Broadband at Home?

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by ian, May 22, 2007.

  1. ian

    ian Guest

    There is an old BT line to my home here, with the line finishing at a
    junction box outside. I terminated the phone account about 10 years ago.

    I now want to use broadband, so I assume I will have to contact BT to
    install a new line from the junction box to a master socket inside the
    house. However, I don't want a phone account, as the line will only be
    necessary to carry broadband, and I will be using VoIP over the line for
    all phone calls.

    Is this a possible scenario, or will I have to become a BT phone
    subscriber (paying line rental) as well?

    Also, as a previous customer at this location, will I have to pay an
    installation charge?

    Finally, any recommendations for a broadband supplier? Or warnings
    against choosing any particular supplier?

    --
    Ian
     
    ian, May 22, 2007
    #1
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  2. ian

    Jim Howes Guest

    ian wrote:
    > I now want to use broadband, so I assume I will have to contact BT to
    > install a new line from the junction box to a master socket inside the
    > house. However, I don't want a phone account, as the line will only be
    > necessary to carry broadband, and I will be using VoIP over the line for
    > all phone calls.
    >
    > Is this a possible scenario, or will I have to become a BT phone
    > subscriber (paying line rental) as well?


    No, you will still have to pay line rental. This covers the upkeep of the
    cabling between you and the telephone exchange.

    > Also, as a previous customer at this location, will I have to pay an
    > installation charge?


    Probably, as the line will require an engineer visit to connect.

    > Finally, any recommendations for a broadband supplier? Or warnings
    > against choosing any particular supplier?


    Where are you?
     
    Jim Howes, May 22, 2007
    #2
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  3. ian

    Eeyore Guest

    ian wrote:

    > There is an old BT line to my home here, with the line finishing at a
    > junction box outside. I terminated the phone account about 10 years ago.
    >
    > I now want to use broadband, so I assume I will have to contact BT to
    > install a new line from the junction box to a master socket inside the
    > house. However, I don't want a phone account, as the line will only be
    > necessary to carry broadband, and I will be using VoIP over the line for
    > all phone calls.
    >
    > Is this a possible scenario, or will I have to become a BT phone
    > subscriber (paying line rental) as well?


    Yes you will. You are after all renting a line. They don't charge less because
    of the frequencies you want to use it at. A BT line has a heck of a lot better
    voice quality than VoIP too btw and you don't have to pay BT's prices for the
    calls. I can make international calls over the BT copper for about 3p a minute
    btw and most VoIP providers are no cheaper than that. Check out 'carrier
    preselection' and so on.


    > Also, as a previous customer at this location, will I have to pay an
    > installation charge?


    Try negotiating. If you had a BT line 10 or so years back what happeend to the
    wire that came into the house back then ?


    > Finally, any recommendations for a broadband supplier? Or warnings
    > against choosing any particular supplier?


    That depends totally on what your expectations, requirements and budget are. Let
    us know these things. Most of the big ISPs are fairly rubbish/indifferent though
    and all the really shit hot ones seem to be fairly small and relatively unknown
    by the public at large.

    Graham
     
    Eeyore, May 22, 2007
    #3
  4. ian

    John Guest

    "ian" <> wrote in message news:...
    > There is an old BT line to my home here, with the line finishing at a
    > junction box outside. I terminated the phone account about 10 years ago.
    >
    > I now want to use broadband, so I assume I will have to contact BT to
    > install a new line from the junction box to a master socket inside the
    > house. However, I don't want a phone account, as the line will only be
    > necessary to carry broadband, and I will be using VoIP over the line for
    > all phone calls.
    >
    > Is this a possible scenario, or will I have to become a BT phone
    > subscriber (paying line rental) as well?
    >
    > Also, as a previous customer at this location, will I have to pay an
    > installation charge?
    >
    > Finally, any recommendations for a broadband supplier? Or warnings against
    > choosing any particular supplier?
    >
    > --
    > Ian


    I agree with everything that Jim and Eeyore have said. The only thing that I
    can add to the pot is that, after 10 years, you will *definitely* have to
    pay to have a working line re-instated and it's currently around the £125
    mark.

