Can't rotate some Pentax DS images

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Andy, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. Andy

    Andy Guest

    I have a Pentax istDS with 2.00 firmware. I used to only shot raw but
    have recently used best quality JPG. Some JPG images that are shot
    with the camera vertical cannot be rotated with Explorer in Windows XP
    home. Other images on the same SD card can be rotated. If the non
    rotatable image file is opened and saved to the same or different file
    name it can be rotated by Explorer. The non rotatable images can also
    be rotated in the camera and then they can be rotated by Explorer.

    Error mesage is "You cannot rotate this image. The file might be in use
    or open in another program, or the file or folder might be read only"

    It appears that camera is sometimes creating image files that are
    incompatible with windows explorer. I found a reference to this
    problem at:

    http://groups.google.com/group/micr...0b1eddbc4f3/e8796cc089218d42#e8796cc089218d42

    but there is no answer.

    Has anyone in this group seen the problem and, if so, is there a known
    cause or solution.

    thanks

    Andy
     
    Andy, Sep 14, 2006
    #1
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  2. Andy

    AustinMN Guest

    Andy wrote:
    > I have a Pentax istDS with 2.00 firmware. I used to only shot raw but
    > have recently used best quality JPG. Some JPG images that are shot
    > with the camera vertical cannot be rotated with Explorer in Windows XP
    > home. Other images on the same SD card can be rotated. If the non
    > rotatable image file is opened and saved to the same or different file
    > name it can be rotated by Explorer. The non rotatable images can also
    > be rotated in the camera and then they can be rotated by Explorer.
    >
    > Error mesage is "You cannot rotate this image. The file might be in use
    > or open in another program, or the file or folder might be read only"
    >
    > It appears that camera is sometimes creating image files that are
    > incompatible with windows explorer.


    I love how Windows can explain the actual problem and people insist
    that something else is wrong.

    The camera is never creating incompatible files. It's either you or
    Windows that's making a mistake.

    Windows may be confused. It thinks some program has the file open.
    Either you really do have the file open (like the error message says)
    or it missed the signal that said it was closed.

    Close all of your programs (including the one that has the file open),
    open Windows Explorer, and rotate the image. If it still doesn't
    rotate, restart Windows and rotate the image. Now I don't expect you
    to do this every time, I just want you to see that there is nothing
    wrong with the image; the problem is either with you having the file
    open or with Windows being confused.

    Please don't blame the camera,
    _this_problem_is_not_being_caused_by_the_camera.

    Austin
     
    AustinMN, Sep 14, 2006
    #2
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  3. Andy

    ASAAR Guest

    On 14 Sep 2006 06:39:56 -0700, Andy wrote:

    > I have a Pentax istDS with 2.00 firmware. I used to only shot raw but
    > have recently used best quality JPG. Some JPG images that are shot
    > with the camera vertical cannot be rotated with Explorer in Windows XP
    > home. Other images on the same SD card can be rotated. If the non
    > rotatable image file is opened and saved to the same or different file
    > name it can be rotated by Explorer. The non rotatable images can also
    > be rotated in the camera and then they can be rotated by Explorer.
    >
    > Error mesage is "You cannot rotate this image. The file might be in use
    > or open in another program, or the file or folder might be read only"
    >
    > It appears that camera is sometimes creating image files that are
    > incompatible with windows explorer. I found a reference to this
    > problem at:
    >
    > http://groups.google.com/group/micr...0b1eddbc4f3/e8796cc089218d42#e8796cc089218d42
    >
    > but there is no answer.
    >
    > Has anyone in this group seen the problem and, if so, is there a known
    > cause or solution.


    I looked at the link you provided and somewhere in it I found a
    mention of Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, so I tried opening and
    viewing several JPG images using that program as well as my usual
    IrfanView. IrfanView was able to show the images and rotate them
    without producing any warnings. I also compared the files after
    viewing and they were completely unchanged. Or I should say that
    their CRC values before and after were identical. When I used
    Windows Picture and Fax Viewer to display the same files I got an
    immediate warning stating:

    > Because of the dimensions of this picture, rotating it might
    > permanently reduce its quality. Rotating a picture
    > automatically saves it using the original name. To save a
    > backup copy first, see 'Copy an image' in Help.
    >
    > Do you want to proceed?
    > [ ] In the future do not show me this dialog box.
    > [Yes] [No]


