    > >> off! Any comments are greatly appreciated!
    > >>
    > >> Thanks,
    > >> Karl

    > >
    > >
    > >.
    > >
     
    Guest, Oct 24, 2003
    #15
  16. Karl Kuhrt

    Guest Guest

    Hi Karl,

    The following link provides assessment test for measuring your current
    skills. This could give you an idea of where you are where you want to go.
    http://www.msmeasureup.com/test/home.asp

    WKidd


    "Karl Kuhrt" <> wrote in message
    news:078a01c39937$d1a52d20$...
    > Hi all. Any help for an "old" COBOL programmer going for
    > his MCSD certification? I have just started and actually
    > have MSVS .NET installed and attached to a SQL Server 2K
    > database. I am just finding myself struggling
    > tremendously with the newer technologies. Not only the
    > terminology, but applying concepts too? Has anyone out
    > gone through what I am attempting to go through? Any
    > pointers for me? All I know to do is to study my .....
    > off! Any comments are greatly appreciated!
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Karl
     
    Guest, Oct 24, 2003
    #16
  17. No problem.

    In regards to the actual value of certification, which there are endless
    debates, my philosophy is "it can't hurt". I view the MCSD or MCDBA (which I
    have both) as a structured way to keeping up your skills, and a way to
    validate to most clients/companies that you have a at least a "baseline" of
    Microsoft product knowledge and the ability and desire to learn. Layer on
    top of that experience and in my view you have a recipe for success. And
    don't forget the soft skills. I think those are amongst the most valuable
    for any profession. Closet hiding geeks with greasy hair don't rank high on
    my list. The ability to interact with the end users and clients is
    essential.

    And remember, believe in yourself and don't compromise your goals. It may be
    a bit (read a lot) harder to find work, but it's out there. Don't discount
    your previous experience either just because it was COBOL. You can design
    and write bad programs in any language or technology. Even .NET (and yes,
    even Java) ;-).

    HTH,

    --
    Leigh Kendall MCSD, MCDBA

    "Karl" <> wrote in message
    news:049201c399c9$b00db370$...
    > Leigh,
    > Thank you very much! I do have somewhat of an OO
    > background, but they are certainly loosing me on some
    > topics, assuming that I already have the knowledge!
    >
    > Thanks again,
    > Karl
    > >-----Original Message-----
    > >A business partner of mine was in the same boat. He's

    > been a hardcore COBOL
    > >programmer from who knows when...
    > >
    > >Check out the APress site (http://www.apress.com), they

    > have a great book he
    > >worked through. I reviewed it for him to make sure the

    > content was
    > >applicable. It covers a lot of important material

    > including things like
    > >COM+. The nice thing is, is that it uses COBOL as a

    > reference point in
    > >teaching VB.NET and .NET.
    > >
    > >Here's the apress link:
    > >http://apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=112
    > >
    > >The link to Amazon (ignore the bad review...):
    > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-

    > /1590590481/ref=cm_rev_all_1/104-9928252-1851934?
    > v=glance&s=books&vi=customer-reviews
    > >
    > >HTH,
    > >
    > >--
    > >Leigh Kendall MCSD, MCDBA
    > >
    > >
    > >"Karl Kuhrt" <> wrote in message
    > >news:078a01c39937$d1a52d20$...
    > >> Hi all. Any help for an "old" COBOL programmer going

    > for
    > >> his MCSD certification? I have just started and

    > actually
    > >> have MSVS .NET installed and attached to a SQL Server

    > 2K
    > >> database. I am just finding myself struggling
    > >> tremendously with the newer technologies. Not only the
    > >> terminology, but applying concepts too? Has anyone out
    > >> gone through what I am attempting to go through? Any
    > >> pointers for me? All I know to do is to study my .....
    > >> off! Any comments are greatly appreciated!
    > >>
    > >> Thanks,
    > >> Karl

