calling all NZ Tivo users

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by tim, Jul 23, 2003.

  1. tim

    tim Guest

    Anyone here know of anyone in NZ who owns a Tivo. I am looking for New
    Zealand users of Tivo.

    I am working on a timeslice encoder/decoder so that I can create the Tivo
    EPG (Electronic Program Guide) for Sky Digital. I still don't know what the
    story is with the IR codes for Sky Digitals set-top boxes (pace, motorola,
    etc) but I don't think that is a (big) problem tho.

    I am aware of Australian Tivo users. They have Satellite and broadcasted
    channels available as do a number of other non-US countries so I know it is
    possible to both create the timeslice data and to get the IR codes for the
    satellite set-top boxes so that the IR Blaster (the device that communicates
    with the sky box) can send the correct signal to change the channel.

    Making a homebrew PVR is ok I guess but the real deal would be with Tivo...

    I wrote some code to parse the tv listing data on the sky tv site
    (www.sky.co.nz). That was the easy part. I output it to XMLTV's xml format
    and have tested this on snapstream (www.snapstream.com) and it works fine.
    I guess using a pc solution would be ok if u brought a video capture card
    with hardware mpeg2 encoding. grr either that or else wait until Sky
    released a set-top box with HD recording capabilities (as they mentioned
    about over a year ago). I doubt it'll happen tho...

    so yeah, share your ideas on PVR's please. If your using a linux solution,
    eg MythTV or Freevo, or you have some nice windows solution then please
    share your thoughts too.

    cya
     
    tim, Jul 23, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. tim

    Jay Guest

    tim wrote:

    >
    > so yeah, share your ideas on PVR's please. If your using a linux solution,
    > eg MythTV or Freevo, or you have some nice windows solution then please
    > share your thoughts too.


    I have toyed with the idea of buying a new receiver which supports
    irdeto and contains a 80GB disk - not specifically Tivo though.
    I don't know what system Sky NZ uses, however.

    But after carefully thinking about what I might want to
    record I came to the conclusion that there is nothing worth recording!
    And that is even with the extra channels in Australia that NZ
    doesn't get (like Comedy, Fox8, etc). But it will probably get
    much worse when Foxtel upgrades to 500+ channels soon.

    You see, video is becoming more and more prevalent, and cheaper, and
    less interesting. Why record it when it is there in abundance
    all the time?

    I also thought about whether I would, for example, record a lot of
    stuff on radio. I could build up an enormous collection of music
    and play back what I want whenever I want.

    Trouble is, it is much easier to just switch on a radio and listen
    to whatever is on. It is more interesting that way - you don't get
    saturated with your own limited repertoire.

    Same with video. A lot of people have built up vaste collections of
    DVDs, but really the stuff gets repeated so often anyhow that you
    are going to see it again soon.

    That's my thoughts on PVRs. Fine if they are available but I wouldn't
    go to any special effort or expense to get one. I know that isn't
    exactly the thoughts you were looking for ... but I shared them anyhow.
     
    Jay, Jul 23, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. tim

    Jay Guest

    Craig Sutton wrote:

    >
    > "Jay" <> wrote in message
    > news:bfltsi$fvbpp$-berlin.de...
    >> tim wrote:
    >>
    >> >
    >> > so yeah, share your ideas on PVR's please. If your using a linux

    > solution,
    >> > eg MythTV or Freevo, or you have some nice windows solution then please
    >> > share your thoughts too.

    >>
    >> I have toyed with the idea of buying a new receiver which supports
    >> irdeto and contains a 80GB disk - not specifically Tivo though.
    >> I don't know what system Sky NZ uses, however.
    >>

    > NDS Videoguard
    >
    >> But after carefully thinking about what I might want to
    >> record I came to the conclusion that there is nothing worth recording!
    >> And that is even with the extra channels in Australia that NZ
    >> doesn't get (like Comedy, Fox8, etc). But it will probably get
    >> much worse when Foxtel upgrades to 500+ channels soon.
    >>

    > Foxtel satelite aint going to 500 channels, 120 max... and 30 of them will
    > be PPV movies staggerd by 30 mins.
    > Leaves room for 90 channels. and if 7,9,10 want to be on it there goes
    > another 30 channels due to regionalization. So your left with 60
    > channels...How much do they have now?? you will be lucky to see 10 or 20
    > new channels.


    Most of Foxtel is cable, not satellite.
     
    Jay, Jul 23, 2003
    #3
  4. tim

    Alan Guest

    Can you even buy a TiVo in NZ?

