CCNP/CCIE LAB PURCHASE

Discussion in 'Cisco' started by JohnNews, Sep 17, 2003.

  1. JohnNews

    JohnNews Guest

    Folks:



    I am ALMOST ready to begin purchasing routers & switches for my CCNP/CCIE
    lab. During research on Ebay the top 2 vendors seem to be
    ccie_expert@hotmail and .
    Nevertheless, here are a few questions that surfaced::

    * Can I purchase USED equipment from CISCO itself to get a better deal than
    if I purchase from Ebay?

    * If I purchase routers & switches from Ebay, will I get access to
    additional resources (currently unavailable to me) on cisco's web site?

    * On Ebay I notice that the cisco 2620 router comes with IOS 12.3. However
    all the 2500 series routers have IOS 12.2. Is this a problem?

    * Can I expect IOS problems if the IOS versions are slightly different and
    if the vendors are different?

    * Do I need Token Ring for any of the routers in my proposed lab?

    * I notice on Ebay that some 25xx routers are have built-in 8/12 port HUBS.
    Is this a problem? My first response is why a built-in HUM and not a
    built-in SWITCH?

    * What duration of warranty should I look for. I have seen 17/14/30/90 day
    warrantly. How important is this and should I negotiate a hefty warranty

    * What is a fully loaded router?

    * I notice that many Ebay vendors are claiming that the routers are working
    because they tested same. Should I expect the routers of my proposed
    CCNP/CCIE lab to stop working soon or eventually. The questin here I guess
    is how reliable are these devices (Routers & Switches) and how long should
    the warranty last so as to provide me with sufficient consumer protection.

    * Is there a huge difference between cisco 2610 and 2620 and do I need both
    for my CCNP/CCIE lab?

    * I am looking for a brief explanation of the following terminology:
    cisco 2620, 64/16 NB, 1DSU, T1 FW3des


    Thanks in advance for your assistance & PATIENCE.




    Cheers,
    John.
     
    JohnNews, Sep 17, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. JohnNews

    Will Guest

    > * Can I purchase USED equipment from CISCO itself to get a better deal than
    > if I purchase from Ebay?


    Cisco sells refurbed equipment through resellers. Such parts have a -RF
    suffix on the part number. The only reason to buy this stuff is that
    cisco will sell you a support contract on it and support the hardware
    just like new hardware. They may or may not do so with "uncertified"
    used hardware, which is what you'll get on ebay for much less than any
    -RF part.

    > * If I purchase routers & switches from Ebay, will I get access to
    > additional resources (currently unavailable to me) on cisco's web site?


    No, the only way to get additional access is to buy a service contract,
    work for reseller/dealer, or be a CCIE.

    > * On Ebay I notice that the cisco 2620 router comes with IOS 12.3. However
    > all the 2500 series routers have IOS 12.2. Is this a problem?


    Probably not. If you want to experiment with features in 12.3 you won't
    have them available in your 2500 running 12.2, but 12.2 code has all the
    basics and more and you'll probably never notice the difference. 12.3 or
    future versions of IOS may be so large that cisco is unable to fit the
    full feature set into the 2500's limited flash/dram. Still, 12.2 code
    has *a lot* of stuff in it, there's lots to learn in there.

    > * Can I expect IOS problems if the IOS versions are slightly different and
    > if the vendors are different?


    It's very unlikely that you'll experience any problems. The protocols
    are standardized for a reason -- to allow interoperability. There may be
    obscure interoperability bugs in certain parts of IOS in certain
    versions, but you're not likely to come across them.

    > * Do I need Token Ring for any of the routers in my proposed lab?


    No, token ring is largely obsolete. You might find it fun to play with
    just out of curiosity though (if you're not curious, ask yourself why
    you're spending time on this whole thing in the first place). Ditto FDDI.

    > * I notice on Ebay that some 25xx routers are have built-in 8/12 port HUBS.
    > Is this a problem? My first response is why a built-in HUM and not a
    > built-in SWITCH?


    When the 2500 series routers were designed, an ethernet switch was a
    rare and expensive beast. A 2500 isn't capable of pushing more than a
    few Mb/s of traffic anyway, which an unswitched network can easily
    handle. You'll notice that the newer/more powerful 3600/3700 line has
    ethernet switch modules available...

