Cannon G3 red eye reduction? ? ?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Ajay Goel, Sep 1, 2003.

  1. Ajay Goel

    Ajay Goel Guest

    Hi, I am planning on purchasing my first digital camera and have my
    eyes on Cannon PowerShor G3. I have heard that this has bad red eye
    reduction and photos taken in low light has this problem. Is this
    true? Is there any workaround to this? Are there DC with better red
    eye reductions or it's common with all DC?
    Thanks
     
    Ajay Goel, Sep 1, 2003
    #1
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  2. Ajay Goel

    JD Guest

    > Hi, I am planning on purchasing my first digital camera and have my
    > eyes on Cannon PowerShor G3. I have heard that this has bad red eye
    > reduction and photos taken in low light has this problem. Is this
    > true?


    False, it has an anti-redeye feature, but I have not had to use it yet
    as I have yet to even find need to use the flash even at night. I
    suppose if I were taking a shot of someone in a pitch black closet or
    storage room where I would need to use the flash with this camera I
    would then just press the flash button so the anti-redeye icon came on
    and everything would be fine.

    > Is there any workaround to this?


    The included software that comes free with the G3, (even comes with
    photoshop 5.0, free) would get redeye out of any picture even if taken
    with another camera.
     
    JD, Sep 1, 2003
    #2
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  3. Ajay Goel

    Mark B. Guest

    "Ajay Goel" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi, I am planning on purchasing my first digital camera and have my
    > eyes on Cannon PowerShor G3. I have heard that this has bad red eye
    > reduction and photos taken in low light has this problem. Is this
    > true? Is there any workaround to this? Are there DC with better red
    > eye reductions or it's common with all DC?
    > Thanks


    Pictures taken with a small digicam with built-in flash are always going to
    have a good chance of creating red eye, particularly in low light. The
    workaround is to get an external flash - getting the light source further
    away from the lens is the trick. I highly recommend the Canon 420EX, it's
    very well balanced for the G3.

    Mark
     
    Mark B., Sep 1, 2003
    #3
  4. Ajay Goel

    Jim Townsend Guest

    Ajay Goel wrote:

    > Hi, I am planning on purchasing my first digital camera and have my
    > eyes on Cannon PowerShor G3. I have heard that this has bad red eye
    > reduction and photos taken in low light has this problem. Is this
    > true? Is there any workaround to this? Are there DC with better red
    > eye reductions or it's common with all DC?
    > Thanks


    Red eye is caused by the flash being to close to the lens. The light entering
    the subjects eye is always reflected straight back and shows up as red.

    The pre-flash they call red eye reduction is just as ineffective in all cameras
    that use it.

    The G3 takes an external flash.. Used properly, you can *completely* avoid red
    eye.
     
    Jim Townsend, Sep 1, 2003
    #4
  5. Ajay Goel

    JD Guest

    > Red eye is caused by the flash being to close to the lens. The light entering
    > the subjects eye is always reflected straight back and shows up as red.


    Because the iris in their eyes are wide open from the low light.

    > The pre-flash they call red eye reduction is just as ineffective in all cameras
    > that use it.


    It causes the iris in the eyes to close down from the brightness of it shining in
    their eyes before the picture is taken, thus not allowing the light of the flash to
    reflect back to the camera because now their iris is not wide open. VERY
    effective.
     
    JD, Sep 2, 2003
    #5
  6. Ajay Goel

    picopirate Guest

    "Ajay Goel" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi, I am planning on purchasing my first digital camera and have my
    > eyes on Cannon PowerShor G3. I have heard that this has bad red eye
    > reduction and photos taken in low light has this problem. Is this
    > true? Is there any workaround to this? Are there DC with better red
    > eye reductions or it's common with all DC?
    > Thanks


    I just purchased the G3 a few weeks ago, my first few shots did have some
    red-eye even though the red-eye reduction was on. The reason was, the flash
    still went off even in a fairly well lit room so the red-eye reduction
    (shining a light in the eyes of the subjects) did not close their irises
    that much. The red-eye reduction does work pretty good when its pretty dark,
    however. I the problem is more with the flash going off when its not really
    needed as opposed to the red eye reduction. I recommend disabling the
    auto-flash, getting an external flash, or perhaps just rigging a mirror in
    front the flash so you can bounce it off the ceiling (I actually did that
    with an old camera with somewhat successful results; only worked in small
    rooms). Anyway, this is just a small inconvenience of the G3 which is one
    of the best cameras in its class. When I was playing around with my G3 I
    closed all the curtains and took a picture of my living room lit by a single
    candle. This camera is great for low light and night shots and consequently
    you can in many cases get by without using the flash.
     
