CMOS camera

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by J. Davidson, Aug 28, 2005.

  1. J. Davidson

    J. Davidson Guest

    Is there any mid-range camera with a CMOS sensor?
    For now, only low-end cameras like toy cameras and high-end SLR like Canon,
    Nikon and Kodak.

    Jerry
     
    J. Davidson, Aug 28, 2005
    #1
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  2. On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 10:52:11 -0400, "J. Davidson"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >Is there any mid-range camera with a CMOS sensor?
    >For now, only low-end cameras like toy cameras and high-end SLR like Canon,
    >Nikon and Kodak.


    I wouldn't call the Canon 300's High-end and they have CMOS. I would
    consider it a low end SLR.


    *************************************************************

    "I believe that all government is evil,
    in that all government must necessarily make war upon liberty...

    From "Mencken's Creed"
    H.L. Mencken (1880 -1956)
     
    John A. Stovall, Aug 28, 2005
    #2
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  3. J. Davidson

    J. Davidson Guest

    "John A. Stovall" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 10:52:11 -0400, "J. Davidson"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>Is there any mid-range camera with a CMOS sensor?
    >>For now, only low-end cameras like toy cameras and high-end SLR like
    >>Canon,
    >>Nikon and Kodak.

    >
    > I wouldn't call the Canon 300's High-end and they have CMOS. I would
    > consider it a low end SLR.
    >


    I have to agree with this, there are low-end SLRs too. Still a bit too
    pricey though!

    > *************************************************************
    >
    > "I believe that all government is evil,
    > in that all government must necessarily make war upon liberty...
    >
    > From "Mencken's Creed"
    > H.L. Mencken (1880 -1956)
     
    J. Davidson, Aug 28, 2005
    #3
  4. J. Davidson

    GTO Guest

    What do you call a "mid-range" camera? Is a DSLR a mid-range camera? If yes,
    see Canon's 350D. If no, the small size of the image sensor makes CCDs price
    competitive. In this case, why would you want to use a CMOS sensor instead?

    Gregor

    "J. Davidson" <> wrote in message
    news:tckQe.5856$...
    >
    > Is there any mid-range camera with a CMOS sensor?
    > For now, only low-end cameras like toy cameras and high-end SLR like
    > Canon, Nikon and Kodak.
    >
    > Jerry
    >
    >
     
    GTO, Aug 28, 2005
    #4
  5. J. Davidson

    SleeperMan Guest

    GTO wrote:
    > What do you call a "mid-range" camera? Is a DSLR a mid-range camera?
    > If yes, see Canon's 350D. If no, the small size of the image sensor
    > makes CCDs price competitive. In this case, why would you want to use
    > a CMOS sensor instead?
    > Gregor
    >


    Hm...maybe for same reason i looked on SLR's just before i bought
    S2...larger sensor, lower noise, better overall picture quality.
    But, price decided for me...so i went for S2 and i'm quite happy.
    SLR....maybe....one in the future...
     
    SleeperMan, Aug 28, 2005
    #5
  6. J. Davidson

    J. Davidson Guest

    "GTO" <> wrote in message
    news:lZnQe.25$...
    > What do you call a "mid-range" camera? Is a DSLR a mid-range camera? If
    > yes, see Canon's 350D. If no, the small size of the image sensor makes
    > CCDs price competitive. In this case, why would you want to use a CMOS
    > sensor instead?
    >
    > Gregor


    I didn't say I want to use a CMOS sensor. I am wondering why they are only
    installed in DSLR camera on one end and in toy cameras in the other end.
    Nothing between. With all the hype they made few years ago about CMOS sensor
    being less expansive to manufacture, it is (to me) a bit of a mistery why
    they don't use them in mid-range camera (about $150 to $300).

    >
    > "J. Davidson" <> wrote in message
    > news:tckQe.5856$...
    >>
    >> Is there any mid-range camera with a CMOS sensor?
    >> For now, only low-end cameras like toy cameras and high-end SLR like
    >> Canon, Nikon and Kodak.
    >>
    >> Jerry
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    J. Davidson, Aug 28, 2005
    #6
  7. J. Davidson

    GTO Guest

    I don't buy the argument with the "better overall picture quality" when
    using CMOS. Why do think the Hasselblad H1D and H2D sell with a CCD not
    CMOS?

