Broadband spend-up unnecessary?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. So, the Big Three have commissioned a report
    <http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10557900>
    saying the Government's planned broadband investment isn't needed, customers
    won't pay for it, there aren't any upcoming applications that will take
    advantage of it.

    So who's right: Private Enterprise or the Government?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Feb 22, 2009
    #1
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  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > So, the Big Three have commissioned a report
    > <http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10557900>
    > saying the Government's planned broadband investment isn't needed, customers
    > won't pay for it, there aren't any upcoming applications that will take
    > advantage of it.
    >
    > So who's right: Private Enterprise or the Government?
    >

    In this case, private enterprise, I think.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
    Enkidu, Feb 22, 2009
    #2
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  3. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Squiggle Guest

    Enkidu threw some characters down the intarwebs:
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> So, the Big Three have commissioned a report
    >> <http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10557900>
    >> saying the Government's planned broadband investment isn't needed,
    >> customers won't pay for it, there aren't any upcoming applications
    >> that will take advantage of it.
    >>
    >> So who's right: Private Enterprise or the Government?
    >>

    > In this case, private enterprise, I think.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff
    >

    If the price for international data doesn't drop significantly, and
    national traffic is still charged at the same rate as international data
    as it currently is with most DSL connections then I'd agree, it a waste
    of money. If they separate national data and charge it at a low/zero
    rate, or if the data caps are tripled (or more) for the same price then
    maybe, just maybe it will a worthwhile spend up.

    No point having a Ferrari if you only get a litre of gas a month :)
    Squiggle, Feb 22, 2009
    #3
  4. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Your Name Guest

    "Allistar" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Enkidu wrote:
    >
    > > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > >> So, the Big Three have commissioned a report
    > >>

    >

    <http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=1055790
    0>
    > >> saying the Government's planned broadband investment isn't needed,
    > >> customers won't pay for it, there aren't any upcoming applications that
    > >> will take advantage of it.
    > >>
    > >> So who's right: Private Enterprise or the Government?
    > >>

    > > In this case, private enterprise, I think.

    >
    > Agreed. Personally I don't think broadband is anything to do with the
    > government, and I definitely don't think they should be subsiding it.


    Subsidising it?!? Hell, the Government should still OWN it.

    Letting greedy big business run necessary public services like electricty,
    phone lines, water pipes, "public" transport, etc. results in the attrocious
    fourth-world mess we're already in with the likes of Telescum NZ and the
    electricity companies where bugger all money being put back into keeping the
    system running and up-to-date because they're too busy stuffing their own
    pockets. x-(
    Your Name, Feb 23, 2009
    #4
  5. In article <49a1b51d$>, Enkidu <> wrote:
    >Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> So, the Big Three have commissioned a report
    >>

    > <http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10557900>
    >
    >> saying the Government's planned broadband investment isn't needed, customers
    >> won't pay for it, there aren't any upcoming applications that will take
    >> advantage of it.
    >>
    >> So who's right: Private Enterprise or the Government?
    >>

    >In this case, private enterprise, I think.


    ... doesn't sound likely when you type it like that, does it ? :)

    Isn't it rather like roads ? ... if you build it they will come ?
    Bruce Sinclair, Feb 23, 2009
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    EMB Guest

    Allistar wrote:
    > Enkidu wrote:
    >
    >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>> So, the Big Three have commissioned a report
    >>>

    > <http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10557900>
    >>> saying the Government's planned broadband investment isn't needed,
    >>> customers won't pay for it, there aren't any upcoming applications that
    >>> will take advantage of it.
    >>>
    >>> So who's right: Private Enterprise or the Government?
    >>>

    >> In this case, private enterprise, I think.

    >
    > Agreed. Personally I don't think broadband is anything to do with the
    > government, and I definitely don't think they should be subsiding it.


    However a replacement local loop that happens to be data capable is a
    completely different kettle of fish and is how this undertaking should
    be viewed.
    EMB, Feb 23, 2009
    #6
  7. On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:22:14 GMT,
    z (Bruce Sinclair)
    wrote:

    >In article <49a1b51d$>, Enkidu <> wrote:
    >>Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>> So, the Big Three have commissioned a report
    >>>

    >> <http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10557900>
    >>
    >>> saying the Government's planned broadband investment isn't needed, customers
    >>> won't pay for it, there aren't any upcoming applications that will take
    >>> advantage of it.
    >>>
    >>> So who's right: Private Enterprise or the Government?
    >>>

    >>In this case, private enterprise, I think.

