can i use a 12 volt battery on a 9 volt device ?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by hhgggff, Jul 11, 2009.

  1. hhgggff

    hhgggff Guest

    My friends dad is building a Tardis for his grandson.

    We have rigged up the blue flashing light using a 12 volt car battery, we
    now need to sort out the sounds.

    I was thinking of using an old cars cassette tape, but I have an old 9 volt
    portable cassette handy.

    Will it burn down the TARDIS if I use that instead ?

    tafankuverymuch
     
    hhgggff, Jul 11, 2009
    #1
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  2. hhgggff

    ian field Guest

    "hhgggff" <> wrote in message
    news:Do16m.54775$...
    > My friends dad is building a Tardis for his grandson.
    >
    > We have rigged up the blue flashing light using a 12 volt car battery, we
    > now need to sort out the sounds.
    >
    > I was thinking of using an old cars cassette tape, but I have an old 9
    > volt portable cassette handy.
    >
    > Will it burn down the TARDIS if I use that instead ?
    >
    > tafankuverymuch
    >


    You can get simple to use regulator chips that drop the voltage down, you
    only need a couple of components to make a working voltage regulator. Ask on
    News:sci.electronics.basic - the folk on there are usually very helpful and
    should explain all you need.
     
    ian field, Jul 11, 2009
    #2
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  3. hhgggff

    doS Guest

    you can only jump a few more lightyears with 12 volt.

    "hhgggff" <> wrote in message
    news:Do16m.54775$...
    > My friends dad is building a Tardis for his grandson.
    >
    > We have rigged up the blue flashing light using a 12 volt car battery, we
    > now need to sort out the sounds.
    >
    > I was thinking of using an old cars cassette tape, but I have an old 9
    > volt portable cassette handy.
    >
    > Will it burn down the TARDIS if I use that instead ?
    >
    > tafankuverymuch
    >
     
    doS, Jul 11, 2009
    #3
  4. hhgggff

    chuckcar Guest

    "hhgggff" <> wrote in
    news:Do16m.54775$:

    > My friends dad is building a Tardis for his grandson.
    >
    > We have rigged up the blue flashing light using a 12 volt car battery,
    > we now need to sort out the sounds.
    >
    > I was thinking of using an old cars cassette tape, but I have an old 9
    > volt portable cassette handy.
    >
    > Will it burn down the TARDIS if I use that instead ?
    >

    The tape motor will run at the wrong speed for one. What you need is a
    voltage regulator. A 7809 should do the trick. The 7800 series convert DC
    voltages. Granted a transformer does it, but these handle *much* wider
    voltage inputs and are tiny in comparison. A 7812 hooked to the +12v
    connection with the other connection hooked to a 200 microfarad capacitor
    should give you a rock solid +9v out. You'll need a piece of breadboard
    about 1" square to mount these on.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/78xx

    --
    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
     
    chuckcar, Jul 11, 2009
    #4
  5. hhgggff

    ian field Guest

    "chuckcar" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9C459893424AFchucknilcar@127.0.0.1...
    > "hhgggff" <> wrote in
    > news:Do16m.54775$:
    >
    >> My friends dad is building a Tardis for his grandson.
    >>
    >> We have rigged up the blue flashing light using a 12 volt car battery,
    >> we now need to sort out the sounds.
    >>
    >> I was thinking of using an old cars cassette tape, but I have an old 9
    >> volt portable cassette handy.
    >>
    >> Will it burn down the TARDIS if I use that instead ?
    >>

    > The tape motor will run at the wrong speed for one. What you need is a
    > voltage regulator. A 7809 should do the trick. The 7800 series convert DC
    > voltages. Granted a transformer does it, but these handle *much* wider
    > voltage inputs and are tiny in comparison. A 7812 hooked to the +12v
    > connection with the other connection hooked to a 200 microfarad capacitor
    > should give you a rock solid +9v out. You'll need a piece of breadboard
    > about 1" square to mount these on.
    >


    You should read up on a subject you know little about before giving advice
    to others.

    Even in older cassette recorders the motors had centrifugal speed governors
    and modern ones have an IC speed controller (otherwise they'd run slower and
    slower as the battery was used).