    Gregor

    "SleeperMan" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:SoQe.1803$...
    > GTO wrote:
    >> What do you call a "mid-range" camera? Is a DSLR a mid-range camera?
    >> If yes, see Canon's 350D. If no, the small size of the image sensor
    >> makes CCDs price competitive. In this case, why would you want to use
    >> a CMOS sensor instead?
    >> Gregor
    >>

    >
    > Hm...maybe for same reason i looked on SLR's just before i bought
    > S2...larger sensor, lower noise, better overall picture quality.
    > But, price decided for me...so i went for S2 and i'm quite happy.
    > SLR....maybe....one in the future...
    >
     
    GTO, Aug 28, 2005
    #7
  8. On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 22:10:16 +0200, "SleeperMan"
    <> wrote:

    >GTO wrote:
    >> What do you call a "mid-range" camera? Is a DSLR a mid-range camera?
    >> If yes, see Canon's 350D. If no, the small size of the image sensor
    >> makes CCDs price competitive. In this case, why would you want to use
    >> a CMOS sensor instead?
    >> Gregor
    >>

    >
    >Hm...maybe for same reason i looked on SLR's just before i bought
    >S2...larger sensor, lower noise, better overall picture quality.
    >But, price decided for me...so i went for S2 and i'm quite happy.
    >SLR....maybe....one in the future...
    >


    Not necessarily the case.

    CMOS and CCD compared.

    http://www.dalsa.com/markets/ccd_vs_cmos.asp

    http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question362.htm

    CMOS is cheaper to make and takes less power but CCD will produce the
    better image.


    *************************************************************

    "I believe that all government is evil,
    in that all government must necessarily make war upon liberty...

    From "Mencken's Creed"
    H.L. Mencken (1880 -1956)
     
    John A. Stovall, Aug 28, 2005
    #8
  9. J. Davidson

    l e o Guest

    J. Davidson wrote:
    > "GTO" <> wrote in message
    > news:lZnQe.25$...
    >
    >>What do you call a "mid-range" camera? Is a DSLR a mid-range camera? If
    >>yes, see Canon's 350D. If no, the small size of the image sensor makes
    >>CCDs price competitive. In this case, why would you want to use a CMOS
    >>sensor instead?
    >>
    >>Gregor

    >
    >
    > I didn't say I want to use a CMOS sensor. I am wondering why they are only
    > installed in DSLR camera on one end and in toy cameras in the other end.
    > Nothing between. With all the hype they made few years ago about CMOS sensor
    > being less expansive to manufacture, it is (to me) a bit of a mistery why
    > they don't use them in mid-range camera (about $150 to $300).



    Maybe because in CMOS, the circuitry sits next to each sensor pixel. In
    a P&S camera, the pixel pitchs are getting way too tight for CMOS to
    achieve good picture quality economically. Sony, however, did say they
    are learning from the technique they use on the camera cell phone to
    eventually use CMOS on cheap P&S cameras.
     
    l e o, Aug 28, 2005
    #9
  10. "J. Davidson" <> wrote in message
    news:9LpQe.13817$A%...
    SNIP
    > I am wondering why they are only installed in DSLR camera on one end
    > and in toy cameras in the other end. Nothing between. With all the
    > hype they made few years ago about CMOS sensor being less expansive
    > to manufacture, it is (to me) a bit of a mistery why they don't use
    > them in mid-range camera (about $150 to $300).


    It seems that mostly Canon has achieved a sofar un-precedented quality
    leap in sensor design/quality control in CMOS devices in larger sizes.
    It probably has to do with them being largely in control of their own
    sensor production (they manufacture the chip producing equipment
    in-house as well). Canon is also one of the largest patent producing
    investors in Research and Development for digital photography. Others
    will follow (maybe at a distance), no doubt.

