Chris Jones Intrvw 64bit, demand, driver compatibility

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Jun 20, 2005.

  1. Here is a great interview with Chris Jones, Microsoft Corporate Vice
    President, Windows Core Operating System Program Management, discussing some
    of the issues and advantages of Windows XP Pro x64 and 64 bit computing,
    areas such as compatibility and vendor demand.

    http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20050617PR203.html
    --
    Andre
    Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm
    Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Jun 20, 2005
    #1
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  2. "Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Here is a great interview with Chris Jones, Microsoft Corporate Vice
    > President, Windows Core Operating System Program Management, discussing
    > some of the issues and advantages of Windows XP Pro x64 and 64 bit
    > computing, areas such as compatibility and vendor demand.
    >
    > http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20050617PR203.html
    > --


    Sorry Andre. I get this message when trying to access:

    Sorry, the page you are trying to open is available only for our
    premium (paid) members.
    - premium members, please sign in below if you wish to continue
    - new users, please register first
    Wayne Wastier, Jun 20, 2005
    #2
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  3. Andre, could you quote the highlights of this story for us on the NG?
    thanks.



    Wayne
    Wayne Wastier, Jun 20, 2005
    #3
  4. ok, I'm not a subscriber and I'm able to access it.
    Q: How is Microsoft positioning itself in the 64-bit market? Does your new
    64-bit operating systems favor any architecture over another?

    A: When we look at 64-bit, you've got x64 processors available from Intel
    and AMD that both have full 32-bit instruction set support and are extended
    for the 64-bit instruction set. Microsoft supports them both equally. At the
    very high end, you see the Itanium architecture, which fits very specific
    solutions. Microsoft doesn't favor any single approach because we believe
    that different approaches work well for different scenarios. Volume sales in
    the 64-bit market will be exclusively held by x64 systems.

    We see the shift to x64 for the server and workstation markets as being
    quite rapid. You can see from the AMD and Intel roadmaps that they are
    planning the shift to happen over the next two to three years. Consumer
    desktop and mobile PCs will move more slowly. The question for Microsoft to
    answer is where are the customers going to install 64-bit operating systems,
    and when they install the system, which applications will they use to take
    advantage of 64-bit, given that there is going to be a 32-bit compatibility
    issue cropping up for some time to come.

    On the server and workstation, that shift will be fairly rapid due to the
    substantial performance increases with databases, terminal server scenarios,
    CAD design, 3D modeling, rendering and other applications that require large
    memory support, or where floating point performance comes into play. The
    people who require those attributes will be the vanguard of the shift to
    64-bit.

    In consumer desktop and mobile PCs, it will just take time for the consumer
    to make the switch. We believe that it will be gaming and video editing that
    will prompt people to make the switch on the desktop, but these things will
    take time to reach critical mass and may need some killer solution to come
    out that makes people say "I've just got to have that!" pushing with it the
    64-bit solutions as a requirement to run the application or game.

    Q: Are the new desktop and the mobile 64-bit processors, like the newly
    released AMD Turion, prompting more people to switch to 64-bit operating
    systems?

    A: I think that the introduction of these 64-bit solutions from both AMD and
    Intel has changed the systems in terms of the processors, but the question
    remains, will a person switch to a 64-bit operating system just because they
    have a 64-bit processor, or will they just stay with a 32-bit operating
    system.

    What we really need to be asking is what application will be the catalyst
    that drives people to switch to a 64-bit operating system.

    In mobile devices, this is especially tricky because you want long battery
    life, and you're not generally running CPU-intensive or large
    memory-intensive applications and therefore, the impetus to switch to a
    64-bit operating system may be less. Over time, it will get there, of that I
    have no doubt, it is just a matter of how much time it will take.

    In workstations and servers, they've already hit the wall, they're begging
    for more processing power, larger memory and improved floating point, so
    they're ready to move to 64-bit. But for mobile applications, they're still
    asking for better instant on, longer battery life, and other functionality
    that doesn't require a 64-bit operating system.

    Q: What is Microsoft doing to answer the issues raised about 32-bit driver
    incompatibility? How will the new Microsoft operating systems support
    devices that do not have 64-bit drivers?