    picopirate, Sep 2, 2003
    #6
  7. Ajay Goel

    JD Guest

    > I just purchased the G3 a few weeks ago, my first few shots did have some
    > red-eye even though the red-eye reduction was on. The reason was, the flash
    > still went off even in a fairly well lit room so the red-eye reduction
    > (shining a light in the eyes of the subjects) did not close their irises
    > that much.


    If the room was that well lit, no flash would have been needed at all. With
    my previous camera, I needed flash all the time for indoor shots, now with the
    G3, I have yet to use the flash at all.

    > The red-eye reduction does work pretty good when its pretty dark,
    > however. I the problem is more with the flash going off when its not really
    > needed as opposed to the red eye reduction.


    This is true. Everytime I turn on the camera, I have to remember to turn the
    flash off. I have yet to check if there is any permanent off selection in the
    menu somewhere.

    > Anyway, this is just a small inconvenience of the G3 which is one
    > of the best cameras in its class. When I was playing around with my G3 I
    > closed all the curtains and took a picture of my living room lit by a single
    > candle. This camera is great for low light and night shots and consequently
    > you can in many cases get by without using the flash.


    I second that. I have never needed the flash for any shot yet, and I do a lot
    of indoor and night time shooting.
     
    JD, Sep 2, 2003
    #7
  8. Who really cares about red eyes on digital images? Almost every image
    editing software has a feature to fix red eyes.
    Actually one of the best working ones I used is in Adobe Album software,
    relatively cheap image organizing program.

    "Gary" <satellite77769@(removeme)hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:W7U4b.74857$...
    > I have a G3 here that I have taken almost 2000 pictures with in the last
    > month. Only one pic came out with red eyes.
    >
    >
    > "Ajay Goel" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hi, I am planning on purchasing my first digital camera and have my
    > > eyes on Cannon PowerShor G3. I have heard that this has bad red eye
    > > reduction and photos taken in low light has this problem. Is this
    > > true? Is there any workaround to this? Are there DC with better red
    > > eye reductions or it's common with all DC?
    > > Thanks

    >
    >
     
    Salle ®²ºº², Sep 2, 2003
    #8
  9. Ajay Goel

    JD Guest

    "Salle ®²ºº²" wrote:

    > Who really cares about red eyes on digital images? Almost every image
    > editing software has a feature to fix red eyes.


    This is the most intelligent reply to this thread yet.

    And the G3 comes with Photoshop 5.0 included free. So if the redeye feature
    in the camera didn't get it, you have the included software to make sure you
    get it afterwards.
     
    JD, Sep 2, 2003
    #9
  10. Ajay Goel

    Lionel Guest

    Word has it that on 1 Sep 2003 11:44:13 -0700, in this august forum,
    (Ajay Goel) said:

    >Hi, I am planning on purchasing my first digital camera and have my
    >eyes on Cannon PowerShor G3. I have heard that this has bad red eye
    >reduction and photos taken in low light has this problem. Is this
    >true? Is there any workaround to this? Are there DC with better red
    >eye reductions or it's common with all DC?


    The latter. You're pretty much guaranteed to get red eye with any camera
    that has a built-in flash, because the flash is so close to the lens
    that the reflection from the retina comes straight back at the lens.
    The best way to prevent red eye is to use an external flash gun. For the
    G3, the 220EX or 420EX would probably be good choices.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Lionel, Sep 2, 2003
    #10
  11. Ajay Goel

    Mark B. Guest

    "JD" <> wrote in message news:...
    > "Salle ®²ºº²" wrote:
    >
    > > Who really cares about red eyes on digital images? Almost every image
    > > editing software has a feature to fix red eyes.

