Can volatile RAM still contain evidence?

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by GreenXenon, Dec 22, 2008.

  1. GreenXenon

    GreenXenon Guest

    Hi:

    Can informating stored in volatile RAM still be recovered after the
    computer is turned off? I remember reading something on a forensics
    website that the evidence is not only on the platters of the HDD but
    also on the disk cache chips and the volatile RAM chips in the PC.

    Even if the PC is turned-off, the chips still contain sufficient
    amount of info that can be recoverd by top-secret devils of the NSA
    and Central Security Service. Apparenty they have some devices that
    can read EXTREMELY-WEAK electric signals from volatile RAM chips and
    recover what was lost then the power was turned-off. Is this true? If
    so, how to prevent this while still expressing my socially-
    unacceptable opinions on the internet?

    Are there any RAM chips that are PURELY-VOLATILE and that will lose
    all info when power is lost? If so, I'm thinking of buying a PC which
    uses these chips. As soon as I turn off the comp, no info remains at
    all.

    This is another reason I was discussing about RAM chips in another
    thread a few of minutes ago.

    Please note that I do not plan to write anything illegal on the net --
    no threats, no confessions, etc. However, I would like to express my
    opinions in chat rooms w/out facing negative consequences.

    My opinions differ from that of the general public and I want to
    forcefully-express my vulgar, obscene, and socially-unacceptable
    opinions in chat rooms [such as Yahoo-chat, ICQ, IRC, chat-zone, and
    spin-chat] without being falsely-accused of crime.

    While what I would like to write in chat-rooms is not illegal, public
    pressure would force authorities to do something. Public pressure
    might also force the enactment of new unjust laws possibly rendering
    my speeches illegal in the future.

    Sometimes authorities are forced to arrest and imprison innocent law-
    abiding citizens because of public outrage. At heart, the authorites
    don't want to jail innocent people but they have no choice. Society,
    being the evil scum it is, will overpower the police and force them to
    illegaly imprison me. Crowds of sadistic human beings will overturn
    police cars and start harming the police, if the police don't
    illegaly-
    arrest me. Sort of like a lynch-mob mentality against the police and
    me.

    I need protection from this unlawful, public-forced treatment.

    Sometimes society and the law are on opposite ends. This is one of
    them.

    That is why I would like to get a PC that doesn't have any RAM that is
    "purely-volatile" by my above definition.

    Because I am a complete law-abiding citizen, I have nothing to hide
    from the police. However, I have everything to hide from the public
    and society.

    In lynch-mob situations, police are powerless to do what they know is
    right. The cops are helpless must be a slave to the evil society.

    I respect the law, but I hate society.

    For the HDD platters, even after you thoroughly delete, overwrite and
    format a gazillion times, you're still on thin ice. The NSA and
    Central Security Service have equipment they can use to recover data
    from the magnetic platters on the HDD. The equipment they use is
    *extremely* sensitive to *extremely* weak magnetic signals on the
    magnetic platters. The only way to truly get rid off the data is to
    heat the platters beyond Curie point. The cache chips in the HD might
    also need to be burnt.

    I am worried similar sensitive devices could be used to read the
    extremely-weak electric signals present in the volatile RAM chips and
    disc cache chips.

    Due to the laws of physics, I suspect that the volatile RAM info might
    -- to some extent -- exist even after the system is turned off. Sure
    the wattage of those electric signals maybe *extremely*-low after shut
    down, but that does not mean the signals are not there anymore -- they
    are just way too weak to be detected and analyzed by ordinary means.
    At the quantum level, the differences in wattage levels which
    constitute what was the original volatile RAM info will continue to be
    there in the chip.

    I'm hoping this is just my paranoia and not true.

    Also, the disc cache chips are another grave concern to me, they also
    store RAM -- just not nearly as much as the platters of the HDD.

    I wonder if there are any PCs for sale anywhere that are free of any
    NVRAM devices and still work. The disdvantage of this is that nothing
    can be saved. The advantage is, malware can't be planted in it. Such a
    PC could connect to the internet and store text on websites -- for
    example, I could 'save' something by emailing it to myself and then
    accessing it later.