    Your mention of transformers is misleading, without a "chopper" circuit to
    convert DC into AC a transformer will burn out.

    The OP is best advised to ask people who are equipped to give accurate
    advice, such as the folk on News:sci.electronics.basics .
     
    ian field, Jul 11, 2009
    #5
  6. hhgggff

    chuckcar Guest

    "ian field" <> wrote in
    news:VZ56m.172$2:

    >
    > "chuckcar" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns9C459893424AFchucknilcar@127.0.0.1...
    >> "hhgggff" <> wrote in
    >> news:Do16m.54775$:
    >>
    >>> My friends dad is building a Tardis for his grandson.
    >>>
    >>> We have rigged up the blue flashing light using a 12 volt car battery,
    >>> we now need to sort out the sounds.
    >>>
    >>> I was thinking of using an old cars cassette tape, but I have an old 9
    >>> volt portable cassette handy.
    >>>
    >>> Will it burn down the TARDIS if I use that instead ?
    >>>

    >> The tape motor will run at the wrong speed for one. What you need is a
    >> voltage regulator. A 7809 should do the trick. The 7800 series convert
    >> DC voltages. Granted a transformer does it, but these handle *much*
    >> wider voltage inputs and are tiny in comparison. A 7812 hooked to the
    >> +12v connection with the other connection hooked to a 200 microfarad
    >> capacitor should give you a rock solid +9v out. You'll need a piece of
    >> breadboard about 1" square to mount these on.
    >>

    >
    > You should read up on a subject you know little about before giving
    > advice to others.
    >

    Considering the fact that my post is *far* more detailed than yours,
    you're hardly a person to make such a judgement = along with your errors
    detaied below.

    > Even in older cassette recorders the motors had centrifugal speed
    > governors and modern ones have an IC speed controller (otherwise they'd
    > run slower and slower as the battery was used).
    >

    And none of this would burn out with 1 1/3 times the voltage input?
    dubious.

    > Your mention of transformers is misleading, without a "chopper" circuit
    > to convert DC into AC a transformer will burn out.
    >

    He's *using* a DC power source - a car battery. So a rectifier circuit or
    an analogue is completely unncessary

    > The OP is best advised to ask people who are equipped to give accurate
    > advice, such as the folk on News:sci.electronics.basics .
    >

    One *minor* correction of my post however - that *should* have been a 7809
    not a 7812. This I picked up immediately when I read your reply. A pretty basic
    error you didn't even notice. a 7812 converts *to* 12v whereas a 7809 converts
    to 5v. Hence their names.

    --
    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
     
    chuckcar, Jul 11, 2009
    #6
  7. hhgggff

    rf Guest

    "chuckcar" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9C45B2F782332chucknilcar@127.0.0.1...

    > A pretty basic error you didn't even notice.


    > a 7812 converts *to* 12v whereas a 7809 converts
    > to 5v. Hence their names.


    5V?

    ROFL
     
    rf, Jul 12, 2009
    #7
  8. hhgggff

    chuckcar Guest

    "rf" <> wrote in
    news:3zc6m.4396$:

    >
    > "chuckcar" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns9C45B2F782332chucknilcar@127.0.0.1...
    >
    >> A pretty basic error you didn't even notice.

    >
    >> a 7812 converts *to* 12v whereas a 7809 converts
    >> to 5v. Hence their names.

    >
    > 5V?
    >

    Yeah. 9v of course. dammit janet.




