Cisco 877(W) on a BT A-DSL line

Discussion in 'Cisco' started by Matthias Scheler, Nov 4, 2006.

  1. Hello,

    my attempt to migrate a BT A-DSL line (using the Max service) from a
    Linksys ADSL2MUE to a Cisco 877W today were not every succesful. The
    configuration of the Cisco worked in general:
    - The A-DSL link was established at the expected speed.
    - The PPP session was established and the Cisco got the correct
    IPv4 address assigned.
    - IPv4 and IPv6 routing worked fine.

    There were however problems:
    1.) A lot of noise on the phone line.
    2.) The Cisco kept reconnectiong every few minutes after a not very
    help error message like this:

    %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface ATM0, changed state to down

    The configuration for the A-DSL interface looks like this:

    interface ATM0
    no ip address
    ip access-group 101 in
    no atm ilmi-keepalive
    pvc 0/38
    encapsulation aal5mux ppp dialer
    dialer pool-member 1
    !
    dsl operating-mode auto
    !

    interface Dialer0
    ip address negotiated
    ip virtual-reassembly
    encapsulation ppp
    dialer pool 1
    dialer-group 1
    ipv6 address autoconfig
    ipv6 enable
    no cdp enable
    ppp authentication chap callin
    ppp chap hostname ***
    ppp chap password 0 ***
    !

    Is there a way to force the Cisco to ADSL1 and not try ADSL2 or ADSL2+?
    I wonder whether my microfilter can't deal with that very well.

    Kind regards

    --
    Matthias Scheler http://zhadum.org.uk/
     
    Matthias Scheler, Nov 4, 2006
    #1
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  2. Matthias Scheler

    Luc Guest

    Matthias Scheler wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > my attempt to migrate a BT A-DSL line (using the Max service) from a
    > Linksys ADSL2MUE to a Cisco 877W today were not every succesful. The
    > configuration of the Cisco worked in general:
    > - The A-DSL link was established at the expected speed.
    > - The PPP session was established and the Cisco got the correct
    > IPv4 address assigned.
    > - IPv4 and IPv6 routing worked fine.
    >
    > There were however problems:
    > 1.) A lot of noise on the phone line.
    > 2.) The Cisco kept reconnectiong every few minutes after a not very
    > help error message like this:
    >
    > %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface ATM0, changed state to down
    >
    > The configuration for the A-DSL interface looks like this:
    >
    > interface ATM0
    > no ip address
    > ip access-group 101 in
    > no atm ilmi-keepalive
    > pvc 0/38
    > encapsulation aal5mux ppp dialer
    > dialer pool-member 1
    > !
    > dsl operating-mode auto
    > !
    >
    > interface Dialer0
    > ip address negotiated
    > ip virtual-reassembly
    > encapsulation ppp
    > dialer pool 1
    > dialer-group 1
    > ipv6 address autoconfig
    > ipv6 enable
    > no cdp enable
    > ppp authentication chap callin
    > ppp chap hostname ***
    > ppp chap password 0 ***
    > !
    >
    > Is there a way to force the Cisco to ADSL1 and not try ADSL2 or ADSL2+?
    > I wonder whether my microfilter can't deal with that very well.
    >
    > Kind regards
    >


    Hello,

    dependant on your ios and/or router :

    dsl operating-mode ?

    adsl2 adsl2 mode
    adsl2+ adsl2+ mode
    ansi-dmt ANSI full rate mode <<<<<<<<<<<<< try this for ADSL "1"
    auto auto detect mode
    itu-dmt ITU full rate mode <<<<<<<<<<<<< or that

    Regards,

    --
    Luc
     
    Luc, Nov 4, 2006
    #2
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  3. Matthias Scheler

    jamie Guest

    In addition to Luc's comments I have seen this happen on 877 with IOS
    12(1) - I think the Cisco website says you need 12(3) onwards to support
    ADSL2 etc...is your IOS the latest?

