Clear hangs up - & hangs up - & hangs up

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Sue Bilstein, Mar 1, 2004.

  1. Sue Bilstein

    Sue Bilstein Guest

    I have 80 hours left this month on a 150-hour plan with Clear, but I'm about
    to go back to flat rate with xtra, out of pure desperation over disconnects.

    I've been working from home several days a week over a VPN. Clear drops me
    every hour on average. Often after one drop I get 2-3 more at intervals of
    a few minutes - just long enough to sign in with two passwords each time.

    I've had Telecom check the line - it tested out within specs. I've had the
    modem checked - it's OK. I've limited the modem to 33,600 - that made no
    difference.

    I've gone back to xtra for a couple of days. Still got dropped, but every
    three hours on average - that's one-third the aggravation.

    A service person at Clear claimed that the problem was my line (despite the
    test results). He said that the longer the route to the server, the more
    likely a marginal line is to disconnect. He said Telecom ensure that the
    other ISPs always have longer routes to dial than xtra does.

    Does anybody have a view on my problem or the Clear guy's theory?
     
    Sue Bilstein, Mar 1, 2004
    #1
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  2. Sue Bilstein

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "Sue Bilstein" <> wrote in message
    news:4042dacd$...
    > I have 80 hours left this month on a 150-hour plan with Clear, but I'm

    about
    > to go back to flat rate with xtra, out of pure desperation over

    disconnects.
    >
    > I've been working from home several days a week over a VPN. Clear drops

    me
    > every hour on average. Often after one drop I get 2-3 more at intervals

    of
    > a few minutes - just long enough to sign in with two passwords each time.
    >
    > I've had Telecom check the line - it tested out within specs. I've had

    the
    > modem checked - it's OK. I've limited the modem to 33,600 - that made no
    > difference.
    >
    > I've gone back to xtra for a couple of days. Still got dropped, but every
    > three hours on average - that's one-third the aggravation.
    >
    > A service person at Clear claimed that the problem was my line (despite

    the
    > test results). He said that the longer the route to the server, the more
    > likely a marginal line is to disconnect. He said Telecom ensure that the
    > other ISPs always have longer routes to dial than xtra does.
    >
    > Does anybody have a view on my problem or the Clear guy's theory?


    Slingshot is good. The only complaint is that the newsgroup service could
    be better, but they still useable despite being in sloow motion mode at
    times. Speed and connection is good, compares well to ihug but for a lot
    less.

    Was the guy at Clear trying to get a job at Xtra instead of trying to help
    you? You'll be putting in a good word for him?
    LOL

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Mar 1, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Sue Bilstein

    Enkidu Guest

    On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:39:28 +1300, "Sue Bilstein"
    <> wrote:
    >
    >A service person at Clear claimed that the problem was my line (despite the
    >test results). He said that the longer the route to the server, the more
    >likely a marginal line is to disconnect. He said Telecom ensure that the
    >other ISPs always have longer routes to dial than xtra does.
    >
    >Does anybody have a view on my problem or the Clear guy's theory?
    >

    Do you have a Telecom phone line? If so,that is a load of rubbish.
    It's the distance to the exchange that matters, mostly.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
     
    Enkidu, Mar 1, 2004
    #3

  4. >I've gone back to xtra for a couple of days. Still got dropped, but every
    >three hours on average - that's one-third the aggravation.
    >

    This may indicate line problems, or that ISP's just drop connections
    to clear the lines.
    Im with Clear, the must have a few dodgy modems , every now & then I
    get a very unreliable connection. So I wait 5 minutes (for someone that modem
    ) then get a reliable connect ( I assume on a different GOOD modem at their
    end)

    ISPs will NEVER admit they have a problem. (problems often solved by switching
    ISP's)
     
    Steve Robertson, Mar 1, 2004
    #4
  5. Sue Bilstein

    Tick Tock Guest

    On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:39:28 +1300, "Sue Bilstein" <>
    wrote:

    >I have 80 hours left this month on a 150-hour plan with Clear, but I'm about
    >to go back to flat rate with xtra, out of pure desperation over disconnects.
    >
    >I've been working from home several days a week over a VPN. Clear drops me
    >every hour on average. Often after one drop I get 2-3 more at intervals of
    >a few minutes - just long enough to sign in with two passwords each time.
    >
    >I've had Telecom check the line - it tested out within specs. I've had the
    >modem checked - it's OK. I've limited the modem to 33,600 - that made no
    >difference.
    >
    >I've gone back to xtra for a couple of days. Still got dropped, but every
    >three hours on average - that's one-third the aggravation.
    >
    >A service person at Clear claimed that the problem was my line (despite the
    >test results). He said that the longer the route to the server, the more
    >likely a marginal line is to disconnect. He said Telecom ensure that the
    >other ISPs always have longer routes to dial than xtra does.
    >
    >Does anybody have a view on my problem or the Clear guy's theory?
    >




    Yes get a Decent Modem like a 3COM one, also check what else is one the phone
    line..

    I have problem with my Fax on the same line even with a good modem..



    Better Modems can handle random noise & impulse noise..


    Mind you I did have a problem once with Random Impulse noise, I could hear it
    on the phone, reported the problem to Telecom and after some days they could
    not find a fault, but I was still getting it, but one day the Supervisor rang
    up, and then the noise happen to start, they replaced the cable pair to my
    house the problem went away..

    I don't think the ISP has any thing to do with this problem..
     
    Tick Tock, Mar 1, 2004
    #5
  6. Sue Bilstein

    samg Guest

    "Sue Bilstein" <> wrote in
    news:4042dacd$:

    > I have 80 hours left this month on a 150-hour plan with Clear, but I'm
    > about to go back to flat rate with xtra, out of pure desperation over
    > disconnects.
    >
    > I've been working from home several days a week over a VPN. Clear
    > drops me every hour on average. Often after one drop I get 2-3 more
    > at intervals of a few minutes - just long enough to sign in with two
    > passwords each time.
    >
    > I've had Telecom check the line - it tested out within specs. I've
    > had the modem checked - it's OK. I've limited the modem to 33,600 -
    > that made no difference.
    >
    > I've gone back to xtra for a couple of days. Still got dropped, but
    > every three hours on average - that's one-third the aggravation.
    >




    hmmm sounds like you do have a line problem with it dropping off on xtra as
    well, even though it works better for you than clear. Are you rural? Im on
    clearnet dialup in Hamilton and I stay connected for days on end.
     
    samg, Mar 1, 2004
    #6
  7. Sue Bilstein

    Gene Guest

    Also have your modem checked. I had a brand new modem causing random
    disconnects replaced and is working fine now.


    "Sue Bilstein" <> wrote in message
    news:4042dacd$...
    > I have 80 hours left this month on a 150-hour plan with Clear, but I'm

    about
    > to go back to flat rate with xtra, out of pure desperation over

    disconnects.
    >
    > I've been working from home several days a week over a VPN. Clear drops

    me
    > every hour on average. Often after one drop I get 2-3 more at intervals

    of
    > a few minutes - just long enough to sign in with two passwords each time.
    >
    > I've had Telecom check the line - it tested out within specs. I've had

    the
    > modem checked - it's OK. I've limited the modem to 33,600 - that made no
    > difference.
    >
    > I've gone back to xtra for a couple of days. Still got dropped, but every
    > three hours on average - that's one-third the aggravation.
    >
    > A service person at Clear claimed that the problem was my line (despite

    the
    > test results). He said that the longer the route to the server, the more
    > likely a marginal line is to disconnect. He said Telecom ensure that the
    > other ISPs always have longer routes to dial than xtra does.
    >
    > Does anybody have a view on my problem or the Clear guy's theory?
    >
    >
     
    Gene, Mar 1, 2004
    #7
  8. Sue Bilstein

    Sue Bilstein Guest

    "samg" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns949FE1E328B04samg@203.97.37.6...
    >
    > hmmm sounds like you do have a line problem with it dropping off on xtra

    as
    > well, even though it works better for you than clear. Are you rural? Im

    on
    > clearnet dialup in Hamilton and I stay connected for days on end.


    I'm in Maraetai, which is a village c. 20 km southeast of Howick. The phone
    lines to Maraetai are fibre-optic cable - which is why we can't use ADSL.
    The Telecom guy who came to check the line said they won't handle more than
    34,000 baud, which is why I limited the modem to 33,600.
     
