camera review site with RAW samples?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Tim, Jun 24, 2006.

  1. Tim

    Tim Guest

    Are there any camera review sites like dpreview that have sample RAW
    photos?

    Thanks.
     
    Tim, Jun 24, 2006
    #1
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  2. Tim

    k-man Guest

    What is it that you're trying to find out? RAW vs. JPG? Whether RAW's
    are any good? The RAW output from one camera vs. the RAW output from
    another?

    Kevin


    Tim wrote:
    > Are there any camera review sites like dpreview that have sample RAW
    > photos?
    >
    > Thanks.
     
    k-man, Jun 24, 2006
    #2
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  3. Tim

    Tim Guest

    In article <>,
    "k-man" <> wrote:

    > What is it that you're trying to find out? RAW vs. JPG? Whether RAW's
    > are any good? The RAW output from one camera vs. the RAW output from
    > another?
    >
    > Kevin
    >
    >
    > Tim wrote:
    > > Are there any camera review sites like dpreview that have sample RAW
    > > photos?
    > >
    > > Thanks.


    I'm trying to decide whether to bite the bullet and buy a Nikon digital
    SLR for my nikon lenses. I've been using film cameras for 20 years. I've
    compared dpreview sample jpegs of the sub $1700 SLRs from Canon and
    Nikon. I want to stay with Nikon but I wasn't impressed with the D50/D70
    prints and those <$900 bodies are most within my budget. I was hoping
    that maybe the jpegs weren't fully representative of the best images
    that a D50/D70 could produce. If not, I may need to wait for the next
    generation of SLRs in that price range.
     
    Tim, Jun 24, 2006
    #3
  4. Tim

    tomm42 Guest

    Tim wrote:
    > Are there any camera review sites like dpreview that have sample RAW
    > photos?
    >
    > Thanks.


    There is no such thing as a RAW image, RAW files are just image
    information from the camera, kinda like undeveloped film. RAW files are
    "developed" by programs such as Adobe RAW, Phase One C1, and each
    camera manufacturer has their own. What the file looks like has to do
    with these programs and the way the photograph was made. Again like
    using different developers with B&W film. The programs supplied by the
    camera manufacturers (not necessarily with the camera) often use the
    same data as the jpegs from the camera as a starting point. The
    noncamera based programs can be calibrated for each camera, or you can
    start from scratch (not as bad as it sounds). So a file from my Nikon
    D200 looks different from Adobe RAW, Nikon Capture, and Pixmantix's Raw
    Shooter Essentials, subtle variations. The final image will generally
    look very close, but it may take more work in some programs. Hope this
    helps

    Tom
     
    tomm42, Jun 24, 2006
    #4
  5. Tim

    tomm42 Guest


    > I'm trying to decide whether to bite the bullet and buy a Nikon digital
    > SLR for my nikon lenses. I've been using film cameras for 20 years. I've
    > compared dpreview sample jpegs of the sub $1700 SLRs from Canon and
    > Nikon. I want to stay with Nikon but I wasn't impressed with the D50/D70
    > prints and those <$900 bodies are most within my budget. I was hoping
    > that maybe the jpegs weren't fully representative of the best images
    > that a D50/D70 could produce. If not, I may need to wait for the next
    > generation of SLRs in that price range.


    What Nikon Do you have now? Is it autofocus, cause the D70/D50 can only
    meter with autofocus lenses, the D200 can use AIS or AI lenses. Did you
    download the images from dpreview or just look at them on the web? Also
    look at the outside images from Steves Digicams too. To really look at
    the images you need to download them and use a calibrated monitor, the
    little Adobe utility is fine. Also look at the forums on dpreview and
    Fred Miranda's site there you find folks who have really learned to use
    these cameras. I often wonder how the reviewers can keep track of the
    5+ cameras they are reviewing at any one time. Digital SLR argueably
    can out perform film SLRs, mostly it is all up to the photographer.

    Tom
     
    tomm42, Jun 24, 2006
    #5
  6. > I was hoping
    > that maybe the jpegs weren't fully representative of the best images
    > that a D50/D70 could produce. If not, I may need to wait for the next
    > generation of SLRs in that price range.


    JPEGs are very representative of the camera's abilities. You might find
    a little more detail in the shadows and highlights of a RAW image, but
    in general if you're not happy with the quality of JPEG images you won't
    be any happier with RAW images. In many correctly exposed JPEGs, such as
    the sample images you'll find on dpreview, there will be little to no
    difference between the JPEG version and the RAW version.