    J

    "Luc" <> wrote in message
    news:eiilu3$2dsr$...
    > Matthias Scheler wrote:
    >> Hello,
    >>
    >> my attempt to migrate a BT A-DSL line (using the Max service) from a
    >> Linksys ADSL2MUE to a Cisco 877W today were not every succesful. The
    >> configuration of the Cisco worked in general:
    >> - The A-DSL link was established at the expected speed.
    >> - The PPP session was established and the Cisco got the correct
    >> IPv4 address assigned.
    >> - IPv4 and IPv6 routing worked fine.
    >>
    >> There were however problems:
    >> 1.) A lot of noise on the phone line.
    >> 2.) The Cisco kept reconnectiong every few minutes after a not very
    >> help error message like this:
    >>
    >> %LINK-3-UPDOWN: Interface ATM0, changed state to down
    >>
    >> The configuration for the A-DSL interface looks like this:
    >>
    >> interface ATM0
    >> no ip address
    >> ip access-group 101 in
    >> no atm ilmi-keepalive
    >> pvc 0/38 encapsulation aal5mux ppp dialer
    >> dialer pool-member 1
    >> !
    >> dsl operating-mode auto !
    >>
    >> interface Dialer0
    >> ip address negotiated
    >> ip virtual-reassembly
    >> encapsulation ppp
    >> dialer pool 1
    >> dialer-group 1
    >> ipv6 address autoconfig
    >> ipv6 enable
    >> no cdp enable
    >> ppp authentication chap callin
    >> ppp chap hostname ***
    >> ppp chap password 0 ***
    >> !
    >>
    >> Is there a way to force the Cisco to ADSL1 and not try ADSL2 or ADSL2+?
    >> I wonder whether my microfilter can't deal with that very well.
    >>
    >> Kind regards
    >>

    >
    > Hello,
    >
    > dependant on your ios and/or router :
    >
    > dsl operating-mode ?
    >
    > adsl2 adsl2 mode
    > adsl2+ adsl2+ mode
    > ansi-dmt ANSI full rate mode <<<<<<<<<<<<< try this for ADSL "1"
    > auto auto detect mode
    > itu-dmt ITU full rate mode <<<<<<<<<<<<< or that
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > --
    > Luc
     
    jamie, Nov 4, 2006
    #3
  4. In article <de287$454cf8f8$53d9a63f$>,
    "jamie" <> writes:
    > In addition to Luc's comments I have seen this happen on 877 with IOS
    > 12(1) - I think the Cisco website says you need 12(3) onwards to support
    > ADSL2 etc...


    I don't need ADSL2+ yet. My line is only ADSL1. I'm just wondering whether
    the ADSL2+ support in the hard- and software cause my stability problems.

    > is your IOS the latest?


    It's pretty new:

    Cisco IOS Software, C870 Software (C870-ADVIPSERVICESK9-M), Version 12.4(9)T1, RELEASE SOFTWARE (fc2)

    Kind regards

    --
    Matthias Scheler http://zhadum.org.uk/
     
    Matthias Scheler, Nov 4, 2006
    #4
  5. Matthias Scheler

    Luc Guest

    Matthias Scheler wrote:

    > I'm just wondering whether
    > the ADSL2+ support in the hard- and software cause my stability problems.



    yes, I have seen this symptom on low-quality PSTN line. Please send to
    us the result of 'sh dsl interface atm0' ........

    Best regards,

    --
    Luc
     
    Luc, Nov 4, 2006
    #5
  6. In article <eij2f9$2jqk$>,
    Luc <> writes:
    > yes, I have seen this symptom on low-quality PSTN line.


    Considering the fact that it's 15m to the exchange and that my previous
    router (Netgear DG834G), my current modem (Linksys ADSL2MUE) and the
    Cisco 877W all connect at the maximum speed that BT's Max DSL can provide
    I don't think my line qualifies as a low-quality PSTN line.

    > Please send to us the result of 'sh dsl interface atm0' ........


