Canon set advise ?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by fr@nk, Dec 27, 2008.

  1. fr@nk

    fr@nk Guest

    Hi all, I'm lookin for my " ideal" set and hope on some advise to
    plan my buys
    I want to be able to do macro shots (not specialistic, just nice
    occasional ones), landscape/indoor/porttrait and some zoom for birds
    etc. but also do not want to carry too many lenses and weight
    (pretty much all round phototaking I guess)

    I was thinking to plan for this set:

    5D MII
    16-35 L 2.8 (eur 1239) (but doubting the 24 L 1.4 instead eur 1229)
    50 1.4 (eur 289) (also portrait)
    100 macro 2.8 (eur 429) (also portrait??)
    70-300 4.5-5.6 DO IS USM (eur 1049)
    Later a flash unit


    any thoughts ?
    fr@nk, Dec 27, 2008
    #1
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  2. fr@nk

    Dave Cohen Guest

    fr@nk wrote:
    > Hi all, I'm lookin for my " ideal" set and hope on some advise to
    > plan my buys
    > I want to be able to do macro shots (not specialistic, just nice
    > occasional ones), landscape/indoor/porttrait and some zoom for birds
    > etc. but also do not want to carry too many lenses and weight
    > (pretty much all round phototaking I guess)
    >
    > I was thinking to plan for this set:
    >
    > 5D MII
    > 16-35 L 2.8 (eur 1239) (but doubting the 24 L 1.4 instead eur 1229)
    > 50 1.4 (eur 289) (also portrait)
    > 100 macro 2.8 (eur 429) (also portrait??)
    > 70-300 4.5-5.6 DO IS USM (eur 1049)
    > Later a flash unit
    >
    >
    > any thoughts ?


    Yeah, I don't want to start the stupid P&S vs DSLR nonsense, but I get
    the feeling you just want to do some good all around photography. I
    would be tempted to look at something like the canon sx10-is. It will
    save you a fortune and you can get an external flash. I don't know if
    canon flash can be moved between the sx and dslr line, but if it can
    you'll be ahead of the game if you decide to upgrade.
    You should be able to achieve very good results, being noticeably
    limited only if you need higher iso. If ultimately you decide you really
    need the added horse power you've only spent a fraction of what you
    contemplate spending and you'll still have the sx. I don't believe those
    who claim the p&s can achieve as good or even better results than a
    dslr, but that doesn't mean the p&s can't be quite adequate.
    Dave Cohen
    Dave Cohen, Dec 28, 2008
    #2
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  3. fr@nk wrote:
    > Hi all, I'm lookin for my " ideal" set and hope on some advise to
    > plan my buys
    > I want to be able to do macro shots (not specialistic, just nice
    > occasional ones), landscape/indoor/porttrait and some zoom for birds
    > etc. but also do not want to carry too many lenses and weight
    > (pretty much all round phototaking I guess)
    >
    > I was thinking to plan for this set:
    >
    > 5D MII
    > 16-35 L 2.8 (eur 1239) (but doubting the 24 L 1.4 instead eur 1229)
    > 50 1.4 (eur 289) (also portrait)
    > 100 macro 2.8 (eur 429) (also portrait??)
    > 70-300 4.5-5.6 DO IS USM (eur 1049)
    > Later a flash unit
    >
    >
    > any thoughts ?


    (a) Why Canon rather than Nikon or one of the other DSLR ranges?

    (b) If it /must/ be DSLR and yet compact and lightweight, look at the 4/3
    system.

    (c) As others have suggested, might something like the Panasonic FZ28 or
    Canon SX10 do the job? Less sensitive than the DSLR, they won't work as
    well at high ISO, which may limit your indoor photography, but the swivel
    viewfinder on the Canon may help with the macro work, and it's undoubtedly
    the lightest way to carry round a long (35mm equivalent) lens.

    Cheers,
    David
    David J Taylor, Dec 28, 2008
    #3
  4. fr@nk

    RustY © Guest

    "fr@nk" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi all, I'm lookin for my " ideal" set
    > 5D MII
    > 16-35 L 2.8 (eur 1239) (but doubting the 24 L 1.4 instead eur 1229)
    > 50 1.4 (eur 289) (also portrait)
    > 100 macro 2.8 (eur 429) (also portrait??)
    > 70-300 4.5-5.6 DO IS USM (eur 1049)


    Looks like you've done your research well. But with the price of the pound
    at the moment and the reduction in tax buy from Britain, you could save
    money on those quoted prices,
    RustY ©, Dec 28, 2008
    #4
  5. fr@nk

