Can Live View Be Used To Count Sunspots?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=, Sep 10, 2007.

  1. If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view sunspots
    without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?






    Rita
     
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=, Sep 10, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=

    StarStruck Guest

    On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:15:32 -0400, Rita Ä Berkowitz <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com>
    wrote:

    >If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view sunspots
    >without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?
    >


    You really need to study up on how an H-alpha filter is used and what it is
    actually used for before you ask such a comment.

    To view sunspots with your camera and a FL of 400mm or more, you would get the
    best results by obtaining some Baader filter material and make a filter for your
    lens out of that. It provides the highest contrast and clarity of available
    filter materials.

    On the other hand, if you're just desperately trolling for attention again (as
    most people believe that's all you ever do), I would suggest trying it without a
    filter first. Make sure you aim the camera focused at the sun for 8 minutes or
    more. The sunspots won't be visible until the camera can properly compensate for
    white-balance and exposure. It takes a long time for a digital camera to do that
    properly with full sunlight, its intensity overpowering the sensor's electronics
    until then.
     
    StarStruck, Sep 10, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=

    bugbear Guest

    Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:
    > If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view sunspots
    > without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?
    >


    It would certainly avoid damaging your retina by viewing
    the sun directly.

    BugBear
     
    bugbear, Sep 10, 2007
    #3
  4. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=

    George Kerby Guest

    On 9/10/07 6:15 AM, in article , "Rita Ä
    Berkowitz" <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com> wrote:

    > If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view sunspots
    > without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?
    >

    I would suggest first checking for the sunspots with a 30x binoculars.
    That way, you'll be sure that they are there.
     
    George Kerby, Sep 10, 2007
    #4
  5. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=

    RichA Guest

    On Sep 10, 7:15 am, Rita Ä Berkowitz <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com> wrote:
    > If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view sunspots
    > without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?
    >
    > Rita


    Concentrate the light from the unfiltered sun with a lens onto the
    sensor and KISS it goodby.
     
    RichA, Sep 10, 2007
    #5
  6. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=

    georgea Guest

    There are two flavours of Baader Astro Solar filter material, one for
    viewing and one for photographic use. The visual one can be used for
    photography although the speed is slower.
    H-Alpha for solar use is big bucks (don't confuse it with H-Alpha filters
    for night sky (similar, but darker than a wratten 92)) the filters would
    need to be custom fitted to the front and back of the lens and there
    probably isn't enough depth inside the camera to mount the second part of
    the filter assembly.
    StarStruck's viewing/photographic method is great if you want to destroy
    your camera and eyesight, even as a joke in a newsgroup it isn't a wise
    thing to post.

    George

    "StarStruck" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:15:32 -0400, Rita Ä Berkowitz <ritaberk2O04

    @aol.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view sunspots
    > >without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?
    > >

    >
    > You really need to study up on how an H-alpha filter is used and what it

    is
    > actually used for before you ask such a comment.
    >
    > To view sunspots with your camera and a FL of 400mm or more, you would

    get the
    > best results by obtaining some Baader filter material and make a filter

    for your
    > lens out of that. It provides the highest contrast and clarity of

    available
    > filter materials.
    >
    > On the other hand, if you're just desperately trolling for attention again

    (as
    > most people believe that's all you ever do), I would suggest trying it

    without a
    > filter first. Make sure you aim the camera focused at the sun for 8

    minutes or
    > more. The sunspots won't be visible until the camera can properly

    compensate for
    > white-balance and exposure. It takes a long time for a digital camera to

    do that
    > properly with full sunlight, its intensity overpowering the sensor's

    electronics
    > until then.
    >
     
    georgea, Sep 10, 2007
    #6
  7. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=

    Walter Banks Guest

    The sun by itself won't hurt the sensor but the accumulated heat will especially in a camera that doesn't have a mechanism to remove it. I have seen the considerable damage that the sun can do to small telescopes, anything plastic and lens coatings
    especially. Sun filters can do a lot to exclude infrared from a camera.

    w..


    Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:

    > If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view sunspots
    > without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?
    >
    > Rita
     
    Walter Banks, Sep 10, 2007
    #7
  8. "Rita Ä Berkowitz" <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view sunspots
    > without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Rita

    Sure, if your film was slow enough and your shutter was fast enough......I
    wouldn't compose the shot in your rangefinder if I were you, though.......
     