    Because I'm not using the Cisco at the moment I'm not sure whether the
    output is accurate:

    jumpgate#show dsl int atm0
    ATM0
    Alcatel 20190 chipset information
    Line not activated: displaying cached data from last activation
    ATU-R (DS) ATU-C (US)
    Modem Status: Showtime (DMTDSL_STOP)
    DSL Mode: ITU G.992.1 (G.DMT) Annex A
    ITU STD NUM: 0x03 0x1
    Vendor ID: 'STMI' 'ALCB'
    Vendor Specific: 0x0000 0x0000
    Vendor Country: 0x0F 0x0F
    Capacity Used: 82% 99%
    Noise Margin: 1.0 dB 5.0 dB
    Output Power: 16.5 dBm 12.0 dBm
    Attenuation: 10.0 dB 4.0 dB
    Defect Status: LCDf LOS LOF LCDf
    Last Fail Code: None
    Watchdog Counter: 0x7D
    Watchdog Resets: 0

    Selftest Result: 0x00
    Subfunction: 0x00
    Interrupts: 15357 (0 spurious)
    PHY Access Err: 0
    Activations: 8
    LED Status: OFF
    LED On Time: 100
    LED Off Time: 100
    Init FW: embedded
    Operation FW: embedded
    FW Version: 2.5.42

    Interleave Fast Interleave Fast
    Speed (kbps): 0 8128 0 832
    Cells: 0 118 0 64884
    Reed-Solomon EC: 0 0 174 187
    CRC Errors: 0 1797 286 1096
    Header Errors: 0 1428 291 743
    Total BER: 0E-0 0E-0
    Leakage Avarage BER: 0E-0 2E-0

    Kind regards

    --
    Matthias Scheler http://zhadum.org.uk/
     
    Matthias Scheler, Nov 4, 2006
    #6
  7. Matthias Scheler

    user Guest

    "Matthias Scheler" <> wrote in message
    news:454d258d$0$632$...
    > In article <eij2f9$2jqk$>,
    > Luc <> writes:
    >> yes, I have seen this symptom on low-quality PSTN line.

    >
    > Considering the fact that it's 15m to the exchange and that my previous
    > router (Netgear DG834G), my current modem (Linksys ADSL2MUE) and the
    > Cisco 877W all connect at the maximum speed that BT's Max DSL can provide
    > I don't think my line qualifies as a low-quality PSTN line.
    >
    >> Please send to us the result of 'sh dsl interface atm0' ........

    >
    > Because I'm not using the Cisco at the moment I'm not sure whether the
    > output is accurate:
    >
    > jumpgate#show dsl int atm0
    > ATM0
    > Alcatel 20190 chipset information
    > Line not activated: displaying cached data from last activation
    > ATU-R (DS) ATU-C (US)
    > Modem Status: Showtime (DMTDSL_STOP)
    > DSL Mode: ITU G.992.1 (G.DMT) Annex A
    > ITU STD NUM: 0x03 0x1
    > Vendor ID: 'STMI' 'ALCB'
    > Vendor Specific: 0x0000 0x0000
    > Vendor Country: 0x0F 0x0F
    > Capacity Used: 82% 99%
    > Noise Margin: 1.0 dB 5.0 dB
    > Output Power: 16.5 dBm 12.0 dBm
    > Attenuation: 10.0 dB 4.0 dB
    > Defect Status: LCDf LOS LOF LCDf
    > Last Fail Code: None
    > Watchdog Counter: 0x7D
    > Watchdog Resets: 0
    >
    > Selftest Result: 0x00
    > Subfunction: 0x00
    > Interrupts: 15357 (0 spurious)
    > PHY Access Err: 0
    > Activations: 8
    > LED Status: OFF
    > LED On Time: 100
    > LED Off Time: 100
    > Init FW: embedded
    > Operation FW: embedded
    > FW Version: 2.5.42
    >
    > Interleave Fast Interleave
    > Fast
    > Speed (kbps): 0 8128 0
    > 832
    > Cells: 0 118 0
    > 64884
    > Reed-Solomon EC: 0 0 174
    > 187
    > CRC Errors: 0 1797 286
    > 1096
    > Header Errors: 0 1428 291
    > 743
    > Total BER: 0E-0 0E-0
    > Leakage Avarage BER: 0E-0 2E-0
    >
    > Kind regards
    >
    > --
    > Matthias Scheler http://zhadum.org.uk/


    The downstream noise margin @ 1.0 dB is very low and likely causing the
    disconnects. Ideally it should be around 6.0 dB at a minimum.