    >
    > This is the most intelligent reply to this thread yet.
    >
    > And the G3 comes with Photoshop 5.0 included free. So if the redeye

    feature
    > in the camera didn't get it, you have the included software to make sure

    you
    > get it afterwards.
    >
    >
    >


    This is true, but if you come back from a party/gathering/wedding/bar
    mitzvah/etc. with a dozen shots showing redeye, would you rather fix it in
    PS after or not have it there to begin with. There are things I don't mind
    doing that I never bothered with in film - fixing white balance, adjusting
    the histogram, curves, USM mask, etc. And then there's things I'd rather
    avoid doing if I can help it.

    Mark
     
    Mark B., Sep 3, 2003
    #11
  12. Ajay Goel

    Ajay Goel Guest

    Thanks a lot guys, it makes me feel a lot better now about my choice.

    JD <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > "Salle ®²ºº²" wrote:
    >
    > > Who really cares about red eyes on digital images? Almost every image
    > > editing software has a feature to fix red eyes.

    >
    > This is the most intelligent reply to this thread yet.
    >
    > And the G3 comes with Photoshop 5.0 included free. So if the redeye feature
    > in the camera didn't get it, you have the included software to make sure you
    > get it afterwards.
     
    Ajay Goel, Sep 3, 2003
    #12
  13. Ajay Goel

    FredBillie Guest

    << From: JD
    Date: Tue, Sep 2, 2003 12:58 PM
    Message-id: <>

    "Salle ®2ºº2" wrote:

    > Who really cares about red eyes on digital images? Almost every image
    > editing software has a feature to fix red eyes.


    This is the most intelligent reply to this thread yet.

    And the G3 comes with Photoshop 5.0 included free. So if the redeye feature
    in the camera didn't get it, you have the included software to make sure you
    get it afterwards.

    >><BR><BR>

    Ah, were Red eye the only problem. But, lots of times you will get a flash
    glare or wash out where the details of the eye are gone and no red eye tool can
    restore what isn’t there. Then you have to go through the laborious process
    of cloning the eye or the like.
     
    FredBillie, Sep 3, 2003
    #13
  14. Ajay Goel

    JD Guest

    > >It causes the iris in the eyes to close down from the brightness of it shining in
    > >their eyes before the picture is taken, thus not allowing the light of the flash to
    > >reflect back to the camera because now their iris is not wide open. VERY
    > >effective.

    >
    > It sounds great in theory, but I've found it to be near useless in
    > practice. Worse, it annoys the hell out of your subjects.


    It doesn't annoy them as much as the much brighter FLASH does! Let's keep things in
    perspective.

    The reason I don't use flash at all, is that it blinds people, is rude and immediately
    scares and gets the attention of all people in the area that now know you are taking
    pictures, and it makes photos look unnatural. You can usually tell in a photo when a
    flash was used.

    Before someone comes back with silly arguments, YES not always, YES a professional can
    use external flashes and do a better job, and YES sometimes flashes are great and needed
    for many people. I just choose not to use a flash for my opinions stated.
     
    JD, Sep 3, 2003
    #14
  15. Ajay Goel

    JD Guest

    > The latter. You're pretty much guaranteed to get red eye with any camera
    > that has a built-in flash, because the flash is so close to the lens
    > that the reflection from the retina comes straight back at the lens.
    > The best way to prevent red eye is to use an external flash gun.


    Or use the red eye feature of the camera to close people's irises so that
    the light can't reach or reflect off the retina. Better yet, don't use
    the flash at all. See how the shot turns out without it first.
     
    JD, Sep 3, 2003
    #15
  16. JD wrote:

    > > >It causes the iris in the eyes to close down from the brightness of it shining in
    > > >their eyes before the picture is taken, thus not allowing the light of the flash to
    > > >reflect back to the camera because now their iris is not wide open. VERY
    > > >effective.

    > >
    > > It sounds great in theory, but I've found it to be near useless in
    > > practice. Worse, it annoys the hell out of your subjects.

    >
    > It doesn't annoy them as much as the much brighter FLASH does! Let's keep things in
    > perspective.
    >
    > The reason I don't use flash at all, is that it blinds people, is rude and immediately
    > scares and gets the attention of all people in the area that now know you are taking
    > pictures, and it makes photos look unnatural. You can usually tell in a photo when a
    > flash was used.
    >
    > Before someone comes back with silly arguments, YES not always, YES a professional can
    > use external flashes and do a better job, and YES sometimes flashes are great and needed
    > for many people. I just choose not to use a flash for my opinions stated.