    William Graham, Sep 10, 2007
    #8
  9. "StarStruck" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 07:15:32 -0400, Rita Ä Berkowitz <ritaberk2O04
    > @aol.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view sunspots
    >>without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?
    >>

    >
    > You really need to study up on how an H-alpha filter is used and what it
    > is
    > actually used for before you ask such a comment.
    >
    > To view sunspots with your camera and a FL of 400mm or more, you would
    > get the
    > best results by obtaining some Baader filter material and make a filter
    > for your
    > lens out of that. It provides the highest contrast and clarity of
    > available
    > filter materials.
    >
    > On the other hand, if you're just desperately trolling for attention again
    > (as
    > most people believe that's all you ever do), I would suggest trying it
    > without a
    > filter first. Make sure you aim the camera focused at the sun for 8
    > minutes or
    > more. The sunspots won't be visible until the camera can properly
    > compensate for
    > white-balance and exposure. It takes a long time for a digital camera to
    > do that
    > properly with full sunlight, its intensity overpowering the sensor's
    > electronics
    > until then.
    >

    Actually, you can use a pinhole in a black card, and "project" the sun's
    image on a white plane, or a projector screen, and then take the shot that
    way.....You can use this technique for eclipses, too.....
     
    William Graham, Sep 10, 2007
    #9
  10. William Graham wrote:

    > Actually, you can use a pinhole in a black card, and "project" the
    > sun's image on a white plane, or a projector screen, and then take
    > the shot that way.....You can use this technique for eclipses,
    > too.....


    Yep, that's a neat way of doing it. Seems like Live View was invented
    centuries ago.






    Rita
     
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=, Sep 10, 2007
    #10
  11. StarStruck wrote:

    >> If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view
    >> sunspots without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?
    >>

    >
    > You really need to study up on how an H-alpha filter is used and what
    > it is actually used for before you ask such a comment.


    Have a corona on me.






    Rita
     
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=, Sep 10, 2007
    #11
  12. RichA wrote:

    >> If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view
    >> sunspots without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?

    >
    > Concentrate the light from the unfiltered sun with a lens onto the
    > sensor and KISS it goodby.


    I'm just trying to find a valid justification for Live View, that's all. So
    far it's not happening. I wonder if I can get Canon to remove it from my Mk
    III and get a $25 rebate?





    Rita
     
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=, Sep 10, 2007
    #12
  13. "Rita Ä Berkowitz" <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > William Graham wrote:
    >
    >> Actually, you can use a pinhole in a black card, and "project" the
    >> sun's image on a white plane, or a projector screen, and then take
    >> the shot that way.....You can use this technique for eclipses,
    >> too.....

    >
    > Yep, that's a neat way of doing it. Seems like Live View was invented
    > centuries ago.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Rita
    >
    >

    We did it once in the control room where I worked....We had a darkened room
    anyway, so we just drilled a hole in the roof and projected a huge image on
    a table top......Not too far from that same location was the Stanford solar
    observatory....They had an optical system that projected the sun onto a
    hemispherical table.....It made a fantastic image that was about three feet
    across.....You could see solar flares, and sunspots.......They had an
    optical system that would track the sun across the sky for about three hours
    every afternoon......
     
    William Graham, Sep 10, 2007
    #13
  14. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=

    frederick Guest

    Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:
    > RichA wrote:
    >
    >>> If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view
    >>> sunspots without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?

    >>
    >> Concentrate the light from the unfiltered sun with a lens onto the
    >> sensor and KISS it goodby.

    >
    > I'm just trying to find a valid justification for Live View, that's
    > all. So
    > far it's not happening. I wonder if I can get Canon to remove it from
    > my Mk
    > III and get a $25 rebate?
    >
    >

    Shooting using an ultra-wide lens where you need to get down
    low on wet ground to see through the viewfinder to compose a
    shot including foreground objects.
    Yeah - you could wear waterproof leggings, or carry a mat to
    crawl on, but if liveview was a $25 option, I'd take it any day.

    Of course with the weird oddball sensor size IdIII,
    ultra-wide isn't possible, so YMMV.
     
    frederick, Sep 11, 2007
    #14
  15. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=

    Ben Granger Guest

    On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 17:44:55 -0400, Rita Ä Berkowitz <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com>
    wrote:

    >RichA wrote:
    >
    >>> If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view
    >>> sunspots without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?

    >>
    >> Concentrate the light from the unfiltered sun with a lens onto the
    >> sensor and KISS it goodby.

