Canon G6 or Digital Rebel or Nikon D70

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by NewsBirdie, Dec 15, 2004.

  1. NewsBirdie

    NewsBirdie Guest

    I'm in the market for a new digital camera. In the past I had an
    Olympus that I really liked until I dropped it and it broke. Then I
    got a Canon S200, mostly for its size not for it's super quality. I
    love the Canon, it's a nice "take anywhere" camera which has served me
    well especially on vacations. But for indoors it sucks. So now I'm
    thinking I'd like to have a really good quality camera that I can use
    at home or when I don't mind lugging something heavy around. Taking
    pictures of friends and family, weekend trips, and also of my artwork.
    One thing I really liked about my Olympus was it's F1.8 lens, which
    enabled me to take pictures in low-light conditions without using the
    flash. This was especially nice for indoors. My Canon S200 is
    practically useless indoors. So this is why I like the Canon G6, it
    has a F2.0 lens. Prices are around $514 mail order.

    Now I'm thinking for $200 more I can get the Canon EOS 300D Digital
    Rebel. It seems to be a better camera. One of the things I noticed
    in the reviews and sample photos is how much better the dSLR cameras
    are in low light. They can increase their ISO without the noise that
    cheaper point & shoot cameras have. That is one aspect I really like.
    However it seems Canon crippled the Digital Rebel which kind of
    bothers me, although I'm not sure I'd need the features like flash
    exposure compensation that are not present.

    For $200 more I can get the Nikon D70. From everything I've read this
    one seems to be a real winner. Some claim that one can take just as
    good photos with a cheaper point & shoot, while others claim that the
    D70 is so much better. One thing I notice is that a lot of the test
    photos on the review sites are done with ample lighting, but in
    reality a lot of the photos I take are in low light. The D70 seems to
    do really well in low light, but how much better than the Canon??
    Also, the D70 is a whopping $430 more than the G6, which is almost
    twice the price! Now that's hard to justify!! ;)

    Finally we're hoping for a new family member and that would give me a
    perfect subject for thousands of photos, which is why I want to make
    sure I get a really good camera.

    Thanks for any input!
    NewsBirdie, Dec 15, 2004
    #1
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  2. NewsBirdie

    Kevin Sinn Guest

    Hi NewsBirdie.

    This question - and many variations of it - has been asked many, many times.
    I suggest you go to www.dpreview.com or www.stevesdigicams.com and read the
    reviews of these cameras. Also check out the forums on these sites -
    there's lots of information concerning the positives and negatives of the
    cameras you're interested in.

    Cheers!
    Kevin

    "NewsBirdie" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I'm in the market for a new digital camera. In the past I had an
    > Olympus that I really liked until I dropped it and it broke. Then I
    > got a Canon S200, mostly for its size not for it's super quality. I
    > love the Canon, it's a nice "take anywhere" camera which has served me
    > well especially on vacations. But for indoors it sucks. So now I'm
    > thinking I'd like to have a really good quality camera that I can use
    > at home or when I don't mind lugging something heavy around. Taking
    > pictures of friends and family, weekend trips, and also of my artwork.
    > One thing I really liked about my Olympus was it's F1.8 lens, which
    > enabled me to take pictures in low-light conditions without using the
    > flash. This was especially nice for indoors. My Canon S200 is
    > practically useless indoors. So this is why I like the Canon G6, it
    > has a F2.0 lens. Prices are around $514 mail order.
    >
    > Now I'm thinking for $200 more I can get the Canon EOS 300D Digital
    > Rebel. It seems to be a better camera. One of the things I noticed
    > in the reviews and sample photos is how much better the dSLR cameras
    > are in low light. They can increase their ISO without the noise that
    > cheaper point & shoot cameras have. That is one aspect I really like.
    > However it seems Canon crippled the Digital Rebel which kind of
    > bothers me, although I'm not sure I'd need the features like flash
    > exposure compensation that are not present.
    >
    > For $200 more I can get the Nikon D70. From everything I've read this
    > one seems to be a real winner. Some claim that one can take just as
    > good photos with a cheaper point & shoot, while others claim that the
    > D70 is so much better. One thing I notice is that a lot of the test
    > photos on the review sites are done with ample lighting, but in
    > reality a lot of the photos I take are in low light. The D70 seems to
    > do really well in low light, but how much better than the Canon??
    > Also, the D70 is a whopping $430 more than the G6, which is almost
    > twice the price! Now that's hard to justify!! ;)
    >
    > Finally we're hoping for a new family member and that would give me a
    > perfect subject for thousands of photos, which is why I want to make
    > sure I get a really good camera.
    >
    > Thanks for any input!
    Kevin Sinn, Dec 15, 2004
    #2
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  3. NewsBirdie

    bob Guest

    "Kevin Sinn" <> wrote in
    news:4pZvd.90$:

    > This question - and many variations of it - has been asked many, many
    > times.
    >


    And each person asking has brought a different set of circumstances, with
    different requirements and different alternatives. I enjoy reading them
    all, as they help me sort out the issues for myself.