    In this matter, it is really no different than the switch from 16- to
    32-bit. We don't have the source code for all the drivers in the world, and
    the companies that manufacture the devices have to port their drivers to
    64-bit. Now Microsoft will do the standard things we do, and that is
    documentation, tools, training and then real incentives in terms of our logo
    programs for helping provide some momentum for vendors to provide device
    drivers that are both 32- and 64-bit compatible.

    That being said, there is no technical way for us to thunk a device driver
    in the kernel from 32-bit to 64-bit, because you really do need 64-bit
    drivers for kernel mode operations, they need to be ported, and the industry
    needs to do the work. We're doing the best that we can by supporting these
    efforts. What will really push the 64-bit device drivers is customer demand.
    The shift took a while to switch from 16- to 32-bit, and that was when the
    installed base for 16-bit was quite small relative to the growth of 32-bit
    systems. We're now at the point where the 32-bit install base is very high,
    so it will take a bit longer to make the switch to 64-bit.

    With user mode applications or devices, you can have 32-bit drivers, but
    with kernel mode drivers like those for storage devices, you need 64-bit.

    Microsoft is doing a lot of the 64-bit drivers itself, and the user can use
    our generic driver until a company like ATI or Nvidia comes out with their
    driver.

    Q: How is Microsoft handling all the legacy 32-bit software in the new
    64-bit environment? Will all legacy 32-bit programs be able to be run under
    Windows 64-bit OS?

    A: Any program that has a kernel mode component, and any program that has a
    device driver dependency are not going to run in 32-bit mode under a 64-bit
    operating system. Those types of programs will need to be ported to 64-bit.
    A lot of times, programs like media applications have assembly instructions
    in them and will very likely have to be partially if not completely ported
    to 64-bit because we can't emulate everything about the program.
    Applications that are on the edge like anti-virus software will need to be
    ported to 64-bit because it interfaces at a very low level with the system.
    Most antivirus programs have file system filters to scan for the viruses,
    and in the 64-bit system, the 32-bit file system filters will not work.

    So any program that requires third-party code to run in the kernel will not
    be able to be emulated under windows 64-bit, those programs will have to be
    ported to 64-bit. Applications that only require user mode instructions will
    run without problems under Windows 64-bit.

    Q: What have been some of the greatest challenges in regards to the switch
    from a 32-bit OS to a 64-bit OS?

    A: Beside what we've already talked about, it is the barrier to entry and
    application value balance that needs to be just right for the switch to
    happen. For the server and workstation market, where needs are fairly
    specialized, many of the applications are 64-bit capable and the performance
    of those applications is quite high, which means the value is there, and so
    the barrier to adoption is quite low because there is an incentive to
    switch.

    On the other hand, for the general-purpose consumer market, the barriers are
    much higher, because there are so many applications out there and the
    applications that are currently available for 64-bit are quite few. There
    really isn't any application that is driving the "I've just got to have
    that!" mentality, so the incentive to switch to 64-bit hasn't reached the
    same point that it has in the server and workstation market.

    It really is quite hard to support two things and this is really a question
    we're seeing posed, in that, when are we going to be able to stop supporting
    32-bit drivers and make the complete switch to 64-bit? Manufacturers and
    application developers all want this nice notion of unity, in that
    everything just falls into place and they make the switch from one to the
    other. But we see that this will not be the case, and that we're going to be
    in a world that will have both 32- and 64-bit systems for quite some time.
    And I really think that is the biggest challenge.

    Q: Would Microsoft consider having a dual-mode kernel where you could have
    one kernel for 32-bit and one for 64-bit working in parallel, passing
    instructions and system messages back and forth, and acting as one system?

    A: That's actually quite hard to have since you really can only have one
    kernel loaded at a given time, with scheduling and other system tasks that
    unless you use virtualization to get an additional benefit, but even with
    virtualization, at some level, you still have to have the devices attached
    to the system, whether they are printers or hard drives, so would that mean,
    if I was in 64-bit, I would have to translate all of the instructions to
    32-bit or vice versa? That's actually quite a complex task for us to do,
    because really, if you could just print from 32- into 64-bit, then we could
    have just loaded the 64-bit driver and that just isn't the case. And having
    two operating systems is very difficult unless you do things to make sure
    that the storage and application name space are unified. A user doesn't want
    to have two start menus, or two programs for different modes, we only want
    one program per application, and we don't want to have two folders for
    different mode documents either. So this issue of 32-bit and 64-bit working
    in the same system being serviced by the same kernel just isn't as simple as
    placing two working kernels side by side.

