Choice of inkjet paper

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Eatmorepies, Feb 6, 2007.

  1. Eatmorepies

    Eatmorepies Guest

    I've Googled round and round and only find adverts for various papers. So
    what do you exhibition photographers print on?

    I've tried various Epson papers but they don't look like the ones I've seen
    in the best exhibitons - neither do my photos but let's concentrate on
    paper.

    What papers do you suggest I might buy to get digital prints a step up from
    Epson Premium Glossy? (not that I want glossy in particular).

    John
    Eatmorepies, Feb 6, 2007
    #1
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  2. Eatmorepies

    ray Guest

    On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 20:55:57 +0000, Eatmorepies wrote:

    > I've Googled round and round and only find adverts for various papers. So
    > what do you exhibition photographers print on?
    >
    > I've tried various Epson papers but they don't look like the ones I've seen
    > in the best exhibitons - neither do my photos but let's concentrate on
    > paper.
    >
    > What papers do you suggest I might buy to get digital prints a step up from
    > Epson Premium Glossy? (not that I want glossy in particular).
    >
    > John


    FWIW - I've read a couple of photography magazine articles in the past
    indicating that there really is a reason to use the paper that the printer
    manufacturer recommends and sells - they match the paper surface with the
    specific inks they sell.
    ray, Feb 6, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Eatmorepies

    Mike Russell Guest

    > On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 20:55:57 +0000, Eatmorepies wrote:
    >
    >> I've Googled round and round and only find adverts for various papers. So
    >> what do you exhibition photographers print on?


    Ilford Semi-Matte is worth a look. I was surprised to find that, for a matte
    paper, it had a higher dMax than Epson glossy photo paper. I did not test
    against PGPP.
    --

    Mike Russell
    www.curvemeister.com/forum/
    Mike Russell, Feb 6, 2007
    #3
  4. Eatmorepies wrote:
    > I've Googled round and round and only find adverts for various
    > papers. So what do you exhibition photographers print on?
    >
    > I've tried various Epson papers but they don't look like the ones
    > I've seen in the best exhibitons - neither do my photos but let's
    > concentrate on paper.
    >
    > What papers do you suggest I might buy to get digital prints a step
    > up from Epson Premium Glossy? (not that I want glossy in particular).
    >
    > John


    InkJet results depend on four factors. The image, the printer, the ink
    and the paper. They all work together. Now add in the fact that quality is
    a very subjective think, you can get a lot of different answers.

    How about telling us what printer ink and paper combonation you like
    best or are using now?

    --
    Joseph Meehan

    Dia 's Muire duit
    Joseph Meehan, Feb 6, 2007
    #4
  5. On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:05:34 -0500, in rec.photo.digital "Joseph Meehan"
    <> wrote:

    >Eatmorepies wrote:
    >> I've Googled round and round and only find adverts for various
    >> papers. So what do you exhibition photographers print on?
    >>
    >> I've tried various Epson papers but they don't look like the ones
    >> I've seen in the best exhibitons - neither do my photos but let's
    >> concentrate on paper.
    >>
    >> What papers do you suggest I might buy to get digital prints a step
    >> up from Epson Premium Glossy? (not that I want glossy in particular).
    >>
    >> John

    >
    > InkJet results depend on four factors. The image, the printer, the ink
    >and the paper. They all work together. Now add in the fact that quality is
    >a very subjective think, you can get a lot of different answers.
    >
    > How about telling us what printer ink and paper combonation you like
    >best or are using now?


    I would also add the application the image is being printed from using the
    appropriate IIC profile for the paper/ink combination being used.
    --
    Ed Ruf ()
    http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
    Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!), Feb 6, 2007
    #5
  6. Eatmorepies wrote

    > What papers do you suggest I might buy to get digital prints a step up
    > from Epson Premium Glossy? (not that I want glossy in particular).


    I've had much much better results from my Epson printer
    with Ilford Pearl than any of the Epson papers. You just
    have to knock the Magenta back 20%

    Chris
    Chris Gilbert, Feb 6, 2007
    #6
  7. On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 22:49:31 GMT, in rec.photo.digital "Chris Gilbert"
    <> wrote:

    >Eatmorepies wrote
    >
    >> What papers do you suggest I might buy to get digital prints a step up
    >> from Epson Premium Glossy? (not that I want glossy in particular).