    Ideally? Bounce, whenever possible. It eats batteries because it uses a BUNCH of the
    flash's stored energy each time, but with NiMH batteries getting better (and cheaper) every
    day, who cares?

    Any of the larger EX's will do; I have a 380EX that's never let me down, and a 420 just
    provides that extra punch.
     
    Robert A. Barr, Sep 3, 2003
    #16
  17. Ajay Goel

    JD Guest

    > Ideally? Bounce, whenever possible. It eats batteries because it uses a BUNCH of the
    > flash's stored energy each time,


    Ah, yes another good reason I left out why I never use the flash.

    > but with NiMH batteries getting better (and cheaper) every
    > day, who cares?


    I do, they still don't last long enough. I am used to consumer products where I buy some
    batteries for it and 3 - 5 years later I have to replace them. These cameras really take
    up a lot of power and run out way too fast.
     
    JD, Sep 3, 2003
    #17
  18. Ajay Goel

    Lionel Guest

    Word has it that on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:45:38 GMT, in this august forum,
    JD <> said:

    >> It sounds great in theory, but I've found it to be near useless in
    >> practice. Worse, it annoys the hell out of your subjects.

    >
    >It doesn't annoy them as much as the much brighter FLASH does! Let's keep things in
    >perspective.
    >
    >The reason I don't use flash at all, is that it blinds people, is rude and immediately
    >scares and gets the attention of all people in the area that now know you are taking
    >pictures, and it makes photos look unnatural. You can usually tell in a photo when a
    >flash was used.


    I'm not sure that I'm seeing your point here. I also dislike flash, &
    avoid it wherever possible, but one doesn't always have a choice. Having
    pointed that out, I've found that the red-eye reduction lamp makes a bad
    thing worse.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Lionel, Sep 4, 2003
    #18
  19. Ajay Goel

    JD Guest

    > I'm not sure that I'm seeing your point here. I also dislike flash, &
    > avoid it wherever possible, but one doesn't always have a choice.


    Right. Agreed.

    > Having
    > pointed that out, I've found that the red-eye reduction lamp makes a bad
    > thing worse.


    And my point was that I've found it makes a bad thing better.

    Yes it annoys the subjects twice, but it is the end result of the photograph that is more
    important. The annoyance caused by the red-eye light will not be remembered years later,
    most likely not even 15 minutes later, but the photograph will be around for centuries if
    allowed to exist.
     
    JD, Sep 4, 2003
    #19
  20. Ajay Goel

    clackey Guest

    Mark B. wrote:
    > "Ajay Goel" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Hi, I am planning on purchasing my first digital camera and have my
    >> eyes on Cannon PowerShor G3. I have heard that this has bad red eye
    >> reduction and photos taken in low light has this problem. Is this
    >> true? Is there any workaround to this? Are there DC with better red
    >> eye reductions or it's common with all DC?
    >> Thanks

    >
    > Pictures taken with a small digicam with built-in flash are always going to
    > have a good chance of creating red eye, particularly in low light. The
    > workaround is to get an external flash - getting the light source further
    > away from the lens is the trick. I highly recommend the Canon 420EX, it's
    > very well balanced for the G3.
    >
    > Mark
    >
    >

    Mark,
    I am a new owner of a G3 and 420EX. I hope you can help me get a Sanity Check.

    I may have a defective unit, but don't dare guess if it is the camera or the 420EX.

    Have you used your 420EX in any of these camera modes?
    - Auto
    - P (AE)
    - Tv

    My problem seems to "Flash fires" but is not in sync with the shutter, so picture receives no flash ilumination.

    In Manual mode where I can control aperture and Flash power, I can get exposure pretty good, but it seems to me that the
    flash is completely manual.

    EXIF data shows flash to be "on" and E-TTL.

    The 420EX Users Manual, Page 18, says the camera is set to 1/60 sec. when camera is set to "Auto" or "P" mode while
    using the 420EX. I am convinced that is not happening on my camera (based on EXIF data).

    Camera otherwise is very impressive. Images in a variety of awkward situations are quite awsome. The internal flash is
    impecable. The range of the internal flash, even at maximum Zoom indoors, is quite impressive.

    Carl in Raleigh
     
    clackey, Sep 5, 2003
    #20
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