    Bob
    bob, Dec 15, 2004
    #3
  4. NewsBirdie

    Todd H. Guest

    (NewsBirdie) writes:

    > Now I'm thinking for $200 more I can get the Canon EOS 300D Digital
    > Rebel. It seems to be a better camera. One of the things I noticed
    > in the reviews and sample photos is how much better the dSLR cameras
    > are in low light. They can increase their ISO without the noise that
    > cheaper point & shoot cameras have. That is one aspect I really like.
    > However it seems Canon crippled the Digital Rebel which kind of
    > bothers me, although I'm not sure I'd need the features like flash
    > exposure compensation that are not present.


    You can get these features back, for free using the Wasia "hacked"
    firmware which reenables ISO3200 and FEC. Lots of people are using
    htem on this group withthe REbel and it works well by all accounts.

    You ask great questions. I own the precursor G2 and the Digital
    Rebel with the kit lens, the 100-300 IS lens, f/1.8 50mm, 550EX
    flash (which works on the G2 too by the way). I can speak to your
    Canon choices a bit.

    The G2's f/2.0 lens does indeed rock, however the G series sensors are
    noticeably noisier at higher iso's than the Rebel. The kit lens that
    comes with the rebel isn't as fast (f/3.5-5.6), but with higher iso's,
    you can get where you want to go in a given amount of light, and if
    you can't... the Canon EOS f/1.8 50mm is a killer value at just $70!
    Presto, you can have your cake and eat it too.

    If picture quality is your primary concern, I'd push you toward the
    Rebel, because for focus predictability and minimization of shutter
    lag, there's really no beating a DSLR. Also, the fun of
    interchangeable lenses is significant. As the new family member
    grows, there may be sporting events that would justify the purchase
    of, I mean, "require" a nice zoom, you see. :cool:

    If portability were more of a concern for you, and you never envision
    wanting to expand with lenses, then the G6 would be better.

    Finally, one thing you haven't mentioned that might be something to
    consider: The G6 can do short low res movies suitable for emailing.
    The Rebel does not.

    Ah hell, just get an A75 and a Rebel!

    Best Regards,
    --
    Todd H.
    http://www.toddh.net/
    Todd H., Dec 15, 2004
    #4
  5. NewsBirdie

    Todd H. Guest

    "Kevin Sinn" <> writes:

    > Hi NewsBirdie.
    >
    > This question - and many variations of it - has been asked many, many times.
    > I suggest you go to www.dpreview.com or www.stevesdigicams.com and read the
    > reviews of these cameras. Also check out the forums on these sites -
    > there's lots of information concerning the positives and negatives of the
    > cameras you're interested in.


    This too, is a forum and he asks specifics about the choice that
    dpreview's coverage won't answer. I'm not sure he deserves to be
    chased away with a well thought out question.

    --
    Todd H.
    http://www.toddh.net/
    Todd H., Dec 15, 2004
    #5
  6. NewsBirdie

    BG250 Guest

    If low light work is very important to you, the SLRs are the way to go. I
    never thought the 300D (Rebel) was crippled. It does what I need it to do
    and makes some great images. With discounts it is the lowest priced dSLR
    with a large sensor to accommodate low light work. Considering one minor
    short coming of the D70 image quality (moiré issue that is actually rare in
    normal shooting), I'd give the image quality advantage to the 300D.

    The D70 has more features and is faster, but as you see, it will be a few
    more $$

    As for the hack for the 300D, I'm not rushing out to get it, but I might
    have a look since it offers mirror lockup. It may give you what you need
    though.
    bg