    >
    >.. doesn't sound likely when you type it like that, does it ? :)
    >
    >Isn't it rather like roads ? ... if you build it they will come ?


    I would certainly come if they would build it. Sadly, they don't seem
    interested in building anything out here unless you have lots of money
    - TelstraClear has been laying fibre along the road for the past few
    weeks, I presume going to Livestock Improvement Corporation further
    along the road. Doesnt help me at all though - I've been talking to
    TelstraClear for the past month and the final answer is broadband isnt
    available here. The same response I got four years ago.

    I live two (2) kilometers down the road from Waikato University.
    During the summer my dialup connection can go as fast as 48k when the
    lines aren't full of water - in the winter things are at times not so
    good. I can't get ADSL because the distance to the exchange is too
    great and there are something like three loading coils on it. There
    are trees blocking wireless connections to a friends house in
    Hillcrest and a hill blocking wireless internet. Cellphone reception
    (especially vodafone) is poor and, like satellite, it is too
    expensive.
    David Goodwin, Feb 24, 2009
    #7
  8. In article <>, (David Goodwin) wrote:
    >On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:22:14 GMT,
    > (Bruce Sinclair)
    >wrote:


    >>In article <49a1b51d$>, Enkidu

    > <> wrote:
    >>>Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>> So, the Big Three have commissioned a report

    > <http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10557900>
    >>>
    >>>> saying the Government's planned broadband investment isn't needed,

    > customers
    >>>> won't pay for it, there aren't any upcoming applications that will take
    >>>> advantage of it.
    >>>>
    >>>> So who's right: Private Enterprise or the Government?
    >>>>
    >>>In this case, private enterprise, I think.

    >>
    >>.. doesn't sound likely when you type it like that, does it ? :)
    >>Isn't it rather like roads ? ... if you build it they will come ?

    >
    >I would certainly come if they would build it. Sadly, they don't seem
    >interested in building anything out here unless you have lots of money
    >- TelstraClear has been laying fibre along the road for the past few
    >weeks, I presume going to Livestock Improvement Corporation further
    >along the road. Doesnt help me at all though - I've been talking to
    >TelstraClear for the past month and the final answer is broadband isnt
    >available here. The same response I got four years ago.


    Hmmm ... now I bethink me ... I do seem to remember someone laying fiber
    along side the desert road a year or so ago. I also recall that it was being
    paid for by someone independently wealthy ... though that could have ben
    wishful thinking. :) Anyone have any info about that ??

    Telecom took months to install a broadband capable repeater box opposite our
    (rural) house. More interestingly, thjey took a year and a half to tell us
    they had ... their marketing usually leads their supply IME> :)

    >I live two (2) kilometers down the road from Waikato University.
    >During the summer my dialup connection can go as fast as 48k when the
    >lines aren't full of water - in the winter things are at times not so
    >good. I can't get ADSL because the distance to the exchange is too
    >great and there are something like three loading coils on it. There
    >are trees blocking wireless connections to a friends house in
    >Hillcrest and a hill blocking wireless internet. Cellphone reception
    >(especially vodafone) is poor and, like satellite, it is too
    >expensive.


    Repeater boxes are available and can be installed (see above). Why not get
    together with a few neighbours and ask for one ... over and over ? :)
    Bruce Sinclair, Feb 24, 2009
    #8
  9. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Your Name Guest

    "David Goodwin" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:22:14 GMT,
    > z (Bruce Sinclair)
    > wrote:
    >
    > >In article <49a1b51d$>, Enkidu

    <> wrote:
    > >>Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > >>> So, the Big Three have commissioned a report
    > >>>
    > >>

    <http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=1055790
    0>
    > >>
    > >>> saying the Government's planned broadband investment isn't needed,

    customers
    > >>> won't pay for it, there aren't any upcoming applications that will

    take
    > >>> advantage of it.
    > >>>
    > >>> So who's right: Private Enterprise or the Government?
    > >>>
    > >>In this case, private enterprise, I think.

    > >
    > >.. doesn't sound likely when you type it like that, does it ? :)
    > >
    > >Isn't it rather like roads ? ... if you build it they will come ?