    >
    >I've had much much better results from my Epson printer
    >with Ilford Pearl than any of the Epson papers. You just
    >have to knock the Magenta back 20%


    Is this in a color managed work flow with an appropriate paper/ink
    combination ICC profile?
    --
    Ed Ruf ()
    http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
    Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!), Feb 6, 2007
    #7
  8. Ed Ruf wrote

    > Is this in a color managed work flow with an appropriate paper/ink
    > combination ICC profile?


    Trial, error and peristance, Ed.

    Chris
    Chris Gilbert, Feb 6, 2007
    #8
  9. On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 23:03:52 GMT, in rec.photo.digital "Chris Gilbert"
    <> wrote:

    >Ed Ruf wrote
    >
    >> Is this in a color managed work flow with an appropriate paper/ink
    >> combination ICC profile?

    >
    >Trial, error and peristance, Ed.


    Thanks. Did you start with a managed work flow and profile or just brute
    force it? If so have you ever tried the former. I get quite good results on
    an R800 using the old Costco paper rumoured to be made by Ilford with one
    of their profiles printing using Qimage. Also get great results on several
    Epson papers using their profiles as well.
    --
    Ed Ruf ()
    http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index.html
    Ed Ruf (REPLY to E-MAIL IN SIG!), Feb 6, 2007
    #9
  10. Ed Ruf wrote

    > Did you start with a managed work flow and profile or just brute
    > force it?


    Brute force. Even the recommended Ilford settings were inadequate.
    If I was volume printing then I would definitely have to be more ordered
    about the whole thing, if only to guarantee consistency of output. At
    the moment, if I volume print then its off to the on-line print shop with
    it.

    > I get quite good results on
    > an R800 using the old Costco paper rumoured to be made by Ilford with one
    > of their profiles printing using Qimage. Also get great results on several
    > Epson papers using their profiles as well.


    It's all a bit frustratingly black art at times. Thanks for the tips.

    Chris
    Chris Gilbert, Feb 6, 2007
    #10
  11. Eatmorepies

    Roy G Guest

    "Eatmorepies" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I've Googled round and round and only find adverts for various papers. So
    > what do you exhibition photographers print on?
    >
    > I've tried various Epson papers but they don't look like the ones I've
    > seen in the best exhibitons - neither do my photos but let's concentrate
    > on paper.
    >
    > What papers do you suggest I might buy to get digital prints a step up
    > from Epson Premium Glossy? (not that I want glossy in particular).
    >
    > John


    Hi.

    A lot of exhibitors, that I know, use "Art Papers" from Perma Jet and other
    independant suppliers. These papers are almost always Matt or Semi Matt
    finish, and a lot more expensive than Epsons.

    One of our local specialised "Art" labs highly recommends Epson Cotton
    Canvas.

    All these workers use ICC Profiles and Colour Manage for the papers. Some
    of the manufacturers do supply Free "Canned" Profiles for a range of
    Printers, or will make Custom Profiles at a cost, or Free if you buy a
    certain amount of their product.

    Roy G
    Roy G, Feb 6, 2007
    #11
  12. Eatmorepies

    ben Guest

    Custom profiles gives better results than canned profiles.Here are few
    profiling services that provide these profiles.


    http://www.customiccprofiles.com/ - 288 patches - $15 Canadian per
    Profile

    http://www.inkjetart.com/custom_profiles/ - $25 for "thick paper" 918
    patch profile - $25 for "thin paper" 1728 patch profile - $50 for a CD/
    DVD Profile

    http://donsprofiles.com/index.htm - 918 patches - $29 a profile

    http://www.dfaprinting.com/profserv.html - $35 for 729 patch profile -
    $45 for 1728 patch profile

    http://www.cathysprofiles.com/ - 918 patches - $40 a profile

    http://www.drycreekphoto.com/custom/customprofiles.htm - (currently on
    hiatus) - $50 a profile

    http://www.chromix.com/colorvalet/ - 756 patches - $99 a profile

    http://www.rpimaging.com/services/custom_icc_profiling - 729 patches -
    $99 a profile

    http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/cm/custom-icc.html - 918 patches -
    $250 a profile
    ben, Feb 7, 2007
    #12
  13. Eatmorepies