    The DSLAM hardware at the exchange should learn to stabilise your line over
    a period of 10 days (if I remember correctly) by automatically reducing the
    downstream syncronisation rate (you're currently running at the maximum line
    speed of 8128 kbps), which in turn will increase your downstream noise
    margin (SNR ~ Signal-to-Noise Ratio).

    If for some reason the DSLAM fails to negotiate a stable speed over time I
    believe you can contact your ISP and request a higher noise margin be
    manually specified (say, 10 dB) to force stability at the expense of maximum
    line rates.
     
    user, Nov 5, 2006
    #7
  8. In article <454da33b$0$2432$>,
    "user" <user@localhost> writes:
    > The downstream noise margin @ 1.0 dB is very low and likely causing the
    > disconnects. Ideally it should be around 6.0 dB at a minimum.


    I see. 6.0 dB is what the old Netgear DG834G reported.

    > The DSLAM hardware at the exchange should learn to stabilise your line over
    > a period of 10 days (if I remember correctly) by automatically reducing the
    > downstream syncronisation rate (you're currently running at the maximum line
    > speed of 8128 kbps), which in turn will increase your downstream noise
    > margin (SNR ~ Signal-to-Noise Ratio).


    I do *not* think it is is related to the line:
    - I have BT-Max since April this year. I never had any problems to operate
    the line at 8Mb/Sec with the Netgear DG834G or the Linksys ADSL2MUE.
    I only bought the Cisco because I wanted a router with IPv6 support
    to get rid of the seperate Unix box acting as firewall.
    - After the Cisco 877W failed to provide stable A-DSL service yesterday
    I switch back to the Linksys ADSL2MUE. It connected at 8Mb/Sec
    immediately and hasn't lost the connection since. I've even run "ping"
    at a 5 second interval against my ISP's "ping server" overnight. It
    didn't lose a single packet.

    So whatever causes the problem is related to the Cisco. My best guess
    that it is somehow not working well with both microfilters I tried.

    I must say that I'm somewhat disappointed that a "high-end DSL router"
    obviously struggles to provide the same quality of service as a ten
    times cheaper DSL modem.

    Kind regards

    --
    Matthias Scheler http://zhadum.org.uk/
     
    Matthias Scheler, Nov 5, 2006
    #8
  9. Matthias Scheler

    Guest

    Matthias Scheler wrote:
    > In article <454da33b$0$2432$>,
    > "user" <user@localhost> writes:
    > > The downstream noise margin @ 1.0 dB is very low and likely causing the
    > > disconnects. Ideally it should be around 6.0 dB at a minimum.

    >
    > I see. 6.0 dB is what the old Netgear DG834G reported.
    >
    > > The DSLAM hardware at the exchange should learn to stabilise your line over
    > > a period of 10 days (if I remember correctly) by automatically reducing the
    > > downstream syncronisation rate (you're currently running at the maximum line
    > > speed of 8128 kbps), which in turn will increase your downstream noise
    > > margin (SNR ~ Signal-to-Noise Ratio).

    >
    > I do *not* think it is is related to the line:
    > - I have BT-Max since April this year. I never had any problems to operate
    > the line at 8Mb/Sec with the Netgear DG834G or the Linksys ADSL2MUE.
    > I only bought the Cisco because I wanted a router with IPv6 support
    > to get rid of the seperate Unix box acting as firewall.
    > - After the Cisco 877W failed to provide stable A-DSL service yesterday
    > I switch back to the Linksys ADSL2MUE. It connected at 8Mb/Sec
    > immediately and hasn't lost the connection since. I've even run "ping"
    > at a 5 second interval against my ISP's "ping server" overnight. It
    > didn't lose a single packet.
    >
    > So whatever causes the problem is related to the Cisco. My best guess
    > that it is somehow not working well with both microfilters I tried.
    >
    > I must say that I'm somewhat disappointed that a "high-end DSL router"
    > obviously struggles to provide the same quality of service as a ten
    > times cheaper DSL modem.