    "tim @tjv.info>" <tim<no-spam> wrote in message
    news:T_sTa.89674$...
    > Anyone here know of anyone in NZ who owns a Tivo. I am looking for New
    > Zealand users of Tivo.
    >
    > I am working on a timeslice encoder/decoder so that I can create the Tivo
    > EPG (Electronic Program Guide) for Sky Digital. I still don't know what

    the
    > story is with the IR codes for Sky Digitals set-top boxes (pace, motorola,
    > etc) but I don't think that is a (big) problem tho.
    >
    > I am aware of Australian Tivo users. They have Satellite and broadcasted
    > channels available as do a number of other non-US countries so I know it

    is
    > possible to both create the timeslice data and to get the IR codes for the
    > satellite set-top boxes so that the IR Blaster (the device that

    communicates
    > with the sky box) can send the correct signal to change the channel.
    >
    > Making a homebrew PVR is ok I guess but the real deal would be with

    Tivo...
    >
    > I wrote some code to parse the tv listing data on the sky tv site
    > (www.sky.co.nz). That was the easy part. I output it to XMLTV's xml format
    > and have tested this on snapstream (www.snapstream.com) and it works fine.
    > I guess using a pc solution would be ok if u brought a video capture card
    > with hardware mpeg2 encoding. grr either that or else wait until Sky
    > released a set-top box with HD recording capabilities (as they mentioned
    > about over a year ago). I doubt it'll happen tho...
    >
    > so yeah, share your ideas on PVR's please. If your using a linux solution,
    > eg MythTV or Freevo, or you have some nice windows solution then please
    > share your thoughts too.
    >
    > cya
    >
    >
    >
     
    Alan, Jul 23, 2003
    #4
  5. tim

    tim Guest

    No because the service is not available. Only in the states and the uk.
    However, you can buy a 30GB Tivo for around $100-$150US on ebay and you can
    upgrade that with additional hard drives.

    I believe there are actuallly some PVR's available in NZ, eg Thompson. But
    the recording is all manual because there is no guide data being produced in
    NZ.


    "Alan" <> wrote in message
    news:HVBTa.6873$...
    > Can you even buy a TiVo in NZ?
    >
    > "tim @tjv.info>" <tim<no-spam> wrote in message
    > news:T_sTa.89674$...
    > > Anyone here know of anyone in NZ who owns a Tivo. I am looking for New
    > > Zealand users of Tivo.
    > >
    > > I am working on a timeslice encoder/decoder so that I can create the

    Tivo
    > > EPG (Electronic Program Guide) for Sky Digital. I still don't know what

    > the
    > > story is with the IR codes for Sky Digitals set-top boxes (pace,

    motorola,
    > > etc) but I don't think that is a (big) problem tho.
    > >
    > > I am aware of Australian Tivo users. They have Satellite and broadcasted
    > > channels available as do a number of other non-US countries so I know it

    > is
    > > possible to both create the timeslice data and to get the IR codes for

    the
    > > satellite set-top boxes so that the IR Blaster (the device that

    > communicates
    > > with the sky box) can send the correct signal to change the channel.
    > >
    > > Making a homebrew PVR is ok I guess but the real deal would be with

    > Tivo...
    > >
    > > I wrote some code to parse the tv listing data on the sky tv site
    > > (www.sky.co.nz). That was the easy part. I output it to XMLTV's xml

    format
    > > and have tested this on snapstream (www.snapstream.com) and it works

    fine.
    > > I guess using a pc solution would be ok if u brought a video capture

    card
    > > with hardware mpeg2 encoding. grr either that or else wait until Sky
    > > released a set-top box with HD recording capabilities (as they mentioned
    > > about over a year ago). I doubt it'll happen tho...
    > >
    > > so yeah, share your ideas on PVR's please. If your using a linux

    solution,
    > > eg MythTV or Freevo, or you have some nice windows solution then please
    > > share your thoughts too.
    > >
    > > cya
    > >
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    tim, Jul 23, 2003
    #5
  6. tim

    Jay Guest

    Jay, Jul 24, 2003
    #6
  7. tim

    Jay Guest

    tim wrote:

    > You two are a little off topic here. I didn't ask for your bickering on tv
    > selections ok... and please don't reply to this thread.
    >


    Please don't post your trivial complaints to this thread.
    If you don't like what you are reading in this thread then
    don't read it.

    You may have begun the thread but you don't own it.
     
    Jay, Jul 24, 2003
    #7
  8. tim

    Craig Sutton Guest

    "Jay" <> wrote in message
    news:bfn72f$gmr0o$-berlin.de...
    > Craig Sutton wrote:
    >
    > > You still won't see anything like 500 channels...

