Building better malware

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Dave - Dave.net.nz, Dec 15, 2004.

  1. Am I the only one that thinks that if I had the coding skill and lack of
    ethics that I could make much "better" malware?

    There just seem to be so many design flaws in most of it.

    By malware Im meaning virus/trojan/adware/spambot stuff.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Dec 15, 2004
    #1
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  2. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    _.-._ Guest

    On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:01:58 +1300, Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:

    > Am I the only one that thinks that if I had the coding skill and lack of
    > ethics that I could make much "better" malware?
    >
    > There just seem to be so many design flaws in most of it.
    >
    > By malware Im meaning virus/trojan/adware/spambot stuff.


    Could it be that a lot of authors of this type of "software" are little
    more than script-kiddies, wannabees, anti-socials, or are just not up to
    scratch (and therefore don't have any *REAL* projects with which to devote
    their time)?
    _.-._, Dec 15, 2004
    #2
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  3. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    _.-._ Guest

    On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:01:58 +1300, Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:

    > Am I the only one that thinks that if I had the coding skill and lack of
    > ethics that I could make much "better" malware?
    >
    > There just seem to be so many design flaws in most of it.
    >
    > By malware Im meaning virus/trojan/adware/spambot stuff.


    Could it be that a lot of authors of this type of "software" are little
    more than script-kiddies, wannabees, anti-socials, or are just not up to
    scratch (and therefore don't have any *REAL* projects with which to devote
    their time)?
    _.-._, Dec 15, 2004
    #3
  4. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    Nik Coughin Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > Am I the only one that thinks that if I had the coding skill and lack
    > of ethics that I could make much "better" malware?
    >
    > There just seem to be so many design flaws in most of it.
    >
    > By malware Im meaning virus/trojan/adware/spambot stuff.


    The coolwwwsearch variants are pretty nasty. I would say whoever is behind
    that knows their stuff. But for the most part, yeah.
    Nik Coughin, Dec 16, 2004
    #4
  5. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    Nik Coughin Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > Am I the only one that thinks that if I had the coding skill and lack
    > of ethics that I could make much "better" malware?
    >
    > There just seem to be so many design flaws in most of it.
    >
    > By malware Im meaning virus/trojan/adware/spambot stuff.


    The coolwwwsearch variants are pretty nasty. I would say whoever is behind
    that knows their stuff. But for the most part, yeah.
    Nik Coughin, Dec 16, 2004
    #5
  6. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    Mr Bond Guest

    On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:07:20 +1300, "_.-._" <> wrote:

    >On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:01:58 +1300, Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    >
    >> Am I the only one that thinks that if I had the coding skill and lack of
    >> ethics that I could make much "better" malware?
    >>
    >> There just seem to be so many design flaws in most of it.
    >>
    >> By malware Im meaning virus/trojan/adware/spambot stuff.

    >
    >Could it be that a lot of authors of this type of "software" are little
    >more than script-kiddies, wannabees, anti-socials, or are just not up to
    >scratch (and therefore don't have any *REAL* projects with which to devote
    >their time)?


    Every now and then one of them comes out with a 'nice feature'. I did
    smile at the virus reported today on CNN, link below, that changed its
    email subject depending on the domain extension of the stolen email
    address. ie .co.nz would get 'Merry Christmas' where as a .de address
    would get a german subject line.

    Quite cunning. Timing is pretty good too.

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/12/15/holiday.worm/index.html

    I suppose the conspiracy theorists would put it down to the AV
    companies wanting to ensure there is a steady stream of simple to
    detect virus's to maintain the need for their software.
    Mr Bond, Dec 16, 2004
    #6
  7. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    Mr Bond Guest

    On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:07:20 +1300, "_.-._" <> wrote:

    >On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:01:58 +1300, Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    >
    >> Am I the only one that thinks that if I had the coding skill and lack of
    >> ethics that I could make much "better" malware?
    >>
    >> There just seem to be so many design flaws in most of it.
    >>
    >> By malware Im meaning virus/trojan/adware/spambot stuff.