    --
    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
     
    chuckcar, Jul 12, 2009
    #8
  9. In article <Xns9C45B2F782332chucknilcar@127.0.0.1>,
    chuckcar <> wrote:

    > "ian field" <> wrote in
    > news:VZ56m.172$2:
    >
    > >
    > > "chuckcar" <> wrote in message
    > > news:Xns9C459893424AFchucknilcar@127.0.0.1...
    > >> "hhgggff" <> wrote in
    > >> news:Do16m.54775$:
    > >>
    > >>> My friends dad is building a Tardis for his grandson.
    > >>>
    > >>> We have rigged up the blue flashing light using a 12 volt car battery,
    > >>> we now need to sort out the sounds.
    > >>>
    > >>> I was thinking of using an old cars cassette tape, but I have an old 9
    > >>> volt portable cassette handy.
    > >>>
    > >>> Will it burn down the TARDIS if I use that instead ?
    > >>>
    > >> The tape motor will run at the wrong speed for one. What you need is a
    > >> voltage regulator. A 7809 should do the trick. The 7800 series convert
    > >> DC voltages. Granted a transformer does it, but these handle *much*
    > >> wider voltage inputs and are tiny in comparison. A 7812 hooked to the
    > >> +12v connection with the other connection hooked to a 200 microfarad
    > >> capacitor should give you a rock solid +9v out. You'll need a piece of
    > >> breadboard about 1" square to mount these on.
    > >>

    > >
    > > You should read up on a subject you know little about before giving
    > > advice to others.
    > >

    > Considering the fact that my post is *far* more detailed than yours,
    > you're hardly a person to make such a judgement = along with your errors
    > detaied below.
    >
    > > Even in older cassette recorders the motors had centrifugal speed
    > > governors and modern ones have an IC speed controller (otherwise they'd
    > > run slower and slower as the battery was used).
    > >

    > And none of this would burn out with 1 1/3 times the voltage input?
    > dubious.
    >
    > > Your mention of transformers is misleading, without a "chopper" circuit
    > > to convert DC into AC a transformer will burn out.
    > >

    > He's *using* a DC power source - a car battery. So a rectifier circuit or
    > an analogue is completely unncessary
    >
    > > The OP is best advised to ask people who are equipped to give accurate
    > > advice, such as the folk on News:sci.electronics.basics .
    > >

    > One *minor* correction of my post however - that *should* have been a 7809
    > not a 7812. This I picked up immediately when I read your reply. A pretty
    > basic
    > error you didn't even notice. a 7812 converts *to* 12v whereas a 7809
    > converts
    > to 5v. Hence their names.


    Two resistors tapped between them should do the trick and limit current.
     
    Walter Bushell, Jul 12, 2009
    #9
  10. hhgggff

    hhgggff Guest

    Thanks

    I will look into a voltage regulator but will probably just get an old car
    stereo as it's easier

    tafankuverymuch
     
    hhgggff, Jul 12, 2009
    #10
  11. hhgggff

    mr deo Guest

    "hhgggff" <> wrote in message
    news:Do16m.54775$...
    > My friends dad is building a Tardis for his grandson.
    >
    > We have rigged up the blue flashing light using a 12 volt car battery, we
    > now need to sort out the sounds.
    >
    > I was thinking of using an old cars cassette tape, but I have an old 9

    volt
    > portable cassette handy.
    >
    > Will it burn down the TARDIS if I use that instead ?
    >
    > tafankuverymuch
    >


    If the old player isnt that important, just wire it up and see what happens
    ;)..
    Worst case is that your throwing away something that probably shoulda been
    discarded years ago anyhow..
    If it just plays too fast then you can make a slower recording ;P..


    http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM2575.html
    throw in a diode, inductor, couple of caps, and a variable resistor and you
    have a up to 1amp source :/..
    Course, it might just be cheaper and easier to find some crappy used phone
    charger or something that has a output close to 9v ;)..
     
    mr deo, Jul 13, 2009
    #11
  12. hhgggff

    chuckcar Guest

    "Electronworks.co.uk" <> wrote in
    news::