    Pete D Guest

    "Randy H." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:30:54 -0800 (PST), "fr@nk" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Hi all, I'm lookin for my " ideal" set and hope on some advise to
    >>plan my buys
    >>I want to be able to do macro shots (not specialistic, just nice
    >>occasional ones), landscape/indoor/porttrait and some zoom for birds
    >>etc. but also do not want to carry too many lenses and weight
    >>(pretty much all round phototaking I guess)
    >>
    >>I was thinking to plan for this set:
    >>
    >>5D MII
    >>16-35 L 2.8 (eur 1239) (but doubting the 24 L 1.4 instead eur 1229)
    >>50 1.4 (eur 289) (also portrait)
    >>100 macro 2.8 (eur 429) (also portrait??)
    >>70-300 4.5-5.6 DO IS USM (eur 1049)
    >>Later a flash unit
    >>
    >>
    >>any thoughts ?

    >
    > If macro photography is important to you you'll have to research P&S
    > cameras.
    > With the larger depth-of-field available and the larger apertures at
    > longer zoom
    > settings on the super-zoom models you can finally take hand-held macro
    > photography without needing image-destroying flash.
    >


    Sure you can. Doing that will destroy your soul and turn you into a P&S
    Troll..................
    Pete D, Dec 28, 2008
    #5
  6. fr@nk

    Pete D Guest

    "fr@nk" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi all, I'm lookin for my " ideal" set and hope on some advise to
    > plan my buys
    > I want to be able to do macro shots (not specialistic, just nice
    > occasional ones), landscape/indoor/porttrait and some zoom for birds
    > etc. but also do not want to carry too many lenses and weight
    > (pretty much all round phototaking I guess)
    >
    > I was thinking to plan for this set:
    >
    > 5D MII
    > 16-35 L 2.8 (eur 1239) (but doubting the 24 L 1.4 instead eur 1229)
    > 50 1.4 (eur 289) (also portrait)
    > 100 macro 2.8 (eur 429) (also portrait??)
    > 70-300 4.5-5.6 DO IS USM (eur 1049)
    > Later a flash unit
    >
    >
    > any thoughts ?


    Yes, sounds like a great set of equipment, get the 16-35 unless you really
    think you need the 24mm for something specific, just do it and be happy. I
    would get the flash sooner though and I would look at a 70-20mm F2.8 unless
    you really need the extra reach and in that case look at one of the XX-400mm
    lenses but a Canon 2x converter would do nicely.

    Cheers.

    Pete
    Pete D, Dec 28, 2008
    #6
  7. fr@nk

    fr@nk Guest

    I thought to make one reply to all, hope you don’t mind all.
    Thanks for the suggestions;

    I indeed have also looked at the P&S cams.
    For less than half of the price of the 16-35 you'd buy the SX10IS and
    a little more the XS1IS.

    In fact I had a SX10IS for a week and was surprised with the zoom,
    colour accuracy and disappointed with macro (could not get sharp
    images at all), but this can be just that sample only. I agreed with
    the shop I could return it if I was not 100% happy with it what I did.
    Benefit: carry one device, have a zoom you can't get on a DSLR without
    taking someone else to carry your glass etc. A very important point.

    I'm afraid actually if I buy the SLR set I will not take it every day
    obviously. And if you have a G10 or so you can carry it always without
    problems an important argument.

    If I had plenty of funds one would probably say “buy both…”

    Previously I owned a G2 (I still have this one, and took over 40k
    shots), my kids are using this one now.
    I also had a G9, brilliant on ISO 80, nice features but noise above
    (G2 was better at high ISO but limited to 400 and I loved the 2.0
    lens), I sold this one (G9) recently, hence I'm in the market for a
    new set.

    I played a little with the SX1IS in the shop and if I could test run
    this one especially in macro I would have a better feel (the in-shop
    test was OK).

    Even between the G10 and SX1IS is the problem: the G10 is the easiest
    to carry of the 2 and the SX1IS (or the 10) has the risk you won’t
    take it, although it fits in a big pocket (and I have a big coat it
    would fit into.

    The problem is (This sounds stupid I guess to real photographers) I am
    debating between a top range SLR set with the 5D II and a P&S….The P&S
    one can buy for a 10th of the price of the SLR set…..

    I even was thinking for the price of around 1000 eur. I can buy a 450D
    with 18-55 and 55-250 EF-S IS for both plus a macro EF-S.
    I however think the DSLR full frame sensors soon will be affordable
    and will be available in the mid range market, and if one is investing
    now in –S lenses (for DX format) this money is thrown away. Maybe even
    a bigger argument to buy a P&S now and wait on nice things to come in
    the next year, at the other hand, one can wait forever on a nice
    set…..