    --
    <a href="http://www.derekfountain.org/">Derek Fountain</a> on the web at
    http://www.derekfountain.org/
     
    Derek Fountain, Jun 24, 2006
    #6
  7. Tim

    Davy Guest

    Davy, Jun 24, 2006
    #7
  8. Tim <> wrote:
    >I'm trying to decide whether to bite the bullet and buy a Nikon digital
    >SLR for my nikon lenses. I've been using film cameras for 20 years. I've


    Keep in mind that if you are just getting into digital
    photography you may not be set up to properly evaluate images.
    A large /calibrated/ monitor is essential (and the average 4-5
    year old CRT is simply *not* suitable).

    Also necessary is an understanding of the process, which in this
    case means knowing that RAW is merely the sensor data, not an
    image file. It is somewhat similar to the undeveloped film
    you've been using, with the added advantage that you can develop
    it multiple times using different software programs.

    >compared dpreview sample jpegs of the sub $1700 SLRs from Canon and
    >Nikon. I want to stay with Nikon but I wasn't impressed with the D50/D70
    >prints and those <$900 bodies are most within my budget. I was hoping
    >that maybe the jpegs weren't fully representative of the best images
    >that a D50/D70 could produce.


    Given the above, it is hard to know if your evaluation was
    accurate. It might have been, might not have been. Also, you
    might want to "shoot jpeg", which is to let the camera convert
    the raw data to jpeg and save only that to the CF card; or you
    might be more comfortable letting the camera save the RAW file
    and do your own conversion using whatever software you select.
    (Sort of how most folks used to use D-76 or Microdol to develop
    Tri-X, but I always used Agfa Rodinal... and the results were
    *very* different.)

    >If not, I may need to wait for the next
    >generation of SLRs in that price range.


    Consider the Nikon D200. Also you might consider a refurbished
    or used model. That is *particularly* true if you have Ais or
    other non-AF lenses. The D50/D70 does not accomodate the older
    lenses as well as the D200 or the pro models (D1 or D2
    variations).

    If you are into playing with "gadgets"... and have a shelf full
    of old lenses and odd things like bellows, focal extenders,
    etc., you will want to skip the D50/D70 models.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
     
    Floyd L. Davidson, Jun 24, 2006
    #8
  9. Tim

    Tim Guest

    In article <>,
    "tomm42" <> wrote:

    > > I'm trying to decide whether to bite the bullet and buy a Nikon digital
    > > SLR for my nikon lenses. I've been using film cameras for 20 years. I've
    > > compared dpreview sample jpegs of the sub $1700 SLRs from Canon and
    > > Nikon. I want to stay with Nikon but I wasn't impressed with the D50/D70
    > > prints and those <$900 bodies are most within my budget. I was hoping
    > > that maybe the jpegs weren't fully representative of the best images
    > > that a D50/D70 could produce. If not, I may need to wait for the next
    > > generation of SLRs in that price range.

    >
    > What Nikon Do you have now? Is it autofocus, cause the D70/D50 can only
    > meter with autofocus lenses, the D200 can use AIS or AI lenses. Did you
    > download the images from dpreview or just look at them on the web? Also
    > look at the outside images from Steves Digicams too. To really look at
    > the images you need to download them and use a calibrated monitor, the
    > little Adobe utility is fine. Also look at the forums on dpreview and
    > Fred Miranda's site there you find folks who have really learned to use
    > these cameras. I often wonder how the reviewers can keep track of the
    > 5+ cameras they are reviewing at any one time. Digital SLR argueably
    > can out perform film SLRs, mostly it is all up to the photographer.
    >
    > Tom


    I'm mainly still using an 8008 with several zooms and primes, all AF.
     
    Tim, Jun 24, 2006
    #9
  10. Tim

    k-man Guest

    When you said that you weren't impressed with the prints, to what
    attributes were you referring? Color? Sharpness? Tonal graduation?
    Printable size? Maybe you just weren't happy with the samples in
    general just because they weren't impressive-enough pictures to begin
    with?

    Someone mentioned that there's little difference between JPGs and RAW
    (after you've converted it to TIF or a less-compressed JPG, etc.).
    There is a distinguishable difference.

    I think in terms of enlarging, film is still where it's at. But in
    terms of quality, digital is right up there with film, particularly if
    you shoot with decent-quality lenses -- they make a huge difference.

    The D200 is excellent but out of your indicated budget range. I have a
    D70s and love it and have gotten some excellent excellent pics from it
    (particularly with the 70-200 f/2.8 VR and the 105 f/2.8 macro). But
    it's too noisy in low light for me above 400 and has some other
    limitations, such as the lenses it can support, the smallish viewfinder
    and that I'd just rather have the D200.