    >
    > Oh yes you will.
    >
    > http://afr.com/articles/2003/07/22/1058853063928.html
    >

    Its crap! not even the americans have a 500 channel tv service. Also Foxtel
    would need another 3 satellites..
    Don't believe the hype...
     
    Craig Sutton, Jul 24, 2003
    #8
  9. tim

    Craig Sutton Guest

    "tim @tjv.info>" <tim<no-spam> wrote in message
    news:T_sTa.89674$...
    > Anyone here know of anyone in NZ who owns a Tivo. I am looking for New
    > Zealand users of Tivo.
    >
    > I am working on a timeslice encoder/decoder so that I can create the Tivo
    > EPG (Electronic Program Guide) for Sky Digital. I still don't know what

    the
    > story is with the IR codes for Sky Digitals set-top boxes (pace, motorola,
    > etc) but I don't think that is a (big) problem tho.
    >
    > I am aware of Australian Tivo users. They have Satellite and broadcasted
    > channels available as do a number of other non-US countries so I know it

    is
    > possible to both create the timeslice data and to get the IR codes for the
    > satellite set-top boxes so that the IR Blaster (the device that

    communicates
    > with the sky box) can send the correct signal to change the channel.


    Easiest way to get the tvguide data would be a pci sat tuner card, and to go
    to Skys transponder and log the pid stream that transmits the EPG info.
     
    Craig Sutton, Jul 24, 2003
    #9
  10. tim

    Craig Sutton Guest

    "tim @tjv.info>" <tim<no-spam> wrote in message
    news:_6ITa.90404$...
    > I doubt a non-Tivo service would be legal for several reasons, eg

    Tivo/SkyTV
    > IP property/ownership rights...
    >
    > Imagine Sony deciding to produce an alternative to the Microsoft Xbox

    Online
    > game service. Use your Xbox to play on our network...
    >
    > Legal Tivo service in NZ will (presumably) only come from Tivo negotiating
    > with SkyTV to supply Tivo's and use Sky's guide data to create a SkyTV

    Tivo
    > service. I don't see this happening because it would reduce Sky's
    > advertising revenue, there would be pressure from the TV networks not to,
    > etc
    >
    > Of course I could be wrong, I would love to see some kind of DVR

    technology
    > available in NZ. Reckon even if sky did release it tho they would not
    > include the 30 second skip feature..
    >


    Sky have their own PVR, not due in NZ and Aus until 2005...
     
    Craig Sutton, Jul 24, 2003
    #10
  11. > Its crap! not even the americans have a 500 channel tv service. Also
    > Foxtel would need another 3 satellites..


    Perhaps Australia could just again launch their own satellites to fix this
    ?? Like before.

    Oh hang, on, they can't.
     
    Master Tech ©, Jul 24, 2003
    #11
  12. tim

    Jay Guest

    Craig Sutton wrote:

    >
    > "Jay" <> wrote in message
    > news:bfn72f$gmr0o$-berlin.de...
    >> Craig Sutton wrote:
    >>
    >> > You still won't see anything like 500 channels...

    >>
    >> Oh yes you will.
    >>
    >> http://afr.com/articles/2003/07/22/1058853063928.html
    >>

    > Its crap! not even the americans have a 500 channel tv service.


    Oh yes they do.
    For example here is DirecTV's approx 305 channel lineup:

    http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/see/ChannelLineup.jsp

    > Also Foxtel would need another 3 satellites..


    Foxtel is primarily a cable company although they do have
    satellite transponders also. So we are talking about their
    cable offering.

    > Don't believe the hype...


    Don't believe what you read in newsgroups also?
     
    Jay, Jul 24, 2003
    #12
  13. tim

    Jay Guest

    Master Tech © wrote:

    > Jay wrote:
    >> tim wrote:
    >>
    >>> You two are a little off topic here. I didn't ask for your bickering
    >>> on tv selections ok... and please don't reply to this thread.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Please don't post your trivial complaints to this thread.
    >> If you don't like what you are reading in this thread then
    >> don't read it.
    >>
    >> You may have begun the thread but you don't own it.

    >
    > FFS Jay, get a life !


    I've got one.
    Next relevant suggestion?
     
    Jay, Jul 24, 2003
    #13
  14. tim

    Howard Guest

    > I doubt a non-Tivo service would be legal for several reasons, eg
    > Tivo/SkyTV IP property/ownership rights...


    IP means three things Patent / TradeSecret / Copyright

    Patents - maybe they have one under a different name, and maybe they have
    one pending, but at the moment TIVO* don't have any patents, according to
    IPONZ.