    > * What duration of warranty should I look for. I have seen 17/14/30/90 day
    > warrantly. How important is this and should I negotiate a hefty warranty


    I wouldn't bother looking for more than a basic DOA warranty -- 7-10
    days to check out basic "not brokenness" is plenty.

    > * What is a fully loaded router?


    Usually they're referring to the amount of DRAM/flash memory installed
    being the maximum supported by the platform. (2500s max out of 16MB
    dram, 16 MB flash for example). With modular routers (2600,3600,4000,
    etc) it can also refer to the particular network interfaces modules
    installed as well. A good vendor will always spell out exactly what they
    mean (parts numbers, memory figures) rather than resorting to ambigous
    terms.

    > * I notice that many Ebay vendors are claiming that the routers are working
    > because they tested same. Should I expect the routers of my proposed
    > CCNP/CCIE lab to stop working soon or eventually. The questin here I guess
    > is how reliable are these devices (Routers & Switches) and how long should
    > the warranty last so as to provide me with sufficient consumer protection.


    Since the only moving parts in these things are the fans, they're
    extremely reliable if operated in reasonably clean environments (eg,
    indoors at normal temperatures). I never bother with more than a DOA
    warranty for lab equipment. For production use I purchase new and get a
    cisco support contract ($$$). The chances of your router/switch
    blowing up under normal use are so small that it's not worth hassling
    the person selling it to you for a longer warranty in most cases.

    > * Is there a huge difference between cisco 2610 and 2620 and do I need both
    > for my CCNP/CCIE lab?


    There is a small difference that may or may not be significant to you
    depending on the capabilities of the other equipment in your lab. If
    you're going to be a CCNP/CCIE I suggest you take this opportunity to
    practice going to Cisco's web site and finding the answer. Look under
    their product info section for info on the various 2600 models.


    Good luck with your studies!

    -Will
     
    Will, Sep 17, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. JohnNews

    David Jones Guest

    I am looking into buying some equipment to use to study for my CCNA. I
    plan to pursue the full breadth of Cisco certs in the next few years
    (CCNA/CCDA, CCNP/CCDP, etc) so I want equipment that will provide the
    best bang for the buck over the course of that time. As a poor college
    student, I figure that the Cisco path is right for me considering the
    plans I have for my future, but I am also trying to keep the cost of
    study down while gaining hands on experience. I don't wish to be a
    "Paper CCNx".

    I have done some studying for the CCNA in the past couple of years,
    but had to put it on hold due to other obligations (Work and College).
    At the time of my previous CCNA study I was working with the 2500
    Series routers and the 2900 Series Switches. I am finding these items
    on eBay at relatively reasonable costs.

    Therefore, my question is two-fold:
    1. Would the 2500/2900 Series serve my purposes if I were to max out
    the RAM/Flash to the full 16MB each and the IOS to 12.2+? Or should I
    look into the 2600 series routers? If 2500/2900 will not do it, what
    SHOULD I be looking for?

    2. Are there any recommendations as to where I should look for
    RAM/Flash and IOS images at a reduced cost? Again, I'm a poor college
    student, so cost is a bit of an issue. ;)

    Thanks in advance for sharing your infinite wisdom.

    David M. Jones

    A+ Net+ CNE


    Will <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > > * Can I purchase USED equipment from CISCO itself to get a better deal than
    > > if I purchase from Ebay?

    >
    > Cisco sells refurbed equipment through resellers. Such parts have a -RF
    > suffix on the part number. The only reason to buy this stuff is that
    > cisco will sell you a support contract on it and support the hardware
    > just like new hardware. They may or may not do so with "uncertified"
    > used hardware, which is what you'll get on ebay for much less than any
    > -RF part.
    >
    > > * If I purchase routers & switches from Ebay, will I get access to
    > > additional resources (currently unavailable to me) on cisco's web site?

    >
    > No, the only way to get additional access is to buy a service contract,
    > work for reseller/dealer, or be a CCIE.
    >
    > > * On Ebay I notice that the cisco 2620 router comes with IOS 12.3. However
    > > all the 2500 series routers have IOS 12.2. Is this a problem?

