CF Card problem

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by jmc, May 7, 2007.

  1. jmc

    jmc Guest

    Maybe someone has seen this before. I have a 512MB CF card that I'm
    trying to copy some pictures to. It'll load a little over 120 MB, then
    tell me the disk is full, though it also tells me there's 383MB left.

    I've tried deleting the files, reformatting the CF card, neither has
    worked. I do have 'show hidden files' enabled in Explorer, so there's
    nothing hiding there.

    This card was used in my cameras - Nikons previously, most recently my
    XTI - with no problems.

    Any help in regaining the other 2/3 of the card would be appreciated!

    jmc
    jmc, May 7, 2007
    #1
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  2. jmc

    Bill Funk Guest

    On Mon, 07 May 2007 21:11:20 +0930, jmc
    <> wrote:

    >Maybe someone has seen this before. I have a 512MB CF card that I'm
    >trying to copy some pictures to. It'll load a little over 120 MB, then
    >tell me the disk is full, though it also tells me there's 383MB left.
    >
    >I've tried deleting the files, reformatting the CF card, neither has
    >worked. I do have 'show hidden files' enabled in Explorer, so there's
    >nothing hiding there.
    >
    >This card was used in my cameras - Nikons previously, most recently my
    >XTI - with no problems.
    >
    >Any help in regaining the other 2/3 of the card would be appreciated!
    >
    >jmc


    Have you tried putting more than 120MB of files on the card using
    Explorer? If so, what happened?
    Does the card behave the same in other cameras?
    Is the problem constant, or intermittant?

    If the problem is constant in Explorer and other cameras, it's
    probably farkled. New 1GB cards are very inexpensive; 512MB cards cost
    even less.

    --
    THIS IS A SIG LINE; NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

    Hillary Clinton refused to fly in a Gulfstream II
    private jet provided for her in South Carolina
    and demanded the more luxurious Gulfstream III.
    She was on her way to California. She can't be
    seen in something the valets are embarrassed
    to park.
    Bill Funk, May 7, 2007
    #2
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  3. jmc

    AustinMN Guest

    On May 7, 6:41 am, jmc <> wrote:
    > Maybe someone has seen this before. I have a 512MB CF card that I'm
    > trying to copy some pictures to. It'll load a little over 120 MB, then
    > tell me the disk is full, though it also tells me there's 383MB left.
    >
    > I've tried deleting the files, reformatting the CF card,


    Did you reformat the card in-camera, or with Explorer? Explorer
    formats of CF cards is a source of all manner of evil.

    Austin
    AustinMN, May 7, 2007
    #3
  4. jmc wrote:
    >Maybe someone has seen this before. I have a 512MB CF card that I'm
    >trying to copy some pictures to. It'll load a little over 120 MB, then
    >tell me the disk is full, though it also tells me there's 383MB left.
    >
    >I've tried deleting the files, reformatting the CF card, neither has
    >worked. I do have 'show hidden files' enabled in Explorer, so there's
    >nothing hiding there.
    >
    >This card was used in my cameras - Nikons previously, most recently my
    >XTI - with no problems.
    >
    >Any help in regaining the other 2/3 of the card would be appreciated!
    >
    >jmc



    I had this problem with an older camera and it had a feature that enabled me
    to save some pictures so they would not be accidently deleted. Go through
    your menu and see if that feature is on your camera. Hope this was helpful.

    EAL

    --
    Message posted via http://www.photokb.com
    wildthings via PhotoKB.com, May 7, 2007
    #4
  5. jmc

    PCs Rule Guest

    > jmc wrote:
    >>Maybe someone has seen this before. I have a 512MB CF card that I'm
    >>trying to copy some pictures to. It'll load a little over 120 MB, then
    >>tell me the disk is full, though it also tells me there's 383MB left.
    >>
    >>I've tried deleting the files, reformatting the CF card, neither has
    >>worked. I do have 'show hidden files' enabled in Explorer, so there's
    >>nothing hiding there.
    >>
    >>This card was used in my cameras - Nikons previously, most recently my
    >>XTI - with no problems.
    >>
    >>Any help in regaining the other 2/3 of the card would be appreciated!
    >>
    >>jmc

    >


    Are you possibly trying to write too many files to it at the root level? If
    so, just create a directory and move them into it.
    PCs Rule, May 7, 2007
    #5
  6. jmc

    ASAAR Guest

    On Mon, 7 May 2007 17:49:01 -0500, PCs Rule wrote:

    > Are you possibly trying to write too many files to it at the root level? If
    > so, just create a directory and move them into it.