    >
    >Could it be that a lot of authors of this type of "software" are little
    >more than script-kiddies, wannabees, anti-socials, or are just not up to
    >scratch (and therefore don't have any *REAL* projects with which to devote
    >their time)?


    Every now and then one of them comes out with a 'nice feature'. I did
    smile at the virus reported today on CNN, link below, that changed its
    email subject depending on the domain extension of the stolen email
    address. ie .co.nz would get 'Merry Christmas' where as a .de address
    would get a german subject line.

    Quite cunning. Timing is pretty good too.

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/12/15/holiday.worm/index.html

    I suppose the conspiracy theorists would put it down to the AV
    companies wanting to ensure there is a steady stream of simple to
    detect virus's to maintain the need for their software.
    Mr Bond, Dec 16, 2004
    #7
  8. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    C9H8O4 Guest

    "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Am I the only one that thinks that if I had the coding skill and lack of
    > ethics that I could make much "better" malware?
    >
    > There just seem to be so many design flaws in most of it.
    >
    > By malware Im meaning virus/trojan/adware/spambot stuff.


    The way I see it, the clever malware authors are the ones whose work you
    never notice. To put it another way, the poorly-written stuff is very
    obvious and the "good" stuff isn't so you might be overestimating the impact
    and quantity of the former and underestimating the latter.
    C9H8O4, Dec 16, 2004
    #8
  9. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    C9H8O4 Guest

    "Dave - Dave.net.nz" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Am I the only one that thinks that if I had the coding skill and lack of
    > ethics that I could make much "better" malware?
    >
    > There just seem to be so many design flaws in most of it.
    >
    > By malware Im meaning virus/trojan/adware/spambot stuff.


    The way I see it, the clever malware authors are the ones whose work you
    never notice. To put it another way, the poorly-written stuff is very
    obvious and the "good" stuff isn't so you might be overestimating the impact
    and quantity of the former and underestimating the latter.
    C9H8O4, Dec 16, 2004
    #9
  10. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    thing Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > Am I the only one that thinks that if I had the coding skill and lack of
    > ethics that I could make much "better" malware?
    >
    > There just seem to be so many design flaws in most of it.
    >
    > By malware Im meaning virus/trojan/adware/spambot stuff.


    pre 2003 I would have said the common stuff was written by script
    kiddies and mal contents, those looking to ether make a name for
    themselves or those trying things out.

    After 2003 the Russian Mafia etc realised there was a whole heap of $ to
    be made from creating armies of spam drones, phishing emails and getting
    key loggers onto ppls PCs. 80% of spam is now apparantly from spam
    drones. The last month I monitored spam from drones (october) coming in
    I stopped just short of 300,000 attempted connections from these things,
    and that is what I stopped let alone what I missed.

    regards

    Thing
    thing, Dec 16, 2004
    #10
  11. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    thing Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > Am I the only one that thinks that if I had the coding skill and lack of
    > ethics that I could make much "better" malware?
    >
    > There just seem to be so many design flaws in most of it.
    >
    > By malware Im meaning virus/trojan/adware/spambot stuff.


    pre 2003 I would have said the common stuff was written by script
    kiddies and mal contents, those looking to ether make a name for
    themselves or those trying things out.

    After 2003 the Russian Mafia etc realised there was a whole heap of $ to
    be made from creating armies of spam drones, phishing emails and getting
    key loggers onto ppls PCs. 80% of spam is now apparantly from spam
    drones. The last month I monitored spam from drones (october) coming in
    I stopped just short of 300,000 attempted connections from these things,
    and that is what I stopped let alone what I missed.

    regards

    Thing
    thing, Dec 16, 2004
    #11
  12. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    C9H8O4 Guest

    "thing" <> wrote in message news:41c122ad$...
    > Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    >> Am I the only one that thinks that if I had the coding skill and lack of
    >> ethics that I could make much "better" malware?
    >>
    >> There just seem to be so many design flaws in most of it.
    >>
    >> By malware Im meaning virus/trojan/adware/spambot stuff.