    Am I the only one debating such stupid choices ? It feels like “ are
    we eating chips for dinner, or are we going to the 4* Michelin
    restaurant ?”

    It is not even the money, (although it would costs me a while to do
    the purchases and I would start with the body and the 50 and 100 macro
    now for example.)

    I guess I can’t decide and was now looking for my ideal set to help me
    decide in the end.

    I was thinking the 24 above the 16-35 for the 1.4 value so can do
    everything without flash, but would loose on flexibility as the range
    16-35 is very much appealing to me, not only with landscapes but also
    with the strange effects (if done subtle) I’ve seen on the internet.

    I also looked at the four thirds sys, seen oly come with a nice P&S
    sized cam, but when ? and if I invest in their lenses , what is the
    future look like ?

    I know Nikon can be as good as Canon (some think it is the other way
    around) but I feel Canon is a saver choice, as they have more
    specialist products (in case you need them) and they seem to be ahead
    of the pack a while and on-going ? Probably I will get some comment on
    this one, but as a consumer it is what I feel)

    Open for more and any comment ! I like your responses as they help me
    in my process.

    Frank




    On 27 dec, 22:30, "fr@nk" <> wrote:
    > Hi all, I'm lookin for my " ideal"  set and hope on some advise to
    > plan my buys
    > I want to be able to do macro shots (not specialistic, just nice
    > occasional ones), landscape/indoor/porttrait and some zoom for birds
    > etc. but also do not want to carry too many lenses and weight
    > (pretty much all round phototaking I guess)
    >
    > I was thinking to plan for this set:
    >
    > 5D MII
    > 16-35 L 2.8 (eur 1239) (but doubting the 24 L 1.4 instead eur 1229)
    > 50 1.4 (eur 289)  (also portrait)
    > 100 macro 2.8 (eur 429) (also portrait??)
    > 70-300 4.5-5.6 DO IS USM (eur 1049)
    > Later a flash unit
    >
    > any thoughts ?
    fr@nk, Dec 28, 2008
    #7
  8. fr@nk

    Paul Furman Guest

    Re: |GG| Re: Canon set advise ?

    fr@nk wrote:
    >
    > I'm afraid actually if I buy the SLR set I will not take it every day
    > obviously. And if you have a G10 or so you can carry it always without
    > problems an important argument.


    I'm looking at a Panasonic LX3 for a pocketable second camera. It goes
    to 24mm f/2, (but only to 60mm long) and (barely?) fits in a shirt pocket.


    > I even was thinking for the price of around 1000 eur. I can buy a 450D
    > with 18-55 and 55-250 EF-S IS for both plus a macro EF-S.
    > I however think the DSLR full frame sensors soon will be affordable


    Well if you can afford a 5DII now, you are good to go. I don't expect
    full frame to get much cheaper. A little but not much because silicon
    costs exponentially more as you go up in size.

    > and will be available in the mid range market, and if one is investing
    > now in –S lenses (for DX format) this money is thrown away. Maybe even
    > a bigger argument to buy a P&S now and wait on nice things to come in
    > the next year, at the other hand, one can wait forever on a nice
    > set…..
    >
    > Am I the only one debating such stupid choices ? It feels like “ are
    > we eating chips for dinner, or are we going to the 4* Michelin
    > restaurant ?”
    >
    > It is not even the money, (although it would costs me a while to do
    > the purchases and I would start with the body and the 50 and 100 macro
    > now for example.)
    >
    > I guess I can’t decide and was now looking for my ideal set to help me
    > decide in the end.
    >
    > I was thinking the 24 above the 16-35 for the 1.4 value so can do
    > everything without flash, but would loose on flexibility as the range
    > 16-35 is very much appealing to me, not only with landscapes but also
    > with the strange effects (if done subtle) I’ve seen on the internet.


    The 24/1.4 is probably not a great all-around wide angle. These types of
    lenses are very specialized for using wide open and this one is supposed
    to be quite soft in the corners even stopped down so not great for
    landscapes.


    > I also looked at the four thirds sys, seen oly come with a nice P&S
    > sized cam, but when ? and if I invest in their lenses , what is the
    > future look like ?


    Yep.


