Canon 400D - DSLR

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by sharkbait999, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. sharkbait999

    sharkbait999 Guest

    With the 5D out already a year, will this be the latest 'full frame' 10.1 MP
    digital camera released from Canon? New f./1.2 50mm too!

    http://www.engadget.com/

    rg
    sharkbait999, Aug 23, 2006
    #1
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  2. sharkbait999

    frederick Guest

    sharkbait999 wrote:
    > With the 5D out already a year, will this be the latest 'full frame' 10.1 MP
    > digital camera released from Canon?


    The image on the website apparently showed it with an EF-S lens, and the
    text APS-C 1.6 and normal crop size sensor dimensions were readable
    before Canon China got their knuckles rapped. But it looks legitimate.
    I wonder how long the US$900-1000 price will hold for these new plastic
    10mp dslrs when all major players actually have product in the market...
    Perhaps not as long as when Canon and Nikon were in a more dominant
    position with 300/350d and D70.
    frederick, Aug 23, 2006
    #2
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  3. frederick <> writes:
    > sharkbait999 wrote:


    >> With the 5D out already a year, will this be the latest 'full frame'
    >> 10.1 MP digital camera released from Canon?

    >
    > The image on the website apparently showed it with an EF-S lens, and
    > the text APS-C 1.6 and normal crop size sensor dimensions were
    > readable before Canon China got their knuckles rapped.


    That'd be the image on this page, I guess:
    http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/9685/canon_eos_400d/

    --
    http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
    Richard Kettlewell, Aug 23, 2006
    #3
  4. sharkbait999

    W (winhag) Guest

    This is very interesting. From a marketing perspective, how could Canon
    offer 10.1 MP with dust cleaning on the 400D while the 30D has 8 MP
    with no dust removal system?
    Surely, if this is accurate, the 30D will be changing to include the
    new sensor system in the near future (Photokina?).

    W


    Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    > frederick <> writes:
    > > sharkbait999 wrote:

    >
    > >> With the 5D out already a year, will this be the latest 'full frame'
    > >> 10.1 MP digital camera released from Canon?

    > >
    > > The image on the website apparently showed it with an EF-S lens, and
    > > the text APS-C 1.6 and normal crop size sensor dimensions were
    > > readable before Canon China got their knuckles rapped.

    >
    > That'd be the image on this page, I guess:
    > http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/9685/canon_eos_400d/
    >
    > --
    > http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
    W (winhag), Aug 23, 2006
    #4
  5. sharkbait999

    wilt Guest

    frederick wrote:
    > sharkbait999 wrote:
    > > With the 5D out already a year, will this be the latest 'full frame' 10.1 MP
    > > digital camera released from Canon?

    >
    > The image on the website apparently showed it with an EF-S lens, and the
    > text APS-C 1.6 and normal crop size sensor dimensions were readable
    > before Canon China got their knuckles rapped. But it looks legitimate.
    > I wonder how long the US$900-1000 price will hold for these new plastic
    > 10mp dslrs when all major players actually have product in the market...
    > Perhaps not as long as when Canon and Nikon were in a more dominant
    > position with 300/350d and D70.


    Infer no prices for any market based upon the price in any other
    market! VAT and other upcharges can be applicable in one market, so
    that their prices are not merely the ratio of monetary exchange rates
    between currencies!
    wilt, Aug 23, 2006
    #5
  6. sharkbait999

    Eric Miller Guest

    W (winhag) wrote:
    > This is very interesting. From a marketing perspective, how could Canon
    > offer 10.1 MP with dust cleaning on the 400D while the 30D has 8 MP
    > with no dust removal system?
    > Surely, if this is accurate, the 30D will be changing to include the
    > new sensor system in the near future (Photokina?).
    >
    > W
    >


    Well, this is just my personal perspective, but this makes my upgrade
    decision very cloudy without knowing any additional details.

    I have a 10D and like to do bird, portrait and other general
    photography. I had been thinking about buying a 5D for travel and
    portraiture and keeping the 10D for birding. I wanted bigger portrait
    prints and more megapixels for mosaics and the full frame for wider
    field of view when I travel. The 5D was looking good.

    The difference in pixel pitch between the 10D and 20D/30D just wasn't
    enough to justify an upgrade for bird photography.

