cable modem won't work without the router

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by datrooper@hotmail.com, May 28, 2005.

  1. Guest

    i have a d-link di-614+ router i've been using for a few years now,
    tonight, just to test something out, i unpluged the cable modem from
    the router so i could directly connect the cable modem to the computer,
    but when i did i got no connection at all, trying to load a webpage it
    would just sit at connecting to such and such site till it finally
    timed out.

    i repluged the modem into the router and everything works fine.why
    won't it work without the router though?
    , May 28, 2005
    #1
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  2. carson Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > i have a d-link di-614+ router i've been using for a few years now,
    > tonight, just to test something out, i unpluged the cable modem from
    > the router so i could directly connect the cable modem to the computer,
    > but when i did i got no connection at all, trying to load a webpage it
    > would just sit at connecting to such and such site till it finally
    > timed out.
    >
    > i repluged the modem into the router and everything works fine.why
    > won't it work without the router though?




    First try resterting your computer while pluged into the modem
    you may just need to aquire a new IP address
    Otherwise reconfigure your LAN card the same as
    the router
    (should be) automaticly aquire IP address and DNS server
    >
    carson, May 28, 2005
    #2
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  3. Duane ;-\) Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >i have a d-link di-614+ router i've been using for a few years now,
    > tonight, just to test something out, i unpluged the cable modem from
    > the router so i could directly connect the cable modem to the computer,
    > but when i did i got no connection at all, trying to load a webpage it
    > would just sit at connecting to such and such site till it finally
    > timed out.
    >
    > i repluged the modem into the router and everything works fine.why
    > won't it work without the router though?


    It could be that the ISP is using the first MAC past the modem provision
    method and has linked that MAC to your account along with the MAC of the
    modem. What that means is that all devices like a modem, router and the
    computer's Network Interface Card (NIC) have a unique MAC address. On the
    modem and router in the area of the serial number, you'll see the MAC. And
    if you go to the Command Prompt on the O/S and enter IPconfg /all, you'll
    see the NIC's MAC, otherwise, you would have to pull the NIC out of the
    machine to see the MAC.

    Anyway, the ISP knows about the MAC of the router, which is linked to your
    account and will allow the connection to their network. You then connected
    the computer with its NIC MAC to the modem that is not provisioned with the
    ISP and the computer cannot connect. If you got another modem, then the MAC
    of the modem has to be provisioned with the ISP and linked to your account,
    otherwise, the modem would not be able to connect to the ISP's network.

    Some ISP's allow for more than one MAC (in the case of multiple computer's
    using the account at the ISP) can be linked to the account and can access
    the ISP's network. In your case, that's not needed as you have the router
    and the ISP cannot come past the router to see the NIC MAC(s), it just sees
    the router's MAC and allows connections from machines behind the router.

    The bottom line is that you can have the router's MAC and the NIC MAC of a
    computer provisioned too just in case you need to do what you were trying to
    do.

    Some routers have a MAC cloning feature where you can take the MAC of a NIC
    the ISP has provisioned and enter it into the router's admin screen. And the
    router simulates the NIC's MAC and the connection is made without having to
    have the ISP provision the router's MAC.

    Duane :)
    Duane ;-\), May 28, 2005
    #3
  4. Mike Easter Guest

    wrote:
    > i repluged the modem into the router and everything works fine.why
    > won't it work without the router though?


    Did you power down the modem and computer and then power back up the
    modem, let it get itself established, and then power up the computer?
    If you didn't power down the modem, it will want to give the IP to the
    MAC of the router, not the computer.

    If you're just moving RJ-45 plugs around, it isn't going to work out.

    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, May 28, 2005
    #4
  5. Duane ;-\) Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    news:42984215$0$37872$...
    > wrote:
    >> i repluged the modem into the router and everything works fine.why
    >> won't it work without the router though?

