Can Microsoft be trusted?

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by Imhotep, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    "Well, they've done it again. In prime-time. With malice aforethought. The
    duplicitous droogs, the denizens of deep-doodoo, I'm talking about Bill
    Gates' Microsoft: caught in a bald-faced lie about HD DVD-ROM discs. This
    is news? Not any more than the fact it's hot in Texas this summer or that
    Katrina caused a lot of damage. It is, after all, the Microsoft way:
    dishonesty in all things."

    http://trends.newsforge.com/trends/05/10/01/1548246.shtml?tid=29

    Imhotep
     
    Imhotep, Oct 2, 2005
    #1
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  2. Imhotep

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:34:52 -0400, Imhotep <>
    wrote:

    >"Well, they've done it again. In prime-time. With malice aforethought. The
    >duplicitous droogs, the denizens of deep-doodoo, I'm talking about Bill
    >Gates' Microsoft: caught in a bald-faced lie about HD DVD-ROM discs. This
    >is news? Not any more than the fact it's hot in Texas this summer or that
    >Katrina caused a lot of damage. It is, after all, the Microsoft way:
    >dishonesty in all things."
    >
    >http://trends.newsforge.com/trends/05/10/01/1548246.shtml?tid=29


    Jeez it that the best that the anti-ms lobby can come uo with?

    Talking about how good OS/2 was <groan> the followup comments
    are well worth reading and put the 'story' into perspective.

    Just at present I can't imagine what use a 50gb pressed disk would
    be, even if it existed.
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
     
    Jim Watt, Oct 2, 2005
    #2
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  3. Imhotep

    Steve Welsh Guest

    Jim Watt wrote:
    > Just at present I can't imagine what use a 50gb pressed disk would
    > be, even if it existed.


    Coaster, of course :)
     
    Steve Welsh, Oct 2, 2005
    #3
  4. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    Jim Watt wrote:

    > On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:34:52 -0400, Imhotep <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>"Well, they've done it again. In prime-time. With malice aforethought. The
    >>duplicitous droogs, the denizens of deep-doodoo, I'm talking about Bill
    >>Gates' Microsoft: caught in a bald-faced lie about HD DVD-ROM discs. This
    >>is news? Not any more than the fact it's hot in Texas this summer or that
    >>Katrina caused a lot of damage. It is, after all, the Microsoft way:
    >>dishonesty in all things."
    >>
    >>http://trends.newsforge.com/trends/05/10/01/1548246.shtml?tid=29

    >
    > Jeez it that the best that the anti-ms lobby can come uo with?


    Ah no, there is a lot of data that can used here. Really, this article was
    about M$ lying about the standard *they* want pushed. I imagine that the
    Entertainment Industry wants MS to back HD DVD...

    > Talking about how good OS/2 was <groan> the followup comments
    > are well worth reading and put the 'story' into perspective.


    Jim, the story was not about OS/2 at all. It was about how M$ lied about the
    reason why Win95 was slower than OS/2 on a Pentium pro when MS knew all
    along. Really, when you look at it you see the overall strategy MS uses.
    Add a couple of facts in a soup of lies and hope no one researches the
    recipe...

    > Just at present I can't imagine what use a 50gb pressed disk would
    > be, even if it existed.
    > --
    > Jim Watt
    > http://www.gibnet.com


    Imhotep
     
    Imhotep, Oct 3, 2005
    #4
  5. Imhotep

    Dazz Guest

    On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 00:36:47 +0200, Jim Watt <_way>
    wrote:

    >On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:34:52 -0400, Imhotep <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>"Well, they've done it again. In prime-time. With malice aforethought. The
    >>duplicitous droogs, the denizens of deep-doodoo, I'm talking about Bill
    >>Gates' Microsoft: caught in a bald-faced lie about HD DVD-ROM discs. This
    >>is news? Not any more than the fact it's hot in Texas this summer or that
    >>Katrina caused a lot of damage. It is, after all, the Microsoft way:
    >>dishonesty in all things."
    >>
    >>http://trends.newsforge.com/trends/05/10/01/1548246.shtml?tid=29

    >
    >Jeez it that the best that the anti-ms lobby can come uo with?
    >
    >Talking about how good OS/2 was <groan> the followup comments
    >are well worth reading and put the 'story' into perspective.


    Regardless of the "anti-ms" lobby:

    OS/2 was in many ways, well ahead of it's time.

    In fact, it was so good, that many companies (including large banks,
    hospitals etc) were still using OS/2 past 2000.

    The last time I personally used OS/2 was back in late 2001, and like
    it or not, it was relatively rock solid.