    TradeSecret Doesn't apply if we reverse engieer it.

    Any Copyright wouldn't apply, as you can't copyright facts, e.g. the fact
    that Star Trek airs at Xpm on Saturdays on Channel 4 can't be copyrighted.

    >deciding to produce an alternative to the Microsoft Xbox
    > Online game service. Use your Xbox to play on our network...


    MS could only prevent sony doing this if it's a breech of the XBox eula.
    Assuming the eula is silent on the topic, what is to stop anyone from doing
    wxactly what you said? And if kiwis buy tivos on ebay, there ain't no eula
    applicable.

    > Legal Tivo service in NZ will (presumably) only come from Tivo
    > negotiating with SkyTV to supply Tivo's and use Sky's guide data to
    > create a SkyTV Tivo service. I don't see this happening because it
    > would reduce Sky's advertising revenue, there would be pressure from
    > the TV networks not to, etc


    "pressure" an understatement surely. This service would have to be despite
    the TV networks, not because of them. That is for certain.

    > Of course I could be wrong, I would love to see some kind of DVR
    > technology available in NZ. Reckon even if sky did release it tho
    > they would not include the 30 second skip feature..


    But anyway, you imply that the only thing stopping it is legal. What about
    technical? IS the Tivo format open? If it was, what's to stop a group of
    geeks putting up a service where the legal begals can't touch it? Bandwidth
    wouldn't cost toomuch as it would all be text...

    -H
     
    Howard, Jul 24, 2003
    #14
  15. tim

    Jay Guest

    Master Tech © wrote:

    >> Its crap! not even the americans have a 500 channel tv service. Also
    >> Foxtel would need another 3 satellites..

    >
    > Perhaps Australia could just again launch their own satellites to fix this
    > ?? Like before.
    >
    > Oh hang, on, they can't.


    They already have launched the C1 satellite.
    Already Austar customers have switched from B3.
    And the older Pace STBs are being replaced.
    The transponder frequencies are unchanged.
    I think B3 will be decomissioned in Jan.
    Presumably this means that Sky NZ will also make the switch
    to Optus (Aust) C1 satellite?
     
    Jay, Jul 24, 2003
    #15
  16. tim

    Craig Sutton Guest

    "Jay" <> wrote in message
    news:bfno1c$h62pi$-berlin.de...
    > Master Tech © wrote:
    >
    > >> Its crap! not even the americans have a 500 channel tv service. Also
    > >> Foxtel would need another 3 satellites..

    > >
    > > Perhaps Australia could just again launch their own satellites to fix

    this
    > > ?? Like before.
    > >
    > > Oh hang, on, they can't.

    >
    > They already have launched the C1 satellite.
    > Already Austar customers have switched from B3.
    > And the older Pace STBs are being replaced.
    > The transponder frequencies are unchanged.
    > I think B3 will be decomissioned in Jan.
    > Presumably this means that Sky NZ will also make the switch
    > to Optus (Aust) C1 satellite?


    No why would they they are on Optus B1
     
    Craig Sutton, Jul 24, 2003
    #16
  17. tim

    tim Guest

    Hi Howard, nice input btw

    If I am stripping off TV guide info from the Sky TV website and it is
    obvious that their site is the source then is that illegal. Lets assume also
    that I am not selling this content, if that makes any difference.

    > Is the Tivo format open?


    It is not open but it has been reverse engineered, however the specs are not
    widely known.

    > what's to stop a group of geeks putting up a service


    Well if you think I won't get in trouble i'll definately host it..

    > Bandwidth wouldn't cost toomuch as it would all be text...


    Actually the data is in binary format. A weeks worth of channel data is less
    than a few megabytes tho.




    "Howard" <> wrote in message
    news:pPITa.90438$...
    > > I doubt a non-Tivo service would be legal for several reasons, eg
    > > Tivo/SkyTV IP property/ownership rights...

    >
    > IP means three things Patent / TradeSecret / Copyright
    >
    > Patents - maybe they have one under a different name, and maybe they have
    > one pending, but at the moment TIVO* don't have any patents, according to
    > IPONZ.
    >
    > TradeSecret Doesn't apply if we reverse engieer it.
    >
    > Any Copyright wouldn't apply, as you can't copyright facts, e.g. the fact
    > that Star Trek airs at Xpm on Saturdays on Channel 4 can't be copyrighted.
    >
    > >deciding to produce an alternative to the Microsoft Xbox
    > > Online game service. Use your Xbox to play on our network...