    >
    > I would certainly come if they would build it. Sadly, they don't seem
    > interested in building anything out here unless you have lots of money
    > - TelstraClear has been laying fibre along the road for the past few
    > weeks, I presume going to Livestock Improvement Corporation further
    > along the road. Doesnt help me at all though - I've been talking to
    > TelstraClear for the past month and the final answer is broadband isnt
    > available here. The same response I got four years ago.
    >
    > I live two (2) kilometers down the road from Waikato University.
    > During the summer my dialup connection can go as fast as 48k when the
    > lines aren't full of water - in the winter things are at times not so
    > good. I can't get ADSL because the distance to the exchange is too
    > great and there are something like three loading coils on it. There
    > are trees blocking wireless connections to a friends house in
    > Hillcrest and a hill blocking wireless internet. Cellphone reception
    > (especially vodafone) is poor and, like satellite, it is too
    > expensive.


    My brother lives in a subdivision that was built only a couple of years ago
    in Albany (one of the fastest growing areas of Auckland), and yet they can't
    get broadband there at all because Telescum haven't bothered to install the
    necessary boxes. Instead he has to use a Vodafone mobile connection. :-\
    Your Name, Feb 24, 2009
    #9
  10. In message <>, Allistar wrote:

    > Surely replacing the local loop should be up to private companies that
    > make a profit off that local loop?


    Think of the local loop as being like the street outside your house. Is that
    something that private enterprise could build and run?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Feb 24, 2009
    #10
  11. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Your Name Guest

    "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    news:go01jj$i0r$...
    > In message <>, Allistar

    wrote:
    >
    > > Surely replacing the local loop should be up to private companies that
    > > make a profit off that local loop?

    >
    > Think of the local loop as being like the street outside your house. Is

    that
    > something that private enterprise could build and run?


    Yep, definitely ... if you want it to leak and fall over every time there's
    a slight breeze. ;-)
    Your Name, Feb 24, 2009
    #11
  12. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Squiggle Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro threw some characters down the intarwebs:
    > In message <>, Allistar wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Surely replacing the local loop should be up to private companies that
    >> make a profit off that local loop?
    >>

    >
    > Think of the local loop as being like the street outside your house. Is that
    > something that private enterprise could build and run?
    >
    >

    Of course they could, plenty of contractors out there to lay cable and
    terminate it. Network engineers aren't impossible to hire either.

    The real question is how deep would the gouging go if private enterprise
    had an unrestrained hand and ownership of the local loop. The anwer:
    look at TelMex's record.

    "Although Telmex is now a private company it stills remains as a
    quasi-monopoly. There are few other telephone companies in Mexico,
    Alestra (formerly AT&T <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T>), Axtel
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axtel>, Maxcom
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Maxcom&action=edit&redlink=1>,
    Megacable <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megacable> and Cablecom
    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cablecom>. Telmex is the 2nd most
    complained-about provider in PROFECO <http://www.profeco.gob.mx>
    (Mexico's Consumer Commission)."
    Squiggle, Feb 24, 2009
    #12
  13. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    oneofus Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <>, Allistar wrote:
    >
    >> Surely replacing the local loop should be up to private companies that
    >> make a profit off that local loop?

    >
    > Think of the local loop as being like the street outside your house. Is that
    > something that private enterprise could build and run?
    >


    Think of it as being like the TelstraClear local loop outside my house.
    oneofus, Feb 24, 2009
    #13
  14. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    David Goodwin wrote:
    > On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:22:14 GMT,
    > z (Bruce Sinclair)
    > wrote:
    >
    >> In article <49a1b51d$>, Enkidu <> wrote:
    >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>> So, the Big Three have commissioned a report
    >>>>
    >>> <http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10557900>
    >>>
    >>>> saying the Government's planned broadband investment isn't needed, customers
    >>>> won't pay for it, there aren't any upcoming applications that will take
    >>>> advantage of it.
    >>>>
    >>>> So who's right: Private Enterprise or the Government?
    >>>>
    >>> In this case, private enterprise, I think.

    >> .. doesn't sound likely when you type it like that, does it ? :)
    >>
    >> Isn't it rather like roads ? ... if you build it they will come ?