    >
    >
    > "chuckcar" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns9C45B2F782332chucknilcar@127.0.0.1...
    >> "ian field" <> wrote in
    >> news:VZ56m.172$2:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> "chuckcar" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:Xns9C459893424AFchucknilcar@127.0.0.1...
    >>>> "hhgggff" <> wrote in
    >>>> news:Do16m.54775$:
    >>>>
    >>>>> My friends dad is building a Tardis for his grandson.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> We have rigged up the blue flashing light using a 12 volt car
    >>>>> battery, we now need to sort out the sounds.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I was thinking of using an old cars cassette tape, but I have an old
    >>>>> 9 volt portable cassette handy.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Will it burn down the TARDIS if I use that instead ?
    >>>>>
    >>>> The tape motor will run at the wrong speed for one. What you need is
    >>>> a voltage regulator. A 7809 should do the trick. The 7800 series
    >>>> convert DC voltages. Granted a transformer does it, but these handle
    >>>> *much* wider voltage inputs and are tiny in comparison. A 7812 hooked
    >>>> to the +12v connection with the other connection hooked to a 200
    >>>> microfarad capacitor should give you a rock solid +9v out. You'll
    >>>> need a piece of breadboard about 1" square to mount these on.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> You should read up on a subject you know little about before giving
    >>> advice to others.
    >>>

    >> Considering the fact that my post is *far* more detailed than yours,
    >> you're hardly a person to make such a judgement = along with your
    >> errors detaied below.
    >>
    >>> Even in older cassette recorders the motors had centrifugal speed
    >>> governors and modern ones have an IC speed controller (otherwise
    >>> they'd run slower and slower as the battery was used).
    >>>

    >> And none of this would burn out with 1 1/3 times the voltage input?
    >> dubious.
    >>
    >>> Your mention of transformers is misleading, without a "chopper"
    >>> circuit to convert DC into AC a transformer will burn out.
    >>>

    >> He's *using* a DC power source - a car battery. So a rectifier circuit
    >> or an analogue is completely unncessary
    >>
    >>> The OP is best advised to ask people who are equipped to give accurate
    >>> advice, such as the folk on News:sci.electronics.basics .
    >>>

    >> One *minor* correction of my post however - that *should* have been a
    >> 7809 not a 7812. This I picked up immediately when I read your reply. A
    >> pretty basic
    >> error you didn't even notice. a 7812 converts *to* 12v whereas a 7809
    >> converts
    >> to 5v. Hence their names.
    >>
    >> --
    >> (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )

    >
    > Just a few corrections:
    > you can only use a transformer with an ac supply, unless you are going
    > to use it in a switched mode operation (in which case, it is arguably
    > still ac).
    >
    > A 7809 gives out 9V not 5V.
    >

    Message-ID: <Xns9C45EFC12936Cchucknilcar@127.0.0.1>

    > Who mentioned anything about a rectifier circuit?
    >

    Implied by references to a non-existant AC power source.

    --
    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
     
    chuckcar, Jul 13, 2009
    #12
  13. hhgggff

    chuckcar Guest

    John Fields <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 21:50:55 +0000 (UTC), chuckcar <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>"ian field" <> wrote in
    >>news:VZ56m.172$2:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> "chuckcar" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:Xns9C459893424AFchucknilcar@127.0.0.1...
    >>>> "hhgggff" <> wrote in
    >>>> news:Do16m.54775$:
    >>>>
    >>>>> My friends dad is building a Tardis for his grandson.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> We have rigged up the blue flashing light using a 12 volt car
    >>>>> battery, we now need to sort out the sounds.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I was thinking of using an old cars cassette tape, but I have an old
    >>>>> 9 volt portable cassette handy.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Will it burn down the TARDIS if I use that instead ?
    >>>>>
    >>>> The tape motor will run at the wrong speed for one. What you need is
    >>>> a voltage regulator. A 7809 should do the trick. The 7800 series
    >>>> convert DC voltages. Granted a transformer does it, but these handle
    >>>> *much* wider voltage inputs and are tiny in comparison. A 7812 hooked
    >>>> to the +12v connection with the other connection hooked to a 200
    >>>> microfarad capacitor should give you a rock solid +9v out. You'll
    >>>> need a piece of breadboard about 1" square to mount these on.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> You should read up on a subject you know little about before giving
    >>> advice to others.
    >>>

    >>Considering the fact that my post is *far* more detailed than yours,
    >>you're hardly a person to make such a judgement = along with your errors
    >>detaied below.

    >
    > ---
    > The fact that your post was more "detailed" than Ian's doesn't mean that
    > his was wrong.
    > ---
    >
    >>> Even in older cassette recorders the motors had centrifugal speed
    >>> governors and modern ones have an IC speed controller (otherwise
    >>> they'd run slower and slower as the battery was used).
    >>>

    >>And none of this would burn out with 1 1/3 times the voltage input?
    >>dubious.