    >
    > Probably not. If you want to experiment with features in 12.3 you won't
    > have them available in your 2500 running 12.2, but 12.2 code has all the
    > basics and more and you'll probably never notice the difference. 12.3 or
    > future versions of IOS may be so large that cisco is unable to fit the
    > full feature set into the 2500's limited flash/dram. Still, 12.2 code
    > has *a lot* of stuff in it, there's lots to learn in there.
    >
    > > * Can I expect IOS problems if the IOS versions are slightly different and
    > > if the vendors are different?

    >
    > It's very unlikely that you'll experience any problems. The protocols
    > are standardized for a reason -- to allow interoperability. There may be
    > obscure interoperability bugs in certain parts of IOS in certain
    > versions, but you're not likely to come across them.
    >
    > > * Do I need Token Ring for any of the routers in my proposed lab?

    >
    > No, token ring is largely obsolete. You might find it fun to play with
    > just out of curiosity though (if you're not curious, ask yourself why
    > you're spending time on this whole thing in the first place). Ditto FDDI.
    >
    > > * I notice on Ebay that some 25xx routers are have built-in 8/12 port HUBS.
    > > Is this a problem? My first response is why a built-in HUM and not a
    > > built-in SWITCH?

    >
    > When the 2500 series routers were designed, an ethernet switch was a
    > rare and expensive beast. A 2500 isn't capable of pushing more than a
    > few Mb/s of traffic anyway, which an unswitched network can easily
    > handle. You'll notice that the newer/more powerful 3600/3700 line has
    > ethernet switch modules available...
    >
    > > * What duration of warranty should I look for. I have seen 17/14/30/90 day
    > > warrantly. How important is this and should I negotiate a hefty warranty

    >
    > I wouldn't bother looking for more than a basic DOA warranty -- 7-10
    > days to check out basic "not brokenness" is plenty.
    >
    > > * What is a fully loaded router?

    >
    > Usually they're referring to the amount of DRAM/flash memory installed
    > being the maximum supported by the platform. (2500s max out of 16MB
    > dram, 16 MB flash for example). With modular routers (2600,3600,4000,
    > etc) it can also refer to the particular network interfaces modules
    > installed as well. A good vendor will always spell out exactly what they
    > mean (parts numbers, memory figures) rather than resorting to ambigous
    > terms.
    >
    > > * I notice that many Ebay vendors are claiming that the routers are working
    > > because they tested same. Should I expect the routers of my proposed
    > > CCNP/CCIE lab to stop working soon or eventually. The questin here I guess
    > > is how reliable are these devices (Routers & Switches) and how long should
    > > the warranty last so as to provide me with sufficient consumer protection.

    >
    > Since the only moving parts in these things are the fans, they're
    > extremely reliable if operated in reasonably clean environments (eg,
    > indoors at normal temperatures). I never bother with more than a DOA
    > warranty for lab equipment. For production use I purchase new and get a
    > cisco support contract ($$$). The chances of your router/switch
    > blowing up under normal use are so small that it's not worth hassling
    > the person selling it to you for a longer warranty in most cases.
    >
    > > * Is there a huge difference between cisco 2610 and 2620 and do I need both
    > > for my CCNP/CCIE lab?

    >
    > There is a small difference that may or may not be significant to you
    > depending on the capabilities of the other equipment in your lab. If
    > you're going to be a CCNP/CCIE I suggest you take this opportunity to
    > practice going to Cisco's web site and finding the answer. Look under
    > their product info section for info on the various 2600 models.
    >
    >
    > Good luck with your studies!
    >
    > -Will
     
    David Jones, Sep 17, 2003
    #3
  4. JohnNews

    JohnNews Guest

    David:


    Do a quick search of the above TWO newsgroups for questions FROM "JohnNews".
    I have been working on building my own CCNP/CCIE lab for a few weeks now. I
    have asked a huge number of questions and the responses were all great. You
    may find answers to your current questions among these threads.

    Like you, I want my lab to be easily scalable and therefore relevant for
    many years to come. I too am looking for the biggest bang for my buck and
    so I am exercising DUE DILIGENCE. I am investing lots of time (and learning
    much as I go through this process) to do all the necessary homework. I do
    not want a bad experience. I will be spending at least $5000.

