Cheapest Full Frame Digital Camera?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by mutefan@yahoo.com, Nov 4, 2006.

  1. Guest

    I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is the
    cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need to
    purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?
     
    , Nov 4, 2006
    #1
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  2. Mark² Guest

    wrote:
    > I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is the
    > cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need to
    > purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?


    Canon 5D.

    But if you have to ask this question, I would seriously recommend that you
    stick with the Rebel for the time being. If you're that unfamiliar, you
    likely won't be doing yourself any favors by starting with a much more picky
    full-frame camera.

    "Additional lenses"??
    That all depends on what your intentions are. There are too many aspects to
    that answer to write them all down at 5:30AM... :( See the above two
    sentences...

    --
    Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
    www.pbase.com/markuson
     
    Mark², Nov 4, 2006
    #2
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  3. wrote:
    > I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is the
    > cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need to
    > purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?



    Most Canon lenses will work with the XTi. Is that the only reason you
    want a full frame sensor?

    If you are looking for a full frame sensor in order to improve quality,
    I would not be looking for the cheapest one.

    There are many factors that should be considered when buying a camera
    and it appears you may be ignoring some of them.

    How well a camera fits you hands for example is more important than most
    people realize. Also very important is how the camera works, that is how
    the user interface (the controls) function and how they fit you way of doing
    things.



    --
    Joseph Meehan

    Dia 's Muire duit
     
    Joseph Meehan, Nov 4, 2006
    #3
  4. Mark² Guest

    Joseph Meehan wrote:
    > wrote:
    >> I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is
    >> the cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need
    >> to purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?

    >
    >
    > Most Canon lenses will work with the XTi. Is that the only reason
    > you want a full frame sensor?
    >
    > If you are looking for a full frame sensor in order to improve
    > quality, I would not be looking for the cheapest one.


    Oh?
    The "cheapest" is the excellent Canon 5D (which is one...of a grand total of
    TWO currently manufactured full-frame bodies...along with the $7K Cnaon 1Ds
    Mark II).
    :)

    --
    Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
    www.pbase.com/markuson
     
    Mark², Nov 4, 2006
    #4
  5. Guest

    On Nov 4, 8:38 am, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number
    here)@cox..net> wrote:
    > Canon 5D


    Hey, dude, it's not nice to mock less informed posters, even at 5:30 AM.
     
    , Nov 4, 2006
    #5
  6. Skip Guest

    Not mocking, that is indeed the least expensive full frame camera on the
    market. As far as additional lenses, in addition to what? What lenses do
    you already own?
    And now it's 5:50 am... ;-)

    --
    Skip Middleton
    www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
    www.pbase.com/skipm
     
    Skip, Nov 4, 2006
    #6
  7. "Skip" <> wrote in message
    news:nW03h.8096$...
    > Not mocking, that is indeed the least expensive full frame camera on the
    > market. As far as additional lenses, in addition to what? What lenses do
    > you already own?
    > And now it's 5:50 am... ;-)


    Yer clock's busted; it's 10:57 pm or so...

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
     
    David J. Littleboy, Nov 4, 2006
    #7
  8. JohnR66 Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is the
    > cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need to
    > purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?
    >


    As other's said, the 5D. It is 4x the price. Do you have lenses now? The
    Extra $2K+ difference will buy some decent glass. If you do a lot of long
    focal length shooting, the Rebel is to your advantage anyway.
    John
     
    JohnR66, Nov 4, 2006
    #8
  9. Mark² wrote:
    > Joseph Meehan wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >>> I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is
    >>> the cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need
    >>> to purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?

    >>
    >>
    >> Most Canon lenses will work with the XTi. Is that the only reason
    >> you want a full frame sensor?
    >>
    >> If you are looking for a full frame sensor in order to improve
    >> quality, I would not be looking for the cheapest one.

    >
    > Oh?
    > The "cheapest" is the excellent Canon 5D (which is one...of a grand
    > total of TWO currently manufactured full-frame bodies...along with
    > the $7K Cnaon 1Ds Mark II).
    > :)


    I thought there were a couple of far more expensive models, like 20K+
    Maybe they are gone or they were just a fignewton of my imagination. :)

    --
    Joseph Meehan

    Dia 's Muire duit
     
    Joseph Meehan, Nov 4, 2006
    #9
  10. Bill Funk Guest

    On 4 Nov 2006 05:13:32 -0800, wrote:

    >I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is the
    >cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need to
    >purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?