    >
    > ---
    > Just conjecture without knowing more about the cassette recorder.
    > ---
    >
    >>> Your mention of transformers is misleading, without a "chopper"
    >>> circuit to convert DC into AC a transformer will burn out.
    >>>

    >>He's *using* a DC power source - a car battery. So a rectifier circuit
    >>or an analogue is completely unncessary

    >
    > ---
    > But, since his application runs on DC, your reference to a transformer
    > was misleading since a transformer takes an AC input and supplies an AC
    > output which must then be rectified, filtered, and possibly regulated
    > before it can be used by the DC input device.
    >
    > If, by "transformer", you meant an AC to DC converter, then your
    > terminology was wrong.
    > ---
    >
    >>> The OP is best advised to ask people who are equipped to give accurate
    >>> advice, such as the folk on News:sci.electronics.basics .

    >
    >>One *minor* correction of my post however - that *should* have been a
    >>7809 not a 7812. This I picked up immediately when I read your reply. A
    >>pretty basic error you didn't even notice. a 7812 converts *to* 12v
    >>whereas a 7809 converts to 5v. Hence their names.

    >
    > ---
    > ???
    >
    > A 7809 converts to 9V, not 5V.
    >

    Message-ID: <Xns9C45EFC12936Cchucknilcar@127.0.0.1>

    > In addition, not knowing the current requirements of the recorder, your
    > comment to build it on one square inch of breadboard (perfboard?) may
    > well be inconsistent with the heat-sinking required for the regulator.
    >
    > And why the 200µF capacitor?
    >
    > Why not 10?
    >

    Too small to absorb the variations

    > Why not 1000?
    >

    Way too big for the voltage.

    --
    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
     
    chuckcar, Jul 13, 2009
    #13
  14. hhgggff

    hhgggff Guest

    UPDATE : can i use a 12 volt battery on a 9 volt device ?


    > I was thinking of using an old cars cassette tape, but I have an old 9
    > volt
    > portable cassette handy.


    Well, In the end I just plugged it in and it works,correct speed.

    tafankuverymuch
     
    hhgggff, Jul 17, 2009
    #14
  15. hhgggff

    ian field Guest

    Re: UPDATE : can i use a 12 volt battery on a 9 volt device ?

    "hhgggff" <> wrote in message
    news:cQ%7m.57494$...
    >
    >> I was thinking of using an old cars cassette tape, but I have an old 9
    >> volt
    >> portable cassette handy.

    >
    > Well, In the end I just plugged it in and it works,correct speed.
    >
    > tafankuverymuch


    If you're running a 9V cassette player from a car battery, don't run it at
    full volume - the audio output might be the weak link.
     
    ian field, Jul 17, 2009
    #15
  16. hhgggff

    rf Guest

    Roger Dewhurst wrote:
    >> You can get simple to use regulator chips that drop the voltage
    >> down, you only need a couple of components to make a working voltage
    >> regulator. Ask on News:sci.electronics.basic - the folk on there are
    >> usually very helpful and should explain all you need.
    >>
    >>

    > Why not just drop the voltage through a few diodes? Very simple. Very
    > cheap.


    A *few* diodes at a couple of ten cents per each. A single 7809 for less
    that a $.
     
    rf, Jul 24, 2009
    #16
  17. hhgggff

    Ian Jackson Guest

    In message <Bqfam.7029$>, rf
    <> writes
    >Roger Dewhurst wrote:
    >>> You can get simple to use regulator chips that drop the voltage
    >>> down, you only need a couple of components to make a working voltage
    >>> regulator. Ask on News:sci.electronics.basic - the folk on there are
    >>> usually very helpful and should explain all you need.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Why not just drop the voltage through a few diodes? Very simple. Very
    >> cheap.

    >
    >A *few* diodes at a couple of ten cents per each. A single 7809 for less
    >that a $.
    >

    More like "a *few* diodes at a couple of cents per each".