    Good luck with all of your studies and career plans




    Cheers,
    John.



    "David Jones" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I am looking into buying some equipment to use to study for my CCNA. I
    > plan to pursue the full breadth of Cisco certs in the next few years
    > (CCNA/CCDA, CCNP/CCDP, etc) so I want equipment that will provide the
    > best bang for the buck over the course of that time. As a poor college
    > student, I figure that the Cisco path is right for me considering the
    > plans I have for my future, but I am also trying to keep the cost of
    > study down while gaining hands on experience. I don't wish to be a
    > "Paper CCNx".
    >
    > I have done some studying for the CCNA in the past couple of years,
    > but had to put it on hold due to other obligations (Work and College).
    > At the time of my previous CCNA study I was working with the 2500
    > Series routers and the 2900 Series Switches. I am finding these items
    > on eBay at relatively reasonable costs.
    >
    > Therefore, my question is two-fold:
    > 1. Would the 2500/2900 Series serve my purposes if I were to max out
    > the RAM/Flash to the full 16MB each and the IOS to 12.2+? Or should I
    > look into the 2600 series routers? If 2500/2900 will not do it, what
    > SHOULD I be looking for?
    >
    > 2. Are there any recommendations as to where I should look for
    > RAM/Flash and IOS images at a reduced cost? Again, I'm a poor college
    > student, so cost is a bit of an issue. ;)
    >
    > Thanks in advance for sharing your infinite wisdom.
    >
    > David M. Jones
    >
    > A+ Net+ CNE
    >
    >
    > Will <> wrote in message

    news:<>...
    > > > * Can I purchase USED equipment from CISCO itself to get a better

    deal than
    > > > if I purchase from Ebay?

    > >
    > > Cisco sells refurbed equipment through resellers. Such parts have a -RF
    > > suffix on the part number. The only reason to buy this stuff is that
    > > cisco will sell you a support contract on it and support the hardware
    > > just like new hardware. They may or may not do so with "uncertified"
    > > used hardware, which is what you'll get on ebay for much less than any
    > > -RF part.
    > >
    > > > * If I purchase routers & switches from Ebay, will I get access to
    > > > additional resources (currently unavailable to me) on cisco's web

    site?
    > >
    > > No, the only way to get additional access is to buy a service contract,
    > > work for reseller/dealer, or be a CCIE.
    > >
    > > > * On Ebay I notice that the cisco 2620 router comes with IOS 12.3.

    However
    > > > all the 2500 series routers have IOS 12.2. Is this a problem?

    > >
    > > Probably not. If you want to experiment with features in 12.3 you won't
    > > have them available in your 2500 running 12.2, but 12.2 code has all the
    > > basics and more and you'll probably never notice the difference. 12.3 or
    > > future versions of IOS may be so large that cisco is unable to fit the
    > > full feature set into the 2500's limited flash/dram. Still, 12.2 code
    > > has *a lot* of stuff in it, there's lots to learn in there.
    > >
    > > > * Can I expect IOS problems if the IOS versions are slightly

    different and
    > > > if the vendors are different?

    > >
    > > It's very unlikely that you'll experience any problems. The protocols
    > > are standardized for a reason -- to allow interoperability. There may be
    > > obscure interoperability bugs in certain parts of IOS in certain
    > > versions, but you're not likely to come across them.
    > >
    > > > * Do I need Token Ring for any of the routers in my proposed lab?

    > >
    > > No, token ring is largely obsolete. You might find it fun to play with
    > > just out of curiosity though (if you're not curious, ask yourself why
    > > you're spending time on this whole thing in the first place). Ditto

    FDDI.
    > >
    > > > * I notice on Ebay that some 25xx routers are have built-in 8/12 port

    HUBS.
    > > > Is this a problem? My first response is why a built-in HUM and not a
    > > > built-in SWITCH?