    Sue Bilstein, Mar 2, 2004
    #8
  9. Sue Bilstein

    Sue Bilstein Guest

    "Gene" <evisser((at))clear.co.nz> wrote in message
    news:4043aced$...
    > Also have your modem checked. I had a brand new modem causing random
    > disconnects replaced and is working fine now.
    >
    > "Sue Bilstein" <> wrote in message
    > news:4042dacd$...

    ....> >
    > > I've had Telecom check the line - it tested out within specs. I've had

    > the
    > > modem checked - it's OK. I've limited the modem to 33,600 - that made

    no
    > > difference.
     
    Sue Bilstein, Mar 2, 2004
    #9
  10. Sue Bilstein

    pete Guest

    On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:10:18 +1300, Tick Tock wrote:

    > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:39:28 +1300, "Sue Bilstein" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>I have 80 hours left this month on a 150-hour plan with Clear, but I'm about
    >>to go back to flat rate with xtra, out of pure desperation over disconnects.
    >>
    >>I've been working from home several days a week over a VPN. Clear drops me
    >>every hour on average. Often after one drop I get 2-3 more at intervals of
    >>a few minutes - just long enough to sign in with two passwords each time.
    >>
    >>I've had Telecom check the line - it tested out within specs. I've had the
    >>modem checked - it's OK. I've limited the modem to 33,600 - that made no
    >>difference.
    >>
    >>I've gone back to xtra for a couple of days. Still got dropped, but every
    >>three hours on average - that's one-third the aggravation.
    >>
    >>A service person at Clear claimed that the problem was my line (despite the
    >>test results). He said that the longer the route to the server, the more
    >>likely a marginal line is to disconnect. He said Telecom ensure that the
    >>other ISPs always have longer routes to dial than xtra does.
    >>
    >>Does anybody have a view on my problem or the Clear guy's theory?
    >>

    >
    > Yes get a Decent Modem like a 3COM one, also check what else is one the phone
    > line..
    >
    > I have problem with my Fax on the same line even with a good modem..
    >
    > Better Modems can handle random noise & impulse noise..
    >
    > Mind you I did have a problem once with Random Impulse noise, I could hear it
    > on the phone, reported the problem to Telecom and after some days they could
    > not find a fault, but I was still getting it, but one day the Supervisor rang
    > up, and then the noise happen to start, they replaced the cable pair to my
    > house the problem went away..
    >
    > I don't think the ISP has any thing to do with this problem..


    Random Impulse Noise = A Woger post
     
    pete, Mar 2, 2004
    #10
  11. Sue Bilstein

    scuuby Guest

    On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:39:28 +1300,
    Sue Bilstein <> wrote:

    <snip> out of pure desperation over disconnects.

    Hi Sue, like you I live in rural auckland
    and telecoms "bad lines" are a pain in the
    ass and the dickheads at telecom or their
    service agents seem to stupid to get them
    sorted out so i gave up asking in the end
    as it was wasting my bloody time with the
    pricks...

    my somewhat roundabout solution was to
    "de-rate" my modem to work as a v34 unit.

    this effectively tells the modem to
    operate at a slower speed and attempts to
    stop it from trying to "retrain" everytime
    a line is noisy and interfering..

    there are seral ways to try this depending
    on your make/model of modem as follows...

    +MS=V34,0,2400,33600,2400,33600;
    works for me on my Cnet model-ch5614cn-c

    S32=98 usually works for a USR/3Com unit
    ie: Sportster or Courier

    +MS=11,0,1200,33600
    or
    -V90=0
    may work for other modems of different makes

    The procedure I used under win98 was...
    Control Panel -> Modems ->
    under the general tab select your modem
    then click "properties"
    then "Connection" tab
    then "advanced" button
    in the "extra settings" text box
    copy and paste one of the code lines above
    and click ok and try a dailup and see if it
    works for you, if not try another until
    you achieve a discernable improvement.

    let me know if it helps...
    its made a HUUUUUGE difference for me

    scoobs.