    Sure enough, as soon as the picture was rotated, it was modified
    on the disk drive. My guess is that whatever app. is being invoked
    by Windows Explorer to display your JPG file is a little smarter
    than the Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, in that it isn't guessing.
    It knows that it will have to modify the file if it could proceed,
    but may have been passed some kind of "R/O" flag by Explorer as a
    precaution, so it gives you a misleading error message. BTW, I'm
    not using Win XP Home as you are, but the MCE version instead, so
    Windows Explorer, the Picture and Fax Viewer and any other included
    viewing apps. may operate with some differences. If you download
    and install Irfanview if you haven't already (it's a very small
    program and it's free) and make it your default JPG viewer, it may
    make for a convenient work-around, and it's probably a better,
    quicker picture viewer than Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, assuming
    that that's what is being invoked by Windows Explorer.
     
    ASAAR, Sep 14, 2006
    #3
  4. Andy

    AustinMN Guest

    ASAAR wrote:
    > On 14 Sep 2006 06:39:56 -0700, Andy wrote:


    > I looked at the link you provided and somewhere in it I found a
    > mention of Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, so I tried opening and
    > viewing several JPG images using that program as well as my usual
    > IrfanView. IrfanView was able to show the images and rotate them
    > without producing any warnings.


    It should have. There are specific sizes of JPG images that can be
    rotated without doing a JPG decompression and recompression. (I
    believe it's when both dimensions can be divided by 8, but I'm not sure
    about that.) The decompression/recompression cycle causes a permanent
    loss of picture information. Windows Picture and Fax Viewer can rotate
    JPG images of appropriate dimensions with no
    decompression/recompression, and therefore will give you a warning
    before rotating one that it has to decompress and recompress.

    > When I used
    > Windows Picture and Fax Viewer to display the same files I got an
    > immediate warning stating:
    >
    > > Because of the dimensions of this picture, rotating it might
    > > permanently reduce its quality. Rotating a picture
    > > automatically saves it using the original name. To save a
    > > backup copy first, see 'Copy an image' in Help.
    > >
    > > Do you want to proceed?
    > > [ ] In the future do not show me this dialog box.
    > > [Yes] [No]


    That's appropriate. Why IrfanView doesn't warn you I'm not sure - but
    it should.

    > Sure enough, as soon as the picture was rotated, it was modified
    > on the disk drive. My guess is that whatever app. is being invoked
    > by Windows Explorer to display your JPG file is a little smarter
    > than the Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, in that it isn't guessing.


    Windows Picture and Fax Viewer isn't guessing. Oh, and the app being
    invoked by Windows Explorer is almost always Windows Picture and Fax
    Viewer.

    Austin
     
    AustinMN, Sep 14, 2006
    #4
  5. Andy

    Andy Guest

    AustinMN wrote:


    > I love how Windows can explain the actual problem and people insist
    > that something else is wrong.


    Your faith in the accuracy of Windows error messages is touching but
    misplaced. This is not the first time I have used a computer and of
    course I verified that the files were not read only and not in use by
    another application.


    > The camera is never creating incompatible files. It's either you or
    > Windows that's making a mistake.


    I stated "It appears that camera is sometimes creating image files that
    are incompatible with windows explorer." I did not say the camera was
    at fault or that Windows was at fault, just that some files created by
    one are incompatible with the other.

    Research of the Microsoft knowledge base showed several known
    incompatibilities between Microsoft applications, including Picture and
    Fax viewer, and EXIF 2.2 format JPEG files. Pentax DS uses EXIF 2.21.
    The problems have been found since XP service pack 2.

    The image files in question cannot be saved by Picture and Fax viewer
    or by Paint but Photoshop Elements 3.0 and Pentax browser have not
    difficulty with them. After a file has been opened and saved with
    either of these applications it can be rotated by explorer and saved
    with PandF viewer.

    I have requested the MS patch and will report if it fixes the problem.


    Andy
     
    Andy, Sep 15, 2006
    #5
  6. Andy

    Paul Mitchum Guest

    Andy <> wrote:

    > [..]


    A variety of applications you might try using in order to losslessly
    rotate jpeg files: <http://sylvana.net/jpegcrop/losslessapps.html>

    All are based on the venerable jpegtran:
    <http://sylvana.net/jpegcrop/jpegtran/>
     
    Paul Mitchum, Sep 15, 2006
    #6
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