    Bart
     
    Bart van der Wolf, Aug 29, 2005
    #10
  11. J. Davidson

    RichA Guest

    On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 21:56:51 GMT, John A. Stovall
    <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 22:10:16 +0200, "SleeperMan"
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>GTO wrote:
    >>> What do you call a "mid-range" camera? Is a DSLR a mid-range camera?
    >>> If yes, see Canon's 350D. If no, the small size of the image sensor
    >>> makes CCDs price competitive. In this case, why would you want to use
    >>> a CMOS sensor instead?
    >>> Gregor
    >>>

    >>
    >>Hm...maybe for same reason i looked on SLR's just before i bought
    >>S2...larger sensor, lower noise, better overall picture quality.
    >>But, price decided for me...so i went for S2 and i'm quite happy.
    >>SLR....maybe....one in the future...
    >>

    >
    >Not necessarily the case.
    >
    >CMOS and CCD compared.
    >
    >http://www.dalsa.com/markets/ccd_vs_cmos.asp
    >
    >http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question362.htm
    >
    >CMOS is cheaper to make and takes less power but CCD will produce the
    >better image.


    This is probably better aimed at professional scientific camera makers
    (Finger Lakes, SBIG, etc) than the consumer stuff where you don't find
    first rate CCDS, only "utility grade" sensors. Also, colour work done
    with scientific CCDs is tri-colour using three exposures via red,
    green and blue filters and then combining them, which yields much
    better colour than a consumer camera is capable of.
    Dalsa has changed it's tune in the recent because CMOS has matured as
    a fairly good sensor technology and both they and Kodak have purchased
    companies that specialized in CMOS production.
    -Rich


    "Bittorrents are REFUNDS for all the BAD movie products Hollywood
    never gave us refunds for in the past"
     
    RichA, Aug 29, 2005
    #11
  12. J. Davidson

    Pete D Guest

    "Bart van der Wolf" <> wrote in message
    news:4312424e$0$11063$4all.nl...
    >
    > "J. Davidson" <> wrote in message
    > news:9LpQe.13817$A%...
    > SNIP
    >> I am wondering why they are only installed in DSLR camera on one end and
    >> in toy cameras in the other end. Nothing between. With all the hype they
    >> made few years ago about CMOS sensor being less expansive to manufacture,
    >> it is (to me) a bit of a mistery why they don't use them in mid-range
    >> camera (about $150 to $300).

    >
    > It seems that mostly Canon has achieved a sofar un-precedented quality
    > leap in sensor design/quality control in CMOS devices in larger sizes. It
    > probably has to do with them being largely in control of their own sensor
    > production (they manufacture the chip producing equipment in-house as
    > well). Canon is also one of the largest patent producing investors in
    > Research and Development for digital photography. Others will follow
    > (maybe at a distance), no doubt.
    >
    > Bart


    Now if they can just work on their reliability.
     
    Pete D, Aug 29, 2005
    #12
  13. "Pete D" <> wrote in message
    news:R%yQe.14219$...
    SNIP
    > Now if they can just work on their reliability.


    You mean the sensor is not reliable, or do you mean there are
    occasional issues with the complete system? Given the huge numbers of
    cameras sold (and their complexity), I'd view user issues (including
    user error) with the system in the context of the large quantities.
    Still it's better to have no issues at all, but then I very rarely (if
    ever, depending on model) have one.

    Bart
     
    Bart van der Wolf, Aug 29, 2005
    #13
  14. J. Davidson

    SleeperMan Guest

    John A. Stovall wrote:
    > On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 22:10:16 +0200, "SleeperMan"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> GTO wrote:
    >>> What do you call a "mid-range" camera? Is a DSLR a mid-range camera?
    >>> If yes, see Canon's 350D. If no, the small size of the image sensor
    >>> makes CCDs price competitive. In this case, why would you want to
    >>> use a CMOS sensor instead?
    >>> Gregor
    >>>

    >>
    >> Hm...maybe for same reason i looked on SLR's just before i bought
    >> S2...larger sensor, lower noise, better overall picture quality.
    >> But, price decided for me...so i went for S2 and i'm quite happy.
    >> SLR....maybe....one in the future...
    >>

    >
    > Not necessarily the case.
    >
    > CMOS and CCD compared.
    >
    > http://www.dalsa.com/markets/ccd_vs_cmos.asp
    >
    > http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question362.htm
    >
    > CMOS is cheaper to make and takes less power but CCD will produce the
    > better image.
    >
    >

    this conversation has just been made, while agruments are still not cleared,
    so i won't say no more...
     
    SleeperMan, Aug 29, 2005
    #14
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