    >
    > pre 2003 I would have said the common stuff was written by script kiddies
    > and mal contents, those looking to ether make a name for themselves or
    > those trying things out.
    >
    > After 2003 the Russian Mafia etc realised there was a whole heap of $ to
    > be made from creating armies of spam drones, phishing emails and getting
    > key loggers onto ppls PCs. 80% of spam is now apparantly from spam drones.
    > The last month I monitored spam from drones (october) coming in I stopped
    > just short of 300,000 attempted connections from these things, and that is
    > what I stopped let alone what I missed.
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing
    >


    Hi Thing,
    I don't always agree with your comments but this time you've nailed it. The
    market dynamic has changed over the last 12 months or so from being one
    driven by script kiddies fscking around to one where organised crime
    recognises the $ involved (as they always do where there is money to be made
    from unsuspecting people) and have reacted accordingly.
    C9H8O4, Dec 16, 2004
    #12
  13. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    C9H8O4 Guest

    "thing" <> wrote in message news:41c122ad$...
    > Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    >> Am I the only one that thinks that if I had the coding skill and lack of
    >> ethics that I could make much "better" malware?
    >>
    >> There just seem to be so many design flaws in most of it.
    >>
    >> By malware Im meaning virus/trojan/adware/spambot stuff.

    >
    > pre 2003 I would have said the common stuff was written by script kiddies
    > and mal contents, those looking to ether make a name for themselves or
    > those trying things out.
    >
    > After 2003 the Russian Mafia etc realised there was a whole heap of $ to
    > be made from creating armies of spam drones, phishing emails and getting
    > key loggers onto ppls PCs. 80% of spam is now apparantly from spam drones.
    > The last month I monitored spam from drones (october) coming in I stopped
    > just short of 300,000 attempted connections from these things, and that is
    > what I stopped let alone what I missed.
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing
    >


    Hi Thing,
    I don't always agree with your comments but this time you've nailed it. The
    market dynamic has changed over the last 12 months or so from being one
    driven by script kiddies fscking around to one where organised crime
    recognises the $ involved (as they always do where there is money to be made
    from unsuspecting people) and have reacted accordingly.
    C9H8O4, Dec 16, 2004
    #13
  14. C9H8O4 wrote:
    >>After 2003 the Russian Mafia etc realised there was a whole heap of $ to
    >>be made from creating armies of spam drones, phishing emails and getting
    >>key loggers onto ppls PCs. 80% of spam is now apparantly from spam drones.
    >>The last month I monitored spam from drones (october) coming in I stopped
    >>just short of 300,000 attempted connections from these things, and that is
    >>what I stopped let alone what I missed.


    > I don't always agree with your comments but this time you've nailed it. The
    > market dynamic has changed over the last 12 months or so from being one
    > driven by script kiddies fscking around to one where organised crime
    > recognises the $ involved (as they always do where there is money to be made
    > from unsuspecting people) and have reacted accordingly.


    I wonder if they(the organised crime fullas) have bitten off more than
    they can chew... I mean they used to just **** off a small amount of the
    people in the world... now they're fucking off a lot of people... should
    be interesting to see who eventually wins this "turf war"... the geeks,
    or the crime lords.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Dec 16, 2004
    #14
  15. C9H8O4 wrote:
    >>After 2003 the Russian Mafia etc realised there was a whole heap of $ to
    >>be made from creating armies of spam drones, phishing emails and getting
    >>key loggers onto ppls PCs. 80% of spam is now apparantly from spam drones.
    >>The last month I monitored spam from drones (october) coming in I stopped
    >>just short of 300,000 attempted connections from these things, and that is
    >>what I stopped let alone what I missed.


    > I don't always agree with your comments but this time you've nailed it. The
    > market dynamic has changed over the last 12 months or so from being one
    > driven by script kiddies fscking around to one where organised crime
    > recognises the $ involved (as they always do where there is money to be made
    > from unsuspecting people) and have reacted accordingly.