    "NewsBirdie" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I'm in the market for a new digital camera. In the past I had an
    > Olympus that I really liked until I dropped it and it broke. Then I
    > got a Canon S200, mostly for its size not for it's super quality. I
    > love the Canon, it's a nice "take anywhere" camera which has served me
    > well especially on vacations. But for indoors it sucks. So now I'm
    > thinking I'd like to have a really good quality camera that I can use
    > at home or when I don't mind lugging something heavy around. Taking
    > pictures of friends and family, weekend trips, and also of my artwork.
    > One thing I really liked about my Olympus was it's F1.8 lens, which
    > enabled me to take pictures in low-light conditions without using the
    > flash. This was especially nice for indoors. My Canon S200 is
    > practically useless indoors. So this is why I like the Canon G6, it
    > has a F2.0 lens. Prices are around $514 mail order.
    >
    > Now I'm thinking for $200 more I can get the Canon EOS 300D Digital
    > Rebel. It seems to be a better camera. One of the things I noticed
    > in the reviews and sample photos is how much better the dSLR cameras
    > are in low light. They can increase their ISO without the noise that
    > cheaper point & shoot cameras have. That is one aspect I really like.
    > However it seems Canon crippled the Digital Rebel which kind of
    > bothers me, although I'm not sure I'd need the features like flash
    > exposure compensation that are not present.
    >
    > For $200 more I can get the Nikon D70. From everything I've read this
    > one seems to be a real winner. Some claim that one can take just as
    > good photos with a cheaper point & shoot, while others claim that the
    > D70 is so much better. One thing I notice is that a lot of the test
    > photos on the review sites are done with ample lighting, but in
    > reality a lot of the photos I take are in low light. The D70 seems to
    > do really well in low light, but how much better than the Canon??
    > Also, the D70 is a whopping $430 more than the G6, which is almost
    > twice the price! Now that's hard to justify!! ;)
    >
    > Finally we're hoping for a new family member and that would give me a
    > perfect subject for thousands of photos, which is why I want to make
    > sure I get a really good camera.
    >
    > Thanks for any input!
    BG250, Dec 15, 2004
    #6
  7. NewsBirdie

    Guest

    Thanks for the tip on the firmware hack. Does it prevent upgrading the
    firmware in the event that Canon puts out new upgrades? Or maybe the
    firmware is mature and Canon no longer upgrades it?

    Regarding the EOS f/1.8 50mm lens, I'd say $70 is a good deal. I was
    checking on something equivilant for Nikon and I found the Nikon Normal
    AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D Autofocus Lens for $230 (B&H Photo). That's
    quite a big price difference. I found the Canon lens for $70 at B&H,
    and I reread the dpreview review site and they say the Canon 50mm f1.8
    lens compares very well to the Nikon, which is suprising considering
    the Nikon costs 3 times the price. Can you explain the difference when
    the lens says Xmm - Ymm or just Xmm? I don't understand what that
    means, does it mean that there is no zoom?

    I also looked again at the ISO tests at dpreview.com and they're very
    interesting. the Canon EOS 300D images have such low noise, even at
    high ISO, whereas the other camera (not the G series, I forget) had a
    lot of noise, like all digital cameras I've owned). So I see how the
    dSLR is a big advantage here.

    Overall I thank you very much for your post. You've convinced me to
    take a more serious look at the Canon. Your information on the
    additional fast lens was something I had not considered, and the price
    difference makes the Nikon much more expensive than the Canon. And
    with the firmware, which was I was not aware of, I can get back some
    features Canon disabled. I'm now leaning towards the Canon EOS 300D!

    -Michael

    PS: To the person who told me to read the two sites, I had already read
    them both before making my post. But they don't answer all the
    questions. In fact they recommend the majority of cameras. What they
    cannot do is recommand a camera for a particular person. That requires
    input from fellow enthusiasts, which to me is what this newsgroup is
    all about. When I got my first digital camera almost 10 years ago, I
    helped many people get into the digital camera age (search google for
    "Sanyo VPC-G200" and you'll find my webpage is the first page
    returned). And now things move so fast I need help myself just to stay
    current! ;)
    , Dec 17, 2004
    #7
  8. NewsBirdie

    Bruce Graham Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Regarding the EOS f/1.8 50mm lens, I'd say $70 is a good deal. I was
    > checking on something equivilant for Nikon and I found the Nikon Normal
    > AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D Autofocus Lens for $230 (B&H Photo). That's
    > quite a big price difference. I found the Canon lens for $70 at B&H,
    > and I reread the dpreview review site and they say the Canon 50mm f1.8
    > lens compares very well to the Nikon, which is suprising considering
    > the Nikon costs 3 times the price.
    >

    The Canon 50 1.8 is built to minimise cost and weight. eg. a design
    choice was made to use a plastic rather than a metal mount. This is
    reported to be rugged enough in service but the aethetics offends some.
    They can spend about $350 for the Canon metal mount 50 1.4 (I did, but it
    was an emotional decision which I did not try to justify in
    economic/engineering terms).
    Bruce Graham, Dec 17, 2004
    #8
  9. <> schrieb:
    >
    > Regarding the EOS f/1.8 50mm lens, I'd say $70 is a good deal. I was
    > checking on something equivilant for Nikon and I found the Nikon Normal
    > AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D Autofocus Lens for $230 (B&H Photo). That's
    > quite a big price difference.