    Now comes a 10 megapixel camera that will apparently cost 1/3 the price
    of the 5D and have significantly higher pixel pitch than the 20D/30D.
    For $2000 less than the 5D, I can continue to live with the APS-C crop
    factor. And, at that much lower price, it looks like, for the time
    being, the new sensor in the 400D will be the best for birding among the
    cameras I've mentioned, as long as it isn't too noisy.

    What I am really hoping is that we will see the 5D move up to the
    current 1DsMkII sensor (when, and if, its 22mp replacement comes out)
    and either the 5D price goes down.
    Eric Miller, Aug 24, 2006
    #6
  7. sharkbait999

    W (winhag) Guest

    > What I am really hoping is that we will see the 5D move up to the
    > current 1DsMkII sensor (when, and if, its 22mp replacement comes out)


    I agree, I think that will happen (5D->16.7 MP). That would give it a
    strong competitive edge in pixel count(and of course full frame vs.
    cropped) against the D200 from Nikon. Since chip cost is primarily
    driven by chip size, on the surface it seems hard to believe that the
    current 1Ds MkII sensor costs all that much more than the current 5D
    sensor. So when the 1Ds -> 22MP, it sure seems like the logical step is
    for the 5D to inherit the old 1DsII sensor.

    Eric Miller wrote:
    > W (winhag) wrote:
    > > This is very interesting. From a marketing perspective, how could Canon
    > > offer 10.1 MP with dust cleaning on the 400D while the 30D has 8 MP
    > > with no dust removal system?
    > > Surely, if this is accurate, the 30D will be changing to include the
    > > new sensor system in the near future (Photokina?).
    > >
    > > W
    > >

    >
    > Well, this is just my personal perspective, but this makes my upgrade
    > decision very cloudy without knowing any additional details.
    >
    > I have a 10D and like to do bird, portrait and other general
    > photography. I had been thinking about buying a 5D for travel and
    > portraiture and keeping the 10D for birding. I wanted bigger portrait
    > prints and more megapixels for mosaics and the full frame for wider
    > field of view when I travel. The 5D was looking good.
    >
    > The difference in pixel pitch between the 10D and 20D/30D just wasn't
    > enough to justify an upgrade for bird photography.
    >
    > Now comes a 10 megapixel camera that will apparently cost 1/3 the price
    > of the 5D and have significantly higher pixel pitch than the 20D/30D.
    > For $2000 less than the 5D, I can continue to live with the APS-C crop
    > factor. And, at that much lower price, it looks like, for the time
    > being, the new sensor in the 400D will be the best for birding among the
    > cameras I've mentioned, as long as it isn't too noisy.
    >
    > What I am really hoping is that we will see the 5D move up to the
    > current 1DsMkII sensor (when, and if, its 22mp replacement comes out)
    > and either the 5D price goes down.
    W (winhag), Aug 24, 2006
    #7
  8. Agreed that such a strategy seems likely. Canon Australia has just
    announced the 400D but with no pricing. Press release is here:
    <http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=653> with a link to
    the full specs.

    I'd say this announcement is the precursor of a number at Photokina.
    Cheers,

    Wayne

    --
    Wayne J. Cosshall
    Publisher, The Digital ImageMaker, http://www.dimagemaker.com/
    Blog http://www.digitalimagemakerworld.com/
    Wayne J. Cosshall, Aug 24, 2006
    #8
  9. sharkbait999

    SimonLW Guest

    "W (winhag)" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > This is very interesting. From a marketing perspective, how could Canon
    > offer 10.1 MP with dust cleaning on the 400D while the 30D has 8 MP
    > with no dust removal system?
    > Surely, if this is accurate, the 30D will be changing to include the
    > new sensor system in the near future (Photokina?).
    >
    > W
    >
    >
    > Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    >> frederick <> writes:
    >> > sharkbait999 wrote:

    >>
    >> >> With the 5D out already a year, will this be the latest 'full frame'
    >> >> 10.1 MP digital camera released from Canon?
    >> >
    >> > The image on the website apparently showed it with an EF-S lens, and
    >> > the text APS-C 1.6 and normal crop size sensor dimensions were
    >> > readable before Canon China got their knuckles rapped.