    That was a good 5 years after I first used OS/2.

    Unfortunately, just like the entire DOS farce (which effectively gave
    start to M$), IBM failed to capitialise and push for more companies to
    use OS/2 and it eventually began to die.

    >Just at present I can't imagine what use a 50gb pressed disk would
    >be, even if it existed.


    I could find lots of uses. :)

    Dazz
     
    Dazz, Oct 3, 2005
    #5
  6. Imhotep

    Dazz Guest

    On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:15:30 +1000, Dazz <> wrote:

    <snipped>

    >>>http://trends.newsforge.com/trends/05/10/01/1548246.shtml?tid=29

    >>
    >>Jeez it that the best that the anti-ms lobby can come uo with?


    Oh yeah, and the original context of the link was to highlight the way
    that M$ will twist the facts in any way they can for their own
    reasons.

    M$ thrive on their FUD campaigns, regardless of the truth or the cost
    of "buying" favourable comments.

    Mind you, they are not alone in that.

    Dazz

    >Dazz
     
    Dazz, Oct 3, 2005
    #6
  7. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    Imhotep wrote:

    > "Well, they've done it again. In prime-time. With malice aforethought. The
    > duplicitous droogs, the denizens of deep-doodoo, I'm talking about Bill
    > Gates' Microsoft: caught in a bald-faced lie about HD DVD-ROM discs. This
    > is news? Not any more than the fact it's hot in Texas this summer or that
    > Katrina caused a lot of damage. It is, after all, the Microsoft way:
    > dishonesty in all things."
    >
    > http://trends.newsforge.com/trends/05/10/01/1548246.shtml?tid=29
    >
    > Imhotep


    Ah, I think I found the cause for the M$ FUD...

    With the Blue-Ray DVD technology any company can license it. Maybe that is
    the cause for the WinMissInformation? Maybe the Entertainment industry does
    no want that....

    Imhotep
     
    Imhotep, Oct 3, 2005
    #7
  8. Imhotep

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:15:30 +1000, Dazz <> wrote:

    >OS/2 was in many ways, well ahead of it's time.
    >
    >In fact, it was so good, that many companies (including large banks,
    >hospitals etc) were still using OS/2 past 2000.


    I got a beta of it and didn't like it, one client (a bank) who did
    commit extensively to it said it was a terrible mistake.

    By the time Win/98 came along even IBM used that.

    However, going back to the story, the follow-up messages
    are interesting and suggest that MS may have made a decision
    over a real product that can be produced over a theoretical one.

    We all remember how Betamax was supposed to be a better
    format - I +nearly+ bought one.

    But turning to 50gb on a non-recordable disk, what exactly is
    the attraction ?

    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
     
    Jim Watt, Oct 3, 2005
    #8
  9. Imhotep

    Dazz Guest

    Jim Watt wrote:

    <snipped>

    > I got a beta of it and didn't like it, one client (a bank) who did
    > commit extensively to it said it was a terrible mistake.


    That's interesting. I know that quite a few of Australia's largest banks
    were using OS/2. I also know of other "big" companies that were also using
    OS/2 up until a few years ago.

    > By the time Win/98 came along even IBM used that.


    People were using Win98 for servers? ;-P

    > However, going back to the story, the follow-up messages
    > are interesting and suggest that MS may have made a decision
    > over a real product that can be produced over a theoretical one.
    >
    > We all remember how Betamax was supposed to be a better
    > format - I +nearly+ bought one.


    lol - but Betamax *was* better quality than VHS. :)

    > But turning to 50gb on a non-recordable disk, what exactly is
    > the attraction ?


    Build it, and they will come.

    I bet people were saying that about CD's and DVD's. Personally, I still
    think that the bigger the hard drive you put into a computer, the more data
    you get to lose. :)

    Seriously though, M$ should not be dictating what is happening in regards to
    these sort of things, and instead, should be concentrating on putting out a
    stable OS (or software for that matter) that isn't plagued with security
    holes.

    Certainly, they can inform us of whatever they want to include in their
    product, but I'd much rather see them concentrating on getting their
    existing products right.

    Dazz

    > --
    > Jim Watt
    > http://www.gibnet.com
     
    Dazz, Oct 3, 2005
    #9
  10. Imhotep

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 23:46:48 +1000, Dazz <> wrote:

    <more snips>

    >People were using Win98 for servers? ;-P


    nope, OS/400

    >lol - but Betamax *was* better quality than VHS. :)


    so they say, but the other system won the standard wars and
    there is probably only room for one HD optical disk standard

    >
    >> But turning to 50gb on a non-recordable disk, what exactly is
    >> the attraction ?