    Doubtful. I'm not aware of any camera that doesn't place image
    files into folders, which are created as needed. Austin may have
    hit upon the cause of the problem if the camera wasn't used to
    format the card, it expects a FAT16 format, and a computer gave the
    card a FAT32 format. While rare, the card could also have gone bad.
    ASAAR, May 8, 2007
    #6
  7. jmc

    Richard H. Guest

    jmc wrote:
    > Maybe someone has seen this before. I have a 512MB CF card that I'm
    > trying to copy some pictures to. It'll load a little over 120 MB, then
    > tell me the disk is full, though it also tells me there's 383MB left.


    You're doing this in the PC, not the camera, right? Try the suggestion
    from PCs Rule - put your files in a subdirectory (folder).

    Root directories (aka top-level folders) have a special limitation on
    the number of files they can hold. Subdirectories don't. The magic
    number is something like 512, if memory serves.

    > This card was used in my cameras - Nikons previously, most recently my
    > XTI - with no problems.


    Cameras store images in sub-directories, which don't have this limitation.

    Cheers,
    Richard
    Richard H., May 8, 2007
    #7
  8. jmc

    ASAAR Guest

    On Mon, 07 May 2007 19:08:50 -0700, Richard H. wrote:

    > You're doing this in the PC, not the camera, right? Try the suggestion
    > from PCs Rule - put your files in a subdirectory (folder).


    Yep, that may be it. I didn't read carefully enough and thought
    that he had problems with both the camera and the PC writing to the
    card.

    > Root directories (aka top-level folders) have a special limitation on
    > the number of files they can hold. Subdirectories don't. The magic
    > number is something like 512, if memory serves.


    It varies depending on the format, where from what I recall,
    floppies could have 120 or fewer files in the root directory, and a
    FAT16 drive probably has the 512 file limit that you recall.
    Assuming the CF card could hold 512 files, if 235kb files were
    copied to it, when the 512 file limit was reached the card would
    contain 512 x 235kb, or about 120MB. Obviously the OP did not copy
    high resolution multi-megapixel picture files if this explanation
    represents the reason why he could not fill his CF card. :)
    ASAAR, May 8, 2007
    #8
  9. jmc

    Richard H. Guest

    ASAAR wrote:
    >>Root directories (aka top-level folders) have a special limitation on
    >>the number of files they can hold. Subdirectories don't. The magic
    >>number is something like 512, if memory serves.

    >
    > It varies depending on the format, where from what I recall,
    > floppies could have 120 or fewer files in the root directory, and a
    > FAT16 drive probably has the 512 file limit that you recall.
    > Assuming the CF card could hold 512 files, if 235kb files were
    > copied to it, when the 512 file limit was reached the card would
    > contain 512 x 235kb, or about 120MB. Obviously the OP did not copy
    > high resolution multi-megapixel picture files if this explanation
    > represents the reason why he could not fill his CF card. :)
    >


    Yeah, you're probably right about 128 - I remember it was painfully easy
    to hit. This used to be a common help desk problem (and maybe still is)
    when users would save all their files in c:\. :)

    It'd make sense for this to have been fixed in larger versions of FAT,
    but with Redmond nothing's surprising.
    Richard H., May 8, 2007
    #9
  10. jmc

    ASAAR Guest

    On Mon, 07 May 2007 21:48:54 -0700, Richard H. wrote:

    >> It varies depending on the format, where from what I recall,
    >> floppies could have 120 or fewer files in the root directory, and a
    >> FAT16 drive probably has the 512 file limit that you recall.
    >> Assuming the CF card could hold 512 files, if 235kb files were
    >> copied to it, when the 512 file limit was reached the card would
    >> contain 512 x 235kb, or about 120MB. Obviously the OP did not copy
    >> high resolution multi-megapixel picture files if this explanation
    >> represents the reason why he could not fill his CF card. :)
    >>

    >
    > Yeah, you're probably right about 128 - I remember it was painfully easy
    > to hit. This used to be a common help desk problem (and maybe still is)
    > when users would save all their files in c:\. :)
    >
    > It'd make sense for this to have been fixed in larger versions of FAT,
    > but with Redmond nothing's surprising.


    You don't trust Redmond too? I like that! But no, before posting
    my last reply I ran a disk test utility that can rapidly create a
    specified number of files, terminating early if there's a disk
    error. I had it create 6,000 files in the root directories of both
    a FAT32 and an NTFS drive and it completed both times without error.