    John.
     
    John, May 22, 2007
    #4
  5. ian

    Paul Hayes Guest

    Eeyore wrote:
    [snip]
    >A BT line has a heck of a lot better voice quality than VoIP too btw

    [snip]

    You obviously aren't using the right VoIP hardware and/or providers then!

    cheers,
    Paul.
     
    Paul Hayes, May 22, 2007
    #5
  6. John wrote:
    >
    > I agree with everything that Jim and Eeyore have said. The only thing
    > that I can add to the pot is that, after 10 years, you will
    > *definitely* have to pay to have a working line re-instated and it's
    > currently around the £125 mark.


    Is 10 years the cut off? BT told me that ours had been disconnected for
    around 10 years when we moved in (previous occupants used Cable).

    Although BT sent an engineer round to reconnect some of the pairs it still
    cost us nowt!

    jon
     
    Jonathan Pearson, May 22, 2007
    #6
  7. ian

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "Eeyore" <> wrote in
    message news:

    [snip]

    > Yes you will. You are after all renting a line. They
    > don't charge less because of the frequencies you want to
    > use it at. A BT line has a heck of a lot better voice
    > quality than VoIP too btw and you don't have to pay BT's
    > prices for the calls. I can make international calls over
    > the BT copper for about 3p a minute btw and most VoIP
    > providers are no cheaper than that. Check out 'carrier
    > preselection' and so on.


    Hmm. Depends on where you want to call, I suppose. I call the US for less
    than 2p/minute and there are cheaper services than that. Quality has
    always been excellent and no different from a BT line.

    Ivor
     
    Ivor Jones, May 22, 2007
    #7
  8. ian

    alexd Guest

    ian wrote:

    > Finally, any recommendations for a broadband supplier? Or warnings
    > against choosing any particular supplier?


    You will find that there are at least as many people who hate an ISP, or
    spread bollocks about them in public forums, as there are broadband
    suppliers.


    Eeyore wrote:

    > That depends totally on what your expectations, requirements and budget
    > are. Let us know these things. Most of the big ISPs are fairly
    > rubbish/indifferent though and all the really shit hot ones seem to be
    > fairly small and relatively unknown by the public at large.


    ....and then get bought up and "indifferentiated" by a larger organisation.
    Although Easynet's support still seem to be fairly clueful
    post-acquisition.

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    18:25:09 up 23 days, 20:25, 2 users, load average: 0.17, 0.31, 0.26
    09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0
     
    alexd, May 22, 2007
    #8
  9. ian

    harrogate3 Guest

    "Jonathan Pearson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > John wrote:
    > >
    > > I agree with everything that Jim and Eeyore have said. The only

    thing
    > > that I can add to the pot is that, after 10 years, you will
    > > *definitely* have to pay to have a working line re-instated and

    it's
    > > currently around the £125 mark.

    >
    > Is 10 years the cut off? BT told me that ours had been disconnected

    for
    > around 10 years when we moved in (previous occupants used Cable).
    >
    > Although BT sent an engineer round to reconnect some of the pairs it

    still
    > cost us nowt!
    >
    > jon
    >
    >
    >


    Ah, you've let it slip. If the previous occupants used cable then you
    too can use cable and with them you <don't> have to have telephone or
    TV. What is more cable is much more reliable IMO than ADSL and is
    generally faster for similar cost.

    If they used cable then unless you had it removed the likelihood is
    that the cable will still be presented to your building so there
    should be little or no installation charge.


    --
    Woody

    harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com
     
    harrogate3, May 22, 2007
    #9
  10. ian

    Jono Guest

    harrogate3 laid this down on his screen :
    > "Jonathan Pearson" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> John wrote:
    >>>
    >>> I agree with everything that Jim and Eeyore have said. The only thing
    >>> that I can add to the pot is that, after 10 years, you will
    >>> *definitely* have to pay to have a working line re-instated and it's
    >>> currently around the £125 mark.