    Thanks,

    Radium
    GreenXenon, Dec 22, 2008
    #1
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  2. GreenXenon

    RobV Guest

    GreenXenon wrote:
    > Hi:
    >
    > Can informating stored in volatile RAM still be recovered after the
    > computer is turned off? I remember reading something on a forensics
    > website that the evidence is not only on the platters of the HDD but
    > also on the disk cache chips and the volatile RAM chips in the PC.
    >
    > Even if the PC is turned-off, the chips still contain sufficient
    > amount of info that can be recoverd by top-secret devils of the NSA
    > and Central Security Service. Apparenty they have some devices that
    > can read EXTREMELY-WEAK electric signals from volatile RAM chips and
    > recover what was lost then the power was turned-off. Is this true? If
    > so, how to prevent this while still expressing my socially-
    > unacceptable opinions on the internet?
    >
    > Are there any RAM chips that are PURELY-VOLATILE and that will lose
    > all info when power is lost? If so, I'm thinking of buying a PC which
    > uses these chips. As soon as I turn off the comp, no info remains at
    > all.
    >
    > This is another reason I was discussing about RAM chips in another
    > thread a few of minutes ago.
    >
    > Please note that I do not plan to write anything illegal on the net --
    > no threats, no confessions, etc. However, I would like to express my
    > opinions in chat rooms w/out facing negative consequences.
    >
    > My opinions differ from that of the general public and I want to
    > forcefully-express my vulgar, obscene, and socially-unacceptable
    > opinions in chat rooms [such as Yahoo-chat, ICQ, IRC, chat-zone, and
    > spin-chat] without being falsely-accused of crime.
    >
    > While what I would like to write in chat-rooms is not illegal, public
    > pressure would force authorities to do something. Public pressure
    > might also force the enactment of new unjust laws possibly rendering
    > my speeches illegal in the future.
    >
    > Sometimes authorities are forced to arrest and imprison innocent law-
    > abiding citizens because of public outrage. At heart, the authorites
    > don't want to jail innocent people but they have no choice. Society,
    > being the evil scum it is, will overpower the police and force them to
    > illegaly imprison me. Crowds of sadistic human beings will overturn
    > police cars and start harming the police, if the police don't
    > illegaly-
    > arrest me. Sort of like a lynch-mob mentality against the police and
    > me.
    >
    > I need protection from this unlawful, public-forced treatment.
    >
    > Sometimes society and the law are on opposite ends. This is one of
    > them.
    >
    > That is why I would like to get a PC that doesn't have any RAM that is
    > "purely-volatile" by my above definition.
    >
    > Because I am a complete law-abiding citizen, I have nothing to hide
    > from the police. However, I have everything to hide from the public
    > and society.
    >
    > In lynch-mob situations, police are powerless to do what they know is
    > right. The cops are helpless must be a slave to the evil society.
    >
    > I respect the law, but I hate society.
    >
    > For the HDD platters, even after you thoroughly delete, overwrite and
    > format a gazillion times, you're still on thin ice. The NSA and
    > Central Security Service have equipment they can use to recover data
    > from the magnetic platters on the HDD. The equipment they use is
    > *extremely* sensitive to *extremely* weak magnetic signals on the
    > magnetic platters. The only way to truly get rid off the data is to
    > heat the platters beyond Curie point. The cache chips in the HD might
    > also need to be burnt.
    >
    > I am worried similar sensitive devices could be used to read the
    > extremely-weak electric signals present in the volatile RAM chips and
    > disc cache chips.
    >
    > Due to the laws of physics, I suspect that the volatile RAM info might
    > -- to some extent -- exist even after the system is turned off. Sure
    > the wattage of those electric signals maybe *extremely*-low after shut
    > down, but that does not mean the signals are not there anymore -- they
    > are just way too weak to be detected and analyzed by ordinary means.
    > At the quantum level, the differences in wattage levels which
    > constitute what was the original volatile RAM info will continue to be
    > there in the chip.
    >
    > I'm hoping this is just my paranoia and not true.
    >
    > Also, the disc cache chips are another grave concern to me, they also
    > store RAM -- just not nearly as much as the platters of the HDD.
    >
    > I wonder if there are any PCs for sale anywhere that are free of any
    > NVRAM devices and still work. The disdvantage of this is that nothing
    > can be saved. The advantage is, malware can't be planted in it. Such a
    > PC could connect to the internet and store text on websites -- for
    > example, I could 'save' something by emailing it to myself and then
    > accessing it later.
    >
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Radium


    At the quantum level?
    What's the common med for paranoia these days?