    Wanting to see if there was a 32k or 64k limit, I just ran the
    program a few more times and the NTFS volume's root directory now
    has over 80,000 files in it. For the FAT32 volume I stopped after
    creating only 40,000 files since all operations were *much* slower.
    I still don't know what the maximum number of root directory files
    is, or if there actually is a fixed limit, but it's large enough
    that I won't worry about it. Maybe Redmond set it to 640k. After
    all, who'd ever need more than that! <g>
    ASAAR, May 8, 2007
    #10
  11. jmc

    jmc Guest

    Suddenly, without warning, jmc exclaimed (07-May-07 9:11 PM):
    > Maybe someone has seen this before. I have a 512MB CF card that I'm
    > trying to copy some pictures to. It'll load a little over 120 MB, then
    > tell me the disk is full, though it also tells me there's 383MB left.
    >
    > I've tried deleting the files, reformatting the CF card, neither has
    > worked. I do have 'show hidden files' enabled in Explorer, so there's
    > nothing hiding there.
    >
    > This card was used in my cameras - Nikons previously, most recently my
    > XTI - with no problems.
    >
    > Any help in regaining the other 2/3 of the card would be appreciated!
    >
    > jmc


    Thanks for the replies. I suspect it's my CF card reader, or my USB
    port (my system has odd USB problems sometimes. I really need to
    replace the mobo one of these days!).

    Anyway, it finally occurred to me to try reformatting the card on my
    laptop (has a built-in CF reader). My PC is Win2K, Laptop is XP Pro.
    Did that, then put it back into my PC's reader, and had no problems
    loading the card up.

    To answer some other respondents:

    I forgot to mention, I was copying pictures to the card in order to use
    the card in a digital frame, rather than in my camera.

    I was using both Explorer and ThumbsPlus to put files on the card. It'd
    just stop partway through.

    I was formatting on the PC. Once I ran into problems, I was reluctant
    to put this card back into my camera, didn't want to screw up the
    numbering system (which has happened to me before with the XTi).

    I wasn't using the protect capability of the camera.

    I wasn't writing too many files to the root - that's a pretty large
    number. it was stopping at 120-something files. Once it formatted
    correctly, I was able to put over 800 pics on it, no problem.

    It may indeed have been the format, though I'm pretty sure I've put over
    120 files on a FAT16 root drive before. Certainly have when shooting!
    At any rate, I think I formatted it Fat32 on the XP machine, which the
    digital frame doesn't seem to mind.

    Digital frames are COOL by the way. :)

    Thanks to everyone for your replies.

    jmc
    jmc, May 8, 2007
    #11
  12. jmc

    Bill Funk Guest

    On Mon, 7 May 2007 17:49:01 -0500, "PCs Rule" <>
    wrote:

    >Are you possibly trying to write too many files to it at the root level? If
    >so, just create a directory and move them into it.


    This is a limitation that was pretty much peculiar to FAT12 - the FAT
    system used on floppy disks.
    FAT16 pretty much did away with this limitation; while it still
    remained, today's flash RAM cards for cameras very rarely reach this
    limit, and a 512 MB card woiuld almost certainly not reach it.

    --
    THIS IS A SIG LINE; NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

    First Lady Laura Bush hosted a formal dinner
    for Queen Elizabeth Monday. The dress code was
    white-tie-and-tails for the men. They sometimes
    had white tails at the Clinton White House but
    the bunnies were always cleared out before
    Hillary came home.
    Bill Funk, May 8, 2007
    #12
  13. jmc

    ASAAR Guest

    On Tue, 08 May 2007 10:50:50 -0700, Bill Funk wrote:

    >> Are you possibly trying to write too many files to it at the root level? If
    >> so, just create a directory and move them into it.

    >
    > This is a limitation that was pretty much peculiar to FAT12 - the FAT
    > system used on floppy disks.
    > FAT16 pretty much did away with this limitation; while it still
    > remained, today's flash RAM cards for cameras very rarely reach this
    > limit, and a 512 MB card woiuld almost certainly not reach it.


    Nope. If cameras don't reach the limit it's for two reasons.
    First, all of the cameras I've seen store the files in folders, not
    in the root. Second, while there may be exceptions, even when
    storing files in folders, cameras tend to have a 100 file limit per
    folder. FAT16 expanded the FAT12 limit slightly. It's FAT32 that
    greatly increased the limit. My 512MB flash card won't hold more
    than 512 files in its root directory. My FAT32 and NTFS root
    directories hold far more. I stopped filling them with files when
    the number reached 40,000 and 80,000 respectively.
    ASAAR, May 8, 2007
    #13
  14. jmc

    Bill Funk Guest

    On Mon, 07 May 2007 21:48:54 -0700, "Richard H." <> wrote:

    >ASAAR wrote:
    >>>Root directories (aka top-level folders) have a special limitation on
    >>>the number of files they can hold. Subdirectories don't. The magic
    >>>number is something like 512, if memory serves.