    >
    >I'm just trying to find a valid justification for Live View, that's all.
    >


    Oh, you're one of those <eye-roll>. Someone who has never obtained any
    experience with all the advanced capabilities of the P&S cameras that far
    surpass anything that any DSLR can do.

    How about this then:

    When taking images of waterfalls or rapids you can dial-in the slow shutter
    speed you need to see how much you are blurring the water, seeing it happen in
    real-time in the EVF. Instead of just hoping it'll be right. You can see the
    exact effect you will get on your resulting image, instead of taking a photo,
    checking it, resetting to a slower shutter speed, taking another, checking it,
    resetting it ... ooops too late, that wading-bird in the scene that made it the
    most perfect award-winning photo was scared off by the gawdawful noises that
    your DSLR's shutter and slapping mirror were making. Or if you want to dial-in
    the exact amount of motion blur you want in a batter's swing, or a bird's
    wing-beat, or the props of a plane. You will see the effect as you compose your
    shot and be able to capture exactly what you want.

    Unlike every other DSLR on earth with only an OVF where none of this is ever
    possible, but it IS possible on nearly every P&S camera in existence with an
    LCD/EVF.

    Get your head out of your DSLR ass, it's been stuck up there so long with your
    ancient technology you can't even see the light.
     
    Ben Granger, Sep 11, 2007
    #15
  16. Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:
    > RichA wrote:
    >
    >>> If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view
    >>> sunspots without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?

    >>
    >> Concentrate the light from the unfiltered sun with a lens onto the
    >> sensor and KISS it goodby.

    >
    > I'm just trying to find a valid justification for Live View, that's
    > all. So
    > far it's not happening. I wonder if I can get Canon to remove it from
    > my Mk
    > III and get a $25 rebate?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Rita
    >


    If the live view on the MkIII is the same thing (or similar) as the 20DA
    came with then slap on a piece of Baader film in front of the 400mm lens
    and you will be able to see a fair bit of detail in the sunspots as well
    as be able to count them.
    The sun is 0.5 of a degree in diameter so from your FOV of the 400 you
    should get an idea of the pixel resolution for the solar image.

    George
     
    George Anderson, Sep 11, 2007
    #16
  17. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=

    Fred Guest

    Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:
    > If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view sunspots
    > without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?


    You're very likely to fry your eye and the camera sensor but if you're
    interested in astronomy use of liveview, there is a very nice review of
    the EOS40d at http://astrosurf.com/buil/eos40d/test.htm
    HTH
    fu2 sci.astro.amateur
    --
    Frédéric
     
    Fred, Sep 11, 2007
    #17
  18. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=

    bugbear Guest

    Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:
    > RichA wrote:
    >
    >>> If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view
    >>> sunspots without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?

    >>
    >> Concentrate the light from the unfiltered sun with a lens onto the
    >> sensor and KISS it goodby.

    >
    > I'm just trying to find a valid justification for Live View, that's
    > all. So
    > far it's not happening. I wonder if I can get Canon to remove it from
    > my Mk
    > III and get a $25 rebate?
    >


    Low light shooting, where the sensor is
    more sensitive than your eyes (at least after
    image processing :)

    BugBear
     
    bugbear, Sep 11, 2007
    #18
  19. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=

    Doug Jewell Guest

    "Ben Granger" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 17:44:55 -0400, Rita Ä Berkowitz <ritaberk2O04
    > @aol.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>RichA wrote:
    >>
    >>>> If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view
    >>>> sunspots without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?
    >>>
    >>> Concentrate the light from the unfiltered sun with a lens onto the
    >>> sensor and KISS it goodby.

    >>
    >>I'm just trying to find a valid justification for Live View, that's all.
    >>

    >
    > Oh, you're one of those <eye-roll>. Someone who has never obtained any
    > experience with all the advanced capabilities of the P&S cameras that far
    > surpass anything that any DSLR can do.
    >
    > How about this then:
    >
    > When taking images of waterfalls or rapids you can dial-in the slow
    > shutter
    > speed you need to see how much you are blurring the water, seeing it
    > happen in
    > real-time in the EVF. Instead of just hoping it'll be right.

    Really, EVF previews the long shutter speed? are you sure? So when you have
    a 1sec exposure, previewing that would require a framerate of 1 per sec -
    that'll be useful I'm sure. Which camera's EVF previews shutter speed? Most
    will preview overall exposure, but shutter blur preview, along with live DOF
    preview isn't usually a feature. Can you give a specific model that will
    preview the amount of shutter blur as you dial it in?