    >
    > I would certainly come if they would build it. Sadly, they don't seem
    > interested in building anything out here unless you have lots of money
    > - TelstraClear has been laying fibre along the road for the past few
    > weeks, I presume going to Livestock Improvement Corporation further
    > along the road. Doesnt help me at all though - I've been talking to
    > TelstraClear for the past month and the final answer is broadband isnt
    > available here. The same response I got four years ago.
    >
    > I live two (2) kilometers down the road from Waikato University.
    > During the summer my dialup connection can go as fast as 48k when the
    > lines aren't full of water - in the winter things are at times not so
    > good. I can't get ADSL because the distance to the exchange is too
    > great and there are something like three loading coils on it. There
    > are trees blocking wireless connections to a friends house in
    > Hillcrest and a hill blocking wireless internet. Cellphone reception
    > (especially vodafone) is poor and, like satellite, it is too
    > expensive.
    >

    Hills? I used to visit LIC on a fairly regular basis and driving in from
    the airport past Waikato I don't recall anything that a Wellingtonian
    would consider a 'hill'! <grin>

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
    Enkidu, Feb 24, 2009
    #14
  15. On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 05:23:20 GMT,
    z (Bruce Sinclair)
    wrote:

    >In article <>, (David Goodwin) wrote:
    >>On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:22:14 GMT,
    >> (Bruce Sinclair)
    >>wrote:

    >
    >>>In article <49a1b51d$>, Enkidu

    >> <> wrote:
    >>>>Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>>> So, the Big Three have commissioned a report

    >> <http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10557900>
    >>>>
    >>>>> saying the Government's planned broadband investment isn't needed,

    >> customers
    >>>>> won't pay for it, there aren't any upcoming applications that will take
    >>>>> advantage of it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So who's right: Private Enterprise or the Government?
    >>>>>
    >>>>In this case, private enterprise, I think.
    >>>
    >>>.. doesn't sound likely when you type it like that, does it ? :)
    >>>Isn't it rather like roads ? ... if you build it they will come ?

    >>
    >>I would certainly come if they would build it. Sadly, they don't seem
    >>interested in building anything out here unless you have lots of money
    >>- TelstraClear has been laying fibre along the road for the past few
    >>weeks, I presume going to Livestock Improvement Corporation further
    >>along the road. Doesnt help me at all though - I've been talking to
    >>TelstraClear for the past month and the final answer is broadband isnt
    >>available here. The same response I got four years ago.

    >
    >Hmmm ... now I bethink me ... I do seem to remember someone laying fiber
    >along side the desert road a year or so ago. I also recall that it was being
    >paid for by someone independently wealthy ... though that could have ben
    >wishful thinking. :) Anyone have any info about that ??
    >
    >Telecom took months to install a broadband capable repeater box opposite our
    >(rural) house. More interestingly, thjey took a year and a half to tell us
    >they had ... their marketing usually leads their supply IME> :)
    >
    >>I live two (2) kilometers down the road from Waikato University.
    >>During the summer my dialup connection can go as fast as 48k when the
    >>lines aren't full of water - in the winter things are at times not so
    >>good. I can't get ADSL because the distance to the exchange is too
    >>great and there are something like three loading coils on it. There
    >>are trees blocking wireless connections to a friends house in
    >>Hillcrest and a hill blocking wireless internet. Cellphone reception
    >>(especially vodafone) is poor and, like satellite, it is too
    >>expensive.

    >
    >Repeater boxes are available and can be installed (see above). Why not get
    >together with a few neighbours and ask for one ... over and over ? :)


    TelstraClear, who provides the phone and internet, has fibre running
    past the gate and I think Telecom does too. Im sure one of them can
    install a box - its just going to take a whole lot of complaining :)

    As ADSL is the only option that could be made possible, I guess this
    week is time to start talking to Telecom.
    David Goodwin, Feb 24, 2009
    #15
  16. On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:02:49 +1300, Enkidu <>
    wrote:

    >David Goodwin wrote:
    >> On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:22:14 GMT,
    >> z (Bruce Sinclair)
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article <49a1b51d$>, Enkidu <> wrote:
    >>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>>> So, the Big Three have commissioned a report
    >>>>>
    >>>> <http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10557900>
    >>>>
    >>>>> saying the Government's planned broadband investment isn't needed, customers
    >>>>> won't pay for it, there aren't any upcoming applications that will take
    >>>>> advantage of it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> So who's right: Private Enterprise or the Government?
    >>>>>
    >>>> In this case, private enterprise, I think.
    >>> .. doesn't sound likely when you type it like that, does it ? :)
    >>>
    >>> Isn't it rather like roads ? ... if you build it they will come ?