    >
    >Build it, and they will come.


    Yeah I'd love one for backup purposes, but read only ???

    WTF is that big.

    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
     
    Jim Watt, Oct 3, 2005
    #10
  11. "Dazz" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:15:30 +1000, Dazz <> wrote:


    > M$ thrive on their FUD campaigns, regardless of the truth or the cost
    > of "buying" favourable comments.
    >
    > Mind you, they are not alone in that.


    Oh, too true ;o)

    (Jibe not aimed at yourself, BTW. Let's see if guilt prompts a response)

    Going vaguely on-topic, OS/2 is still in use in some banks - look for
    dedicated teller hardware (on the desk, rather than behind it. Pun quite
    possibly intended)

    --

    Hairy One Kenobi

    Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
    reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
    in the first place. So there!
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Oct 3, 2005
    #11
  12. Imhotep

    Steve Welsh Guest

    Dazz wrote:
    > Jim Watt wrote:
    >
    >
    > lol - but Betamax *was* better quality than VHS. :)
    >


    and Philips/Grundig V2000 kicked both their arses big time, but alas too
    late in the game :`)

    Am I showing my age? Sorry, I'll put me slippers on and shuffle off :)

    Steve
     
    Steve Welsh, Oct 3, 2005
    #12
  13. "Steve Welsh" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > Dazz wrote:
    > > Jim Watt wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > lol - but Betamax *was* better quality than VHS. :)
    > >

    >
    > and Philips/Grundig V2000 kicked both their arses big time, but alas too
    > late in the game :`)


    Hum. Apart from being able to be turned over to double the duration, Beta
    was - from an image quality standpoint - /much/ better.

    > Am I showing my age? Sorry, I'll put me slippers on and shuffle off :)


    Well, I bought Oric over Spectrum. Made the technical choice the first time,
    bought VHS (and content!) the second.

    Match your age bid and call! :eek:D

    --

    Hairy One Kenobi

    Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
    reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
    in the first place. So there!
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Oct 3, 2005
    #13
  14. Imhotep

    Dazz Guest

    On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 19:50:53 +0200, Jim Watt <_way>
    wrote:

    >On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 23:46:48 +1000, Dazz <> wrote:
    >
    ><more snips>
    >
    >>People were using Win98 for servers? ;-P

    >
    >nope, OS/400
    >
    >>lol - but Betamax *was* better quality than VHS. :)

    >
    >so they say, but the other system won the standard wars and
    >there is probably only room for one HD optical disk standard


    Well, people were saying that just a few years ago about DVD +/-, and
    these days, most DVD Burners now come with both, despite the
    manufacturers at one stage saying that their format was the best.

    It's really up to the consumer to decide.

    Of course, the consumer doesn't always pick the best option. ;-P

    >>> But turning to 50gb on a non-recordable disk, what exactly is
    >>> the attraction ?

    >>
    >>Build it, and they will come.

    >
    >Yeah I'd love one for backup purposes, but read only ???


    I'm not too familar with the particulars, and while it may be read
    only now, who knows what the future will hold. My guess is that long
    term, the format won't be read-only. And then we'll be thinking how
    we got buy with 4.7 Gb DVD's.

    Regardless though, it shouldn't be up to a software company to dictate
    to the consumer what they should or shouldn't have. A software
    company should be listening to it's consumers and what they want, and
    while they may favour one over the other, let the consumer decide.
    It's their computer, it's their hardware, so why should one company
    say "Well, we're not going to incorprorate it into our software
    because we don't like it"?

    Ultimately, it is there decision, but this is where the beauty of
    Linux and Open Source shines through. Freedom from being tied down to
    what one company dictates is best for me.

    >WTF is that big.


    You would be surprised. For instance, a few years back I contracted
    for a Gov entity that needed to keep records of their nurses on file.
    This meant, that they needed to scan all the documentation of each
    nurse and keep that on record.

    When we're talking about tens of thousands of nurses and tens if not
    hundreds of documents for each nurse that needed to be scanned in high
    res, you'd see the practicality of having a 50Gb Optical Disc -
    regardless of whether it was read-only.