    >
    > Did you power down the modem and computer and then power back up the
    > modem, let it get itself established, and then power up the computer?
    > If you didn't power down the modem, it will want to give the IP to the
    > MAC of the router, not the computer.
    >
    > If you're just moving RJ-45 plugs around, it isn't going to work out.


    What I did in this case was have the ISP leave the MAC(s) of Linksys
    wireless router that was converted to a switch, the MAC of the first
    computer that was originally connected to the ISP's network and now the
    WatchGuard FW appliance MAC provisioned to the account so I could swap the
    wire and connect either one of the devices to the modem and go. One of the
    methods I used to resolve the VPN issues when trying to connect to the job's
    VPN, even had the MAC of the job's laptop NIC MAC provisioned for a direct
    connect.

    Duane :)
    Duane ;-\), May 28, 2005
    #5
  6. Mike Easter Guest

    Duane ;-) wrote:
    > "Mike Easter"
    >> wrote:
    >>> i repluged the modem into the router and everything works fine.why
    >>> won't it work without the router though?

    >>
    >> Did you power down the modem and computer and then power back up the
    >> modem, let it get itself established, and then power up the computer?
    >> If you didn't power down the modem, it will want to give the IP to
    >> the MAC of the router, not the computer.
    >>
    >> If you're just moving RJ-45 plugs around, it isn't going to work out.

    >
    > What I did in this case was have the ISP leave the MAC(s) of Linksys
    > wireless router that was converted to a switch, the MAC of the first
    > computer that was originally connected to the ISP's network and now
    > the WatchGuard FW appliance MAC provisioned to the account so I could
    > swap the wire and connect either one of the devices to the modem and
    > go. One of the methods I used to resolve the VPN issues when trying
    > to connect to the job's VPN, even had the MAC of the job's laptop
    > NIC MAC provisioned for a direct connect.


    Yabbut, Duane, I wasn't talking about /you/. :) I was talking about
    the OP datrooper. I tho't maybe he couldn't get his computer to work
    straight to his modem when he took out the router because the modem
    never got powered down.

    You are very 'tricky' with your networking and firewalling skills. I
    read your stuff, posts and links, in comp.security.firewalls and try to
    learn.

    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, May 28, 2005
    #6
  7. Duane ;-\) Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    news:42984d2e$0$74096$...
    > Duane ;-) wrote:
    >> "Mike Easter"
    >>> wrote:
    >>>> i repluged the modem into the router and everything works fine.why
    >>>> won't it work without the router though?
    >>>
    >>> Did you power down the modem and computer and then power back up the
    >>> modem, let it get itself established, and then power up the computer?
    >>> If you didn't power down the modem, it will want to give the IP to
    >>> the MAC of the router, not the computer.
    >>>
    >>> If you're just moving RJ-45 plugs around, it isn't going to work out.

    >>
    >> What I did in this case was have the ISP leave the MAC(s) of Linksys
    >> wireless router that was converted to a switch, the MAC of the first
    >> computer that was originally connected to the ISP's network and now
    >> the WatchGuard FW appliance MAC provisioned to the account so I could
    >> swap the wire and connect either one of the devices to the modem and
    >> go. One of the methods I used to resolve the VPN issues when trying
    >> to connect to the job's VPN, even had the MAC of the job's laptop
    >> NIC MAC provisioned for a direct connect.

    >
    > Yabbut, Duane, I wasn't talking about /you/. :) I was talking about
    > the OP datrooper. I tho't maybe he couldn't get his computer to work
    > straight to his modem when he took out the router because the modem
    > never got powered down.


    I doubt that the power down thing on the fly is going to work but some BB
    ISP(s) may have that ability. My ISP doesn't have it and they are one of the
    state of the art ISP and they must be told about the MAC one way or the
    other. Some BB ISP(s) when a computer is being connected to their network
    and the MAC has not been provisioned will pop-up a screen asking whether or
    not you want to link that NIC's MAC to the account on the fly. If it didn't
    do that when the OP connected the computer to the modem, then I think the OP
    is going to have to call the ISP and inform them of the MAC. But either way,
    the ISP must know about the MAC

    Some ISP(s) only allow one device MAC past the modem to be provisioned but
    others allow more than one device MAC for an account for those who have a
    LAN without a router or FW appliance in play as the ISP can see past the
    gateway computer using ICS and see the MAC(s), at least mine could at the
    time.