    > I know Nikon can be as good as Canon (some think it is the other way
    > around) but I feel Canon is a saver choice, as they have more
    > specialist products (in case you need them) and they seem to be ahead
    > of the pack a while and on-going ? Probably I will get some comment on
    > this one, but as a consumer it is what I feel)


    Canon has a bit more choice for mid-range lenses like 70-200 f/4, 400
    f/5.6. Each company has some specialized high-end gear that beats the
    other, the most conspicuous might be Nikon's 14-24... but do you really
    want a huge awkward lens like that? Personally I prefer more compact
    prime lenses that I'm not embarrassed to walk around with <g>. I use a
    lot of vintage manual Nikkors for this.


    > fr@nk wrote:
    >
    >> I want to be able to do macro shots (not specialistic, just nice
    >> occasional ones), landscape/indoor/porttrait and some zoom for birds
    >> etc. but also do not want to carry too many lenses and weight
    >>
    >> 5D MII


    Nice. You could also get an old 5D for now.

    >> 16-35 L 2.8 (eur 1239) (but doubting the 24 L 1.4 instead eur 1229)


    16-35 is a better choice for general use.

    >> 50 1.4 (eur 289)


    f/1.8 is very close and much less $.

    >> (also portrait)


    For head shot portraits perhaps though there is (some) wide angle
    distortion at 50mm. Not enough subject isolation for full body shots.
    But yeah for family & friends indoors & such 50mm is nice.

    >> 100 macro 2.8 (eur 429) (also portrait??)


    Maybe an 85mm f/1.8 or 135mm f/2 for portraits. If you don't have big
    plans for macro, you could use a closeup lens on this and the 50mm. Or
    the cheaper 60mm macro.

    >> 70-300 4.5-5.6 DO IS USM (eur 1049)


    You mentioned birds. That's a really tough specialized task. Personally
    I would want a 300mm f/4 and later a 1.4x teleconverter and I would stay
    away from these slow zooms. Then look at something like a 24-105mm
    f/4L IS USM.


    >> Later a flash unit
    >>
    >> any thoughts ?


    Well I don't know Canon lenses but here's an alternate set I might
    choose roughly in the range you describe based on my comments:

    20mm f/2.8 USM $500
    24-105mm f/4L IS USM $1000
    50mm f/1.8 $75
    500D Close-up $150
    EF 135mm f/2.8 with Softfocus $300
    EF 300mm f/4L IS USM $1200
    $3225

    16-35 L 2.8 $1300
    50 1.4 $300
    100 macro 2.8 $450
    70-300 4.5-5.6 DO IS USM $1200
    $3250


    --
    Paul Furman
    www.edgehill.net
    www.baynatives.com

    all google groups messages filtered due to spam
    Paul Furman, Dec 28, 2008
    #8
  9. fr@nk

    fr@nk Guest

    On 29 dec, 13:41, Greg Andersen <> wrote:
    > On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:46:00 -0800 (PST), "fr@nk" <> wrote:
    > >I thought to make one reply to all, hope you don’t mind all.
    > >Thanks for the suggestions;

    >
    > >I indeed have also looked at the P&S cams.
    > >For less than half of the price of the 16-35 you'd buy the SX10IS and
    > >a little more the XS1IS.

    >
    > >In fact I had a SX10IS for a week and was surprised with the zoom,
    > >colour accuracy and disappointed with macro (could not get sharp
    > >images at all), but this can be just that sample only. I agreed with
    > >the shop I could return it if I was not 100% happy with it what I did.
    > >Benefit: carry one device, have a zoom you can't get on a DSLR without
    > >taking someone else to carry your glass etc. A very important point.

    >
    > ...
    >
    > >Open for more and any comment ! I like your responses as they help me
    > >in my process.