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    RobV, Dec 22, 2008
    #2
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  3. GreenXenon

    nemo_outis Guest

    GreenXenon <> wrote in news:57c8e5e0-585e-40ae-809a-
    :

    > Can informating stored in volatile RAM still be recovered after the
    > computer is turned off?



    You are presumably reacting 10 months late to the paper:

    Lest We Remember: Cold Boot Attacks on Encryption Keys
    http://citp.princeton.edu/pub/coldboot.pdf

    I and many others consider this paper to be sensationalist and even
    somewhat dishonest, and are especially dismayed that it was thrust out in
    a shameless self-promoting way without peer review. The kindest thing
    that can be said for it is that, while it introduced nothing new, it
    reminded people of a long-known effect, RAM remanence.

    It has been known at least snce the 1970s that RAM preserves state for
    some time after removal of power (RAM is, after all, essentially just
    capacitors) and the the length of time before full discharge is extended
    by cooling.

    With that out of the way, it can be said that, for most modern RAM
    memory, waiting about a minute after power off is more than sufficient to
    ensure that RAM is not recoverable. (If you think you may be subject to a
    no-knock raid, harden your machine with automatic shutoff and obstacles
    to memory access that will take at least a minute.)

    For extreme paranoids the following "double shutdown" drill removes all
    doubt: Shut off the computer normally, reboot it from a CD and run a
    memory zeroisation program, and then shut down for the second final time.
    (If your BIOS supports a "long memory check on POST" option, then the
    shutdown-reboot-shutdown-again drill does not require a CD, zeroisation
    software, etc. Just shutdown-reboot with long memory test-shutdown).

    For learning about additional subtleties, google is your friend.

    Regards,
    nemo_outis, Dec 22, 2008
    #3
  4. GreenXenon

    ShadowTek Guest

    On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:02:50 +0000, Tim Jackson wrote:

    > I don't want to encourage you to express anything vulgar and obscene in
    > public: most of us find it perfectly possible to express our opinions
    > without,


    Not everything considered "vulgar" or "obscene" by authorities is also
    considered as such by rest of the population.

    In some places, the words "Tienanmen Square Massacre" is not just
    considered vulgar and obscene by authorities, but it is a punishable
    crime.
    ShadowTek, Dec 22, 2008
    #4
  5. GreenXenon

    Ari Guest

    Re: Forensics: Can volatile RAM still contain evidence?

    On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:11:57 +0000, Guy Macon wrote:

    > Second question: why bother trying to extract anything
    > from RAM when it's so easy to beat the passwords out of
    > you? (and don't assume that governments can't come up
    > with a threat that will accomplish the same thing)


    Personal fav: "Talk or we kill you."
    --
    Meet Ari!
    http://tr.im/1fa3
    Ari, Dec 22, 2008
    #5
  6. GreenXenon

    GreenXenon Guest

    On Dec 22, 3:02 am, Tim Jackson <> wrote:

    > If those you have
    > insulted collect their pitchforks and torches and come around as a lynch
    > mob, then more power to them.


    The stuff I would like to write in chat rooms are not insulting,
    hurtful, or offensive -- just extremely unacceptable by societal
    norms.

    As individuals, no one reading the stuff I right will have any at-
    heart desire to harm me. However, if they see me, then they will be
    forced by society's "herd mentality" to torture me to death.

    One of the evil rules of society is, if you don't mistreat a social
    outcast, then you become a social outcast. So that is what would force
    people to lynch me -- even though they don't want to.