    >>
    >> Is 10 years the cut off? BT told me that ours had been disconnected for
    >> around 10 years when we moved in (previous occupants used Cable).
    >>
    >> Although BT sent an engineer round to reconnect some of the pairs it still
    >> cost us nowt!
    >>
    >> jon
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Ah, you've let it slip. If the previous occupants used cable then you
    > too can use cable and with them you <don't> have to have telephone or
    > TV. What is more cable is much more reliable IMO than ADSL and is
    > generally faster for similar cost.
    >
    > If they used cable then unless you had it removed the likelihood is
    > that the cable will still be presented to your building so there
    > should be little or no installation charge.


    .....erm....except you're not replying to the original question
    asker....
     
    Jono, May 22, 2007
    #10
  11. ian

    Brian A Guest

    On Tue, 22 May 2007 18:18:11 GMT, "harrogate3" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >"Jonathan Pearson" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> John wrote:
    >> >
    >> > I agree with everything that Jim and Eeyore have said. The only

    >thing
    >> > that I can add to the pot is that, after 10 years, you will
    >> > *definitely* have to pay to have a working line re-instated and

    >it's
    >> > currently around the £125 mark.

    >>
    >> Is 10 years the cut off? BT told me that ours had been disconnected

    >for
    >> around 10 years when we moved in (previous occupants used Cable).
    >>
    >> Although BT sent an engineer round to reconnect some of the pairs it

    >still
    >> cost us nowt!
    >>
    >> jon
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Ah, you've let it slip. If the previous occupants used cable then you
    >too can use cable and with them you <don't> have to have telephone or
    >TV. What is more cable is much more reliable IMO than ADSL and is
    >generally faster for similar cost.
    >
    >If they used cable then unless you had it removed the likelihood is
    >that the cable will still be presented to your building so there
    >should be little or no installation charge.

    The cost of cable installation isn't as expensive as BT's installation
    anyway. Yes, if you can go for cable only - no telephone line
    required. You'll only have a choice of one provider of course.
    Voip works well on Telewest area cable.

    Afaik BT reconnect for free unless the disconnection was due to a bill
    not being paid.
    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
     
    Brian A, May 22, 2007
    #11
  12. ian

    GymRatZ Guest

    Paul Hayes wrote:
    > Eeyore wrote:
    > [snip]
    >> A BT line has a heck of a lot better voice quality than VoIP too btw

    > [snip]
    >
    > You obviously aren't using the right VoIP hardware and/or providers then!


    My thoughts exactly.

    There's not much cheaper for International calls than FREE.

    And all (95% at least) of our business incoming calls come via VOIP and
    for the majority you'd never be able to tell the difference.
     
    GymRatZ, May 22, 2007
    #12
  13. ian

    Eeyore Guest

    harrogate3 wrote:

    > Ah, you've let it slip. If the previous occupants used cable then you
    > too can use cable and with them you <don't> have to have telephone or
    > TV. What is more cable is much more reliable IMO than ADSL and is
    > generally faster for similar cost.


    Not my experience at all.

    My ADSL Max connection is provided by Idnet and I normally see downloads (from
    the usual test sites) at between 5-6 Mbps. Reliably, any time of day or week
    etc. Of course a lot of that has to do with Idnet. The connection seems rock
    solid and doesn't go 'iffy' from time to time as most ISPs' offerings seem to.

    Tempted by the attractive pricing (£8.50 for 4Mbps!) I decided to try Virgin's
    cable offering since I already had the cable here. It's currently averaging
    about 1.5Mbps with rare highs close to 4Mbps and regular lows as low as 500kbps
    and will sometimes completely fail to provide any connection at all to some
    sites. It 'feels' congested and it obviously is. It's a good thing it's a trial
    since there's no way I could live with it. I'll be ditching it (even at the
    killer price) before the trial's up. It's fair value but simply not good enough.