    As others have pointed out, the Canon is the cheapest full-frame DSLR
    being marketed now.

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5d/

    Does it obviate the need to purchase additional lenses in order to be
    worth the money? Depends. What lenses do you have now? How good do you
    want your pics to be? The 5D will take advantage of the best lenses
    you can buy. Canon makes some very nice "L" series lenses that are of
    very good quality, and Canon's pride in these lenses is evident in
    their prices.

    But I would caution you; since your knowledge of DSLRs doesn't seem to
    extend beyond setting the camera to full auto mode and not
    understanding why the camera does what it does, it might be better to
    stick with the XTi to gain some basic understanding of the interaction
    between the shutter speed, aperture and ISO settings, and how you can
    manipulate them to get what you want, before you buy a 5D. (If you
    don't know how to drive, buying a $100,000 car makes little sense.)
    Gain some knowledge (there are many fine on-line tutorials, and a
    *lot* of good books on basic photography principles) first, then see
    what suits your needs and proficiency level. Don't fall for the "full
    frame uber alles" idea; full frame isn't a necessity for good
    pictures. What's far more important is a knowledge of how to use what
    you have. There's nothing wrong with the XTI; it has a lot of the
    functionality the 5D has. The APS-C sensor isn't a drawback, it's just
    smaller than full frame. For many (myself included), the crop factor
    that, in effect, multiplies the focal length of a lens by 1.6x is an
    advantage. If you don't need wide angle, there's no problem. If you
    do, there are several lenses that go down to 10mm (16mm equilivant on
    the XTI).
    --
    Bill Funk
    replace "g" with "a"
     
    Bill Funk, Nov 4, 2006
    #10
  11. Skip Guest

    "David J. Littleboy" <> wrote in message
    news:eii69h$p5v$...
    >
    > "Skip" <> wrote in message
    > news:nW03h.8096$...
    >> Not mocking, that is indeed the least expensive full frame camera on the
    >> market. As far as additional lenses, in addition to what? What lenses
    >> do you already own?
    >> And now it's 5:50 am... ;-)

    >
    > Yer clock's busted; it's 10:57 pm or so...
    >
    > David J. Littleboy
    > Tokyo, Japan
    >
    >

    No, it's 7:27... ;-)

    --
    Skip Middleton
    www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
    www.pbase.com/skipm
     
    Skip, Nov 4, 2006
    #11
  12. Skip Guest

    "Joseph Meehan" <> wrote in message
    news:TY13h.22798$...
    > Mark² wrote:
    >> Joseph Meehan wrote:
    >>> wrote:
    >>>> I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is
    >>>> the cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need
    >>>> to purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Most Canon lenses will work with the XTi. Is that the only reason
    >>> you want a full frame sensor?
    >>>
    >>> If you are looking for a full frame sensor in order to improve
    >>> quality, I would not be looking for the cheapest one.

    >>
    >> Oh?
    >> The "cheapest" is the excellent Canon 5D (which is one...of a grand
    >> total of TWO currently manufactured full-frame bodies...along with
    >> the $7K Cnaon 1Ds Mark II).
    >> :)

    >
    > I thought there were a couple of far more expensive models, like 20K+
    > Maybe they are gone or they were just a fignewton of my imagination. :)
    >
    > --
    > Joseph Meehan
    >
    > Dia 's Muire duit
    >
    >
    >

    There were, the Kodak DCS 14/n and 14/c, but they were in the $7000 range,
    now discontinued. The old Kodak DCS 560 and 760 weren't quite full frame,
    IIRC, but were in the $20,000 range. Those are long gone, and only 6mp,
    their image quality aren't up to current standards, not to mention a load of
    other limitations...