    At heart, the individuals reading my chats will have nothing against
    me. But because what I write is so socially-unacceptable, they will
    feel the need to abuse me, in order to preserve their social status.
    GreenXenon, Dec 22, 2008
    #6
  7. GreenXenon

    Baron Guest

    GreenXenon wrote:

    > Hi:
    >
    > Can informating stored in volatile RAM still be recovered after the
    > computer is turned off? I remember reading something on a forensics
    > website that the evidence is not only on the platters of the HDD but
    > also on the disk cache chips and the volatile RAM chips in the PC.
    >
    > Even if the PC is turned-off, the chips still contain sufficient
    > amount of info that can be recoverd by top-secret devils of the NSA
    > and Central Security Service. Apparenty they have some devices that
    > can read EXTREMELY-WEAK electric signals from volatile RAM chips and
    > recover what was lost then the power was turned-off. Is this true? If
    > so, how to prevent this while still expressing my socially-
    > unacceptable opinions on the internet?
    >
    > Are there any RAM chips that are PURELY-VOLATILE and that will lose
    > all info when power is lost? If so, I'm thinking of buying a PC which
    > uses these chips. As soon as I turn off the comp, no info remains at
    > all.
    >
    > This is another reason I was discussing about RAM chips in another
    > thread a few of minutes ago.
    >
    > Please note that I do not plan to write anything illegal on the net --
    > no threats, no confessions, etc. However, I would like to express my
    > opinions in chat rooms w/out facing negative consequences.
    >
    > My opinions differ from that of the general public and I want to
    > forcefully-express my vulgar, obscene, and socially-unacceptable
    > opinions in chat rooms [such as Yahoo-chat, ICQ, IRC, chat-zone, and
    > spin-chat] without being falsely-accused of crime.
    >
    > While what I would like to write in chat-rooms is not illegal, public
    > pressure would force authorities to do something. Public pressure
    > might also force the enactment of new unjust laws possibly rendering
    > my speeches illegal in the future.
    >
    > Sometimes authorities are forced to arrest and imprison innocent law-
    > abiding citizens because of public outrage. At heart, the authorites
    > don't want to jail innocent people but they have no choice. Society,
    > being the evil scum it is, will overpower the police and force them to
    > illegaly imprison me. Crowds of sadistic human beings will overturn
    > police cars and start harming the police, if the police don't
    > illegaly-
    > arrest me. Sort of like a lynch-mob mentality against the police and
    > me.
    >
    > I need protection from this unlawful, public-forced treatment.
    >
    > Sometimes society and the law are on opposite ends. This is one of
    > them.
    >
    > That is why I would like to get a PC that doesn't have any RAM that is
    > "purely-volatile" by my above definition.
    >
    > Because I am a complete law-abiding citizen, I have nothing to hide
    > from the police. However, I have everything to hide from the public
    > and society.
    >
    > In lynch-mob situations, police are powerless to do what they know is
    > right. The cops are helpless must be a slave to the evil society.
    >
    > I respect the law, but I hate society.
    >
    > For the HDD platters, even after you thoroughly delete, overwrite and
    > format a gazillion times, you're still on thin ice. The NSA and
    > Central Security Service have equipment they can use to recover data
    > from the magnetic platters on the HDD. The equipment they use is
    > *extremely* sensitive to *extremely* weak magnetic signals on the
    > magnetic platters. The only way to truly get rid off the data is to
    > heat the platters beyond Curie point. The cache chips in the HD might
    > also need to be burnt.
    >
    > I am worried similar sensitive devices could be used to read the
    > extremely-weak electric signals present in the volatile RAM chips and
    > disc cache chips.
    >
    > Due to the laws of physics, I suspect that the volatile RAM info might
    > -- to some extent -- exist even after the system is turned off. Sure
    > the wattage of those electric signals maybe *extremely*-low after shut
    > down, but that does not mean the signals are not there anymore -- they
    > are just way too weak to be detected and analyzed by ordinary means.
    > At the quantum level, the differences in wattage levels which
    > constitute what was the original volatile RAM info will continue to be
    > there in the chip.
    >
    > I'm hoping this is just my paranoia and not true.
    >
    > Also, the disc cache chips are another grave concern to me, they also
    > store RAM -- just not nearly as much as the platters of the HDD.
    >
    > I wonder if there are any PCs for sale anywhere that are free of any
    > NVRAM devices and still work. The disdvantage of this is that nothing
    > can be saved. The advantage is, malware can't be planted in it. Such a
    > PC could connect to the internet and store text on websites -- for
    > example, I could 'save' something by emailing it to myself and then
    > accessing it later.
    >
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Radium


    I think that you are being too paranoid ! You probably have more to
    fear from your ISP's records of your traffic over however long they are
    obliged to keep them ! Most countries now legally oblige the ISP to
    record and retain them for some minimum period.