    Graham
     
    Eeyore, May 22, 2007
    #13
  14. ian

    Eeyore Guest

    Brian A wrote:

    > Afaik BT reconnect for free unless the disconnection was due to a bill
    > not being paid.


    I'm sure they used to. They do still seem to be runing their 'come back to BT'
    promotion.

    http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayProduct.do;JSESSIONID_ecommerce=GMwJqyxG4gn7Ff7ll9J7LVDZTT94xm0X08SFdMPHhJGS222Xcy6j!-1352813188?productId=CON-16425

    It's only £124.99 if your home has never had a BT line before. So it says here.
    http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayCategory.do?categoryId=CON-NEW-LINE-R1

    Graham
     
    Eeyore, May 22, 2007
    #14
  15. ian

    harrogate3 Guest

    "Eeyore" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > harrogate3 wrote:
    >
    > > Ah, you've let it slip. If the previous occupants used cable then

    you
    > > too can use cable and with them you <don't> have to have telephone

    or
    > > TV. What is more cable is much more reliable IMO than ADSL and is
    > > generally faster for similar cost.

    >
    > Not my experience at all.
    >
    > My ADSL Max connection is provided by Idnet and I normally see

    downloads (from
    > the usual test sites) at between 5-6 Mbps. Reliably, any time of day

    or week
    > etc. Of course a lot of that has to do with Idnet. The connection

    seems rock
    > solid and doesn't go 'iffy' from time to time as most ISPs'

    offerings seem to.
    >
    > Tempted by the attractive pricing (£8.50 for 4Mbps!) I decided to

    try Virgin's
    > cable offering since I already had the cable here. It's currently

    averaging
    > about 1.5Mbps with rare highs close to 4Mbps and regular lows as low

    as 500kbps
    > and will sometimes completely fail to provide any connection at all

    to some
    > sites. It 'feels' congested and it obviously is. It's a good thing

    it's a trial
    > since there's no way I could live with it. I'll be ditching it (even

    at the
    > killer price) before the trial's up. It's fair value but simply not

    good enough.
    >
    > Graham
    >


    I think it very much depends where you live - and if it was an NTL or
    a Telewest area. NTL expanded by taking over many small cable
    companies and it has to be said that the install standards of many of
    those left a lot to be desired.

    Here in Harrogate (along with York and much of Leeds) the original
    work was done by Bell Cablemedia and seems to have been to a high
    standard. I have been on cable now for nearly six years (or is it
    seven?) and in all that time I have only had two noticable outages.
    I'm on a 4Mb feed but if I download in the morning it regularly runs
    nearer 7Mb.

    I would agree however that in the early evening - say 1800-2000 -
    things can get a bit slow, but I suspect that will be the case with
    many ISPs. We have gone from original feeds at 512K to as much as 8 or
    10Mb but no-one has done anything about Contention Ratio. I suppose
    its like digital cameras: the race for pixels is highly visible, so we
    started at 1Mp and are now at 8 or 10Mp on compacts, but in many cases
    the lens is now not up to the job; similarly for CR - the basic
    infrastructure in the earlier days could handle many users at 512K and
    give them good feed at a CR of 50:1, but now the line speeds have
    exceeded the basic capability of the infrastructure. Hence at most
    times of day with low loading domestic users will realise the benefit
    of the higher speed line, but get to a congested time in early evening
    and congestion becomes a serious problem.

    I once had the advantage of an uncontended 1Mb feed direct onto one PC
    and it was like lightning: when other users cam on the same feed it
    could be horrendously slow.