    =================================

    remove nospam4 from return email to reply
    =================================
     
    scuuby, Mar 2, 2004
    #11
  12. Sue Bilstein

    Sue Bilstein Guest

    "scuuby" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:39:28 +1300,
    > Sue Bilstein <> wrote:
    >
    > <snip> out of pure desperation over disconnects.
    >
    > Hi Sue, like you I live in rural auckland
    > and telecoms "bad lines" are a pain in the
    > ass and the dickheads at telecom or their
    > service agents seem to stupid to get them
    > sorted out so i gave up asking in the end
    > as it was wasting my bloody time with the
    > pricks...
    >
    > my somewhat roundabout solution was to
    > "de-rate" my modem to work as a v34 unit.
    >
    > this effectively tells the modem to
    > operate at a slower speed and attempts to
    > stop it from trying to "retrain" everytime
    > a line is noisy and interfering..
    >


    Thanks Scuuby, but ...
    > "Sue Bilstein" <> wrote in message
    > news:4042dacd$...

    ....> >
    > > I've had Telecom check the line - it tested out within specs. I've had

    > the
    > > modem checked - it's OK. I've limited the modem to 33,600 - that made

    no
    > > difference.
     
    Sue Bilstein, Mar 3, 2004
    #12
  13. Sue Bilstein

    scuuby Guest

    On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:45:27 +1300,
    Sue Bilstein <> wrote:


    > Thanks Scuuby, but ...
    >> > I've had Telecom check the line

    >> - it tested out within specs.

    what they say is mostly irrellevant
    as they have a habit of bullshitting
    or misleading you to extremes

    >> had the modem checked - it's OK.

    how?

    >> I've limited the modem to 33,600
    >> - that made no difference.

    how did you achieve this?, as simply
    limiting its speed as opposed to
    changing the way it negotiates and
    maintains it connection are two
    COMPLETELY different and opposing
    things... ie if i limit my modem
    instead of forcing it into v34 mode
    it make no difference at all, if
    i force it into v34 it make a
    monumental difference !!!!!

    so my question to you is
    - HOW did you limit it ??????
    also tell me what make model etc
    your modem is i might be able to
    send you the correct method of
    forcing v34 on it.

    scoobs

    =================================

    remove nospam4 from return email to reply
    =================================
     
    scuuby, Mar 3, 2004
    #13
  14. On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:39:28 +1300, Sue Bilstein wrote:

    > I've had Telecom check the line - it tested out within specs. I've had the
    > modem checked - it's OK. I've limited the modem to 33,600 - that made no
    > difference.
    >
    > I've gone back to xtra for a couple of days. Still got dropped, but every
    > three hours on average - that's one-third the aggravation.


    Telecom run their Xtra modems 3.5dB louder than is legal.

    That's not much, but it solves many disconnect problems on longer lines.

    On the flip side it's illegal (violates telepermits) and causes users on
    short lines to suffer disconnects caused by the signal being too loud and
    being distorted (modems have a sweet spot, incoming-signal wise and
    optimal conditions are at one edge of it. Too loud is as bad as too quiet)

    Users on 56k don't see it because part of the negotiation results in
    over-loud transmitters being backed off. The symptom is usually blamed on
    an unreliable old 33k6 or 14k4 modem (it's not, just overloaded) that got
    solves whena new 56k modem was installed.
     
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Mar 3, 2004
    #14
  15. On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:47:29 +0000, Steve Robertson wrote:

    > Im with Clear, the must have a few dodgy modems , every now & then I
    > get a very unreliable connection. So I wait 5 minutes (for someone that modem
    > ) then get a reliable connect ( I assume on a different GOOD modem at their
    > end)


    The way Clear's lines are setup the only way you'd get the same modem
    repeatedly is if that modem pool is full and it's the last one available.
     
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Mar 3, 2004
    #15
  16. Sue Bilstein

    colinco Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Telecom run their Xtra modems 3.5dB louder than is legal.
    >

    Ignoring the fact that Telepermit specs don't apply to network
    equipment, what dBm do they output?
     
    colinco, Mar 3, 2004
    #16
  17. Sue Bilstein

    Tick Tock Guest

    On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 07:38:55 +1300, colinco <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > says...
    >> Telecom run their Xtra modems 3.5dB louder than is legal.
    >>

    >Ignoring the fact that Telepermit specs don't apply to network
    >equipment, what dBm do they output?




    -13dbm
     
    Tick Tock, Mar 3, 2004
    #17
  18. Sue Bilstein

    Warwick Guest

    On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:59:44 +1300, scuuby wrote:

    > On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:45:27 +1300,
    > Sue Bilstein <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Thanks Scuuby, but ...
    >>> > I've had Telecom check the line
    >>> - it tested out within specs.