    If you have support raise a TAC case.

    I have seen several issues with 877 and ADSL. Cisco are in fact
    publishing
    ADSL firmware updates independently of IOS.

    FW Version: 2.5.42
    The latest is something like 3.0.10 and 2.6.4 is available.
    This has been discussed in an earlier thread.

    I think that 12.4(9)T2 may be available too.

    There is clear evidence of line issues, noise margin as mentioned
    already and actual line errors.

    Interleave Fast Interleave
    Fast
    Speed (kbps): 0 8128 0
    832
    Cells: 0 118 0
    64884
    Reed-Solomon EC: 0 0 174
    187
    CRC Errors: 0 1797 286
    1096
    Header Errors: 0 1428 291
    743
    Total BER: 0E-0 0E-0
    Leakage Avarage BER: 0E-0 2E-0


    Reed-Solomon EC are a count of successful Error Correction
    events. I guess CRC and Header errors indicate cases
    that Error Correction has failed.

    I have had success by manually configuring the dsl operating mode.

    Your unit seems to be using:-
    DSL Mode: ITU G.992.1 (G.DMT) Annex A

    So set it to:-
    dsl operating mode itu.dmt


    I would try them all until I found one that worked.

    I suspect that BT usually support several different ones.


    Many parameters (incliding speed) are set at the Provider end only as
    I understand it.

    Interestingly the Downstream direction is reporting errors in both
    Interleave
    and Fast mode suggesting negotiation difficulties.

    I agree that it is odd that Cisco seem to be having trouble
    providing ADSL kit that works as well as consumer level kit seems to.

    Comments similar to yours are something that I have come
    across quite a bit recently (only with 857/877 I think) not with 837
    but they are almost obsolete now (certainly for 8M I would guess).

    Finally you can turn on the DSL training log. It produces a lot of
    output none of which makes much sense to me but you never know
    there might be a clue in there. I have read that enabling logging
    increases the time to train up.

    I deal with say 20 sites.

    877 is otherwise rather nice and I have not yet failed
    to get one going (IIRC).
     
    , Nov 5, 2006
    #9
  10. Matthias Scheler

    Guest

    You can get the latest ADSL firmware for 800 series direct from
    Cisco's FTP site:
    (you do not currently need CCO access)

    ftp://ftp.cisco.com
    PUblic, Access, 800 , DSL firmware.

    There are instructions there, but bacically rename the file to
    ADSL_ALC_20190.bin and copy it to the routers Flash & reboot.

    cheers,

    Peter.


    wrote:
    > Matthias Scheler wrote:
    > > In article <454da33b$0$2432$>,
    > > "user" <user@localhost> writes:
    > > > The downstream noise margin @ 1.0 dB is very low and likely causing the
    > > > disconnects. Ideally it should be around 6.0 dB at a minimum.

    > >
    > > I see. 6.0 dB is what the old Netgear DG834G reported.
    > >
    > > > The DSLAM hardware at the exchange should learn to stabilise your line over
    > > > a period of 10 days (if I remember correctly) by automatically reducing the
    > > > downstream syncronisation rate (you're currently running at the maximum line
    > > > speed of 8128 kbps), which in turn will increase your downstream noise
    > > > margin (SNR ~ Signal-to-Noise Ratio).

    > >
    > > I do *not* think it is is related to the line:
    > > - I have BT-Max since April this year. I never had any problems to operate
    > > the line at 8Mb/Sec with the Netgear DG834G or the Linksys ADSL2MUE.
    > > I only bought the Cisco because I wanted a router with IPv6 support
    > > to get rid of the seperate Unix box acting as firewall.
    > > - After the Cisco 877W failed to provide stable A-DSL service yesterday
    > > I switch back to the Linksys ADSL2MUE. It connected at 8Mb/Sec
    > > immediately and hasn't lost the connection since. I've even run "ping"
    > > at a 5 second interval against my ISP's "ping server" overnight. It
    > > didn't lose a single packet.
    > >
    > > So whatever causes the problem is related to the Cisco. My best guess
    > > that it is somehow not working well with both microfilters I tried.
    > >
    > > I must say that I'm somewhat disappointed that a "high-end DSL router"
    > > obviously struggles to provide the same quality of service as a ten
    > > times cheaper DSL modem.