    >>
    >> That'd be the image on this page, I guess:
    >> http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/9685/canon_eos_400d/
    >>
    >> --
    >> http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

    >

    Very simple marketing. They have two chief competitors with "better"
    cameras.
    -S
    SimonLW, Aug 24, 2006
    #9
  10. sharkbait999

    Annika1980 Guest

    Annika1980, Aug 24, 2006
    #10
  11. "Annika1980" <> wrote:
    > Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> That'd be the image on this page, I guess:
    >> http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/9685/canon_eos_400d/

    >
    > I was about to cry "FAKE!" when I found it on the Canon website.
    >
    > http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=14256
    >
    > or http://tinyurl.com/ojojt
    >
    > Why would they undercut their own 30D so quickly? Build quality aside,
    > who is going to pay double for a 8.2MP camera when they can get a
    > 10.1MP for half the price?


    Maybe they make more money on the Rebels than on the 20D/30D, and they're
    putting their technology where their pocketbook is.

    Also, they _claim_ that they're going to move FF sensor down to the midrange
    camera, so maybe the 20D/30D line is dead. (This wasn't intended to harass
    you, but, come to think of it...)

    But I suspect that it's just that they had to respond to everyone else
    having 10MP, and they just happened to do it in the lowest end camera first.

    It'll be interesting to see how it stacks up against the Sony 10MP chip. If
    it's as good as they're claiming, Sony and Nikon are carrion to feet to
    Spike.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
    David J. Littleboy, Aug 24, 2006
    #11
  12. sharkbait999

    SimonLW Guest

    "Annika1980" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> That'd be the image on this page, I guess:
    >> http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/9685/canon_eos_400d/

    >
    > I was about to cry "FAKE!" when I found it on the Canon website.
    >
    > http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=14256
    >
    > or http://tinyurl.com/ojojt
    >
    > Why would they undercut their own 30D so quickly? Build quality aside,
    > who is going to pay double for a 8.2MP camera when they can get a
    > 10.1MP for half the price?
    >

    Canon sees the 10 megapixel threat from Sony and Nikon. They're going to
    have that hole plugged in a hurry, you betcha. Canon stunned the world by
    releasing the first dSLR under $1k that included a lens and delivered image
    quality rivaling or bettering the more costly competition. Canon's the
    largest dSLR producer and they're not going to lay flat while the
    competition pushes forth in the hot consumer dSLR market. It's been about a
    year and a half since the XT/350D came out, so its about time.

    I've been using the 6MP Rebel for almost 3 years now. There has been no
    reason for me to upgrade to 8mp. 10mp would make me upgrade! It is an
    awkward situation for the 30D. Canon really does need to keep a higher end
    APS sensor body in the line if they are going to have a nice set of EF-S
    lenses for it. I would think the 40D or whatever will be is around the
    corner. The 30D was just a simple upgrade.
    -S
    SimonLW, Aug 24, 2006
    #12
  13. sharkbait999

    W (winhag) Guest

    I agree, it is an odd situation for the quite new 30D to be
    'outclassed' by the consumer 400D in sensor technology. I'm sure we
    will see more changes soon in the 30D and perhaps even 5D(16.7MP?) and
    1Ds(22MP?). Canon will also soon start introducing OLED displays on its
    cameras.....and then there is the 'announcement' they made some time
    back in Pop Photo magazine regarding sensors with significantly more
    lattitude.

    W

    SimonLW wrote:
    > "Annika1980" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    > >
    > >>
    > >> That'd be the image on this page, I guess:
    > >> http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/9685/canon_eos_400d/

    > >
    > > I was about to cry "FAKE!" when I found it on the Canon website.
    > >
    > > http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=14256
    > >
    > > or http://tinyurl.com/ojojt
    > >
    > > Why would they undercut their own 30D so quickly? Build quality aside,
    > > who is going to pay double for a 8.2MP camera when they can get a
    > > 10.1MP for half the price?
    > >

    > Canon sees the 10 megapixel threat from Sony and Nikon. They're going to
    > have that hole plugged in a hurry, you betcha. Canon stunned the world by
    > releasing the first dSLR under $1k that included a lens and delivered image
    > quality rivaling or bettering the more costly competition. Canon's the
    > largest dSLR producer and they're not going to lay flat while the
    > competition pushes forth in the hot consumer dSLR market. It's been about a
    > year and a half since the XT/350D came out, so its about time.
    >
    > I've been using the 6MP Rebel for almost 3 years now. There has been no
    > reason for me to upgrade to 8mp. 10mp would make me upgrade! It is an
    > awkward situation for the 30D. Canon really does need to keep a higher end
    > APS sensor body in the line if they are going to have a nice set of EF-S
    > lenses for it. I would think the 40D or whatever will be is around the
    > corner. The 30D was just a simple upgrade.
    > -S
    W (winhag), Aug 24, 2006
    #13
  14. sharkbait999

    Bill Hilton Guest


    >Annika1980 wrote:
    >
    > Why would they undercut their own 30D so quickly?