    --
    Best Regards:
    Baron.
    Baron, Dec 22, 2008
    #7
  8. GreenXenon

    Unruh Guest

    GreenXenon <> writes:

    >On Dec 22, 3:02 am, Tim Jackson <> wrote:


    >> If those you have
    >> insulted collect their pitchforks and torches and come around as a lynch
    >> mob, then more power to them.


    >The stuff I would like to write in chat rooms are not insulting,
    >hurtful, or offensive -- just extremely unacceptable by societal
    >norms.


    ???? You write in chat rooms where the stuff is saved forever, and are
    worried that someone may be able to read the stuff from you ram. Can you
    perhaps seen something totally bizzare in this? You think maybe that chat
    rooms are like chatting with a friend on Hampstead Heath? It is not. Every
    bite is recorded and saved forever. You will never ever be able to disown
    it as yours.



    >As individuals, no one reading the stuff I right will have any at-
    >heart desire to harm me. However, if they see me, then they will be
    >forced by society's "herd mentality" to torture me to death.


    >One of the evil rules of society is, if you don't mistreat a social
    >outcast, then you become a social outcast. So that is what would force
    >people to lynch me -- even though they don't want to.


    >At heart, the individuals reading my chats will have nothing against
    >me. But because what I write is so socially-unacceptable, they will
    >feel the need to abuse me, in order to preserve their social status.


    You are like the Bellman (Hunting of the snark) that if you repeat it three
    times it is true?
    Unruh, Dec 22, 2008
    #8
  9. GreenXenon

    GreenXenon Guest

    On Dec 22, 1:21 pm, Unruh <> wrote:

    > ???? You write in chat rooms where the stuff is saved forever
    > You think maybe that chat
    > rooms are like chatting with a friend on Hampstead Heath? It is not. Every
    > bite is recorded and saved forever. You will never ever be able to disown
    > it as yours.


    The stuff I write maybe saved forever but...

    1. None of what I would like to write is illegal

    2. I can post from a wireless internet cafe and add an extra defense
    of Mac-Spoofing and IP-spoofing. Right?

    Each time I log on to the internet, use a different MAC address and
    different IP address. MAC addresses can be cloned and emulated in
    software as opposed to using the real hardware MAC address branded
    into the network card.

    If my laptop is NVRAM-free, cache-free and the above apply, then it
    will be very difficult to identify/locate me. Right?

    Also, a tempest-shield would add benefit in that those NSA/Central-
    Security-Service creeps who drive around in vans scanning for leaked
    radio-frequency info will have a significantly harder time oppressing
    me.

    Since my hypothetical laptop is cache-free and NVRAM-free, I would be
    much safer from malware that would otherwise infect my laptop if it
    had cache and/or NVRAM.

    It would also be nice to have V-RAM chips which one can instantly
    erase info without power-offing. Something with signal-multiplier and
    phase-inversions. To eliminate the signal, make a copy of it, invert
    the phase and then combine the copy with the original. Or, instead of
    multipliers /inverters, something that can instantly attenuate the
    voltage of the signal down to a perfect zero -- i.e. not a single hint
    of electric potential difference -- not even at the quantum level.
    GreenXenon, Dec 22, 2008
    #9
  10. GreenXenon

    CBFalconer Guest

    GreenXenon wrote:
    >
    > Can informating stored in volatile RAM still be recovered after the
    > computer is turned off? I remember reading something on a forensics
    > website that the evidence is not only on the platters of the HDD but
    > also on the disk cache chips and the volatile RAM chips in the PC.


