Call for Windows IE 7 Boycott...

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by Imhotep, Aug 3, 2005.

  1. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    Imhotep, Aug 3, 2005
    #1
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  2. Imhotep

    Winged Guest

    Imhotep wrote:
    > A little off topic but interesting (and the article came from a Windows
    > advocate too!)
    >
    > http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/02/1853256&from=rss
    >
    > -Im

    The link within the link isn't bad, but barely touches the issues. The
    MS focus on their ".NET" initiatives (which the other browsers will not
    support) and their continued focus on activeX controls in the Beta
    ensure their insecurity for eons to come.

    IE 7 isn't off topic. The web browser and e-mail are 2 of the most
    common ways to compromise a system.

    This document I found informative: Technical overview of IE 7
    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...3A-64FE-4A4C-9DDF-57AF0472EAD2&displaylang=en

    It is inexcusable that MS has not made progress in supporting CSS
    standards. More it appears that MS really doesn't care much about
    standards but plans on continuing down the proprietary road. .NET has
    many of the client security flaws of activeX, now these exploits can be
    done using more languages.

    The MSDN MS Blog on IE7 also provides insight:
    http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx

    Here is some comments and screen shots:
    http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2005/07/28/ie7_css_upda/
    http://www.clothedandy.com/Writings/IE 7 Beta 1/

    From what I have read, think I'll stick with Firefox. I haven't loaded
    the beta on a test machine yet, as I see nothing that makes me want to
    expend the effort. To me it is amazing that a company who brags on
    innovation has so little innovative in the IE product. If they spent a
    fraction of their time supporting the user instead of supporting the
    DCMA they would be on the right track. MS got its start by supporting
    open hardware standards. With Vista they are trying to close things to
    a proprietary platform. I am not impressed. I don't believe my
    interests are supported by the Vista platform nor the IE7 browser.
    Boycott, no, I plan on going other directions, boycott infers I plan to
    return.

    Winged
    Winged, Aug 3, 2005
    #2
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  3. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    Winged wrote:

    > Imhotep wrote:
    >> A little off topic but interesting (and the article came from a Windows
    >> advocate too!)
    >>
    >> http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/02/1853256&from=rss
    >>
    >> -Im

    > The link within the link isn't bad, but barely touches the issues. The
    > MS focus on their ".NET" initiatives (which the other browsers will not
    > support) and their continued focus on activeX controls in the Beta
    > ensure their insecurity for eons to come.
    >
    > IE 7 isn't off topic. The web browser and e-mail are 2 of the most
    > common ways to compromise a system.
    >
    > This document I found informative: Technical overview of IE 7
    >

    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...3A-64FE-4A4C-9DDF-57AF0472EAD2&displaylang=en
    >
    > It is inexcusable that MS has not made progress in supporting CSS
    > standards. More it appears that MS really doesn't care much about
    > standards but plans on continuing down the proprietary road. .NET has
    > many of the client security flaws of activeX, now these exploits can be
    > done using more languages.
    >
    > The MSDN MS Blog on IE7 also provides insight:
    > http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx
    >
    > Here is some comments and screen shots:
    > http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2005/07/28/ie7_css_upda/
    > http://www.clothedandy.com/Writings/IE 7 Beta 1/
    >
    > From what I have read, think I'll stick with Firefox. I haven't loaded
    > the beta on a test machine yet, as I see nothing that makes me want to
    > expend the effort. To me it is amazing that a company who brags on
    > innovation has so little innovative in the IE product. If they spent a
    > fraction of their time supporting the user instead of supporting the
    > DCMA they would be on the right track. MS got its start by supporting
    > open hardware standards. With Vista they are trying to close things to
    > a proprietary platform. I am not impressed. I don't believe my
    > interests are supported by the Vista platform nor the IE7 browser.
    > Boycott, no, I plan on going other directions, boycott infers I plan to
    > return.
    >
    > Winged



    Very well said....I could not agree more.