    I've seen some excellent-to-mint condition used D1X's on eBay for less
    than $900. You might want to consider one of those. It doesn't have
    as strong a feature set as the D200; but it's a very nice camera.

    Kevin



    Tim wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > "k-man" <> wrote:
    >
    > > What is it that you're trying to find out? RAW vs. JPG? Whether RAW's
    > > are any good? The RAW output from one camera vs. the RAW output from
    > > another?
    > >
    > > Kevin
    > >
    > >
    > > Tim wrote:
    > > > Are there any camera review sites like dpreview that have sample RAW
    > > > photos?
    > > >
    > > > Thanks.

    >
    > I'm trying to decide whether to bite the bullet and buy a Nikon digital
    > SLR for my nikon lenses. I've been using film cameras for 20 years. I've
    > compared dpreview sample jpegs of the sub $1700 SLRs from Canon and
    > Nikon. I want to stay with Nikon but I wasn't impressed with the D50/D70
    > prints and those <$900 bodies are most within my budget. I was hoping
    > that maybe the jpegs weren't fully representative of the best images
    > that a D50/D70 could produce. If not, I may need to wait for the next
    > generation of SLRs in that price range.
     
    k-man, Jun 24, 2006
    #10
  11. Tim

    Tim Guest

    In article <>,
    "k-man" <> wrote:

    > When you said that you weren't impressed with the prints, to what
    > attributes were you referring? Color? Sharpness? Tonal graduation?
    > Printable size? Maybe you just weren't happy with the samples in
    > general just because they weren't impressive-enough pictures to begin
    > with?


    With the D200 and above, the images on screen and on print showed
    surface details and other details that the lower megapixel cameras
    weren't showing. The cheaper camera images just looked "unsharp" and
    blurry even after using unsharp mask.

    > Someone mentioned that there's little difference between JPGs and RAW
    > (after you've converted it to TIF or a less-compressed JPG, etc.).
    > There is a distinguishable difference.
    >
    > I think in terms of enlarging, film is still where it's at. But in
    > terms of quality, digital is right up there with film, particularly if
    > you shoot with decent-quality lenses -- they make a huge difference.
    >
    > The D200 is excellent but out of your indicated budget range. I have a
    > D70s and love it and have gotten some excellent excellent pics from it
    > (particularly with the 70-200 f/2.8 VR and the 105 f/2.8 macro). But
    > it's too noisy in low light for me above 400 and has some other
    > limitations, such as the lenses it can support, the smallish viewfinder
    > and that I'd just rather have the D200.


    My test prints of the D200 looked great, even without sharpening.

    > I've seen some excellent-to-mint condition used D1X's on eBay for less
    > than $900. You might want to consider one of those. It doesn't have
    > as strong a feature set as the D200; but it's a very nice camera.
    >
    > Kevin
    >
    >
    >
    > Tim wrote:
    > > In article <>,
    > > "k-man" <> wrote:
    > >
    > > > What is it that you're trying to find out? RAW vs. JPG? Whether RAW's
    > > > are any good? The RAW output from one camera vs. the RAW output from
    > > > another?
    > > >
    > > > Kevin
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Tim wrote:
    > > > > Are there any camera review sites like dpreview that have sample RAW
    > > > > photos?
    > > > >
    > > > > Thanks.

    > >
    > > I'm trying to decide whether to bite the bullet and buy a Nikon digital
    > > SLR for my nikon lenses. I've been using film cameras for 20 years. I've
    > > compared dpreview sample jpegs of the sub $1700 SLRs from Canon and
    > > Nikon. I want to stay with Nikon but I wasn't impressed with the D50/D70
    > > prints and those <$900 bodies are most within my budget. I was hoping
    > > that maybe the jpegs weren't fully representative of the best images
    > > that a D50/D70 could produce. If not, I may need to wait for the next
    > > generation of SLRs in that price range.
     
    Tim, Jun 24, 2006
    #11
  12. Tim

    dicktay Guest

    Here are some.
    Taken with a Fuji 9x00 in bright sunlight . Two sets (1) Mid range F stop
    at different focal lenght and (2) and wide open, mid range, and small F
    stops at different focal lenghts.
    Pis are 1024x768 and the original RAW files are on line as well (zipped) so
    you can load them into your own ap for viewing. You may need later updates
    for Photoshop (elements) to see them.
    Hope this helps.
    Richard

    http://www.poseruniverse.net/Photography.html


    "Tim" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Are there any camera review sites like dpreview that have sample RAW
    > photos?
    >
    > Thanks.
     
    dicktay, Jun 25, 2006
    #12
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