    Instead, what we are concentrating on is making the 64-bit system offer as
    much of the 32-bit world as is possible, and then try to get those companies
    who make applications with some sort of kernel mode requirements to port
    their programs to 64-bit.

    Q: How is Microsoft working with its partners in helping them to better
    create software to best utilize the Windows 64-bit OS?

    A: The same way we always do, we've got development kits and real deep
    technical drill downs at events like WinHEC and professional developers
    conferences, in articles on MSDN, and in web content, in chats, and in
    community groups all with the purpose of getting our user base to understand
    and better use our systems.

    Q: Microsoft has had the beta version of Windows XP professional 64-bit
    edition available for quite some time. Has the availability of this
    operating system helped to push some vendors to provide driver support? Are
    any vendors lagging behind?

    A: What really pushes vendors to provide this type of support is customer
    demand. We have had some great early wins by customers that have helped move
    this platform and we have companies like AMD and Intel who we are working
    closely with in development, as well as spending the time and money to
    promote the solutions, and this all helps to push other vendors to get in on
    the action by being seen as early adopters. However, it's really when
    customers start buying in larger volumes that you'll see a much larger base
    of developers and manufactures providing the needed support. This is just
    like any other industry, the first movers bet that this technology will take
    off, and if done right, they reap the benefits with higher margins initially
    because they can charge more, and because there are a limited amount of
    competition, and they reap the benefit in terms of brand name. The quick
    followers will then come in a short time later with a lower cost to market
    than the initial movers, but they will not reap the same margins as those
    who were first to the market because they will take time to build up
    momentum.
    --
    Andre
    Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm


    "Wayne Wastier" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Andre, could you quote the highlights of this story for us on the NG?
    > thanks.
    >
    >
    >
    > Wayne
    >
    Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Jun 20, 2005
    #4
  5. Andre Da Costa [Extended64]

    Ron Bogart Guest

    In news:,
    Andre Da Costa [Extended64] <> did some thinking and
    came up with these words:
    > Here is a great interview with Chris Jones, Microsoft Corporate Vice
    > President, Windows Core Operating System Program Management,
    > discussing some of the issues and advantages of Windows XP Pro x64
    > and 64 bit computing, areas such as compatibility and vendor demand.
    >
    > http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20050617PR203.html


    Sorry, the page you are trying to open is available only for our premium
    (paid) members

    --
    Ron Bogart {} ô¿ô¬
    Associate Expert
    Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
    Lovin life on Mercer Island 8^)
    "Life is what happens while we are making other plans."
    In memory of a true friend, MVP Alex Nichol (1935-2005)
    Ron Bogart, Jun 21, 2005
    #5
  6. Some people get it, some people don't, any way, posted the relevant stuff.
    --
    Andre
    Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com
    Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre
    http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
    FAQ for MS AntiSpy http://www.geocities.com/marfer_mvp/FAQ_MSantispy.htm

    "Ron Bogart" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In news:,
    > Andre Da Costa [Extended64] <> did some thinking and
    > came up with these words:
    >> Here is a great interview with Chris Jones, Microsoft Corporate Vice
    >> President, Windows Core Operating System Program Management,
    >> discussing some of the issues and advantages of Windows XP Pro x64
    >> and 64 bit computing, areas such as compatibility and vendor demand.
    >>
    >> http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20050617PR203.html

    >
    > Sorry, the page you are trying to open is available only for our premium
    > (paid) members
    >
    > --
    > Ron Bogart {} ô¿ô¬
    > Associate Expert
    > Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
    > Lovin life on Mercer Island 8^)
    > "Life is what happens while we are making other plans."
    > In memory of a true friend, MVP Alex Nichol (1935-2005)
    >
    Andre Da Costa [Extended64], Jun 21, 2005
    #6
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