    Dazz
     
    Dazz, Oct 4, 2005
    #14
  15. Imhotep

    Winged Guest

    Dazz wrote:
    > On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 00:36:47 +0200, Jim Watt <_way>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:34:52 -0400, Imhotep <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>"Well, they've done it again. In prime-time. With malice aforethought. The
    >>>duplicitous droogs, the denizens of deep-doodoo, I'm talking about Bill
    >>>Gates' Microsoft: caught in a bald-faced lie about HD DVD-ROM discs. This
    >>>is news? Not any more than the fact it's hot in Texas this summer or that
    >>>Katrina caused a lot of damage. It is, after all, the Microsoft way:
    >>>dishonesty in all things."
    >>>
    >>>http://trends.newsforge.com/trends/05/10/01/1548246.shtml?tid=29

    >>
    >>Jeez it that the best that the anti-ms lobby can come uo with?
    >>
    >>Talking about how good OS/2 was <groan> the followup comments
    >>are well worth reading and put the 'story' into perspective.

    >
    >
    > Regardless of the "anti-ms" lobby:
    >
    > OS/2 was in many ways, well ahead of it's time.
    >
    > In fact, it was so good, that many companies (including large banks,
    > hospitals etc) were still using OS/2 past 2000.
    >
    > The last time I personally used OS/2 was back in late 2001, and like
    > it or not, it was relatively rock solid.
    >
    > That was a good 5 years after I first used OS/2.
    >
    > Unfortunately, just like the entire DOS farce (which effectively gave
    > start to M$), IBM failed to capitialise and push for more companies to
    > use OS/2 and it eventually began to die.
    >
    >
    >>Just at present I can't imagine what use a 50gb pressed disk would
    >>be, even if it existed.

    >
    >
    > I could find lots of uses. :)
    >
    > Dazz
    >

    OS2 was cool at the time however there were a number of issues with the
    OS. The OS was a bear to write device drivers to interface with
    multiple other unknown devices. Device conflicts were not uncommon.
    Applications had to be aware and interface with potential devices which
    made application writing also a bit of a challenge. Windows won out
    because of the API to the system devices. Development times for
    application and drivers were significantly reduced which meant product
    to market faster at lower cost to manufacture.

    I find it interesting device interfacing is one of those issues still
    with the Nixs. While there may be issues with the MS device interface,
    it is significantly easier to build device drivers for the Linux
    environs. This is one reason many devices never get a manufactures
    driver for Linux: drivers are difficult to program and costly to
    support. This has got some better in recent years with the support of
    the open source community and manufactures releasing more information
    about their devices to facilitate, but sadly very few manufacturers have
    signed on to build drivers for Linux support. This means it is
    typically 6 months from the time a device is released until a driver for
    the new device and latest features reach the Linux community.

    Winged
     
    Winged, Oct 4, 2005
    #15
  16. Imhotep

    Winged Guest

    Imhotep wrote:
    > Imhotep wrote:
    >
    >
    >>"Well, they've done it again. In prime-time. With malice aforethought. The
    >>duplicitous droogs, the denizens of deep-doodoo, I'm talking about Bill
    >>Gates' Microsoft: caught in a bald-faced lie about HD DVD-ROM discs. This
    >>is news? Not any more than the fact it's hot in Texas this summer or that
    >>Katrina caused a lot of damage. It is, after all, the Microsoft way:
    >>dishonesty in all things."
    >>
    >>http://trends.newsforge.com/trends/05/10/01/1548246.shtml?tid=29
    >>
    >>Imhotep

    >
    >
    > Ah, I think I found the cause for the M$ FUD...
    >
    > With the Blue-Ray DVD technology any company can license it. Maybe that is
    > the cause for the WinMissInformation? Maybe the Entertainment industry does
    > no want that....
    >
    > Imhotep

    I suspect we are a long way from the end of this format war. Looks like
    some of the studios have come out and said they support blue-ray. I
    think we have awhile before a single standard emerges. I believe
    market forces will decide this battle. Watch for cut rate prices early
    in this battle on these devices as vendors try to capture market share.

    Competition is good. Expect a bit of blood to fall before it is over.

    Winged
     
    Winged, Oct 4, 2005
    #16
  17. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    Dazz wrote:
    <snip>
    >
    > Regardless though, it shouldn't be up to a software company to dictate
    > to the consumer what they should or shouldn't have. A software
    > company should be listening to it's consumers and what they want, and
    > while they may favour one over the other, let the consumer decide.
    > It's their computer, it's their hardware, so why should one company
    > say "Well, we're not going to incorprorate it into our software
    > because we don't like it"?
    >
    > Ultimately, it is there decision, but this is where the beauty of
    > Linux and Open Source shines through. Freedom from being tied down to
    > what one company dictates is best for me.
    >


    Exactly. Software compies (or groups like Open Source) should not be
    choosing our hardware. Period. Especially, when there are ulterior motives
    involved...

    >>WTF is that big.