    > >
    > > When the 2500 series routers were designed, an ethernet switch was a
    > > rare and expensive beast. A 2500 isn't capable of pushing more than a
    > > few Mb/s of traffic anyway, which an unswitched network can easily
    > > handle. You'll notice that the newer/more powerful 3600/3700 line has
    > > ethernet switch modules available...
    > >
    > > > * What duration of warranty should I look for. I have seen

    17/14/30/90 day
    > > > warrantly. How important is this and should I negotiate a hefty

    warranty
    > >
    > > I wouldn't bother looking for more than a basic DOA warranty -- 7-10
    > > days to check out basic "not brokenness" is plenty.
    > >
    > > > * What is a fully loaded router?

    > >
    > > Usually they're referring to the amount of DRAM/flash memory installed
    > > being the maximum supported by the platform. (2500s max out of 16MB
    > > dram, 16 MB flash for example). With modular routers (2600,3600,4000,
    > > etc) it can also refer to the particular network interfaces modules
    > > installed as well. A good vendor will always spell out exactly what they
    > > mean (parts numbers, memory figures) rather than resorting to ambigous
    > > terms.
    > >
    > > > * I notice that many Ebay vendors are claiming that the routers are

    working
    > > > because they tested same. Should I expect the routers of my proposed
    > > > CCNP/CCIE lab to stop working soon or eventually. The questin here I

    guess
    > > > is how reliable are these devices (Routers & Switches) and how long

    should
    > > > the warranty last so as to provide me with sufficient consumer

    protection.
    > >
    > > Since the only moving parts in these things are the fans, they're
    > > extremely reliable if operated in reasonably clean environments (eg,
    > > indoors at normal temperatures). I never bother with more than a DOA
    > > warranty for lab equipment. For production use I purchase new and get a
    > > cisco support contract ($$$). The chances of your router/switch
    > > blowing up under normal use are so small that it's not worth hassling
    > > the person selling it to you for a longer warranty in most cases.
    > >
    > > > * Is there a huge difference between cisco 2610 and 2620 and do I

    need both
    > > > for my CCNP/CCIE lab?

    > >
    > > There is a small difference that may or may not be significant to you
    > > depending on the capabilities of the other equipment in your lab. If
    > > you're going to be a CCNP/CCIE I suggest you take this opportunity to
    > > practice going to Cisco's web site and finding the answer. Look under
    > > their product info section for info on the various 2600 models.
    > >
    > >
    > > Good luck with your studies!
    > >
    > > -Will
     
    JohnNews, Sep 17, 2003
    #4
  5. A few quick comments in line on an otherwise excellent response.

    In article <>,
    Will <> wrote:
    .. . .
    >> * On Ebay I notice that the cisco 2620 router comes with IOS 12.3. However
    >> all the 2500 series routers have IOS 12.2. Is this a problem?

    >
    >Probably not. If you want to experiment with features in 12.3 you won't
    >have them available in your 2500 running 12.2, but 12.2 code has all the
    >basics and more and you'll probably never notice the difference. 12.3 or
    >future versions of IOS may be so large that cisco is unable to fit the
    >full feature set into the 2500's limited flash/dram. Still, 12.2 code
    >has *a lot* of stuff in it, there's lots to learn in there.


    Cisco forbids the transfer of the IOS license as part of a hardware
    transfer. Whether you agree with the legality of that restraint is
    between you and your lawyers, physically, there is nothing to stop you
    from using any IOS bits you can lay your hands on that fit in the
    router.

    .. . .
    >> * I notice that many Ebay vendors are claiming that the routers are working
    >> because they tested same. Should I expect the routers of my proposed
    >> CCNP/CCIE lab to stop working soon or eventually. The questin here I guess
    >> is how reliable are these devices (Routers & Switches) and how long should
    >> the warranty last so as to provide me with sufficient consumer protection.

    >
    >Since the only moving parts in these things are the fans, they're
    >extremely reliable if operated in reasonably clean environments (eg,
    >indoors at normal temperatures). I never bother with more than a DOA
    >warranty for lab equipment. For production use I purchase new and get a
    > cisco support contract ($$$). The chances of your router/switch
    >blowing up under normal use are so small that it's not worth hassling
    >the person selling it to you for a longer warranty in most cases.


    Make sure you have a DOA warranty. While the only mechanical part is the
    fan, it is not hard to destroy individual electrical interfaces (most
    common is blown AUX and CON ports on 2503's. Plug an ISDN line into the
    wrong RJ-45 port and kiss-off the RS-232 driver chip for that port.