    Probably not, but I won't say never. About 1975 or so I remember
    buying some of the first 16k RAM chips, I believe from Electronic
    Associates. They worked, were reasonably priced, but used 24 pin
    DIP sockets as I remember. I found, by accident, that they would
    retain their contents for something like 24 hours with all power
    removed (to ensure that I removed the card from the system).

    I even advised EA of this, but they just disappeared. At the time
    development of an electrically rewriteable ROM would have been
    valuable - the only thing available was UV erasable EPROMS. I
    never took advantage of their characteristic, as I had no idea how
    reliable it was, and my end use was medical instrumentation.

    --
    [mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    [page]: <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>
    Try the download section.
    CBFalconer, Dec 22, 2008
    #10
  11. GreenXenon

    GreenXenon Guest

    On Dec 22, 2:47 pm, kony <> wrote:


    > On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 14:12:52 -0800 (PST), GreenXenon



    >
    > <> wrote:



    > >On Dec 22, 1:21 pm, Unruh <> wrote:



    >



    > >> ???? You write in chat rooms where the stuff is saved forever
    > >> You think maybe that chat
    > >> rooms are like chatting with a friend on Hampstead Heath? It is not. Every
    > >> bite is recorded and saved forever. You will never ever be able to disown
    > >> it as yours.



    >
    > >The stuff I write maybe saved forever but...

    >
    > >1. None of what I would like to write is illegal

    >



    > Then you are being paranoid beyond reason. Without it being
    > illegal, it's irrelevant that there is no reasonable way to
    > recover contents of discharged volatile memory.



    Evil corrupt NSA/Central-Security-Service scumbags like to assist
    society in abusing social outcasts.


    >
    >
    >
    > >2. I can post from a wireless internet cafe and add an extra defense
    > >of Mac-Spoofing and IP-spoofing. Right?

    >



    > Extra defense against what?



    Evil society figuring out my location/identity, dragging me into the
    middle of the street and burning me alive. Defense against that.


    >
    > >Each time I log on to the internet, use a different MAC address and
    > >different IP address. MAC addresses can be cloned and emulated in
    > >software as opposed to using the real hardware MAC address branded
    > >into the network card.

    >



    > If you are doing nothing illegal, who would have access to
    > match up the real mac address to your system?



    Corrupt NSA/CSS pieces of crap who gain pleasure from abusing American
    citizens.


    >
    >
    >
    > >If my laptop is NVRAM-free, cache-free and the above apply, then it
    > >will be very difficult to identify/locate me. Right?



    > Not really, you'll be traced through the internet cafe, so
    > you'll be the really paranoid looking fellow near their
    > access point.



    What if I access their wireless internet connection through my car and
    my windows are adequately tinted?


    >
    >
    >
    > >Also, a tempest-shield would add benefit in that those NSA/Central-
    > >Security-Service creeps who drive around in vans scanning for leaked
    > >radio-frequency info will have a significantly harder time oppressing
    > >me.

    >



    > Excellent idea, by doing this you wouldn't be able to
    > transmit anything and so you have no need to spoof
    > addresses, no access to these forums so you can't post
    > mysterious non-illegal content which nobody will care about.



    Data can still be transmitted/received but if the RAM chips are
    shielded them their electric-signals won't generate radio-signals that
    can be picked up by distant objects -- such as a van.


    >
    >
    >
    > >Since my hypothetical laptop is cache-free and NVRAM-free, I would be
    > >much safer from malware that would otherwise infect my laptop if it
    > >had cache and/or NVRAM.

    >



    > Untrue, malware does not depend on caches or nvram. It
    > generally resides in volatile memory and if it can, writes
    > itself to the operating system partition. You could have a
    > read-only OS partition, in theory at least though certainly
    > in practice a lot of typical functionality will be lost.



    What functionality would be lost if my OS partitions are read-only?


    >
    > >It would also be nice to have V-RAM chips which one can instantly
    > >erase info without power-offing. Something with signal-multiplier and
    > >phase-inversions. To eliminate the signal, make a copy of it, invert
    > >the phase and then combine the copy with the original. Or, instead of
    > >multipliers /inverters, something that can instantly attenuate the
    > >voltage of the signal down to a perfect zero -- i.e. not a single hint
    > >of electric potential difference -- not even at the quantum level.



