can't make the '3 file boot disk'

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by James Hanley, Oct 6, 2004.

  1. James Hanley

    James Hanley Guest

    I put the 3 files: ntdetect.com, ntldr, boot.ini onto a floppy.
    I set the bios to look at the floppy. I booted, but it doesn't
    recognise it as a boot disk, it says "disk error" as if it's any old
    disk, not a boot disk.

    Attributes are A SHR for ntdetect.com and ntldr
    boot.ini is A SH

    Those are the same attributes that those files have on my hard drive.


    I think I obeyed
    http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=305595
    which is an explanation of how to make this 3 file boot disk thing,
    but I can't get it to work.
    James Hanley, Oct 6, 2004
    #1
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  2. James Hanley

    Spajky Guest

    On 6 Oct 2004 07:54:13 -0700, (James Hanley)
    wrote:

    >I put the 3 files: ntdetect.com, ntldr, boot.ini onto a floppy.
    >I set the bios to look at the floppy. I booted, but it doesn't
    >recognise it as a boot disk, it says "disk error" as if it's any old
    >disk, not a boot disk.
    >
    >Attributes are A SHR for ntdetect.com and ntldr
    >boot.ini is A SH
    >
    >Those are the same attributes that those files have on my hard drive.


    MBR is NOT the same!!! (thats why for NT5 family!)
    --
    Regards, SPAJKY ®
    & visit my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
    "Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"
    E-mail AntiSpam: remove ##
    Spajky, Oct 7, 2004
    #2
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  3. James Hanley

    James Hanley Guest

    Spajky <Spajky##@volja.net> wrote in message news:<>...
    > On 6 Oct 2004 07:54:13 -0700, (James Hanley)
    > wrote:
    >
    > >I put the 3 files: ntdetect.com, ntldr, boot.ini onto a floppy.
    > >I set the bios to look at the floppy. I booted, but it doesn't
    > >recognise it as a boot disk, it says "disk error" as if it's any old
    > >disk, not a boot disk.
    > >
    > >Attributes are A SHR for ntdetect.com and ntldr
    > >boot.ini is A SH
    > >
    > >Those are the same attributes that those files have on my hard drive.

    >
    > MBR is NOT the same!!! (thats why for NT5 family!)


    It's a method described on the MS knowledge base. I think it's meant
    to work with a FAT 12 disk. What am I meant to do with the MBR to make
    it work?

    Article
    "How To Create a Boot Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition in Windows XP"
    http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=305595
    James Hanley, Oct 9, 2004
    #3
  4. James Hanley

    Spajky Guest

    On 9 Oct 2004 11:43:08 -0700, (James Hanley)
    wrote:

    >> MBR is NOT the same!!! (thats why for NT5 family!)

    >
    >It's a method described on the MS knowledge base. I think it's meant
    >to work with a FAT 12 disk. What am I meant to do with the MBR to make
    >it work?


    I don´t know ...
    --
    Regards, SPAJKY ®
    & visit my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
    "Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"
    E-mail AntiSpam: remove ##
    Spajky, Oct 10, 2004
    #4
  5. James Hanley

    Robert Baer Guest

    James Hanley wrote:
    >
    > Spajky <Spajky##@volja.net> wrote in message news:<>...
    > > On 6 Oct 2004 07:54:13 -0700, (James Hanley)
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > >I put the 3 files: ntdetect.com, ntldr, boot.ini onto a floppy.
    > > >I set the bios to look at the floppy. I booted, but it doesn't
    > > >recognise it as a boot disk, it says "disk error" as if it's any old
    > > >disk, not a boot disk.
    > > >
    > > >Attributes are A SHR for ntdetect.com and ntldr
    > > >boot.ini is A SH
    > > >
    > > >Those are the same attributes that those files have on my hard drive.

    > >
    > > MBR is NOT the same!!! (thats why for NT5 family!)