    Dirt on the inside (yes they have fans, but no filters) can also cause
    problems, particularly if the result of nearby construction work. But
    you might have a challenge claiming that the router is dead when it
    is merely waiting to die. Depending upon the nature of the crud,
    the unit could keep working well past its design lifetime, but on
    the other hand, it might die the first day the humidity exceeds 85%
    (next summer when the humidity goes up in your not so temperature
    and humdity controlled lab environment).

    Good luck and have fun!
    --
    Vincent C Jones, Consultant Expert advice and a helping hand
    Networking Unlimited, Inc. for those who want to manage and
    Tenafly, NJ Phone: 201 568-7810 control their networking destiny
    http://www.networkingunlimited.com
     
    Vincent C Jones, Sep 17, 2003
    #5
  6. JohnNews

    Brad Guest

    Be careful about buying things off of e-bay. Make sure the person you are
    purchasing from offers some type of warranty. Also, since you are extremely
    new, make sure they offer you some type of support - either online or via
    phone. Call them, talk to them, make sure they are legit and good to deal
    with. This will also help to re-assure you to know they understand what
    they are selling. Ive been told about experiences where people purchased
    items off of e-bay, and they werent quite what they were expecting when they
    received the item. (ie, someone listing a 2500 fully loaded, but only
    actually had 4 MB DRAM and 8 MB flash w/ 2x 4MB flash simms - the seller
    thought that since all memory slots were full, the router was indeed, maxed
    out). E-bay can be a great tool as long as you do enough research PRIOR to
    bidding.

    thanks,
    -Brad Ellis
    CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
    Network Learning Inc

    www.ccbootcamp.com/quicklinks.html (Cisco Training)
    www.routerie.com (Cisco R&S CCIE Discussion groups)
    www.securityie.com (Cisco Security CCIE Discussion groups)
    www.optsys.net (Cisco hardware)
    Voice: 702-968-5100
    FAX: 702-968-5104

    "JohnNews" <> wrote in message
    news:O5W9b.372591$Oz4.148441@rwcrnsc54...
    > Folks:
    >
    >
    >
    > I am ALMOST ready to begin purchasing routers & switches for my CCNP/CCIE
    > lab. During research on Ebay the top 2 vendors seem to be
    > ccie_expert@hotmail and .
    > Nevertheless, here are a few questions that surfaced::
    >
    > * Can I purchase USED equipment from CISCO itself to get a better deal

    than
    > if I purchase from Ebay?
    >
    > * If I purchase routers & switches from Ebay, will I get access to
    > additional resources (currently unavailable to me) on cisco's web site?
    >
    > * On Ebay I notice that the cisco 2620 router comes with IOS 12.3.

    However
    > all the 2500 series routers have IOS 12.2. Is this a problem?
    >
    > * Can I expect IOS problems if the IOS versions are slightly different

    and
    > if the vendors are different?
    >
    > * Do I need Token Ring for any of the routers in my proposed lab?
    >
    > * I notice on Ebay that some 25xx routers are have built-in 8/12 port

    HUBS.
    > Is this a problem? My first response is why a built-in HUM and not a
    > built-in SWITCH?
    >
    > * What duration of warranty should I look for. I have seen 17/14/30/90

    day
    > warrantly. How important is this and should I negotiate a hefty warranty
    >
    > * What is a fully loaded router?
    >
    > * I notice that many Ebay vendors are claiming that the routers are

    working
    > because they tested same. Should I expect the routers of my proposed
    > CCNP/CCIE lab to stop working soon or eventually. The questin here I

    guess
    > is how reliable are these devices (Routers & Switches) and how long should
    > the warranty last so as to provide me with sufficient consumer protection.
    >
    > * Is there a huge difference between cisco 2610 and 2620 and do I need

    both
    > for my CCNP/CCIE lab?
    >
    > * I am looking for a brief explanation of the following terminology:
    > cisco 2620, 64/16 NB, 1DSU, T1 FW3des
    >
    >
    > Thanks in advance for your assistance & PATIENCE.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Cheers,
    > John.
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    Brad, Sep 18, 2003
    #6
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