    >
    > >Frank

    >
    > I've been using P&S cameras for professional macro-photography for quite some
    > time now. No other cameras do as well for this field of photography. Since you
    > asked for more input I would add that you shouldn't depend on the camera's own
    > built-in macro mode. While it can work quite well at times (camera model
    > depending), you *do* have to arm yourself with a few accessory lenses to do the
    > job right. You'll have to invest in some high-quality multicoated close-up
    > filter sets. A few achromat macro-lens adapters, and a very very good
    > teleconverter (this last one is important). You should also invest in an
    > inexpensive reverse-lens adapter-ring so you can use your old SLR lenses
    > attached to the front of your camera. They too make exceptional macro-lens
    > attachments for P&S cameras, the same way they are used on DSLRs. (In case you
    > have a difficult time finding them, try this linkhttp://www.adorama.com/Search-Results.tpl?page=searchresults&searchin...
    > )
    >
    > By taking advantage of the extreme depth-of-field of smaller sensors, combined
    > with close-up lenses and a super-zoom P&S's focal length range, you can get
    > excellent images with virtually no distortion. By combining stacked close-up
    > "filters" with a teleconverter (close-up achromats between camera lens and
    > teleconverter), then you can take advantage of comfortable working distances for
    > both you and your subjects, commonly refereed to as tele-macro mode. For
    > skittish insects and other small animals this is a must-have method in your bag
    > of tricks.
    >
    > The large apertures at the long focal-lengths and deep DOF available allow you
    > to do hand-held available-light macro-photography in situations that you hadn't
    > even considered before. I've tried any and all camera and lens scenarios, the
    > P&S camera's deeper DOF and larger apertures at long-zoom settings wins
    > hands-down when it comes to macro-photography. No other cameras work as well.
    >
    > The greater benefits of approaching macro-photography from this direction (small
    > sensor camera + add-on lenses) does have one minor drawback. But thanks to
    > digital photography and excellent editing tools this is easily rectified. The
    > main problem being that stacking too much glass, or if you buy less than
    > top-quality add-on lenses for it, you will introduce some extra
    > lateral-chromatic-aberration in your photos (lens combos depending). This will
    > cause loss of details the further from the center of your image. Using any of
    > the digital editing tools to correct for lateral-CA; like PTLens plugin (the
    > best), TheImagingFactory Debarrelizer plugin, the CA filter in Picture Window
    > Pro or Photoline; all are excellent to remedy this.
    >
    > You will find that by putting the lateral-CA color fringes back where they
    > belong that you regain all the resolution and clarity that you thought you were
    > going to lose.
    >
    > If you are fortunate enough to get a P&S camera that also runs CHDK, then your
    > macro-photography possibilities increase exponentially. With the custom built-in
    > focus bracketing for as many steps and step-size (with 1mm precision) as you
    > want, or by using some of the excellent macro-photography scripts written for
    > CHDK cameras, you then use focus-stacking software to combine the in-focus
    > portions from each shot. There's quite a few focus-stacking utilities listed on
    > the CHDK website just for this purpose. Freeware "Picolay" probably being one of
    > the easiest and best to use. "CombineZM" is also good freeware with a few more
    > features, but not as easy. Results are about the same. With either you get
    > results just as good as when using the commercial software "Helicon Focus".
    >
    > For macro-photography focus-stacking methods, one of the more unique and better
    > scripts for CHDK has you set your front focus point of your macro subject and
    > the back focus point. When you press the shutter it automatically divides up the
    > distance needed to be covered and shoots as many frames as needed, automatically
    > calculated from your aperture and zoom's focal-length settings. You are assured
    > to get the right number of frames with no portion of your subject (in that
    > frame-set) being out of focus.
    >
    > See:http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/UBASIC/Scripts:_yet_another_DOF_stacker


    Thanks for your response, very helpfull
    fr@nk, Dec 29, 2008
    #9
  10. fr@nk

    fr@nk Guest

    On 29 dec, 17:25, Stephen Henning <> wrote:
    > "fr@nk" <> wrote:
    > > In fact I had a SX10IS for a week and was surprised with the zoom,
    > > colour accuracy and disappointed with macro (could not get sharp
    > > images at all), but this can be just that sample only.

    >
    > With the SX10 IS, to get sharp macros you need to either use manual
    > focus or learn how to use Canon's auto focus.  Some macro subjects are
    > very difficult to use with auto focus because the depth of the subject
    > is greater than the depth of field. Also, you must learn the macro range
    > for different focal lengths.  Most long focal lengths are out.  For
    > extreme macro, the macro setting is used and that only works for wide
    > angle shots.
    >
    > I recently setup my SX10 IS on a copy stand so I can do some serious
    > macro photography.  It is working well, but I have to find out the
    > optimum focal length range as I get closer.  For most work, I don't need
    > to use the "MACRO" mode.
    >
    > --
    > Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
    > Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA -http://rhodyman.net


    I had no problem previousely with my G2 (only less close) and also
    with my G9 no problem what-so-ever. See
    http://fnuman.blogspot.com/2008/12/sx10-is-macro-en-sx1-is-eerste-shop.html
    for the results I was getting with the SX10IS (language Dutch, use
    google to translate if you want)

    here some with my G9 (I have sold the camera in the meantime)
    http://fnuman.blogspot.com/2008/07/vakantie-2008-deel-2-flora.html

    and here even with the G2 (but less close)
    http://numan2chicago.blogspot.com/2006/05/danada-park-flora-op-een-paar-m2.html
    fr@nk, Dec 29, 2008
    #10
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