    >You can see the
    > exact effect you will get on your resulting image, instead of taking a
    > photo,
    > checking it, resetting to a slower shutter speed, taking another, checking
    > it,
    > resetting it ... ooops too late, that wading-bird in the scene that made
    > it the
    > most perfect award-winning photo was scared off by the gawdawful noises
    > that
    > your DSLR's shutter and slapping mirror were making.

    Oops, while you were waiting for your 1 frame/sec EVF to focus, the bird
    flew off anyway.. or this 1 frame/sec EVF you are talking about, which is
    running 1 second behind live, doesn't show you that the bird flew away
    before you press the button.
    >Or if you want to dial-in
    > the exact amount of motion blur you want in a batter's swing, or a bird's
    > wing-beat, or the props of a plane. You will see the effect as you compose
    > your
    > shot and be able to capture exactly what you want.

    Well no, you don't see the effect of the blur, but assuming you did, doing
    so would require a delay and so composing on the EVF would be a waste of
    time, because the subject would really be gone at the point you press the
    button. And just how do you autofocus quickly on a moving subject with an
    EVF camera?
    If the subject is such that you have enough time to preview the effects on
    an EVF, you also have enough time to just take multiple photos.
    OR... better yet, use your experience to know good starting exposures, and
    take it from there. Heck, that's how we used to take photos back when we
    used that four letter F word. The instant feedback of digital is an extra
    bonus. Yes previewing the exposure of your photo is handy, but not really
    essential.
    >
    > Unlike every other DSLR on earth with only an OVF where none of this is
    > ever
    > possible, but it IS possible on nearly every P&S camera in existence with
    > an
    > LCD/EVF.
    >
    > Get your head out of your DSLR ass, it's been stuck up there so long with
    > your
    > ancient technology you can't even see the light.
    >
     
    Doug Jewell, Sep 11, 2007
    #19
  20. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=

    RichA Guest

    On Sep 10, 10:56 pm, George Anderson <> wrote:
    > Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:
    > > RichA wrote:

    >
    > >>> If I point the camera towards the sun would I be able to view
    > >>> sunspots without a White-light filter or H-alpha (H-A) filter?

    >
    > >> Concentrate the light from the unfiltered sun with a lens onto the
    > >> sensor and KISS it goodby.

    >
    > > I'm just trying to find a valid justification for Live View, that's
    > > all. So
    > > far it's not happening. I wonder if I can get Canon to remove it from
    > > my Mk
    > > III and get a $25 rebate?

    >
    > > Rita

    >
    > If the live view on the MkIII is the same thing (or similar) as the 20DA
    > came with then slap on a piece of Baader film in front of the 400mm lens
    > and you will be able to see a fair bit of detail in the sunspots as well
    > as be able to count them.
    > The sun is 0.5 of a degree in diameter so from your FOV of the 400 you
    > should get an idea of the pixel resolution for the solar image.
    >
    > George- Hide quoted text -
    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    You need 2000mm of focal length with a 35mm equivalent sensor size to
    fill the field of view top of frame to bottom with the Sun. For a 1.5
    crop, 1500mm.
    Going below this is why camera lens pictures of the Moon, Sun are SO
    inferior to longer focal length telescope images. If you can avoid
    cropping
    a sub-frame sized image, do so.
     
    RichA, Sep 11, 2007
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Joshua G

    Image Cataloguing Software needed -- View Count

    Joshua G, Mar 5, 2004, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    411
    Joshua G
    Mar 5, 2004
  2. Thomas Bell
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    2,113
    Thomas Bell
    Nov 19, 2003
  3. Stephen Reynolds

    Body Count - Live In LA DVD Review

    Stephen Reynolds, Mar 17, 2006, in forum: DVD Video
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    688
    Stephen Reynolds
    Mar 17, 2006
  4. =?Utf-8?B?TWlrZSBSLg==?=

    Sunspots, Aliens, or a Broken Router

    =?Utf-8?B?TWlrZSBSLg==?=, May 8, 2007, in forum: Wireless Networking
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    343
    =?Utf-8?B?TWlrZSBSLg==?=
    May 8, 2007
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    Replies:
    15
    Views:
    918
    victor
    Aug 17, 2009
Loading...

Share This Page