    As for a router or a FW appliance and provisioning those MAC(s), one has to
    call the ISP -- no pop-up screens. Or in the case of a router you can clone
    a NIC MAC of a computer that has been provisioned into the router and
    simulate the MAC and not have to have the router's MAC provisioned with the
    ISP.

    > You are very 'tricky' with your networking and firewalling skills. I
    > read your stuff, posts and links, in comp.security.firewalls and try to
    > learn.


    I am still learning too. ;-)

    Duane :)
    Duane ;-\), May 28, 2005
    #7
  8. Mike Easter Guest

    Duane ;-) wrote:
    > I doubt that the power down thing on the fly is going to work but
    > some BB ISP(s) may have that ability. My ISP doesn't have it and they
    > are one of the state of the art ISP and they must be told about the
    > MAC one way or the other.


    My current cable modem is a Motorola SurfBoard SB4100 and TimeWarner is
    the cable infrastructure for whichever provider, RoadRunner, EarthLink,
    or AOL. I've used RR in the past, EL presently on the same modem and
    local fiber infrastructure. The 'account' is based on the cable modem's
    MAC; and I've had access to 2 IPs in the past when the provider was RR.
    So, that meant that when the cable modem was powered up, it was able to
    get 2 different IPs when I was subscribed to 2.

    I could have something as simple as a hub with 3 computers and 2 of them
    would be able to get different IPs from the modem and the 3rd not. In
    order to 'reconfigure' so that a different computer could get the IP, in
    that topology I would have to bring the computers up and onto the
    network with a freshly powered up cable modem 'in order'. So the cable
    modem was 'doling out' the IPs to the NICs of the computers until all
    the IPs were gone. That is a no connection sharing configuration.

    Having 2 different IPs is /great/ for troubleshooting certain kinds of
    problems.

    Later I changed to having one IP and a Linksys NAT for my LAN. But, for
    troubleshooting purposes, the cableco isn't 'supporting' the/my LAN. If
    I were to need to troubleshoot with TW for some kind of connectivity
    problem, I would have to troubleshoot with one computer hooked directly
    to the cable modem. In order to have that configuration, I would have
    to powerdown the cablemodem and the computer, power back up the cable
    modem so that it can get itself sorted out, and power up the computer.
    Then the cable modem would give the IP which it got to the MAC of the
    NIC of the computer instead of the Linksys.

    > Some BB ISP(s) when a computer is being
    > connected to their network and the MAC has not been provisioned will
    > pop-up a screen asking whether or not you want to link that NIC's MAC
    > to the account on the fly. If it didn't do that when the OP connected
    > the computer to the modem, then I think the OP is going to have to
    > call the ISP and inform them of the MAC. But either way, the ISP must
    > know about the MAC


    I haven't seen that.

    > Some ISP(s) only allow one device MAC past the modem to be
    > provisioned but others allow more than one device MAC for an account
    > for those who have a LAN without a router or FW appliance in play as
    > the ISP can see past the gateway computer using ICS and see the
    > MAC(s), at least mine could at the time.


    I don't think my cable provider cares about devices connected, they just
    don't want to support problems with the network. The cable, the modem,
    and the fiber are all TW and the bill comes from TW for EL [or RR] and
    TW is who supports the connectivity.

    > As for a router or a FW appliance and provisioning those MAC(s), one
    > has to call the ISP -- no pop-up screens. Or in the case of a router
    > you can clone a NIC MAC of a computer that has been provisioned into
    > the router and simulate the MAC and not have to have the router's MAC
    > provisioned with the ISP.


    That's not the way for me.