    You are comparing apples and oranges. Nikon has an AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D
    which costs about the same as the EF f/1.8 50mm.

    Walter
    Walter Hofmann, Dec 17, 2004
    #9
  10. NewsBirdie

    Darrell Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks for the tip on the firmware hack. Does it prevent upgrading the
    > firmware in the event that Canon puts out new upgrades? Or maybe the
    > firmware is mature and Canon no longer upgrades it?
    >
    > Regarding the EOS f/1.8 50mm lens, I'd say $70 is a good deal. I was
    > checking on something equivilant for Nikon and I found the Nikon Normal
    > AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D Autofocus Lens for $230 (B&H Photo). That's
    > quite a big price difference. I found the Canon lens for $70 at B&H,
    > and I reread the dpreview review site and they say the Canon 50mm f1.8
    > lens compares very well to the Nikon, which is suprising considering
    > the Nikon costs 3 times the price. Can you explain the difference when
    > the lens says Xmm - Ymm or just Xmm? I don't understand what that
    > means, does it mean that there is no zoom?
    >

    The Nikon 50mm f: 1.8 costs $99 usd, 50mm f:1.4 costs $260 usd, the Canon
    50mm f:1.8 is $75 usd and their 50mm f:1.4 is $300 usd. So compare the right
    lenses, not apples vs. oranges.
    Darrell, Dec 17, 2004
    #10
  11. NewsBirdie

    Todd H. Guest

    writes:
    > Thanks for the tip on the firmware hack. Does it prevent upgrading the
    > firmware in the event that Canon puts out new upgrades? Or maybe the
    > firmware is mature and Canon no longer upgrades it?


    This Wasia guy seems to be actively dveeloping the hacked firmware, so
    if something were to change in the stock firmware for whatever reason,
    there's reason to suspect he'd follow suit.

    > Regarding the EOS f/1.8 50mm lens, I'd say $70 is a good deal. I was
    > checking on something equivilant for Nikon and I found the Nikon Normal
    > AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D Autofocus Lens for $230 (B&H Photo). That's
    > quite a big price difference.


    And also a one stop maximum aperture difference. Nikon has a 50mm
    f/1.8 lens for $100. Canon has a 50mm f/1.4 lens for $310.

    > Can you explain the difference when the lens says Xmm - Ymm or just
    > Xmm? I don't understand what that means, does it mean that there is
    > no zoom?


    That's correct. Xmm is a fixed focal length lens. Xmm-Ymm would be
    a lens with a zoom ring.

    Have fun! It's hard to go wrong with Nikon or Canon, but it seems
    there's some money to be saved with the 300D.

    Best Regards,
    --
    Todd H.
    http://www.toddh.net/
    Todd H., Dec 17, 2004
    #11
  12. NewsBirdie

    Guest

    I found out today about their rebate, valid until Jan 31. It's $100
    off for the camera, or if I buy an expensive lens it doubles the
    rebate. Their lenses are around $300 min, so with the rebate that
    would be like $100 off = $200. Not a bad deal. The more I read about
    the Canon the more I'm impressed. I have until Jan 31 to make up my
    mind.

    To the other posters, I'm sorry I got the 1.4 50mm & 1.8 50mm lenses
    mixed up. Now I understand that both Nikon & Canon have both, and that
    1.4 is so much more expensive. That makes sense as well. 1.4 sounds
    really nice, I bet with the high ISO it could almost take pictures in
    the dark!

    -Michael
    , Dec 17, 2004
    #12
  13. NewsBirdie

    JasonEDH Guest

    The difference between the 50mm F/1.4 and 50 F/1.8 is plastic casing
    vs. metal, and the 1.4 has a USM drive motor as opposed to the DC motor
    in the 1.8. I just bought the 28-135mm ISU and the 50mm F/1.4, both to
    take advantage of the GREAT REBATE canon is offering now. $300 off the
    Rebel and $45 off each of the lens. You can't be it!
    JasonEDH, Dec 31, 2004
    #13
  14. NewsBirdie

    Harvey Guest

    "JasonEDH" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The difference between the 50mm F/1.4 and 50 F/1.8 is plastic casing
    > vs. metal, and the 1.4 has a USM drive motor as opposed to the DC motor
    > in the 1.8. I just bought the 28-135mm ISU and the 50mm F/1.4, both to
    > take advantage of the GREAT REBATE canon is offering now. $300 off the
    > Rebel and $45 off each of the lens. You can't be it!
    >


    The store guy told me yesterday the Canon rebate was $100 on the Digital
    Rebel, not $300.
    Harvey, Dec 31, 2004
    #14
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