    >
    > You would be surprised. For instance, a few years back I contracted
    > for a Gov entity that needed to keep records of their nurses on file.
    > This meant, that they needed to scan all the documentation of each
    > nurse and keep that on record.
    >
    > When we're talking about tens of thousands of nurses and tens if not
    > hundreds of documents for each nurse that needed to be scanned in high
    > res, you'd see the practicality of having a 50Gb Optical Disc -
    > regardless of whether it was read-only.
    >
    > Dazz


    Im
     
    Imhotep, Oct 4, 2005
    #17
  18. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    Winged wrote:

    > Dazz wrote:
    >> On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 00:36:47 +0200, Jim Watt <_way>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>On Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:34:52 -0400, Imhotep <>
    >>>wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>"Well, they've done it again. In prime-time. With malice aforethought.
    >>>>The duplicitous droogs, the denizens of deep-doodoo, I'm talking about
    >>>>Bill Gates' Microsoft: caught in a bald-faced lie about HD DVD-ROM
    >>>>discs. This is news? Not any more than the fact it's hot in Texas this
    >>>>summer or that Katrina caused a lot of damage. It is, after all, the
    >>>>Microsoft way: dishonesty in all things."
    >>>>
    >>>>http://trends.newsforge.com/trends/05/10/01/1548246.shtml?tid=29
    >>>
    >>>Jeez it that the best that the anti-ms lobby can come uo with?
    >>>
    >>>Talking about how good OS/2 was <groan> the followup comments
    >>>are well worth reading and put the 'story' into perspective.

    >>
    >>
    >> Regardless of the "anti-ms" lobby:
    >>
    >> OS/2 was in many ways, well ahead of it's time.
    >>
    >> In fact, it was so good, that many companies (including large banks,
    >> hospitals etc) were still using OS/2 past 2000.
    >>
    >> The last time I personally used OS/2 was back in late 2001, and like
    >> it or not, it was relatively rock solid.
    >>
    >> That was a good 5 years after I first used OS/2.
    >>
    >> Unfortunately, just like the entire DOS farce (which effectively gave
    >> start to M$), IBM failed to capitialise and push for more companies to
    >> use OS/2 and it eventually began to die.
    >>
    >>
    >>>Just at present I can't imagine what use a 50gb pressed disk would
    >>>be, even if it existed.

    >>
    >>
    >> I could find lots of uses. :)
    >>
    >> Dazz
    >>

    > OS2 was cool at the time however there were a number of issues with the
    > OS. The OS was a bear to write device drivers to interface with
    > multiple other unknown devices. Device conflicts were not uncommon.
    > Applications had to be aware and interface with potential devices which
    > made application writing also a bit of a challenge. Windows won out
    > because of the API to the system devices. Development times for
    > application and drivers were significantly reduced which meant product
    > to market faster at lower cost to manufacture.
    >
    > I find it interesting device interfacing is one of those issues still
    > with the Nixs. While there may be issues with the MS device interface,
    > it is significantly easier to build device drivers for the Linux
    > environs. This is one reason many devices never get a manufactures
    > driver for Linux: drivers are difficult to program and costly to
    > support. This has got some better in recent years with the support of
    > the open source community and manufactures releasing more information
    > about their devices to facilitate, but sadly very few manufacturers have
    > signed on to build drivers for Linux support. This means it is
    > typically 6 months from the time a device is released until a driver for
    > the new device and latest features reach the Linux community.


    There have been changes recently. NVidia *does* write drivers for Linux and
    BSD: http://www.nvidia.com/object/freebsd_1.0-7676.html. Also, ATI has
    joined. I was talking with Verizon about their new broadband card for
    laptops and they are also going to support Linux....


    Im

    >
    > Winged
     
    Imhotep, Oct 4, 2005
    #18
  19. Imhotep

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:13:42 +1000, Dazz <> wrote:

    <snip>

    >When we're talking about tens of thousands of nurses and tens if not
    >hundreds of documents for each nurse that needed to be scanned in high
    >res, you'd see the practicality of having a 50Gb Optical Disc -
    >regardless of whether it was read-only.


    yeah but a stamped out disk needs a production run in the thousands.
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
     
    Jim Watt, Oct 4, 2005
    #19
  20. Imhotep

    Jim Watt Guest

    On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 21:12:53 +0100, Steve Welsh <>
    wrote:

    >and Philips/Grundig V2000 kicked both their arses big time, but alas too
    >late in the game :`)


    I beg to differ that format was a real dog. Betamax is
    very similar to a professional VTR system still in use

    I used the various Phillips attempts and they were a
    total disaster mechanically.
    --
    Jim Watt
    http://www.gibnet.com
     
    Jim Watt, Oct 4, 2005
    #20
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