    >>
    >> I would certainly come if they would build it. Sadly, they don't seem
    >> interested in building anything out here unless you have lots of money
    >> - TelstraClear has been laying fibre along the road for the past few
    >> weeks, I presume going to Livestock Improvement Corporation further
    >> along the road. Doesnt help me at all though - I've been talking to
    >> TelstraClear for the past month and the final answer is broadband isnt
    >> available here. The same response I got four years ago.
    >>
    >> I live two (2) kilometers down the road from Waikato University.
    >> During the summer my dialup connection can go as fast as 48k when the
    >> lines aren't full of water - in the winter things are at times not so
    >> good. I can't get ADSL because the distance to the exchange is too
    >> great and there are something like three loading coils on it. There
    >> are trees blocking wireless connections to a friends house in
    >> Hillcrest and a hill blocking wireless internet. Cellphone reception
    >> (especially vodafone) is poor and, like satellite, it is too
    >> expensive.
    > >

    >Hills? I used to visit LIC on a fairly regular basis and driving in from
    >the airport past Waikato I don't recall anything that a Wellingtonian
    >would consider a 'hill'! <grin>


    Last time I checked out wireless, line of sight to the hospital was
    needed and supposedly Hillcrest gets in the way of that. The hospital
    is visible from the university but certainly not here - I can see the
    university though. All I need to do is sneak a repeater onto the
    library roof...

    If it wasnt for all the trees around here (I've read they arent good)
    I would attempt to link my network to a friends using 802.11g - I
    currently have two 24db parabolic dishes sitting in storage awaiting a
    use.
    David Goodwin, Feb 24, 2009
    #16
  17. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    EMB Guest

    David Goodwin wrote:
    >
    > As ADSL is the only option that could be made possible, I guess this
    > week is time to start talking to Telecom.


    Have a look at the below link (Chorus timeline) and see if your area is
    already programmed for cabinetisation and loop shortening.

    http://tinyurl.com/dslupgrade
    EMB, Feb 24, 2009
    #17
  18. In message <>, Allistar wrote:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In message <>, Allistar
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Surely replacing the local loop should be up to private companies that
    >>> make a profit off that local loop?

    >>
    >> Think of the local loop as being like the street outside your house.

    >
    > Why would I think of it like that? It's no different to the fibre/cable
    > that Telstra run in Christchurch for their private network.


    Except it has to serve every home--just like the street outside your house.

    >> Is that something that private enterprise could build and run?

    >
    > Yes.


    Would you like to have to pay a toll every time you went down to the
    supermarket?
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Feb 24, 2009
    #18
  19. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    oneofus Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <>, Allistar wrote:
    >
    >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>
    >>> In message <>, Allistar
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Surely replacing the local loop should be up to private companies that
    >>>> make a profit off that local loop?
    >>> Think of the local loop as being like the street outside your house.

    >> Why would I think of it like that? It's no different to the fibre/cable
    >> that Telstra run in Christchurch for their private network.

    >
    > Except it has to serve every home--just like the street outside your house.


    How is it harder for a non government organization to do that ?
    Especially as all government projects are contracted out anyway


    >
    >>> Is that something that private enterprise could build and run?

    >> Yes.

    >
    > Would you like to have to pay a toll every time you went down to the
    > supermarket?
    >


    That would be like GST eh ?
    oneofus, Feb 24, 2009
    #19
  20. On Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:45:33 +1300, EMB <> wrote:

    >David Goodwin wrote:
    >>
    >> As ADSL is the only option that could be made possible, I guess this
    >> week is time to start talking to Telecom.

    >
    >Have a look at the below link (Chorus timeline) and see if your area is
    >already programmed for cabinetisation and loop shortening.
    >
    >http://tinyurl.com/dslupgrade


    There is a bunch of entries for Hillcrest, Hamilton - one of them
    might make a difference to my line. The earliest is planned for
    1/7/2010 though which is more than a year away.
    David Goodwin, Feb 24, 2009
    #20
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