    I wonder if they(the organised crime fullas) have bitten off more than
    they can chew... I mean they used to just **** off a small amount of the
    people in the world... now they're fucking off a lot of people... should
    be interesting to see who eventually wins this "turf war"... the geeks,
    or the crime lords.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Dec 16, 2004
    #15
  16. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    David Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > C9H8O4 wrote:
    >
    >>> After 2003 the Russian Mafia etc realised there was a whole heap of $
    >>> to be made from creating armies of spam drones, phishing emails and
    >>> getting key loggers onto ppls PCs. 80% of spam is now apparantly from
    >>> spam drones. The last month I monitored spam from drones (october)
    >>> coming in I stopped just short of 300,000 attempted connections from
    >>> these things, and that is what I stopped let alone what I missed.

    >
    >
    >> I don't always agree with your comments but this time you've nailed
    >> it. The market dynamic has changed over the last 12 months or so from
    >> being one driven by script kiddies fscking around to one where
    >> organised crime recognises the $ involved (as they always do where
    >> there is money to be made from unsuspecting people) and have reacted
    >> accordingly.

    >
    >
    > I wonder if they(the organised crime fullas) have bitten off more than
    > they can chew... I mean they used to just **** off a small amount of the
    > people in the world... now they're fucking off a lot of people... should
    > be interesting to see who eventually wins this "turf war"... the geeks,
    > or the crime lords.


    What have they got to loose, they get away with murder and selling
    drugs, surely internet scams etc are a lot safer for them?
    David, Dec 16, 2004
    #16
  17. Dave - Dave.net.nz

    David Guest

    Dave - Dave.net.nz wrote:
    > C9H8O4 wrote:
    >
    >>> After 2003 the Russian Mafia etc realised there was a whole heap of $
    >>> to be made from creating armies of spam drones, phishing emails and
    >>> getting key loggers onto ppls PCs. 80% of spam is now apparantly from
    >>> spam drones. The last month I monitored spam from drones (october)
    >>> coming in I stopped just short of 300,000 attempted connections from
    >>> these things, and that is what I stopped let alone what I missed.

    >
    >
    >> I don't always agree with your comments but this time you've nailed
    >> it. The market dynamic has changed over the last 12 months or so from
    >> being one driven by script kiddies fscking around to one where
    >> organised crime recognises the $ involved (as they always do where
    >> there is money to be made from unsuspecting people) and have reacted
    >> accordingly.

    >
    >
    > I wonder if they(the organised crime fullas) have bitten off more than
    > they can chew... I mean they used to just **** off a small amount of the
    > people in the world... now they're fucking off a lot of people... should
    > be interesting to see who eventually wins this "turf war"... the geeks,
    > or the crime lords.


    What have they got to loose, they get away with murder and selling
    drugs, surely internet scams etc are a lot safer for them?
    David, Dec 16, 2004
    #17
  18. David wrote:
    >> I wonder if they(the organised crime fullas) have bitten off more than
    >> they can chew... I mean they used to just **** off a small amount of
    >> the people in the world... now they're fucking off a lot of people...
    >> should be interesting to see who eventually wins this "turf war"...
    >> the geeks, or the crime lords.


    > What have they got to loose, they get away with murder and selling
    > drugs, surely internet scams etc are a lot safer for them?


    but they are annoying a larger crowd, making a bigger noise so to
    speak... might make them easier to catch.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Dec 16, 2004
    #18
  19. David wrote:
    >> I wonder if they(the organised crime fullas) have bitten off more than
    >> they can chew... I mean they used to just **** off a small amount of
    >> the people in the world... now they're fucking off a lot of people...
    >> should be interesting to see who eventually wins this "turf war"...
    >> the geeks, or the crime lords.


    > What have they got to loose, they get away with murder and selling
    > drugs, surely internet scams etc are a lot safer for them?


    but they are annoying a larger crowd, making a bigger noise so to
    speak... might make them easier to catch.
    Dave - Dave.net.nz, Dec 16, 2004
    #19
  20. In article <>,
    Mr Bond <> wrote:

    >I suppose the conspiracy theorists would put it down to the AV
    >companies wanting to ensure there is a steady stream of simple to
    >detect virus's to maintain the need for their software.


    "Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by
    stupidity." There are already so many viruses out there, and new ones
    appearing essentially every few minutes, that there's no need for the
    antivirus companies to invent any more. In fact, it would be
    counterproductive.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Dec 16, 2004
    #20
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