    Because with only 8 Mpixels Canon was lagging behind Nikon in the
    megapixel race.
    Bill Hilton, Aug 24, 2006
    #14
  15. sharkbait999

    Bill Funk Guest

    On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 22:37:18 +0900, "David J. Littleboy"
    <> wrote:

    >It'll be interesting to see how it stacks up against the Sony 10MP chip. If
    >it's as good as they're claiming, Sony and Nikon are carrion to feet to
    >Spike.


    That's a phrase I've never heard before.
    What does "carrion to feet to Spike" mean?
    --
    Bill Funk
    replace "g" with "a"
    Bill Funk, Aug 24, 2006
    #15
  16. Self-cleaning sensors (was Re: Canon 400D - DSLR)

    Annika1980 wrote:

    >
    > Richard Kettlewell wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> That'd be the image on this page, I guess:
    >> http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/9685/canon_eos_400d/

    >
    > I was about to cry "FAKE!" when I found it on the Canon website.
    >
    >

    http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=14256

    Just wonder... where does the dust go when using ultra-sound to clean the
    sensor?

    --
    Jørn Dahl-Stamnes
    http://www.dahl-stamnes.net/Foto/
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn?= Dahl-Stamnes, Aug 24, 2006
    #16
  17. "Bill Funk" <> wrote:
    > "David J. Littleboy" <> wrote:
    >
    >>It'll be interesting to see how it stacks up against the Sony 10MP chip.
    >>If
    >>it's as good as they're claiming, Sony and Nikon are carrion to feet to
    >>Spike.

    >
    > That's a phrase I've never heard before.
    > What does "carrion to feet to Spike" mean?


    Well, it means "dead meat", but if you don't know who Spike is, you've not
    been paying attention.

    The following are Bret's.

    http://www.pbase.com/image/65610285
    http://www.pbase.com/bret/image/62945383
    http://www.pbase.com/bret/image/62942778

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
    David J. Littleboy, Aug 24, 2006
    #17
  18. sharkbait999

    VK Guest

    W (winhag) wrote:
    > I agree, it is an odd situation for the quite new 30D to be
    > 'outclassed' by the consumer 400D in sensor technology.


    Not really - Canon does have a history of releasing innovations
    regardless of where it falls in the pecking order, going back to film
    days.

    I recall them releasing a Rebel body with more AF points than the Elan
    line, and a few other similar examples - and in the digital world,
    didnt the 1D continue at 4MP even after 6MP mid-end bodies were
    released?

    Canon's body strategy seems to be more or less clear - the 3-digit and
    2-digit bodies are going to be APS-C, and the single-digit bodies are
    going to be full frame. Makes sense.

    Vandit
    VK, Aug 24, 2006
    #18
  19. sharkbait999

    Bill Hilton Guest

    Re: Self-cleaning sensors (was Re: Canon 400D - DSLR)

    >Jørn Dahl-Stamnes wrote:
    > Just wonder... where does the dust go when using ultra-sound to clean the
    > sensor?
    >



    On the Oly 4/3 models there's supposedly a 'sticky' strip below the
    sensor so the dust falls on that and sticks. I guess periodically you
    have to get the strip replaced?
    Bill Hilton, Aug 24, 2006
    #19
  20. sharkbait999

    W (winhag) Guest

    I stand corrected.

    VK wrote:
    > W (winhag) wrote:
    > > I agree, it is an odd situation for the quite new 30D to be
    > > 'outclassed' by the consumer 400D in sensor technology.

    >
    > Not really - Canon does have a history of releasing innovations
    > regardless of where it falls in the pecking order, going back to film
    > days.
    >
    > I recall them releasing a Rebel body with more AF points than the Elan
    > line, and a few other similar examples - and in the digital world,
    > didnt the 1D continue at 4MP even after 6MP mid-end bodies were
    > released?
    >
    > Canon's body strategy seems to be more or less clear - the 3-digit and
    > 2-digit bodies are going to be APS-C, and the single-digit bodies are
    > going to be full frame. Makes sense.
    >
    > Vandit
    W (winhag), Aug 24, 2006
    #20
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