    >
    > It's a method described on the MS knowledge base. I think it's meant
    > to work with a FAT 12 disk. What am I meant to do with the MBR to make
    > it work?
    >
    > Article
    > "How To Create a Boot Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition in Windows XP"
    > http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=305595


    Boot floppies have two hidden files at the start of the data area;
    they are called (for some strange reason) the boot record (maybe because
    they are required to boot, perhaps).
    In essence, take a blank floppy and FORMAT /S (the /S means "transfer
    the system to it).
    Also COMMAND.COM is the third file (name may be different for Win2K).
    Now, i understand that XP has no DOS, and that if it did, that /S does
    not work, and there is no SYS command to transfer those critical boot
    files.
    So, it may not be possible to make an XP boot floppy in XP.
    Robert Baer, Oct 10, 2004
    #5
  6. James Hanley

    James Hanley Guest

    Robert Baer <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > James Hanley wrote:
    > >
    > > Spajky <Spajky##@volja.net> wrote in message news:<>...
    > > > On 6 Oct 2004 07:54:13 -0700, (James Hanley)
    > > > wrote:
    > > >
    > > > >I put the 3 files: ntdetect.com, ntldr, boot.ini onto a floppy.
    > > > >I set the bios to look at the floppy. I booted, but it doesn't
    > > > >recognise it as a boot disk, it says "disk error" as if it's any old
    > > > >disk, not a boot disk.
    > > > >
    > > > >Attributes are A SHR for ntdetect.com and ntldr
    > > > >boot.ini is A SH
    > > > >
    > > > >Those are the same attributes that those files have on my hard drive.
    > > >
    > > > MBR is NOT the same!!! (thats why for NT5 family!)

    > >
    > > It's a method described on the MS knowledge base. I think it's meant
    > > to work with a FAT 12 disk. What am I meant to do with the MBR to make
    > > it work?
    > >
    > > Article
    > > "How To Create a Boot Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition in Windows XP"
    > > http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=305595

    >
    > Boot floppies have two hidden files at the start of the data area;
    > they are called (for some strange reason) the boot record (maybe because
    > they are required to boot, perhaps).
    > In essence, take a blank floppy and FORMAT /S (the /S means "transfer
    > the system to it).
    > Also COMMAND.COM is the third file (name may be different for Win2K).
    > Now, i understand that XP has no DOS, and that if it did, that /S does
    > not work, and there is no SYS command to transfer those critical boot
    > files.
    > So, it may not be possible to make an XP boot floppy in XP.


    Well there is a MS knowledge base article on it posted earlier by me
    in the thread

    I still don't have the answer.

    i'll avoid your 'hidden file' mysticism(it's correct but you're acting
    like a pawn that is sucking up MS propaganda). And i'll ignore the far
    worse bwaha idiot that thinks he knows best and won't help.
    You're right about the /s Do format /? in XP and /s is not listed.
    It's a different format command than the one in 98. That bwahaha idiot
    is making a lot of fuss over nothing. And you're right that there's no
    sys command in xp.

    Yeah, msdos boot disks have 3 'hidden files'. Files that are very
    visible,
    do a dir /a or even look at them in windows (view..folder
    options..2 stupid options need setting - it was 1 option in 98, now xp
    needs 2).
    The files just have their attributes set as Read only and Hidden and
    even Archive. They are not really hidden, it's just a gimmick option
    so that simple users can't mess things up. The logic being that since
    they don't know the files exist, they can't do something stupid like
    delete them or open them in notepad and change them, and pay 200
    dollars for a 'man' to come in to fix it.
    Microsoft is right, but there should be an 'expert' option. (of course
    naming it 'expert' is patronizing, but the greater of 2 evils when the
    alternative is calling it 'non-retard' (the retards will find the
    option and get upset, complain, sue and stop buying MS products).