    Im
    Imhotep, Aug 3, 2005
    #3
  4. "Winged" <> wrote in message
    news:8c589$42f0b36a$18d6d91e$...
    > Imhotep wrote:
    > > A little off topic but interesting (and the article came from a Windows
    > > advocate too!)


    <snip>

    > It is inexcusable that MS has not made progress in supporting CSS
    > standards.


    <snip>

    > From what I have read, think I'll stick with Firefox.


    <snip>

    Yup. Plenty of scope there for increased support of CSS.. Firefox is much
    better than Nutscrape 4, but not nearly as much as it should be.

    Usual HTML development procedure: decide what to write (often an hour or
    two), format it for use in IE (a couple of minutes, on my home-grown content
    management system), then try and work our which bits of Firefox don't work,
    or have stopped working, and try and find workarounds (open ended, often
    days)

    Getting "center" to work properly would be a good start, as would agreeing
    that a pixel is a pixel (still both dodgy on 1.0.6). Haven't checked to see
    if they've got rid of the hard-coded container limit, though... I'll leave
    that for the next major update.

    Not that I'm criticising it as an alternative browser, just that it's far
    from complete in supporting standards. Both browsers have some pretty horrid
    limitations.

    --

    Hairy One Kenobi

    Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
    reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
    in the first place. So there!
    Hairy One Kenobi, Aug 5, 2005
    #4
  5. Imhotep

    Colin B. Guest

    Hairy One Kenobi <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
    >
    > Usual HTML development procedure: decide what to write (often an hour or
    > two), format it for use in IE (a couple of minutes, on my home-grown content
    > management system), then try and work our which bits of Firefox don't work,
    > or have stopped working, and try and find workarounds (open ended, often
    > days)


    Of course, the opposite would hold equally true.

    > Not that I'm criticising it as an alternative browser, just that it's far
    > from complete in supporting standards. Both browsers have some pretty horrid
    > limitations.


    This is true, although firefox is much closer to standards conformance than
    IE. More to the point, firefox developers consider not complying with an
    official standard to be a bug, and something that should be fixed (eventually).
    MS does not take this view with IE, and that anti-standards attitude is a
    good reason for a boycot.

    Colin
    Colin B., Aug 5, 2005
    #5
  6. "Colin B." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hairy One Kenobi <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
    > >
    > > Usual HTML development procedure: decide what to write (often an hour or
    > > two), format it for use in IE (a couple of minutes, on my home-grown

    content
    > > management system), then try and work our which bits of Firefox don't

    work,
    > > or have stopped working, and try and find workarounds (open ended, often
    > > days)

    >
    > Of course, the opposite would hold equally true.


    Granted. The problem is when something that has worked for ynks gets..
    "unfixed".

    Can't remember the exact details ('twas a while ago), but I think that it
    involved containers within containers. IIRC, Nutscrape had a hard-coded
    limit of four DIVs/SPANs/whatevers, Firefox fixed it, and then broke it in
    the next release...

    >
    > > Not that I'm criticising it as an alternative browser, just that it's

    far
    > > from complete in supporting standards. Both browsers have some pretty

    horrid
    > > limitations.

    >
    > This is true, although firefox is much closer to standards conformance

    than
    > IE. More to the point, firefox developers consider not complying with an
    > official standard to be a bug, and something that should be fixed

    (eventually).
    > MS does not take this view with IE, and that anti-standards attitude is a
    > good reason for a boycot.


    Well, they need to take a look at text-align:center. Been broke for as long
    as I've been using it. Come to think of it, I've had to use a lot of SPANs
    when I /really/ should have been using DIVs. Works in IE, but not in
    Firefox. My guess would be that IE got kludged to match Mozilla behaviour,
    in addition to the standards.

    http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/global.html#h-7.5.4 gives a good
    overview on how you really shouldn't be using SPANs as block elements... but
    FF CSS limitations mandate it.

    As I said, *both* browsers have some pretty horrid limitations.

    H1K
    Hairy One Kenobi, Aug 13, 2005
    #6
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