    >>
    >> It varies depending on the format, where from what I recall,
    >> floppies could have 120 or fewer files in the root directory, and a
    >> FAT16 drive probably has the 512 file limit that you recall.
    >> Assuming the CF card could hold 512 files, if 235kb files were
    >> copied to it, when the 512 file limit was reached the card would
    >> contain 512 x 235kb, or about 120MB. Obviously the OP did not copy
    >> high resolution multi-megapixel picture files if this explanation
    >> represents the reason why he could not fill his CF card. :)
    >>

    >
    >Yeah, you're probably right about 128 - I remember it was painfully easy
    >to hit. This used to be a common help desk problem (and maybe still is)
    >when users would save all their files in c:\. :)


    I knew a guy (NOT a freind!) who claimed to be able to prove that
    Iomega ZIP 100 disks only held 50 MB of data.
    He'd load 50MB of small photos onto the ZIP 100 disk, and get the Out
    of Disk Space error, thus proving they only hold 50 MB, and that the
    100 MB claim was based on a ZIPped file size (thus the ZIP name).
    When I explained that removing two files and creating another
    directory would disprove his theory, he got pissed, and never talked
    to me again. :)

    >
    >It'd make sense for this to have been fixed in larger versions of FAT,
    >but with Redmond nothing's surprising.


    --
    THIS IS A SIG LINE; NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

    First Lady Laura Bush hosted a formal dinner
    for Queen Elizabeth Monday. The dress code was
    white-tie-and-tails for the men. They sometimes
    had white tails at the Clinton White House but
    the bunnies were always cleared out before
    Hillary came home.
    Bill Funk, May 8, 2007
    #14
  15. jmc

    Bill Funk Guest

    On Tue, 08 May 2007 03:16:56 -0400, ASAAR <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 07 May 2007 21:48:54 -0700, Richard H. wrote:
    >
    >>> It varies depending on the format, where from what I recall,
    >>> floppies could have 120 or fewer files in the root directory, and a
    >>> FAT16 drive probably has the 512 file limit that you recall.
    >>> Assuming the CF card could hold 512 files, if 235kb files were
    >>> copied to it, when the 512 file limit was reached the card would
    >>> contain 512 x 235kb, or about 120MB. Obviously the OP did not copy
    >>> high resolution multi-megapixel picture files if this explanation
    >>> represents the reason why he could not fill his CF card. :)
    >>>

    >>
    >> Yeah, you're probably right about 128 - I remember it was painfully easy
    >> to hit. This used to be a common help desk problem (and maybe still is)
    >> when users would save all their files in c:\. :)
    >>
    >> It'd make sense for this to have been fixed in larger versions of FAT,
    >> but with Redmond nothing's surprising.

    >
    > You don't trust Redmond too? I like that! But no, before posting
    >my last reply I ran a disk test utility that can rapidly create a
    >specified number of files, terminating early if there's a disk
    >error. I had it create 6,000 files in the root directories of both
    >a FAT32 and an NTFS drive and it completed both times without error.
    >
    > Wanting to see if there was a 32k or 64k limit, I just ran the
    >program a few more times and the NTFS volume's root directory now
    >has over 80,000 files in it. For the FAT32 volume I stopped after
    >creating only 40,000 files since all operations were *much* slower.
    >I still don't know what the maximum number of root directory files
    >is, or if there actually is a fixed limit, but it's large enough
    >that I won't worry about it. Maybe Redmond set it to 640k. After
    >all, who'd ever need more than that! <g>



    IIRC, for NTFS, it's unlimited for the root directory, because the
    root's directory size is dynamic.
    IIRC, also, for FAT32, it's 64K entries, but I may be disremembering
    that one.

    --
    THIS IS A SIG LINE; NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

    First Lady Laura Bush hosted a formal dinner
    for Queen Elizabeth Monday. The dress code was
    white-tie-and-tails for the men. They sometimes
    had white tails at the Clinton White House but
    the bunnies were always cleared out before
    Hillary came home.
    Bill Funk, May 8, 2007
    #15
  16. jmc

    ASAAR Guest

    On Tue, 08 May 2007 15:08:07 -0700, Bill Funk wrote:

    > IIRC, for NTFS, it's unlimited for the root directory, because the
    > root's directory size is dynamic.
    > IIRC, also, for FAT32, it's 64K entries, but I may be disremembering
    > that one.


    Your memory is still working. Just for you I re-ran my disk
    utility and the FAT32 volume allowed 65,466 files to be written in
    the root directory. :) I can smile now. Deleting 64k files isn't
    much fun. For anything like that, NTFS is the way to go if you
    don't want to bring the machine to its knees.
    ASAAR, May 9, 2007
    #16
  17. jmc

    m II Guest

    ASAAR wrote:

    > I still don't know what the maximum number of root directory files
    > is, or if there actually is a fixed limit, but it's large enough
    > that I won't worry about it. Maybe Redmond set it to 640k. After
    > all, who'd ever need more than that! <g>



    Talk about a blast from the past. Gates certainly put his foot in his
    mouth with that one.






    mike
    m II, May 9, 2007
    #17
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