    --
    Woody

    harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com
     
    harrogate3, May 23, 2007
    #15
  16. ian

    ian Guest

    In message <>, ian <> writes
    >There is an old BT line to my home here, with the line finishing at a
    >junction box outside. I terminated the phone account about 10 years ago.
    >
    >I now want to use broadband, so I assume I will have to contact BT to
    >install a new line from the junction box to a master socket inside the
    >house. However, I don't want a phone account, as the line will only be
    >necessary to carry broadband, and I will be using VoIP over the line
    >for all phone calls.
    >
    >Is this a possible scenario, or will I have to become a BT phone
    >subscriber (paying line rental) as well?
    >
    >Also, as a previous customer at this location, will I have to pay an
    >installation charge?
    >
    >Finally, any recommendations for a broadband supplier? Or warnings
    >against choosing any particular supplier?
    >


    Thanks everyone for the responses. Most of them were as expected (except
    for the comments about VoIP quality not being very good and being
    comparatively expensive -- this is quite the opposite of my experience).

    --
    Ian
     
    ian, May 23, 2007
    #16
  17. ian

    Eeyore Guest

    ian wrote:

    > Thanks everyone for the responses. Most of them were as expected (except
    > for the comments about VoIP quality not being very good


    Oh come on. It can sound like talking through a tube. Correction, it usually
    does sound like talking through a tube ! Certainly true of Skype and the other
    VoIP providers I experimented with in the distant plast.


    > and being comparatively expensive -- this is quite the opposite of my
    > experience).


    How much do you pay for VoIP ?

    Graham
     
    Eeyore, May 23, 2007
    #17
  18. In article <>,
    Eeyore <> writes:
    >
    >
    > ian wrote:
    >
    >> Thanks everyone for the responses. Most of them were as expected (except
    >> for the comments about VoIP quality not being very good

    >
    > Oh come on. It can sound like talking through a tube. Correction, it usually
    > does sound like talking through a tube ! Certainly true of Skype and the other
    > VoIP providers I experimented with in the distant plast.


    I've always found VoIP to be significantly better quality than
    calling over the phone system. Skype is quite different from
    the VoIP standards -- don't get them mixed up.

    --
    Andrew Gabriel
    [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
     
    Andrew Gabriel, May 23, 2007
    #18
  19. ian

    Eeyore Guest

    Andrew Gabriel wrote:

    > Eeyore <> writes:
    > > ian wrote:
    > >
    > >> Thanks everyone for the responses. Most of them were as expected (except
    > >> for the comments about VoIP quality not being very good

    > >
    > > Oh come on. It can sound like talking through a tube. Correction, it usually
    > > does sound like talking through a tube ! Certainly true of Skype and the other
    > > VoIP providers I experimented with in the distant plast.

    >
    > I've always found VoIP to be significantly better quality than
    > calling over the phone system.


    What brand phone do you use ? I've found huge differences there. Nothing can beat
    BT's phone in my experience to ensure a clear call.


    > Skype is quite different from the VoIP standards -- don't get them mixed up.


    I've also heard what I took to be corporate VoIP connections that were simply
    shockingly bad. They sounded like they'd gone through an echoey distortion box and
    often cut out for seconds at a time.

    Graham
     
    Eeyore, May 23, 2007
    #19
  20. ian

    ian Guest

    In message <>, Eeyore
    <> writes
    >
    >
    >ian wrote:
    >
    >> Thanks everyone for the responses. Most of them were as expected (except
    >> for the comments about VoIP quality not being very good

    >
    >Oh come on. It can sound like talking through a tube. Correction, it usually
    >does sound like talking through a tube ! Certainly true of Skype and the other
    >VoIP providers I experimented with in the distant plast.


    I find the speech quality on Skype is excellent. Re the other VoIP
    providers, you may be right about the distant past. But today the major
    players offer a very good service, with very good to excellent speech
    quality.


    >> and being comparatively expensive -- this is quite the opposite of my
    >> experience).

    >
    >How much do you pay for VoIP ?


    I use Voipfone (www.voipfone.co.uk). Depending on whom I call, the cost
    varies from zero to typically 1.2p per minute. Many of my calls are
    VoIP-to-VoIP, where the cost is zero. Also, with VoIP, there is no call
    setup cost (as I recall this is 5.5p per call on BT!). Voipfone and
    others also offer dozens of other phone services (like Centrex) that
    POTS doesn't.

    --
    Ian
     
    ian, May 24, 2007
    #20
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