    >
    > If you have support raise a TAC case.
    >
    > I have seen several issues with 877 and ADSL. Cisco are in fact
    > publishing
    > ADSL firmware updates independently of IOS.
    >
    > FW Version: 2.5.42
    > The latest is something like 3.0.10 and 2.6.4 is available.
    > This has been discussed in an earlier thread.
    >
    > I think that 12.4(9)T2 may be available too.
    >
    > There is clear evidence of line issues, noise margin as mentioned
    > already and actual line errors.
    >
    > Interleave Fast Interleave
    > Fast
    > Speed (kbps): 0 8128 0
    > 832
    > Cells: 0 118 0
    > 64884
    > Reed-Solomon EC: 0 0 174
    > 187
    > CRC Errors: 0 1797 286
    > 1096
    > Header Errors: 0 1428 291
    > 743
    > Total BER: 0E-0 0E-0
    > Leakage Avarage BER: 0E-0 2E-0
    >
    >
    > Reed-Solomon EC are a count of successful Error Correction
    > events. I guess CRC and Header errors indicate cases
    > that Error Correction has failed.
    >
    > I have had success by manually configuring the dsl operating mode.
    >
    > Your unit seems to be using:-
    > DSL Mode: ITU G.992.1 (G.DMT) Annex A
    >
    > So set it to:-
    > dsl operating mode itu.dmt
    >
    >
    > I would try them all until I found one that worked.
    >
    > I suspect that BT usually support several different ones.
    >
    >
    > Many parameters (incliding speed) are set at the Provider end only as
    > I understand it.
    >
    > Interestingly the Downstream direction is reporting errors in both
    > Interleave
    > and Fast mode suggesting negotiation difficulties.
    >
    > I agree that it is odd that Cisco seem to be having trouble
    > providing ADSL kit that works as well as consumer level kit seems to.
    >
    > Comments similar to yours are something that I have come
    > across quite a bit recently (only with 857/877 I think) not with 837
    > but they are almost obsolete now (certainly for 8M I would guess).
    >
    > Finally you can turn on the DSL training log. It produces a lot of
    > output none of which makes much sense to me but you never know
    > there might be a clue in there. I have read that enabling logging
    > increases the time to train up.
    >
    > I deal with say 20 sites.
    >
    > 877 is otherwise rather nice and I have not yet failed
    > to get one going (IIRC).
     
    , Nov 6, 2006
    #10
  11. In article <>,
    writes:
    > You can get the latest ADSL firmware for 800 series direct from
    > Cisco's FTP site:

    [...]

    That was a great hint. Thanks a lot! I've update the firmware for
    the ADSL modem from 2.5.42 to 3.0.1 and things look much better now:

    ATM0
    Alcatel 20190 chipset information
    ATU-R (DS) ATU-C (US)
    Modem Status: Showtime (DMTDSL_SHOWTIME)
    DSL Mode: ITU G.992.1 (G.DMT) Annex A
    [...]
    Capacity Used: 79% 97%
    Noise Margin: 11.0 dB 6.0 dB
    Output Power: 14.5 dBm 12.0 dBm
    Attenuation: 7.0 dB 4.0 dB
    [...]
    Interleave Fast Interleave Fast
    Speed (kbps): 0 8128 0 768
    Cells: 0 509117 0 1468564
    Reed-Solomon EC: 0 0 0 0
    CRC Errors: 0 8 0 0
    Header Errors: 0 0 0 0
    Total BER: 0E-0 1176E-11
    Leakage Avarage BER: 0E-0 1176E-11

    I had lots and lots of errors previously while I onlt got 8 in several
    minutes now. And there's noise on the phone line either. And network
    performance looks good, too:

    ttcp-t: 1835008 bytes in 2.19 real seconds = 819.66 KB/sec +++

    Kind regards

    --
    Matthias Scheler http://zhadum.org.uk/
     
    Matthias Scheler, Nov 6, 2006
    #11
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