    Ron Hunter Guest

    ray wrote:
    > On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 20:55:57 +0000, Eatmorepies wrote:
    >
    >> I've Googled round and round and only find adverts for various papers. So
    >> what do you exhibition photographers print on?
    >>
    >> I've tried various Epson papers but they don't look like the ones I've seen
    >> in the best exhibitons - neither do my photos but let's concentrate on
    >> paper.
    >>
    >> What papers do you suggest I might buy to get digital prints a step up from
    >> Epson Premium Glossy? (not that I want glossy in particular).
    >>
    >> John

    >
    > FWIW - I've read a couple of photography magazine articles in the past
    > indicating that there really is a reason to use the paper that the printer
    > manufacturer recommends and sells - they match the paper surface with the
    > specific inks they sell.
    >

    True, and in most cases, the chemistry of the ink and paper combine to
    produce better images, and may also result in longer lasting pictures
    without fade, or color change.
    Ron Hunter, Feb 7, 2007
    #13
  14. Eatmorepies

    Bob Willard Guest

    Eatmorepies wrote:

    > I've Googled round and round and only find adverts for various papers. So
    > what do you exhibition photographers print on?
    >
    > I've tried various Epson papers but they don't look like the ones I've seen
    > in the best exhibitons - neither do my photos but let's concentrate on
    > paper.
    >
    > What papers do you suggest I might buy to get digital prints a step up from
    > Epson Premium Glossy? (not that I want glossy in particular).
    >
    > John
    >
    >


    I must be dense, but -- if you want hang-on-the-wall quality -- why would you
    start with an inkjet printer?
    --
    Cheers, Bob
    Bob Willard, Feb 7, 2007
    #14
  15. Eatmorepies

    J. Clarke Guest

    On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 07:51:18 -0500, Bob Willard
    <> wrote:

    >Eatmorepies wrote:
    >
    >> I've Googled round and round and only find adverts for various papers. So
    >> what do you exhibition photographers print on?
    >>
    >> I've tried various Epson papers but they don't look like the ones I've seen
    >> in the best exhibitons - neither do my photos but let's concentrate on
    >> paper.
    >>
    >> What papers do you suggest I might buy to get digital prints a step up from
    >> Epson Premium Glossy? (not that I want glossy in particular).
    >>
    >> John
    >>
    >>

    >
    >I must be dense, but -- if you want hang-on-the-wall quality -- why would you
    >start with an inkjet printer?


    Because it's the 21st century and that's what one uses? Or are you
    suggesting that projecting the image of a monitor on wet paper will do
    better?
    J. Clarke, Feb 7, 2007
    #15
  16. Eatmorepies

    Skip Guest

    "Ron Hunter" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > ray wrote:
    >> On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 20:55:57 +0000, Eatmorepies wrote:
    >>
    >>> I've Googled round and round and only find adverts for various papers.
    >>> So what do you exhibition photographers print on?
    >>>
    >>> I've tried various Epson papers but they don't look like the ones I've
    >>> seen in the best exhibitons - neither do my photos but let's concentrate
    >>> on paper.
    >>>
    >>> What papers do you suggest I might buy to get digital prints a step up
    >>> from Epson Premium Glossy? (not that I want glossy in particular).
    >>>
    >>> John

    >>
    >> FWIW - I've read a couple of photography magazine articles in the past
    >> indicating that there really is a reason to use the paper that the
    >> printer
    >> manufacturer recommends and sells - they match the paper surface with the
    >> specific inks they sell.
    >>

    > True, and in most cases, the chemistry of the ink and paper combine to
    > produce better images, and may also result in longer lasting pictures
    > without fade, or color change.


    That's not necessarily true. I've found, and so have many others, that
    Ilford, Museo, Moab and other papers produce superior images to any of the
    papers offered by the printer mfrs.