    --
    Mike Easter
    Mike Easter, May 28, 2005
    #8
  9. Duane ;-\) Guest

    "Mike Easter" <> wrote in message
    news:429860e7$0$74478$...
    > Duane ;-) wrote:
    >> I doubt that the power down thing on the fly is going to work but
    >> some BB ISP(s) may have that ability. My ISP doesn't have it and they
    >> are one of the state of the art ISP and they must be told about the
    >> MAC one way or the other.

    >
    > My current cable modem is a Motorola SurfBoard SB4100 and TimeWarner is
    > the cable infrastructure for whichever provider, RoadRunner, EarthLink,
    > or AOL. I've used RR in the past, EL presently on the same modem and
    > local fiber infrastructure. The 'account' is based on the cable modem's
    > MAC; and I've had access to 2 IPs in the past when the provider was RR.
    > So, that meant that when the cable modem was powered up, it was able to
    > get 2 different IPs when I was subscribed to 2.


    I almost got a SB4100 when my Linksys played out. But the Tech who came out
    and did the trouble shoot gave me a brand new RCA modem on the *house* for
    free and of course I took it. ;-) I think you can get more that one IP from
    Insightbb too, if you had a modem that worked multiple IP(s).
    >
    > I could have something as simple as a hub with 3 computers and 2 of them
    > would be able to get different IPs from the modem and the 3rd not. In
    > order to 'reconfigure' so that a different computer could get the IP, in
    > that topology I would have to bring the computers up and onto the
    > network with a freshly powered up cable modem 'in order'. So the cable
    > modem was 'doling out' the IPs to the NICs of the computers until all
    > the IPs were gone. That is a no connection sharing configuration.
    >
    > Having 2 different IPs is /great/ for troubleshooting certain kinds of
    > problems.


    I wouldn't doubt it.

    >
    > Later I changed to having one IP and a Linksys NAT for my LAN. But, for
    > troubleshooting purposes, the cableco isn't 'supporting' the/my LAN. If
    > I were to need to troubleshoot with TW for some kind of connectivity
    > problem, I would have to troubleshoot with one computer hooked directly
    > to the cable modem. In order to have that configuration, I would have
    > to powerdown the cablemodem and the computer, power back up the cable
    > modem so that it can get itself sorted out, and power up the computer.
    > Then the cable modem would give the IP which it got to the MAC of the
    > NIC of the computer instead of the Linksys.


    I wonder if that is just due to the abilities of the modem and in a way is
    acting like a router would do in hiding the MAC of the device connected to
    the modem.

    >
    >> Some BB ISP(s) when a computer is being
    >> connected to their network and the MAC has not been provisioned will
    >> pop-up a screen asking whether or not you want to link that NIC's MAC
    >> to the account on the fly. If it didn't do that when the OP connected
    >> the computer to the modem, then I think the OP is going to have to
    >> call the ISP and inform them of the MAC. But either way, the ISP must
    >> know about the MAC

    >
    > I haven't seen that.


    $5.00 a pop added to the account. I think the ISP has dropped the cost, but
    the MAC(s) have to be provisioned, at least they are not charging me for the
    multiple MAC(s) I have in play.

    >
    >> Some ISP(s) only allow one device MAC past the modem to be
    >> provisioned but others allow more than one device MAC for an account
    >> for those who have a LAN without a router or FW appliance in play as
    >> the ISP can see past the gateway computer using ICS and see the
    >> MAC(s), at least mine could at the time.

    >
    > I don't think my cable provider cares about devices connected, they just
    > don't want to support problems with the network. The cable, the modem,
    > and the fiber are all TW and the bill comes from TW for EL [or RR] and
    > TW is who supports the connectivity.


    Most BB ISP(s) will not support anything when a router or FW appliance is in
    play and one must support their setup.



    I still have to wonder if that SB4100 is in play here with the other MAC(s)
    past the modem. As I recall about the SB4100, it could kind of be configured
    to some kind of a router mode.



    Duane :)
    Duane ;-\), May 28, 2005
    #9
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