    Anyhow!!
    The files (whose attributes are set to read only hidden and system and
    even archive) on a dos boot disk are io.sys msdos.sys and
    command.com
    XP does actually have an option to create a start up disk, (right
    click 3.5" A drive) but I found - at least on my windows xp version -
    that it creates a crippled Win ME disk

    ( nobobdy in their right mind would want to use it, it lacks important
    commands like fdisk, and you can't put new ones on from win98 because
    it's a diff version so you get 'incorrect msdos version' and you can't
    put setver on from win98 because it's the wrong version. so setver
    doesn't actually say it's the wrong version - presumably because ms
    thought that'd be too stupid in an ironic way, so it just says nothing
    when you run the win98 setver on an me disk. )

    Anyhow!! This is all a bit off topic (though hopefully of interest). I
    am just trying to follow the article in the MS Knowledge base, whose
    link is earlier in the thread, that says I should format the disk and
    put those 3 files (NOT THE DOS FILES. But 3 XP files) on there and it
    should get me into xp.
    Obviously if I put io.sys msdos.sys and command.com (not 'windows
    xp' command.com God forbid!) on there then i'd go to dos and it'd be a
    dos boot disk. And I don't want that. I want this Win XP 1 floppy boot
    disk with 3 winXP files ntdetect.com and ntldr and boot.ini. Those
    are the only files that should be on the disk (either that or MS is
    unclear)
    James Hanley, Oct 10, 2004
    #6
  7. James Hanley

    Robert Baer Guest

    James Hanley wrote:
    >
    > Robert Baer <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > > James Hanley wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Spajky <Spajky##@volja.net> wrote in message news:<>...
    > > > > On 6 Oct 2004 07:54:13 -0700, (James Hanley)
    > > > > wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > >I put the 3 files: ntdetect.com, ntldr, boot.ini onto a floppy.
    > > > > >I set the bios to look at the floppy. I booted, but it doesn't
    > > > > >recognise it as a boot disk, it says "disk error" as if it's any old
    > > > > >disk, not a boot disk.
    > > > > >
    > > > > >Attributes are A SHR for ntdetect.com and ntldr
    > > > > >boot.ini is A SH
    > > > > >
    > > > > >Those are the same attributes that those files have on my hard drive.
    > > > >
    > > > > MBR is NOT the same!!! (thats why for NT5 family!)
    > > >
    > > > It's a method described on the MS knowledge base. I think it's meant
    > > > to work with a FAT 12 disk. What am I meant to do with the MBR to make
    > > > it work?
    > > >
    > > > Article
    > > > "How To Create a Boot Disk for an NTFS or FAT Partition in Windows XP"
    > > > http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=305595

    > >
    > > Boot floppies have two hidden files at the start of the data area;
    > > they are called (for some strange reason) the boot record (maybe because
    > > they are required to boot, perhaps).
    > > In essence, take a blank floppy and FORMAT /S (the /S means "transfer
    > > the system to it).
    > > Also COMMAND.COM is the third file (name may be different for Win2K).
    > > Now, i understand that XP has no DOS, and that if it did, that /S does
    > > not work, and there is no SYS command to transfer those critical boot
    > > files.
    > > So, it may not be possible to make an XP boot floppy in XP.