    --
    Skip Middleton
    www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
    www.pbase.com/skipm
     
    Skip, Nov 4, 2006
    #12
  13. Bill Funk Guest

    On Sat, 4 Nov 2006 07:27:45 -0800, "Skip" <>
    wrote:

    >"David J. Littleboy" <> wrote in message
    >news:eii69h$p5v$...
    >>
    >> "Skip" <> wrote in message
    >> news:nW03h.8096$...
    >>> Not mocking, that is indeed the least expensive full frame camera on the
    >>> market. As far as additional lenses, in addition to what? What lenses
    >>> do you already own?
    >>> And now it's 5:50 am... ;-)

    >>
    >> Yer clock's busted; it's 10:57 pm or so...
    >>
    >> David J. Littleboy
    >> Tokyo, Japan
    >>
    >>

    >No, it's 7:27... ;-)


    Actually, it's 8:58. :)
    --
    Bill Funk
    replace "g" with "a"
     
    Bill Funk, Nov 4, 2006
    #13
  14. Rich Guest

    wrote:
    > I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is the
    > cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need to
    > purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?


    Before you decided on the above, did you handle a 30D or the older 20D?
    If you did, you would cancel your order. In fact, you'd never have
    placed it in the first place.
     
    Rich, Nov 4, 2006
    #14
  15. Guest

    On Nov 4, 10:11 am, Bill Funk <> wrote:
    >
    > But I would caution you; since your knowledge of DSLRs doesn't seem to
    > extend beyond setting the camera to full auto mode and not
    > understanding why the camera does what it does, it might be better to
    > stick with the XTi to gain some basic understanding of the interaction
    > between the shutter speed, aperture and ISO settings, and how you can
    > manipulate them to get what you want, before you buy a 5D.


    Indeed, I'm a beginner but just earned @ $100. from a photo on one of
    the stock photography sites; and I've tutored myself for about six
    months now...largely on this group. (Hey, thanks, by the way!)

    > Don't fall for the "full
    > frame uber alles" idea; full frame isn't a necessity for good
    > pictures. What's far more important is a knowledge of how to use what
    > you have. There's nothing wrong with the XTI; it has a lot of the
    > functionality the 5D has. The APS-C sensor isn't a drawback, it's just
    > smaller than full frame. For many (myself included), the crop factor
    > that, in effect, multiplies the focal length of a lens by 1.6x is an
    > advantage. If you don't need wide angle, there's no problem. If you
    > do, there are several lenses that go down to 10mm (16mm equilivant on
    > the XTI).


    Well, I just got an email that my Rebel has shipped, at $815. It's
    easy to pity myself and say beggars can't be choosers, but what an
    incredibly self-indulgent attitude to have! I've given away a 4.1 and
    will now give away my 7.1 PowerShot A620 (that I came to L-O-V-E, luv v
    v!) to family members who make me ashamed I even made this post.

    I fall into that category of
    just-too-poor-to-afford-the-thing-you-really-want, boo hoo.
     
    , Nov 4, 2006
    #15
  16. Guest

    On Nov 4, 1:35 pm, "Rich" <> wrote:

    > Before you decided on the above, did you handle a 30D or the older 20D?
    > If you did, you would cancel your order. In fact, you'd never have
    > placed it in the first place.


    Yep. I wanted a 20D, but I just can't afford the price difference. If
    you know where I can get a non-Chinese (inside joke) 20D for under
    $900., please post fast!!!
     
    , Nov 4, 2006
    #16
  17. Mark² Guest

    wrote:
    > On Nov 4, 8:38 am, "Mark²" <mjmorgan(lowest even number
    > here)@cox..net> wrote:
    >> Canon 5D

    >
    > Hey, dude, it's not nice to mock less informed posters, even at 5:30
    > AM.


    I'm not mocking at all.

    The fact is...full frame cameras like the 5D are much less forgiving...on
    several levels.

    One, it will expose the flaws in less-than-top-quality lenses because the
    detail is that good.

    Two...it requires more care in terms of aperture value and due to the return
    of normal vignetting issues we'd all but forgotten about after becoming
    accustomed to cropped sensor sizes.

    Three: It has no built-in flash...meaning you must buy a show-mounted
    flash, or rely solely on ambient light.

    Four: If you would prefer help as a new DSLR shooter from the modes which
    lesser Canon cameras have (Sports mode, Landscape mode, Macro, etc.)...it is
    assumed that you know how to do that, and you are therefore NOT given these
    modes--You've got to create the settings yourself.