    --
    Skip Middleton
    www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
    www.pbase.com/skipm
    Skip, Feb 7, 2007
    #16
  17. Eatmorepies

    Skip Guest

    "Bob Willard" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Eatmorepies wrote:
    >
    >> I've Googled round and round and only find adverts for various papers. So
    >> what do you exhibition photographers print on?
    >>
    >> I've tried various Epson papers but they don't look like the ones I've
    >> seen in the best exhibitons - neither do my photos but let's concentrate
    >> on paper.
    >>
    >> What papers do you suggest I might buy to get digital prints a step up
    >> from Epson Premium Glossy? (not that I want glossy in particular).
    >>
    >> John

    >
    > I must be dense, but -- if you want hang-on-the-wall quality -- why would
    > you
    > start with an inkjet printer?
    > --
    > Cheers, Bob


    Control over the print.

    --
    Skip Middleton
    www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
    www.pbase.com/skipm
    Skip, Feb 7, 2007
    #17
  18. Eatmorepies

    tomm42 Guest

    On Feb 6, 3:55 pm, "Eatmorepies" <> wrote:
    > I've Googled round and round and only find adverts for various papers. So
    > what do you exhibition photographers print on?
    >
    > I've tried various Epson papers but they don't look like the ones I've seen
    > in the best exhibitons - neither do my photos but let's concentrate on
    > paper.
    >
    > What papers do you suggest I might buy to get digital prints a step up from
    > Epson Premium Glossy? (not that I want glossy in particular).
    >
    > John



    John,
    Depends on what you want, if you buy papers at an office supply store,
    you won't get the best papers. You also don't say what printer you
    have if you have a dye based printer like an Epson 1280 you will be
    limited in the paper you can use. Epson markets some very good fine
    art papers. The Boston Museum of Fine Art sells painting reproductions
    printed on Epson's Ultra Smooth Matte paper, a truely archival matte
    paper. Most of the fine art papers are different than the photo
    papers, generally have some texture or have a matte finish. Going out
    side Epson papers makes profiles a concern, most manufacturers have
    canned profiles for most of the top selling printers. If you don't
    like those results then custom profiles are necessary. Much easier to
    use profiles than wasting paper on the trial and error technique.
    Many of the independent paper manufacturers sell samples, these are
    often limited because you just don't get enough samples to get an idea
    of how to best use your printer with these papers. But independents
    like Crane, Hannemulle, Hawk Mountain, Innova, Media Street, Moab,
    Parrot Digital, Red River all sell excellent papers (may have
    forgotten a few).
    www.inkjetart.com sells a large range of papers and has good advice.
    If you buy by price, www.itsupplies.com and www.atlex.com both have
    good choices of fine art papers at excellent prices but you may have
    to look else where for profiles and specific advice.

    Good lick
    Tom
    tomm42, Feb 7, 2007
    #18
  19. Eatmorepies

    Bob Willard Guest

    J. Clarke wrote:

    > On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 07:51:18 -0500, Bob Willard
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Eatmorepies wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>I've Googled round and round and only find adverts for various papers. So
    >>>what do you exhibition photographers print on?
    >>>
    >>>I've tried various Epson papers but they don't look like the ones I've seen
    >>>in the best exhibitons - neither do my photos but let's concentrate on
    >>>paper.
    >>>
    >>>What papers do you suggest I might buy to get digital prints a step up from
    >>>Epson Premium Glossy? (not that I want glossy in particular).
    >>>
    >>>John
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>I must be dense, but -- if you want hang-on-the-wall quality -- why would you
    >>start with an inkjet printer?

    >
    >
    > Because it's the 21st century and that's what one uses? Or are you
    > suggesting that projecting the image of a monitor on wet paper will do
    > better?


    You can use what you want. When I want a high-quality print to hang on my wall,
    I take the .JPG to a professional photo shop, along with instructions on how to
    print it. I only use my inkjets when I'll accept relatively low quality.
    --
    Cheers, Bob
    Bob Willard, Feb 7, 2007
    #19
  20. Bob Willard wrote:

    > I must be dense, but -- if you want hang-on-the-wall quality -- why
    > would you
    > start with an inkjet printer?


    What *else* would you reasonably consider starting with? Dye transfer
    (but there are damned few people still doing it, and inkjet printing is
    better for a remarkably large number of pictures) and B&W wet darkroom
    are the possible answers I come up with, and I have done enough quadtone
    inkjet to not be at all sure if web B&W darkroom is better for most
    pictures.
    David Dyer-Bennet, Feb 7, 2007
    #20
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