    >
    > Well there is a MS knowledge base article on it posted earlier by me
    > in the thread
    >
    > I still don't have the answer.
    >
    > i'll avoid your 'hidden file' mysticism(it's correct but you're acting
    > like a pawn that is sucking up MS propaganda). And i'll ignore the far
    > worse bwaha idiot that thinks he knows best and won't help.
    > You're right about the /s Do format /? in XP and /s is not listed.
    > It's a different format command than the one in 98. That bwahaha idiot
    > is making a lot of fuss over nothing. And you're right that there's no
    > sys command in xp.
    >
    > Yeah, msdos boot disks have 3 'hidden files'. Files that are very
    > visible,
    > do a dir /a or even look at them in windows (view..folder
    > options..2 stupid options need setting - it was 1 option in 98, now xp
    > needs 2).
    > The files just have their attributes set as Read only and Hidden and
    > even Archive. They are not really hidden, it's just a gimmick option
    > so that simple users can't mess things up. The logic being that since
    > they don't know the files exist, they can't do something stupid like
    > delete them or open them in notepad and change them, and pay 200
    > dollars for a 'man' to come in to fix it.
    > Microsoft is right, but there should be an 'expert' option. (of course
    > naming it 'expert' is patronizing, but the greater of 2 evils when the
    > alternative is calling it 'non-retard' (the retards will find the
    > option and get upset, complain, sue and stop buying MS products).
    >
    > Anyhow!!
    > The files (whose attributes are set to read only hidden and system and
    > even archive) on a dos boot disk are io.sys msdos.sys and
    > command.com
    > XP does actually have an option to create a start up disk, (right
    > click 3.5" A drive) but I found - at least on my windows xp version -
    > that it creates a crippled Win ME disk
    >
    > ( nobobdy in their right mind would want to use it, it lacks important
    > commands like fdisk, and you can't put new ones on from win98 because
    > it's a diff version so you get 'incorrect msdos version' and you can't
    > put setver on from win98 because it's the wrong version. so setver
    > doesn't actually say it's the wrong version - presumably because ms
    > thought that'd be too stupid in an ironic way, so it just says nothing
    > when you run the win98 setver on an me disk. )
    >
    > Anyhow!! This is all a bit off topic (though hopefully of interest). I
    > am just trying to follow the article in the MS Knowledge base, whose
    > link is earlier in the thread, that says I should format the disk and
    > put those 3 files (NOT THE DOS FILES. But 3 XP files) on there and it
    > should get me into xp.
    > Obviously if I put io.sys msdos.sys and command.com (not 'windows
    > xp' command.com God forbid!) on there then i'd go to dos and it'd be a
    > dos boot disk. And I don't want that. I want this Win XP 1 floppy boot
    > disk with 3 winXP files ntdetect.com and ntldr and boot.ini. Those
    > are the only files that should be on the disk (either that or MS is
    > unclear)


    I see where you are coming from, but i cannot be of any more
    help,because i do not have WinXP (to fiddle with for an answer).
    Robert Baer, Oct 11, 2004
    #7
  8. James Hanley

    Jim Berwick Guest

    (James Hanley) wrote in
    news::

    > I want this Win XP 1 floppy boot
    > disk with 3 winXP files ntdetect.com and ntldr and boot.ini. Those
    > are the only files that should be on the disk (either that or MS is
    > unclear)
    >


    You are not comprehending that a boot disk is not just a few files needed
    to boot the OS. It requires other changes to the diskette so that the
    computer knows there is an OS on the disk, and knows how to start that OS.
    Also, you don't need a diskette for XP, simply boot off of the XP
    installation CD and choose recovery console.
    Jim Berwick, Oct 11, 2004
    #8
  9. James Hanley

    James Hanley Guest

    Jim Berwick <> wrote in message news:<Xns957F187C1F0FFjimbsnipnet@207.103.26.26>...
    > (James Hanley) wrote in
    > news::
    >
    > > I want this Win XP 1 floppy boot
    > > disk with 3 winXP files ntdetect.com and ntldr and boot.ini. Those
    > > are the only files that should be on the disk (either that or MS is
    > > unclear)
    > >

    >
    > You are not comprehending that a boot disk is not just a few files needed
    > to boot the OS. It requires other changes to the diskette so that the
    > computer knows there is an OS on the disk, and knows how to start that OS.


    I was starting to suspect that. I'll try a few things, like installing
    win2k(nt5) and formatting it with that. And i'll try making the set of
    6 boot disks and doing diskcopy a: a: then deleting the files on the
    destination disk and putting the 3 files on. And i'll try that free
    prog made by the ppl that made ntfsread, that will let me format a
    floppy at ntfs.
    And i'll try norton disk editor and see if that tells me anything -
    i'm sure it will.

    > Also, you don't need a diskette for XP, simply boot off of the XP
    > installation CD and choose recovery console.


    I should be able to use a disk too. a disk is more convenient,
    becasue i may not have the cd at hand and if I don't then a disk can
    be made with files available on the internet.
    I'll implement some of those ideas i mentioned and report back for the
    sake of the archives.
    James Hanley, Oct 11, 2004
    #9
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