    These are just a few examples.

    --
    Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
    www.pbase.com/markuson
     
    Mark², Nov 4, 2006
    #17
  18. Mark² Guest

    wrote:
    > On Nov 4, 10:11 am, Bill Funk <> wrote:
    >>
    >> But I would caution you; since your knowledge of DSLRs doesn't seem
    >> to extend beyond setting the camera to full auto mode and not
    >> understanding why the camera does what it does, it might be better to
    >> stick with the XTi to gain some basic understanding of the
    >> interaction between the shutter speed, aperture and ISO settings,
    >> and how you can manipulate them to get what you want, before you buy
    >> a 5D.

    >
    > Indeed, I'm a beginner but just earned @ $100. from a photo on one of
    > the stock photography sites; and I've tutored myself for about six
    > months now...largely on this group. (Hey, thanks, by the way!)
    >
    >> Don't fall for the "full
    >> frame uber alles" idea; full frame isn't a necessity for good
    >> pictures. What's far more important is a knowledge of how to use what
    >> you have. There's nothing wrong with the XTI; it has a lot of the
    >> functionality the 5D has. The APS-C sensor isn't a drawback, it's
    >> just smaller than full frame. For many (myself included), the crop
    >> factor that, in effect, multiplies the focal length of a lens by
    >> 1.6x is an advantage. If you don't need wide angle, there's no
    >> problem. If you do, there are several lenses that go down to 10mm
    >> (16mm equilivant on the XTI).

    >
    > Well, I just got an email that my Rebel has shipped, at $815. It's
    > easy to pity myself and say beggars can't be choosers, but what an
    > incredibly self-indulgent attitude to have! I've given away a 4.1 and
    > will now give away my 7.1 PowerShot A620 (that I came to L-O-V-E, luv
    > v v!) to family members who make me ashamed I even made this post.
    >
    > I fall into that category of
    > just-too-poor-to-afford-the-thing-you-really-want, boo hoo.


    Once you become familiar with your Rebel and it's
    characteristics/requirements, etc., you'll discover that it will be MORE
    than enough to create truly stunning images.

    --
    Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
    www.pbase.com/markuson
     
    Mark², Nov 4, 2006
    #18
  19. Mark² Guest

    Rich wrote:
    > wrote:
    >> I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is
    >> the cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need
    >> to purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?

    >
    > Before you decided on the above, did you handle a 30D or the older
    > 20D? If you did, you would cancel your order. In fact, you'd never
    > have placed it in the first place.


    That's often true, but not always. My dad, for example, bought the 10D on
    my recommendation.
    He loves it, but would not prefer a lighter-weight camera. I think he would
    be thrilled with the Rebel.

    --
    Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
    www.pbase.com/markuson
     
    Mark², Nov 4, 2006
    #19
  20. wrote:
    > I still have time to cancel out the Rebel XTi 400D order. What is the
    > cheapest full frame sensor camera, and does it obviate the need to
    > purchase additional lenses in order to be worth the money?
    >

    Uhm... cheapest full frame digital would be either the Pentax MZ60 or
    EOS 3000, plus an Epson Perfection scanner wouldn't it? Based on
    Australian prices ($300AUS for the camera, $200AUS for the scanner),
    it's about $5000AUS cheaper than the 5D - that's a lot of film. Yankee
    prices may be a bit different.
    Now I know that it's not quite as convenient as a true digital, but
    cheapest infers a limited budget. It all depends on how much you truly
    need full frame for - for most people it is only a relatively small
    portion of their photography. If there are things that you absolutely
    MUST have full frame for (eg fisheye lenses), and you only need it for a
    small portion of your photography, then film+scanner = a far more
    economical option. Go Film+Scanner+Cropped Digital and you will have the
    best of both worlds, and still come in far cheaper than a 5D - the
    cropped digital will give you low cost for your general purpose shooting
    (with the benefit of increasing your telephoto), while film+scanner will
    give you a relatively cheap option for the full frame needs. Of course
    this depends on if you absolutely need full frame. If you don't, then
    cropped digital will be fine.
     
    Graham Fountain, Nov 4, 2006
    #20
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