    3V to drop = 5 diodes @ 0.6V per diode. No other circuitry required.
    More than good enough for the job.
    --
    Ian
     
    Ian Jackson, Jul 29, 2009
    #17
  18. hhgggff

    ian field Guest

    "Ian Jackson" <> wrote in message
    news:RK8$...
    > In message <Bqfam.7029$>, rf
    > <> writes
    >>Roger Dewhurst wrote:
    >>>> You can get simple to use regulator chips that drop the voltage
    >>>> down, you only need a couple of components to make a working voltage
    >>>> regulator. Ask on News:sci.electronics.basic - the folk on there are
    >>>> usually very helpful and should explain all you need.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> Why not just drop the voltage through a few diodes? Very simple. Very
    >>> cheap.

    >>
    >>A *few* diodes at a couple of ten cents per each. A single 7809 for less
    >>that a $.
    >>

    > More like "a *few* diodes at a couple of cents per each".
    >
    > 3V to drop = 5 diodes @ 0.6V per diode. No other circuitry required. More
    > than good enough for the job.
    > --
    > Ian


    The forward conduction knee curve on diodes isn't *that* sharp, depending on
    current draw and rating of the diode the drop can be as low as 0.55V and as
    high as 1.1V.
     
    ian field, Jul 29, 2009
    #18
  19. hhgggff

    rf Guest

    "Ian Jackson" <> wrote in message
    news:RK8$...
    > In message <Bqfam.7029$>, rf
    > <> writes
    >>Roger Dewhurst wrote:
    >>>> You can get simple to use regulator chips that drop the voltage
    >>>> down, you only need a couple of components to make a working voltage
    >>>> regulator. Ask on News:sci.electronics.basic - the folk on there are
    >>>> usually very helpful and should explain all you need.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>> Why not just drop the voltage through a few diodes? Very simple. Very
    >>> cheap.

    >>
    >>A *few* diodes at a couple of ten cents per each. A single 7809 for less
    >>that a $.
    >>

    > More like "a *few* diodes at a couple of cents per each".
    >
    > 3V to drop = 5 diodes @ 0.6V per diode. No other circuitry required. More
    > than good enough for the job.


    Exactly one 7809 for less than a buck. No other circutry required. Perfect
    regulation.
     
    rf, Jul 30, 2009
    #19
  20. hhgggff

    Ian Jackson Guest

    In message <AC3cm.163781$2>, ian field
    <> writes
    >
    >"Ian Jackson" <> wrote in message
    >news:RK8$...
    >> In message <Bqfam.7029$>, rf
    >> <> writes
    >>>Roger Dewhurst wrote:
    >>>>> You can get simple to use regulator chips that drop the voltage
    >>>>> down, you only need a couple of components to make a working voltage
    >>>>> regulator. Ask on News:sci.electronics.basic - the folk on there are
    >>>>> usually very helpful and should explain all you need.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>> Why not just drop the voltage through a few diodes? Very simple. Very
    >>>> cheap.
    >>>
    >>>A *few* diodes at a couple of ten cents per each. A single 7809 for less
    >>>that a $.
    >>>

    >> More like "a *few* diodes at a couple of cents per each".
    >>
    >> 3V to drop = 5 diodes @ 0.6V per diode. No other circuitry required. More
    >> than good enough for the job.
    >> --
    >> Ian

    >
    >The forward conduction knee curve on diodes isn't *that* sharp, depending on
    >current draw and rating of the diode the drop can be as low as 0.55V and as
    >high as 1.1V.
    >

    For most 'normal' Si diodes, that isn't really the case. The actual
    voltage drop does, of course, increase with current, but at 'sensible'
    currents, you can reckon on around 0.65V per diode. How much current is
    the Tardis toy going to take? 1A max? 4 or 5 1N4000-series diodes should
    work fine in this application. I've used this non-elegant 'KISS'
    technique on several occasions, and haven't found any problems.
    --
    Ian
     
    Ian Jackson, Jul 30, 2009
    #20
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    re: 4.5 volt charger, not 5 volt?

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    result: 4.5 volt charger, not 5 volt?

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