    > what they say is mostly irrellevant
    > as they have a habit of bullshitting
    > or misleading you to extremes
    >
    >>> had the modem checked - it's OK.

    > how?
    >
    >>> I've limited the modem to 33,600
    >>> - that made no difference.

    > how did you achieve this?, as simply
    > limiting its speed as opposed to
    > changing the way it negotiates and
    > maintains it connection are two
    > COMPLETELY different and opposing
    > things... ie if i limit my modem
    > instead of forcing it into v34 mode
    > it make no difference at all, if
    > i force it into v34 it make a
    > monumental difference !!!!!
    >
    > so my question to you is
    > - HOW did you limit it ??????
    > also tell me what make model etc
    > your modem is i might be able to
    > send you the correct method of
    > forcing v34 on it.
    >
    > scoobs
    >
    > =================================
    >
    > remove nospam4 from return email to reply
    > =================================


    I was put thru this by xtra techs.
    Personally I think its bs if you have a v.92 modem.
    It negotiates its own speed when you open a connection.
     
    Warwick, Mar 3, 2004
    #18
  19. Sue Bilstein

    Warwick Guest

    On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:23:14 +0100, Uncle StoatWarbler wrote:

    > On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 19:39:28 +1300, Sue Bilstein wrote:
    >
    >> I've had Telecom check the line - it tested out within specs. I've had the
    >> modem checked - it's OK. I've limited the modem to 33,600 - that made no
    >> difference.
    >>
    >> I've gone back to xtra for a couple of days. Still got dropped, but every
    >> three hours on average - that's one-third the aggravation.

    >
    > Telecom run their Xtra modems 3.5dB louder than is legal.
    >
    > That's not much, but it solves many disconnect problems on longer lines.
    >
    > On the flip side it's illegal (violates telepermits) and causes users on
    > short lines to suffer disconnects caused by the signal being too loud and
    > being distorted (modems have a sweet spot, incoming-signal wise and
    > optimal conditions are at one edge of it. Too loud is as bad as too quiet)
    >
    > Users on 56k don't see it because part of the negotiation results in
    > over-loud transmitters being backed off. The symptom is usually blamed on
    > an unreliable old 33k6 or 14k4 modem (it's not, just overloaded) that got
    > solves whena new 56k modem was installed.


    My connection used to drop even more frequently than Sue's does now.
    I spent 4 weeks running traces and emailing them the results.

    Finally I was told I was too close to the exchange, < 2 km.
    XTRA (NOT telecom) sent me a line suppressor (I believe it adjusts line
    capacitance) and it has been good as gold ever since.
     
    Warwick, Mar 3, 2004
    #19
  20. Sue Bilstein

    Warwick Guest

    On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:39:28 +1300, Sue Bilstein wrote:

    > I have 80 hours left this month on a 150-hour plan with Clear, but I'm about
    > to go back to flat rate with xtra, out of pure desperation over disconnects.
    >
    > I've been working from home several days a week over a VPN. Clear drops me
    > every hour on average. Often after one drop I get 2-3 more at intervals of
    > a few minutes - just long enough to sign in with two passwords each time.
    >
    > I've had Telecom check the line - it tested out within specs. I've had the
    > modem checked - it's OK. I've limited the modem to 33,600 - that made no
    > difference.
    >
    > I've gone back to xtra for a couple of days. Still got dropped, but every
    > three hours on average - that's one-third the aggravation.
    >
    > A service person at Clear claimed that the problem was my line (despite the
    > test results). He said that the longer the route to the server, the more
    > likely a marginal line is to disconnect. He said Telecom ensure that the
    > other ISPs always have longer routes to dial than xtra does.
    >
    > Does anybody have a view on my problem or the Clear guy's theory?


    Sue I would run traces to any destination and observe the behaviour and lag
    over the first few nodes.
    I did this and emailed copies to my ISP until they finally acted.
    I pointed out that I am not getting the service I paid for and the traces
    give a clear indication that the problem lies with them and not me.

    If you need some help logging the poor performance with tracert so you can
    prove to your ISP how apalling the service is say the word and I'll show
    you how to use native dos tools to do this, or point you to some online
    tools that will do it for you. (visroute is a good one).

    best
    Warwick
     
    Warwick, Mar 3, 2004
    #20
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