    >
    > MS could only prevent sony doing this if it's a breech of the XBox eula.
    > Assuming the eula is silent on the topic, what is to stop anyone from

    doing
    > wxactly what you said? And if kiwis buy tivos on ebay, there ain't no eula
    > applicable.
    >
    > > Legal Tivo service in NZ will (presumably) only come from Tivo
    > > negotiating with SkyTV to supply Tivo's and use Sky's guide data to
    > > create a SkyTV Tivo service. I don't see this happening because it
    > > would reduce Sky's advertising revenue, there would be pressure from
    > > the TV networks not to, etc

    >
    > "pressure" an understatement surely. This service would have to be despite
    > the TV networks, not because of them. That is for certain.
    >
    > > Of course I could be wrong, I would love to see some kind of DVR
    > > technology available in NZ. Reckon even if sky did release it tho
    > > they would not include the 30 second skip feature..

    >
    > But anyway, you imply that the only thing stopping it is legal. What

    about
    > technical? IS the Tivo format open? If it was, what's to stop a group of
    > geeks putting up a service where the legal begals can't touch it?

    Bandwidth
    > wouldn't cost toomuch as it would all be text...
    >
    > -H
    >
    >
     
    tim, Jul 24, 2003
    #17
  18. tim

    Jay Guest

    Craig Sutton wrote:

    >
    > "Jay" <> wrote in message
    > news:bfno1c$h62pi$-berlin.de...
    >> Master Tech © wrote:
    >>
    >> >> Its crap! not even the americans have a 500 channel tv service. Also
    >> >> Foxtel would need another 3 satellites..
    >> >
    >> > Perhaps Australia could just again launch their own satellites to fix

    > this
    >> > ?? Like before.
    >> >
    >> > Oh hang, on, they can't.

    >>
    >> They already have launched the C1 satellite.
    >> Already Austar customers have switched from B3.
    >> And the older Pace STBs are being replaced.
    >> The transponder frequencies are unchanged.
    >> I think B3 will be decomissioned in Jan.
    >> Presumably this means that Sky NZ will also make the switch
    >> to Optus (Aust) C1 satellite?

    >
    > No why would they they are on Optus B1


    If that is correct then B1 is older than B3 so I wonder what
    will happen when it fails?

    The B1 was launched on 13/8/1992 and has a 10-year expected life.
    The B3 was launched on 27/8/1994 and has a 10-year expected life. Replaced.
     
    Jay, Jul 24, 2003
    #18
  19. tim

    Jay Guest

    Master Tech © wrote:

    >> Its crap! not even the americans have a 500 channel tv service. Also
    >> Foxtel would need another 3 satellites..

    >
    > Perhaps Australia could just again launch their own satellites to fix this
    > ?? Like before.
    >
    > Oh hang, on, they can't.


    I suppose that is why they are commonly called "Optus B1" or "Optus C1"
    satellites. Because Optus is an Australian company so therefore Optus
    never launched them so therefore they aren't Optus satellites.
    Or some other stupid bit of logic eminating from some stupid sheep shagger.
     
    Jay, Jul 24, 2003
    #19
  20. tim

    > I doubt a non-Tivo service would be legal for several reasons, eg Tivo/SkyTV
    > IP property/ownership rights...
    >
    > Imagine Sony deciding to produce an alternative to the Microsoft Xbox Online
    > game service. Use your Xbox to play on our network...
    >
    > Legal Tivo service in NZ will (presumably) only come from Tivo negotiating
    > with SkyTV to supply Tivo's and use Sky's guide data to create a SkyTV Tivo
    > service. I don't see this happening because it would reduce Sky's
    > advertising revenue, there would be pressure from the TV networks not to,
    > etc
    >
    > Of course I could be wrong, I would love to see some kind of DVR technology
    > available in NZ. Reckon even if sky did release it tho they would not
    > include the 30 second skip feature..


    Isnt the guide info transmitted in the clear however?

    If so then surely something to transcode it from a DVB data stream to xml would
    be no more illegal then something to print teletext pages?
     
    Richard Malcolm-Smith, Jul 24, 2003
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. buffy

    Calling any users of ASUS A7V8X-X

    buffy, Oct 17, 2003, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    6
    Views:
    843
    Harrison
    Oct 17, 2003
  2. Calling all spamjab users....

    , May 24, 2004, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    1,889
  3. adm

    Calling Mac Users....

    adm, Jan 6, 2005, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    26
    Views:
    704
  4. Nobody Nowhere

    calling Imacon Precision II users!

    Nobody Nowhere, Jan 15, 2005, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    464
    Nobody Nowhere
    Jan 15, 2005
  5. Arawak
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    1,471
Loading...

Share This Page