    > >
    > >.
    > >
     
    Leigh Kendall, Oct 24, 2003
    #17
  18. Karl Kuhrt

    karl kuhrt Guest

    Leigh,
    Thanks again. I actually will be getting both of those
    certifications as well (MCSD and MCDBA). Those are my
    goals at least. I agree with you on the assessment of
    certifications. It just like college to me and the way I
    perceive its value. I have known a lot of educated
    idiots! A degree to me simply means that you did
    whatever it took to get the job done. When you enter the
    job force, then its time to prove what you have learned!
    I am very, very good at the soft skills. In the past I
    have lacked somewhat on the technical skills - mostly in
    interviews though because I am very nervous! Not a good
    trait to have. I have had many, many experiences with
    clients and all have been good! That is why my former
    employers all wanted me in the COBOL arena, because I was
    good at the technology, the impelementation and my
    customer/client skills were top notch! I can sell myself
    very well. I have a great attitude, but to tell you the
    truth, it has been almost 2 years now since I have done
    any IT work at all. The longer I am out, does not help
    my cause!
    Thanks again,
    Karl
     
    karl kuhrt, Oct 26, 2003
    #18
  19. Karl Kuhrt

    karl kuhrt Guest

    Have you considered MCDBA?

    Hi,
    Thank you for your response. Actually, my goals are to
    get my MCSD and MCDBA certifications. Being an older
    COBOL programmer, I love the developement arena. I am
    also very fond of databases. I am aware that potential
    employers look for experience. That is what scares me
    the most. I have been out of the IT industry for almost
    2 years now! I can sell myself very well in an
    interview, but I can't even get an employer to set up an
    interview with me. That is one of the reasons why I am
    going for my certifications. I just feel that I have to
    do something to make myself stand out and have an
    employer give me a chance. I don't care about the $, I
    want the chance to prove myself that I can do it and I
    also want an opportunity at the new technologies!

    Thanks again,
    Karl
     
    karl kuhrt, Oct 26, 2003
    #19
  20. Sounds like you have all the right traits; including the desire to learn and
    move ahead!

    I don't know that I'd be too worried about the employment gap; try to
    de-emphasize the gap and emphasize your overall experience and your .NET
    certifications, the MCSD and MCDBA (when you get them).

    If possible, try to build some sample applications, as if you were building
    it for an employer or client. Who knows, if it's good enough and original
    enough you may not need to look for a job! You could start your own software
    company... Seriously though, you may be able to pick up a small client
    somewhere to do some work for which you could then list as "consulting"
    work, which it would be of course. Not sure what you're looking for, but you
    may want to try the various job boards like dice.com etc.; you may be able
    to pick up a short term contract until a full-time position comes along.

    Another idea would be to target larger corporations (insurance, state etc.)
    who are still using legacy COBOL, but are migrating to newer technologies
    such as SQL Server/Oracle and .NET. Your COBOL background would be very
    helpful in rewriting a legacy system.

    Good luck!!

    --
    Leigh Kendall MCSD, MCDBA

    "karl kuhrt" <> wrote in message
    news:003c01c39be0$78b20ca0$...
    > Leigh,
    > Thanks again. I actually will be getting both of those
    > certifications as well (MCSD and MCDBA). Those are my
    > goals at least. I agree with you on the assessment of
    > certifications. It just like college to me and the way I
    > perceive its value. I have known a lot of educated
    > idiots! A degree to me simply means that you did
    > whatever it took to get the job done. When you enter the
    > job force, then its time to prove what you have learned!
    > I am very, very good at the soft skills. In the past I
    > have lacked somewhat on the technical skills - mostly in
    > interviews though because I am very nervous! Not a good
    > trait to have. I have had many, many experiences with
    > clients and all have been good! That is why my former
    > employers all wanted me in the COBOL arena, because I was
    > good at the technology, the impelementation and my
    > customer/client skills were top notch! I can sell myself
    > very well. I have a great attitude, but to tell you the
    > truth, it has been almost 2 years now since I have done
    > any IT work at all. The longer I am out, does not help
    > my cause!
    > Thanks again,
    > Karl
     
    Leigh Kendall, Oct 26, 2003
    #20
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