    > I'd have to wonder though, what's the point of keeping the
    > power to the system if you've erased the memory so it can't
    > run anything?



    Good point, the goal is to eliminate some V-RAM info but not all of
    it. Of course, this isn't all that important, I discussed it simply of
    curiosity.
    GreenXenon, Dec 23, 2008
    #11
  12. GreenXenon

    Unruh Guest

    GreenXenon <> writes:

    >On Dec 22, 1:21 pm, Unruh <> wrote:


    >> ???? You write in chat rooms where the stuff is saved forever
    >> You think maybe that chat
    >> rooms are like chatting with a friend on Hampstead Heath? It is not. Every
    >> bite is recorded and saved forever. You will never ever be able to disown
    >> it as yours.


    >The stuff I write maybe saved forever but...


    >1. None of what I would like to write is illegal


    >2. I can post from a wireless internet cafe and add an extra defense
    >of Mac-Spoofing and IP-spoofing. Right?


    Sure, but if you think that hides you you are badly informed.


    >Each time I log on to the internet, use a different MAC address and
    >different IP address. MAC addresses can be cloned and emulated in
    >software as opposed to using the real hardware MAC address branded
    >into the network card.


    >If my laptop is NVRAM-free, cache-free and the above apply, then it
    >will be very difficult to identify/locate me. Right?


    No.


    >Also, a tempest-shield would add benefit in that those NSA/Central-
    >Security-Service creeps who drive around in vans scanning for leaked
    >radio-frequency info will have a significantly harder time oppressing
    >me.


    >Since my hypothetical laptop is cache-free and NVRAM-free, I would be
    >much safer from malware that would otherwise infect my laptop if it
    >had cache and/or NVRAM.


    >It would also be nice to have V-RAM chips which one can instantly
    >erase info without power-offing. Something with signal-multiplier and
    >phase-inversions. To eliminate the signal, make a copy of it, invert
    >the phase and then combine the copy with the original. Or, instead of
    >multipliers /inverters, something that can instantly attenuate the
    >voltage of the signal down to a perfect zero -- i.e. not a single hint
    >of electric potential difference -- not even at the quantum level.
    Unruh, Dec 23, 2008
    #12
  13. GreenXenon

    CBFalconer Guest

    Ian D wrote:
    > "CBFalconer" <> wrote in message
    >> GreenXenon wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Can informating stored in volatile RAM still be recovered after
    >>> the computer is turned off? I remember reading something on a
    >>> forensics website that the evidence is not only on the platters
    >>> of the HDD but also on the disk cache chips and the volatile
    >>> RAM chips in the PC.

    >>
    >> Probably not, but I won't say never. About 1975 or so I remember
    >> buying some of the first 16k RAM chips, I believe from Electronic
    >> Associates. They worked, were reasonably priced, but used 24 pin
    >> DIP sockets as I remember. I found, by accident, that they would
    >> retain their contents for something like 24 hours with all power
    >> removed (to ensure that I removed the card from the system).
    >>
    >> I even advised EA of this, but they just disappeared. At the time
    >> development of an electrically rewriteable ROM would have been
    >> valuable - the only thing available was UV erasable EPROMS. I
    >> never took advantage of their characteristic, as I had no idea how
    >> reliable it was, and my end use was medical instrumentation.

    >
    > Those would be static RAM chips. The data bits were stored in
    > flip-flops, which means two MOS transistors per bit. Each bit
    > retained its state until changed, or power was removed. As you
    > found out, the MOS transistors could retain their charges for
    > a time after power was removed. Static RAM was expensive,
    > but very fast and required minimal support cicuitry. I still have
    > a bunch of TI TMS4044 18 pin 4k static RAM chips.


    They definitely were static. However, 24 hours seemed excessive.
    I tested them for complete memory over the period.

    --
    [mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
    [page]: <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>
    Try the download section.
    CBFalconer, Dec 23, 2008
    #13
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